Do you Feel X is Cheapening their Product

[rjrpar]

On 1/13/2023 at 4:57 AM, talljules1 said:

Yes, I very much think they're cheapening their product. It has been happening for a while, and now is accelerating. A death by a thousand cuts, it is lots of little things which individually don't really matter, but which in total become irritating. X used to pride itself on 'modern luxury'. Well, it's not that now.

 

In recent years we've moved to the sweet suite life. But with current pricing, X are pricing themselves out of the market. There's now little difference in price between X and more premium lines, so it is likely in coming years that we will be looking much more seriously at Azamara, Oceania, Silverseas etc. Because if paying that much, and these other lines, with better itineraries, are an option, why stick with X? We get the impression that X are not loyal to their customers, regardless of the loyalty of the customer.

Yes I do.  Just read this thread and you’ll hear about many cutbacks. X is no longer the top tier of “Premium”

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, newtocruiseinblue said:

The added recent cuts don't affect us as we... would prefer to eat in the mdr for dinner

If you eat in the mdr for dinner, you are absolutely affected by the recent cuts.

[NevadaCruiser2023]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:08 AM, kearney said:

The cruise lines did not sail for well over a year..but had to keep ships moving incurring costs for limited crew, upkeep, some port charges etc. Then supply chain issues impacted supplies and quality of supplies (eg liquor) .. and higher energy costs (although some long term contracts may have helped)... and add to that recent increases in inflation due, in part, to the war in Ukraine ...make running a business difficult and impacting decisions on pricing and product features. I understand the balance they are trying to keep. Unfortunately these same issues impact my personal economics..but I can't raise revenue so I have to focus on the cost aspect.. and this means fewer cruises... and more likely to go with 'cruise only' fares and off season sailing... eg back to hurricane season... Sept-Oct cruises... which can be exciting...

All valid, but and this is an important but.  If you raise the prices for everything, while at the same time lowering the quality of services offered, it's a zero sum game. You may increase your bottom line in the short term, but you're not going to gain loyalty in the long term.  Some of these cruisers can spend 10's of thousands on a single short cruise and may feel shortchanged by the changes happening.  In that case, they'll take that money to a cruise line that still offers what they perceive as value.  They may end up in, say, a smaller cabin with those cruise dollars on another line, but they'll get the experience they seek (sought?) on Celebrity. Creating Shareholder value isn't just bringing more money to the bottom line, it's protecting the brand. 

[newtocruiseinblue]

38 minutes ago, RichYak said:

If you eat in the mdr for dinner, you are absolutely affected by the recent cuts

I just checked my menus on the app for my cruise and they're great. Maybe the European cruises will be different than the Caribbean market. 

[newtocruiseinblue]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Report back to us after you try the new reduced MDR menus and OVC that happened after the first of the year.

 

Reporting on how cruises were before the cuts I would have to agree.

Will do. I've been reading these boards for five years and about 40% of what I read on here is true and only about 5% has ever affected my trips. I cruise for the ports and to see other countries, the good food is a bonus for me.
 

A few years ago, when I was going on a trip that began in Barcelona, I would check the weather app for the forecast.  On the first full day that we had to sightsee in the city before our cruise, there was a thunderstorm cloud. I quietly stressed about that thundercloud for a week before my arrival. When the day arrived, it was a gorgeous day, we had a full day of sightseeing. At the end of the day, we were laying in bed, the balcony door was cracked and the most soothing sound of rain began falling. That was the thunderstorm. Moral of the story: don't stress about the thunderstorm and learn to dance in the rain. 

[Myrtle Ave. Mayhem]

This is even happening on the upper premium lines like Viking. I noticed definite cutbacks in food, service, & entertainment aboard my Viking Neptune trans-Atlantic in December. Perhaps not to the extent of Celebrity, Princess, HAL - but still noticeable. My first time in seven Viking cruises stepping off feeling underwhelmed & slightly disappointed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

On 1/12/2023 at 5:07 PM, D C said:

The first thing they should do is cancel or delay new builds.  Especially X where a lot of people don't like them. Don't take out a loan for a new car when the old one is better. 

