New Sun Princess (Not My Princess)!?!?!

[Guest ldtr]

10 hours ago, Nunagoras said:

According to some easily accessing web sources the Sun is on the 5,000 ish segment. Size to do so is there! Now: AIDA is currently German mainstream. P&O has became UK mainstream, and Carnival is US mainstream lines. OK with huge crowds out there, but Princess is coming from the above segment, or say upper mainstream or Premium segment. Want a Premium ship at premium prices with baseline crowds, terms and conditions? Good luck. That will please no one, unless P&O became 3 starish in Europe and they would need a 4 starish classical style cruise line here, then yes, it would to succeed out of the demise of Costa and the more demanding European crowd, but seriously that is far out of question. So, that will generally to please nor the mainstream folks unable to pay upfront to go premium, nor the Premium folks whom wish to escape the baseline crowds! Hope the 4,000 ish numbers to be true, at very least!...

Listed as 4300 at 100% occupancy.  Of course prior to Covid Occupancy tended to average over 105% so that would put passenger load on most cruises to be around 4600 passengers.   However since the ship is still under construction I would take that information with a grain of salt. With the Royal Class we did see the number change prior to first cruise.

 

The Carnival Mardi Gras which is the same platform has 100% occupancy at 5,282 and max capacity at 6,465.  The P&O  Iona which is also on the same platform has an occupancy of 5,206.

 

Would be surprised if Princess with the same starting platform comes in at 900 passenger lower capacity.  For that to be true the fare cost would need to be substantially higher than for the CCL or P&O ships.  Which is different than what exists today in general.  For example I am on the P&O Iona in October.  The cost is about 30% more per day per person than the cruise I am on in the same area on Princess for similar cabins.

 

Princess along with Celebrity and HAL are pretty much adult focused main stream lines, where as RCL, CCL, and NCL tend to  be more family oriented main stream lines. All of which have similar pricing models. Non-inclusive, with the option to pay for fare with included packages.  They all count on getting 25 to 30% of revenue from on board sales.  On many cruises Princess is actually cheaper than CCL, RCL or NCL  Add in the various options for OBC and Princess can easily be the least expensive.

Edited December 23, 2022 by ldtr

[memoak]

Spare me from rope courses, zip lines etc   I cruise to be on a cruise ship not an amusement park

[Jeter02]

7 hours ago, caribill said:

 

As an example, Princess used to have an itinerary that included cruising up the Amazon river to Manaus. No matter what the Captains say, there will be no dredging of the Amazon River to make it deeper to allow the large ships to go there.

 

As another example, the Falkland Islands has a total population of about 3700 people. How much does the population need to grow to accommodate cruise ships with more passengers than the current population?

 

And one more--- Notice that no Princess cruise ship stops at Venice anymore.

 

 

Venice With sadly getting destroyed by all the abundance of tourists coming in, same kind of issue also in a sense with Capri when cruise ships stuck a lot of them keep the grounds unclean and litter all over the place which is so sad.

Falkland islands is great example as well. Beautiful destination.

[Jeter02]

6 minutes ago, memoak said:

Spare me from rope courses, zip lines etc   I cruise to be on a cruise ship not an amusement park

YES!!!!!!! 🙌

[CruizinSusan70]

9 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Princess has chosen to do the pivoting.

 

The company is saying they do not want the many passengers who had chosen Princess because of the itineraries.

 

So if I want to be on a large capacity ship whose 7 day itineraries include overcrowded ports St Thomas and St. Maarten and also a private Island (or similar type itineraries elsewhere in the world), I have my pick of competing cruise lines and do not have to be loyal to any one of them.

The entire fleet of Princess is not changing.  They are adding two new Sphere Class ships in 2024 and 2025. They will appeal to cruisers that like the new, larger size ship on other cruise lines, but with less passengers and a slightly upgraded experience compared to Carnival, RCI, & MSC.   The older, smaller ships in the fleet will still be around for those that prefer Princess before the Royal Class came out and those that prefer a ship with a more modern feel with some extra bells and whistles will have the Royal and Sphere Classes to choose from.

Just because the Sphere Class is coming out, loyal Princess cruisers should not be upset, they should be happy because the addition of the newer classes should bring new cruisers to the line and thus more profits for the corporation, which is good for all.

Edited December 24, 2022 by CruizinSusan70

[CruizinSusan70]

7 hours ago, c-boy said:

something tells me your either an architect or interior designer .... 😄

Neither.  Retired.  Currently like to cruise on the newest ships on various lines.  In 2022 we were on the Celebrity Apex for 12, Mardi Gras for 28, Discovery Princess for 14, NCL Prima for 11 and sailed on the Oasis Class for 12 for the first time.

