California Port Taxes

[Arizona Wildcat]

5 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Instead of the high port taxes  HAL should rebate the unused fuel savings  to off set those high port taxes in SF ,SD ,LA & Ensenada

Think of where the pier is located in SF.  Then ships are required to use VERY expensive shore power.  On an overnight stay the power and pier fees would cost more than cruising.

The OP has made this post in multiple forums.  Probably important that the cruiselines do not set the port charges or taxes.  They are passed thru.

Same for the Panama Canal that charges based on bed capacity at about $220 this year - adjusted each year.  Does it make any difference how the charges are paid?  They are what they are.

[CruiserBruce]

19 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Ir could easily reach  the point where the port taxes for the 3  deep sea ports pushes business away from  the  California   ports   including cargo ships who may be apt to unload in Mexico   or  Oregon  . There are always ends to both good & bad things 

It could...or it may not.  Using ports (as home ports) in Mexico has been tried. Not particularly successful.

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Ir could easily reach  the point where the port taxes for the 3  deep sea ports pushes business away from  the  California   ports   including cargo ships who may be apt to unload in Mexico   or  Oregon  . There are always ends to both good & bad things 

There is no possibility of moving the volume of cargo that the California ports handle to Mexico or Oregon, without massive infrastructure improvements, which then have to be paid for by higher port fees.  And, around and around you go.

[mcrcruiser]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

There is no possibility of moving the volume of cargo that the California ports handle to Mexico or Oregon, without massive infrastructure improvements, which then have to be paid for by higher port fees.  And, around and around you go.

Long Beach is the huge cargo center  yet ships were stacked in the harbor for  months waiting to unload . Logically  there was plenty of unloading facilities in the Gulf & East coast ports  that those dummies could have used  to keep the supply chain moving  .Monopolies are never there to serve the best interest of the consuming public .  .These things need to change 

 

[mcrcruiser]

Just copied these taxes /port fees for the March 18 ,2023 Coastal Ca cruise  on Celebrity Soltice with SF , Monterey ,SD , LA . Ensenada Mx  :

 

 These taxes are on the least costly veranda 

 

 

(1) Cruise Fare$795.00

(1) Cruise Fare$44.00

(2) Government Fees$515.62

*EST. TOTAL$1,354.6

Edited February 6, 2023 by mcrcruiser

[AFNavigator]

Regarding cruise ships home porting and operating at higher cost California ports, cruise lines will ultimately decide if it is in their best financial interest to operate there.  If not, they will leave.

 

The realities are that cruise lines cannot effectively service the west coast of Mexico from Florida or Gulf Coast ports.  It comes down to location, location, location. If you want to cruise those destinations, you're pretty much stuck paying the high port fees. If one doesn't want to pay the fees, then they can choose not to cruise.

[kangforpres]

In comparison what do the New England ports of Boston and Bar Harbor charge compared to the California ports? I live in California so I don't feel the need to cruise it's shores. I do like sailing from San Diego on HAL and have sailed once on Princess RT from SF. I've only down one "California Coastal" and that's because it was a dirt cheap Casino cruise.

 

-Paul 

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Just copied these taxes /port fees for the March 18 ,2023 Coastal Ca cruise  on Celebrity Soltice with SF , Monterey ,SD , LA . Ensenada Mx  :

 

 These taxes are on the least costly veranda 

 

 

(1) Cruise Fare$795.00

(1) Cruise Fare$44.00

(2) Government Fees$515.62

*EST. TOTAL$1,354.6

While the 257.81 per person might be a little higher a Caribbean cruise I have booked comes in a $195  per person.  So really not that unexpected.

 

Taxes and fees are per person and normally do not change by cabin type.

Edited February 7, 2023 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

20 minutes ago, kangforpres said:

In comparison what do the New England ports of Boston and Bar Harbor charge compared to the California ports? I live in California so I don't feel the need to cruise it's shores. I do like sailing from San Diego on HAL and have sailed once on Princess RT from SF. I've only down one "California Coastal" and that's because it was a dirt cheap Casino cruise.

 

-Paul 

Just checked a 7 day Canadian cruise out of New York.  Per person taxes and fees are $245.  About the same as CA coastal.

[kangforpres]

Thanks Idtr, New England is an  expensive place to live too, just like California. I understand some peoples sticker shock at what things coast out here,  since I live with California prices everyday. Remember you can always cruise out of Texas and go on a DIY Mexican Walmart shorex. 

[terrydtx]

12 hours ago, ldtr said:

Just checked a 7 day Canadian cruise out of New York.  Per person taxes and fees are $245.  About the same as CA coastal.

Last week we booked the Koningsdam California Coastal 7 day cruise in November and our Taxes and fees are only $225pp which doesn't seem out of line compared to other cruises. I just looked at a 7 day Alaska Cruise on the Eurodam for this summer and for that cruise the Taxes and fees are $350pp.  For our cruise in November the T & F's do not seem to be out of place or exceedingly high. This whole issue seems to be a nothingburger.

 

Here is what shows for our Ca Coastal cruise in November on our HAL invoice:

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by terrydtx

[Ipeeinthepools]

I agree, Port taxes and fees are really low on my list of things to worry about because there’s nothing I can do about them.  Is the bottom line price of the cruise a good value for me?  That’s the only thing that really matters.

[FlaMariner]

16 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Just copied these taxes /port fees for the March 18 ,2023 Coastal Ca cruise  on Celebrity Soltice with SF , Monterey ,SD , LA . Ensenada Mx  :

 

 These taxes are on the least costly veranda 

 

 

(1) Cruise Fare$795.00

(1) Cruise Fare$44.00

(2) Government Fees$515.62

*EST. TOTAL$1,354.6

 

Wow.  The government gets 61% of the cruise fare cost????......That's enough to put a dent in bookings....and seems excessive.  