 

I really don't know, is the E-Class NOT booking well?  It seems only non-suite guests don't like them as suite guests receive a traditional balcony, the best retreat experience and avoids Blu and the 4 MDRs.  I can't wait to hear about what the next class ships will be like and cross my fingers that they won't make a 6th E-Class ship

[NevadaCruiser2023]

14 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I really don't know, is the E-Class NOT booking well?  It seems only non-suite guests don't like them as suite guests receive a traditional balcony, the best retreat experience and avoids Blu and the 4 MDRs.  I can't wait to hear about what the next class ships will be like and cross my fingers that they won't make a 6th E-Class ship

I think the next class of ships will be the "F" class, to truly represent what they seem to be saying. 

[Baron Barracuda]

Trying to understand the business logic.  For 1 1/2 years since re-start despite the cruise lines hemorrhaging cash, ships sailing 1/2 full and supply chain difficulties X strove to offer the same level of service they provided pre-covid.  Now, with ships sailing full and parent RCG cash flow positive and actually turning a small profit X has elected to take an axe to food which is very important to customers but only represents 7% of expenses.   Meanwhile they give away hundreds if not thousands of free verandahs through Blue Chip Club offers.  The latest email I received was good on 70 sailings, 20 of them for 10 nights or longer.   If the issue (alibi?) is reducing food waste wasn't OVC much more wasteful back when ships were at reduced capacity?  For the past year X arguably didn't have to work very hard for bookings thanks to a large pool of outstanding FCC's.  Now, with the FCC's exhausted X will have to compete hard for the public's cruising $.  Why then devalue the X product?  

[AnnaNicole]

15 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Trying to understand the business logic.  For 1 1/2 years since re-start despite the cruise lines hemorrhaging cash, ships sailing 1/2 full and supply chain difficulties X strove to offer the same level of service they provided pre-covid.  Now, with ships sailing full and parent RCG cash flow positive and actually turning a small profit X has elected to take an axe to food which is very important to customers but only represents 7% of expenses.   Meanwhile they give away hundreds if not thousands of free verandahs through Blue Chip Club offers.  The latest email I received was good on 70 sailings, 20 of them for 10 nights or longer.   If the issue (alibi?) is reducing food waste wasn't OVC much more wasteful back when ships were at reduced capacity?  For the past year X arguably didn't have to work very hard for bookings thanks to a large pool of outstanding FCC's.  Now, with the FCC's exhausted X will have to compete hard for the public's cruising $.  Why then devalue the X product?  

I received several more BCC offers and I did not book them.    Airfare, hotel, drink packages, taxis, etc add up to quite a bit and I no longer see the value with all of the cuts.   I hope Celebrity puts the brakes on the new changes since January.

 

 

Edited January 19, 2023 by AnnaNicole

[NMTraveller]

The onship experiences keep on getting worse and worse.

[SJ1_]

I see a lot of little cuts and I am hearing about more to come.  Right after covid there were no cuts.

I think the problem is they cannot get the price point they want so they have to cut.

We booked a 1/23 cruise on our  6/22 and ended up paying under 50% of that price by rebooking and they are sailing still has a lot of empty cabins.  that is a lot of expected $$$ gone.  I remember Celebrity saying they expected to be back to normal by a certain date ( 1/2023 ?) and I get the impression this never happened.

Just my view

 

[SJ1_]

1 hour ago, AnnaNicole said:

I received several more BCC offers and I did not book them.    Airfare, hotel, drink packages, taxis, etc add up to quite a bit and I no longer see the value with all of the cuts.   I hope Celebrity puts the brakes on the new changes since January.

 

 

I never got Blue Chip offers before COVID.   Now they keep coming.   I'm assuming these are all cabins that would of been empty.  On our Dec 2022 cruise they had a number of empty suites that were given to different departments.   For instance, if you booked an excursion thru Celebrity you were put in a drawing for a free upgrade to a suite.  In the Casino they had some sort of competition for a fee upgrade to a suite.  The last day of the cruise I asked the Casino host how business was and she said on the next cruise she had 2 suites to give away.  not good  that is A LOT of lost $$$ 

[RichYak]

17 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Trying to understand the business logic....   Meanwhile they give away hundreds if not thousands of free verandahs through Blue Chip Club offers. 

Much of DR and stateroom staff's pay is through gratuities. Bring people on board to keep them paid and happy. Keep rooms empty and they're underworked and underpaid. Adjusting staff count on cruise ships isn't easy.

 

Also, there's very little increase to fixed costs giving free rooms to BCC members. Most of whatever they might spend on board is gravy.

 

Finally, Celebrity doesn't have to publicly lower prices to fill rooms, which they seem loathe to do. Bargain fares hurt the brand image.