[CruizinSusan70]

4 hours ago, memoak said:

Spare me from rope courses, zip lines etc   I cruise to be on a cruise ship not an amusement park

Then think about the 15 current ships in the fleet that don't have those things, not the next two builds that will. 

[memoak]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Then think about the 15 current ships in the fleet that don't have those things, not the next two builds that will. 

Thank god I still have real ships to cruise on

[CruizinSusan70]

14 minutes ago, memoak said:

Thank god I still have real ships to cruise on

Obviously the bean counters at Princess and Carnival Corporation disagree with you, otherwise the Sphere Class would not be coming into existence.

Cruise lines evolve and obviously not all cruisers do.

[caribill]

2 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

The older, smaller ships in the fleet will still be around for those that prefer Princess before the Royal Class came out

 

If only it was true that the smaller ships in the fleet will still be around.

 

Since the Royal Princess (lower berth capacity 3560) debuted these smaller ships in the fleet left and thus are no longer around:

Ocean Princess (lower berth capacity 680)

Pacific Princess (lower berth capacity 680)

Dawn Princess (lower berth capacity 1990)

Sea Princess (lower berth capacity 1990)

former Sun Princess (lower berth capacity 2000)

Star Princess (lower berth capacity  2590)

Golden Princess (lower berth capacity 2590)

 

Only 4 ships with less than 3000 lower berth capacity remain in the Princess fleet. None with less than 2000 lower berth capacity.

[dog]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

If only it was true that the smaller ships in the fleet will still be around.

 

Since the Royal Princess (lower berth capacity 3560) debuted these smaller ships in the fleet left and thus are no longer around:

Ocean Princess (lower berth capacity 680)

Pacific Princess (lower berth capacity 680)

Dawn Princess (lower berth capacity 1990)

Sea Princess (lower berth capacity 1990)

former Sun Princess (lower berth capacity 2000)

Star Princess (lower berth capacity  2590)

Golden Princess (lower berth capacity 2590)

 

Only 4 ships with less than 3000 lower berth capacity remain in the Princess fleet. None with less than 2000 lower berth capacity.

I enjoyed these ships too.

 

Every time I scroll through this thread and realize how large the new ships are becoming that COSTA ship that sank off the coast of Italy, a few years back comes to mind.

I cannot imagine an emergency on a ship with 4300 passengers,  plus crew, wheelchairs, scooters, aging population, being handled very well.

 

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to all!

 

[devonuk]

The thing with Princesses is that you just don’t know what you’re going to get 😗😇

[CruizinSusan70]

6 hours ago, caribill said:

 

If only it was true that the smaller ships in the fleet will still be around.

 

Since the Royal Princess (lower berth capacity 3560) debuted these smaller ships in the fleet left and thus are no longer around:

Ocean Princess (lower berth capacity 680)

Pacific Princess (lower berth capacity 680)

Dawn Princess (lower berth capacity 1990)

Sea Princess (lower berth capacity 1990)

former Sun Princess (lower berth capacity 2000)

Star Princess (lower berth capacity  2590)

Golden Princess (lower berth capacity 2590)

 

Only 4 ships with less than 3000 lower berth capacity remain in the Princess fleet. None with less than 2000 lower berth capacity.

Carnival Corporation is selling off another three.  Two Costa ships and an unnamed third.  Speculation is that the third could be one of the two remaining Fantasy Class ships from Carnival.

The older less efficient ships are falling by the wayside since they need to chip away at the billions in debt because of the pandemic.  

Those that yearn for the smaller ships are going to have to enjoy the few that are still around and eventually pivot to another line.

[Nunagoras]

19 hours ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

We have spent 28 days on the Carnival Mardi Gras with up to 6000 other cruisers and we thoroughly enjoyed ourselves in 2022.  Currently have 34 days booked on it's sister ship the Celebration in 2023 & 2024 and as soon as bookings open up for the fall/winter 2024/2025 Caribbean season, we'll be booked on a 20 day sailing on the Sun and looking forward to the nuances that will make it different from the two Excel class ships from Carnival.

It's pretty much easy to understand: At current CCL fares; I would tolerate 6k guests around me, BUT, at current Princess fares I wouldn't tolerate 5k guests around me! And I wouldn't be alone nor on these boards, nor largely on the cruise community! What's the part that, both the Carnival Group's "fat cats" and many here can't understand? If I want mainstream I know where to go. If I want Premium, me thinks, I should to know where to go!... Oh, well: Unless Carnival Group's thinks there is a market niche for a classical baseline mainstream ship with a premium(ish) flavor on top. Good luck!... Have a wonderful Christmas!...

[Nunagoras]

15 hours ago, ldtr said:

Listed as 4300 at 100% occupancy.  Of course prior to Covid Occupancy tended to average over 105% so that would put passenger load on most cruises to be around 4600 passengers.   However since the ship is still under construction I would take that information with a grain of salt. With the Royal Class we did see the number change prior to first cruise.

 

The Carnival Mardi Gras which is the same platform has 100% occupancy at 5,282 and max capacity at 6,465.  The P&O  Iona which is also on the same platform has an occupancy of 5,206.

 

Would be surprised if Princess with the same starting platform comes in at 900 passenger lower capacity.  For that to be true the fare cost would need to be substantially higher than for the CCL or P&O ships.  Which is different than what exists today in general.  For example I am on the P&O Iona in October.  The cost is about 30% more per day per person than the cruise I am on in the same area on Princess for similar cabins.

 

Princess along with Celebrity and HAL are pretty much adult focused main stream lines, where as RCL, CCL, and NCL tend to  be more family oriented main stream lines. All of which have similar pricing models. Non-inclusive, with the option to pay for fare with included packages.  They all count on getting 25 to 30% of revenue from on board sales.  On many cruises Princess is actually cheaper than CCL, RCL or NCL  Add in the various options for OBC and Princess can easily be the least expensive.

Many thanks to your view which I can subscribe. If that is the case, so well: Go for it at the 5k ish passengers. Now: If the prices are to be what I mostly see from where I live, without the incentives "everyone" might to capture to go with, then 5k ish is an ABUSE to even come across. Princess and X used to be slightly above the mainstream lines for a reason. Removing that reason removes why the usual price differentiation. I'd never to pay more to have a "similar" experience on a premium line if I have a cheaper one at the next door. Have a wonderful Christmas!...

[dog]

14 minutes ago, Nunagoras said:

Many thanks to your view which I can subscribe. If that is the case, so well: Go for it at the 5k ish passengers. Now: If the prices are to be what I mostly see from where I live, without the incentives "everyone" might to capture to go with, then 5k ish is an ABUSE to even come across. Princess and X used to be slightly above the mainstream lines for a reason. Removing that reason removes why the usual price differentiation. I'd never to pay more to have a "similar" experience on a premium line if I have a cheaper one at the next door. Have a wonderful Christmas!...

I cannot understand your posts.

Are you for or against Princess cruises?

 

The new Sun Princess has a capacity of 4,300 passengers.  Plus crew.

[Nunagoras]

1 minute ago, dog said:

I cannot understand your posts.

Are you for or against Princess cruises?

 

The new Sun Princess has a capacity of 4,300 passengers.  Plus crew.

In favor of Princess. Trending to against the Sun Princess concept; unless done well!... I can to see a niche market for such a ship like this, if they turned it full adult cruising at a point. It would capture some from the mainstream ready to pay a little bit more to have a little bit more on a calm and fashionable way. I can't to see market for such a ship if it is to do roughly what CCL, P&O or Costa are doing. For that they have those trademarks...

[CruizinSusan70]

5 minutes ago, dog said:

I cannot understand your posts.

Are you for or against Princess cruises?

 

The new Sun Princess has a capacity of 4,300 passengers.  Plus crew.

Don't know either.  He or she cruises primarily on MSC and occasionally on RCI.  Doesn't have a horse in this race regarding the marketing of the Sphere Class ships.

[Nunagoras]

14 minutes ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

Don't know either.  He or she cruises primarily on MSC and occasionally on RCI.  Doesn't have a horse in this race regarding the marketing of the Sphere Class ships.

Ok, I know; I'm new on this board. Yeah, I'm a guy, retired from the financial industry. Been a market analyst back in the day. Cruise primarily on MSC and occasionally on RCI as I said. Been for professional reason's inside pretty much every other line's ships here in Lisbon back in the day, oh, well, before the pandemic, once I retired at its beginning. TBHH: If there is a thing I know that for sure is market segmentation. I'm content enough with what my cruising segment used to offer. No need for more on me. So now there is this cruising mix?... Good luck to them trying to offer on a bigger ship what should have been offered on a smaller one! No place for same quality at different sizes!...