[maxsales]

Absolutely yes!  The recent cutbacks cheapen the Celebrity product.

[maxsales]

On 1/7/2023 at 9:32 AM, phoenix_dream said:

Sail on an S or M class ship, especially one not yet revolutionized and then report back again.  IMHO E class ships have been getting the best of everything since they were introduced.  They hand picked the best staff (not that I don't love ALL the X staff), I can't prove it but it feels to me that the staff to passenger ratio is a bit higher (at least at this time), they send all the best live entertainment there, they developed fabulous new shows while the shows on M and S class have been the same for a decade or more, they of course are all new so are in fabulous shape while revolutionizing of other ships have been put on hold, and the list goes on.

 

Does this mean I don't love Celebrity?  In fact I do and have been loyal for years.  But having sailed all classes, including many since re-start, I can tell you that the experience on E class is not the same as on the other classes.

Can't agree.  The staff on the edge on our recently completed Trans Atlantic was the worst ever.

Example for different bar servers did not know "on the rocks" meant a drink on ice.  Really?  Who trained these people.  A number of bar staff didn't know how to make a Manhattan.  Come on man.

 

In contrast our recently completed sailing on the Constellation (December 12, 2022) the entire  crew was on point, some of the best service we have every had on thirty plus celebrity cruises.

[NutsAboutGolf]

3 minutes ago, maxsales said:

Can't agree.  The staff on the edge on our recently completed Trans Atlantic was the worst ever.

Example for different bar servers did not know "on the rocks" meant a drink on ice.  Really?  Who trained these people.  A number of bar staff didn't know how to make a Manhattan.  Come on man.

 

In contrast our recently completed sailing on the Constellation (December 12, 2022) the entire  crew was on point, some of the best service we have every had on thirty plus celebrity cruises.

 

That would only be a minor inconvenience to me, I'd much rather have them ask me how to make it then for them to guess.  I hold a lot of weight if they're positive/pleasant

[NevadaCruiser2023]

7 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

That would only be a minor inconvenience to me, I'd much rather have them ask me how to make it then for them to guess.  I hold a lot of weight if they're positive/pleasant

Except, if you put someone behind the bar, they should know at least the bare minimum about the job. Ordering a drink on the rocks and getting a blank look wouldn't fill me with confidence that the drink will be correct. Come on, man! it's not hard to run someone through a quick hit the basics power point slide show. 

[Baron Barracuda]

4 hours ago, RichYak said:

Much of DR and stateroom staff's pay is through gratuities. Bring people on board to keep them paid and happy. Keep rooms empty and they're underworked and underpaid. Adjusting staff count on cruise ships isn't easy.

 

Also, there's very little increase to fixed costs giving free rooms to BCC members. Most of whatever they might spend on board is gravy.

 

Finally, Celebrity doesn't have to publicly lower prices to fill rooms, which they seem loathe to do. Bargain fares hurt the brand image.

So giving cabins away for free is better than quietly offloading them to a consolidator?  Grats may help the crew, but personnel is only 10% of total expenses.  Free cabins don't help cover the other 90%.  And IMO the brand image is much more driven by the cruising experience X offers, especially food and service, than the price they charge for their product.  Who is going to avoid X because the price is too cheap?

[kguerriero]

8 hours ago, Baron Barracuda said:

So giving cabins away for free is better than quietly offloading them to a consolidator?

 

Speaking from experience in the industry...

 

Consolidator = value-minded vacationers. They'll use comp services and not much else. All it takes is one publicized deal of "Celebrity is offering cabins at $86/night!" for everyone else to hold out for a similar price on future cruises. Not to mention the hell they'll get from TAs.

 

BCC = Gamblers who understand how their bread is buttered. Will spend hundreds, if not thousands, in the casino, which is essentially a black hole into the bottom line. One win and they're tipping, premium dining, duty free shopping, not to mention buying beverage packages and Moving Up.

 

I'm sure Celebrity pulls total yield from these cabins and is able to determine BCC is, on average all-in at $XXXX, which covers fare and then some, or else they wouldn't be offering. 

Edited January 20, 2023 by kguerriero

[Baron Barracuda]

12 hours ago, kguerriero said:

 

Speaking from experience in the industry...

 

Consolidator = value-minded vacationers. They'll use comp services and not much else. All it takes is one publicized deal of "Celebrity is offering cabins at $86/night!" for everyone else to hold out for a similar price on future cruises. Not to mention the hell they'll get from TAs.