[CruizinSusan70]

3 hours ago, Nunagoras said:

Ok, I know; I'm new on this board. Yeah, I'm a guy, retired from the financial industry. Been a market analyst back in the day. Cruise primarily on MSC and occasionally on RCI as I said. Been for professional reason's inside pretty much every other line's ships here in Lisbon back in the day, oh, well, before the pandemic, once I retired at its beginning. TBHH: If there is a thing I know that for sure is market segmentation. I'm content enough with what my cruising segment used to offer. No need for more on me. So now there is this cruising mix?... Good luck to them trying to offer on a bigger ship what should have been offered on a smaller one! No place for same quality at different sizes!...

You live across the pond.  P&O, Costa, & AIDA are the Carnival Corporation divisions that are in Europe.  Carnival usually has a single obligatory ship there and Princess has about 6 ships there over the course of a year.

With the Sun Princess starting in Europe you are implying that the upscale experience can't be done on a larger ship.  You stated "No place for same quality at different sizes."   It seems like the Sun is starting to take a page from other cruise lines with the ship within a ship concept.  Celebrity has it with the Retreat, RCI has it with the Star Class, NCL has it with the Haven and your cruise line of choice MSC has it with the Yacht Club.   With the exception of Celebrity, the other 3 lines are doing it with comparable or even larger ships compared to the Sun.

It's all speculation at this point, but there will be a market for the Sun and it's unnamed sister coming out in 2025. 

[memoak]

4 hours ago, dog said:

I cannot understand your posts.

Are you for or against Princess cruises?

 

The new Sun Princess has a capacity of 4,300 passengers.  Plus crew.

That capacity of 4,300 is for lower bunks only and does not count extra bunks and sofa sleepers in mini suites. Many family’s cram 4 people into a cabin that has drop down bunks

[caribill]

4 hours ago, dog said:

The new Sun Princess has a capacity of 4,300 passengers.  Plus crew.

 

The 4300 is lower berth capacity.

 

When 3rd and 4th berths in a cabin are included, the actual passenger count is higher.

[dog]

35 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

The 4300 is lower berth capacity.

 

When 3rd and 4th berths in a cabin are included, the actual passenger count is higher.

From their website.  Not debating 

[caribill]

29 minutes ago, dog said:

From their website.

 

Correct. For all the Princess ships the web site shows lower berth capacity which is number of cabins x2.

 

This is why you will often see that ships are sailing at 105% (or similar) capacity as some of the 3rd and 4th berths are occupied.

 

So far I have been unable to locate the number of 3rd and 4th berths on this ship.

[Guest ldtr]

6 hours ago, Nunagoras said:

Many thanks to your view which I can subscribe. If that is the case, so well: Go for it at the 5k ish passengers. Now: If the prices are to be what I mostly see from where I live, without the incentives "everyone" might to capture to go with, then 5k ish is an ABUSE to even come across. Princess and X used to be slightly above the mainstream lines for a reason. Removing that reason removes why the usual price differentiation. I'd never to pay more to have a "similar" experience on a premium line if I have a cheaper one at the next door. Have a wonderful Christmas!...

Princess is not a premium line.  It is an adult focused mass market, same as Celebrity and HAL. It is certainly the lowest priced of those three adult focused lines.

 

Oceania, Viking, Azamara are premium lines with the corresponding price differential. As well as a different pricing model.

 

I actually sail for less on Princess, than it would cost me to do a similar cruise on RCL, NCL and CCL.  It is one of the reasons that the 95 cruise days I have booked this year is on Princess. (I do sail on several different lines)  Largely because the Princess OBC offerings are much larger.  For example of a 15 day Hawaiian cruise that we just got off of we had a total of $900 OBC. That resulted in the total cost of the cruise being substantially less then the exact same cruise in the same cabin type on CCL. The fare itself was pretty close, so the OBC was a major differentiator. Princess does tend to have longer average cruise length than Celebrity, but shorter than HAL.

 

There are two differences between Princess and RCL, CCL and NCL and fares are really not one of them.  

The 2 differences is that Princess, like Celebrity is adult focused, and Princess tends to longer average cruise length with more varied itineraries.  The family focused lines tend to average shorter to fit the family focus.

 

If one looks at the total price including OBC options, onboard costs, etc. there is really not a difference in cost of cruising at two people per cabin, per day.  Hal and Celebrity tend to run a little higher than Princess.  NCL, RCL and CCL come in pretty close these days if you look at similar routes.  P&O tends to also come in a bit higher on similar routes.  

 

Princess is also tending to have the oldest average age of any of the mainstream lines. It has gotten older than even HAL which along with Celebrity has been focused on trying to attract a younger demographic.