 

BCC = Gamblers who understand how their bread is buttered. Will spend hundreds, if not thousands, in the casino, which is essentially a black hole into the bottom line. One win and they're tipping, premium dining, duty free shopping, not to mention buying beverage packages and Moving Up.

 

I'm sure Celebrity pulls total yield from these cabins and is able to determine BCC is, on average all-in at $XXXX, which covers fare and then some, or else they wouldn't be offering. 

If X was targeting high rollers I would 100% agree with you but that doesn't seem to be the case.  Read through the cc threads on BCC offers and you'll see many (most?) being offered free cabins are not heavy gamblers.  The offer comes with no obligation to even enter the casino while on board.  My wife and I who rarely gamble receive free verandah offers all the time. 

 

Regarding consolidators, cruise lines have always relied on them to sell those last few cabins.  How do you think pre-covid pretty much every ship managed to sail full?  X doesn't allow TA's to advertise fares lower than what is displayed  on their web site but large TA's are always advertising last minute deals where you have to call to get the price.  $86/night is better than $0 and maybe those value seeking customers will still gamble a little and spend some money while on board.

 

 

[Arizona Wildcat]

On 1/18/2023 at 9:43 AM, NevadaCruiser2023 said:

All valid, but and this is an important but.  If you raise the prices for everything, while at the same time lowering the quality of services offered, it's a zero sum game. You may increase your bottom line in the short term, but you're not going to gain loyalty in the long term.  Some of these cruisers can spend 10's of thousands on a single short cruise and may feel shortchanged by the changes happening.  In that case, they'll take that money to a cruise line that still offers what they perceive as value.  They may end up in, say, a smaller cabin with those cruise dollars on another line, but they'll get the experience they seek (sought?) on Celebrity. Creating Shareholder value isn't just bringing more money to the bottom line, it's protecting the brand. 

Where do you find a different cruisrline that offers value as defined as pre covid price and services.  Lots of demand for cruises.  Thus prices are still high.  Cuts on mainstream product are in total similar for all companies.   Upscale like Regent have simply raised prices.

The question is not what happens at the top as there are enough to keep upscale cabins and ships full.

The question is at what point do people choose something other than cruising as changing lines accomplishes little to nothing?

Thus driving has motels now up some 25% along with fuel and meals up even more; so what happens in the future?

[D C]

29 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Where do you find a different cruisrline that offers value as defined as pre covid price and services.  Lots of demand for cruises.  Thus prices are still high.  Cuts on mainstream product are in total similar for all companies.   Upscale like Regent have simply raised prices.

The question is not what happens at the top as there are enough to keep upscale cabins and ships full.

The question is at what point do people choose something other than cruising as changing lines accomplishes little to nothing?

Thus driving has motels now up some 25% along with fuel and meals up even more; so what happens in the future?

I really wonder about demand when it comes to Celebrity.   They're still sailing with partially-filled ships, aren't they?   60-75%?  I didn't think X has had a full ship except for the holidays. 

 

On Princess right now and this thing is pert near full.   Downright crowded compared to my Thanksgiving Celebrity sailing.   Either Princess is doing a lot of things right, or X is doing them wrong. I'm guessing that small, fully refundable deposits are working in their favor as X has migrated to requiring quite a bit more as non-refundable. 

 

 

[Joebucks]

On 1/8/2023 at 2:38 PM, davekathy said:

...🙄

 

Chief Executive
Lisa Lutoff-Perlo
President and Chief Executive Officer
1050 Caribbean Way
Miami, FL 33132
lLutoff-Perlo@celebritycruises.com

 

Dear Lisa,

 

Please disregard the billions in crippling shutdown debt, labor shortage, and surging cost of all goods. I booked this trip specifically to eat all of the expensive lobster I wanted. I refuse to pay for it as you specifically advertise it no where. If you do not immediately change back, I will be taking my business to the numerous free lobster options. My loyalty is far more important than being financially solvent.

 

Signed, your best customer

[C4HCG]

On 1/19/2023 at 5:17 PM, NevadaCruiser2023 said:

Except, if you put someone behind the bar, they should know at least the bare minimum about the job. Ordering a drink on the rocks and getting a blank look wouldn't fill me with confidence that the drink will be correct. Come on, man! it's not hard to run someone through a quick hit the basics power point slide show. 

😂 some things people can get upset about. If you asked for a drink on the rocks where I live you’d get a blank look too! Not everyone speaks American you know, us English would politely say “with ice please”.