 

Folks can fly from the west coast to the east coast and still cruise with less $$$. 

 

Yet another reason to love cruising from Florida.

[Ipeeinthepools]

8 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

 

Wow.  The government gets 61% of the cruise fare cost????......That's enough to put a dent in bookings....and seems excessive.  

 

Folks can fly from the west coast to the east coast and still cruise with less $$$. 

 

Yet another reason to love cruising from Florida.

Or… it’s a great bargain on the cruise fare sailing from the west coast because many people don’t like the itineraries.

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

Last week we booked the Koningsdam California Coastal 7 day cruise in November and our Taxes and fees are only $225pp which doesn't seem out of line compared to other cruises. I just looked at a 7 day Alaska Cruise on the Eurodam for this summer and for that cruise the Taxes and fees are $350pp.  For our cruise in November the T & F's do not seem to be out of place or exceedingly high. This whole issue seems to be a nothingburger.

 

Here is what shows for our Ca Coastal cruise in November on our HAL invoice:

 

I just looked at a 7 day Western Carribean cruise for December and the Port taxes and fees are in line with California at $380 vs our California Coastal at $450 or only $70 more.

 

 

[terrydtx]

17 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Just copied these taxes /port fees for the March 18 ,2023 Coastal Ca cruise  on Celebrity Soltice with SF , Monterey ,SD , LA . Ensenada Mx  :

 

 These taxes are on the least costly veranda 

 

 

(1) Cruise Fare$795.00

(1) Cruise Fare$44.00

(2) Government Fees$515.62

*EST. TOTAL$1,354.6

Our HAL November California Coastal cruise is only $450 for the taxes and fees for 4 ports leaving from San Diego. The X cruise you quoted above is for 5 ports and leaves from LA which is why it is more than our cruise in November. I see nothing out of line.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by terrydtx

[FlaMariner]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

Last week we booked the Koningsdam California Coastal 7 day cruise in November and our Taxes and fees are only $225pp which doesn't seem out of line compared to other cruises. I just looked at a 7 day Alaska Cruise on the Eurodam for this summer and for that cruise the Taxes and fees are $350pp.  For our cruise in November the T & F's do not seem to be out of place or exceedingly high. This whole issue seems to be a nothingburger.

 

Here is what shows for our Ca Coastal cruise in November on our HAL invoice:

 

 

That's 13% and seems reasonable.  I hope that holds and not the horrific 61% number!

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

But this is the Holland America Line board and not sure cargo shipping has anything to do with the high cost of cruise port charges?

The OP brought up the possibility that high port charges could force cargo ships away from the California ports, after I pointed out that the taxes and fees paid by cruise ships was only a minor portion of the revenue the major ports take in, mostly from cargo ships.  My point was that the large commercial port authorities in California would hardly notice the loss in revenue if cruise lines were to drop them.

[mcrcruiser]

The question remains will port taxes continue to increase & if so then how would that likely impact cruise sales along with the higher prices being set by the cruise lines   Consumers have been using saved up finds to combat rising costs in every area  of living  . So to speak when will all the price increases impact cruise line sales which are considered in the luxury category   .In my opinion it is headed in that direction faster in that direction than one may think  . This is why cruise line stocks are not appealing along with their very high debt  

 Although main line cruise lines could suffer lower sales in the future there is always room for the luxury brands to continue to flourish as there are those with very deep pockets 

[terrydtx]

17 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Just copied these taxes /port fees for the March 18 ,2023 Coastal Ca cruise  on Celebrity Soltice with SF , Monterey ,SD , LA . Ensenada Mx  :

 

 These taxes are on the least costly veranda 

 

 

(1) Cruise Fare$795.00

(1) Cruise Fare$44.00

(2) Government Fees$515.62

*EST. TOTAL$1,354.6

The price for the Government fees you are showing is for 2 people or $257.81 per person which is the same in any category you would book on that cruise.

[chengkp75]

Port taxes and fees will continue to increase as long as maintenance and repair costs continue to rise, unless the public wants to support a port authority with state or local general tax revenue.  Cruise lines will have no control over this.  Higher prices set by the cruise lines are required to service their accumulated debt.  Cruise prices over the two decades prior to the pandemic were less expensive each year than the year before, in terms of current dollars, so cruisers were getting spoiled by paying less in constant dollars than in the past.

 

In my opinion, cruise line stocks have never been very attractive, giving only a modest, median return on investment.  Shipowning is a capital intensive business that does not give a great return, and is very dependent on forces outside of the company's control, like weather.

[mcrcruiser]

The vast majority  of wealth in the USA is  held by the older generation  . because this is  a fact the numbers each year shrink  Although  there are the younger who inherit monies their  spending habits  are  very different than those of the past who were savers & not spenders   .This as well will ultimately impact cruise lines sales . Remember the rent/mortgage  must get paid before a cruise at lofty prices gets booked  .Again ,a downside for buying cruise line stocks with projected shrinking sales as the cash flows start drying up   .Still the luxury brands will do well  . 

 Yes there are head winds out there   & imo  the mass cruise lines will be one of the first to feel it's impact

Edited February 7, 2023 by mcrcruiser

[mcrcruiser]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Port taxes and fees will continue to increase as long as maintenance and repair costs continue to rise, unless the public wants to support a port authority with state or local general tax revenue.  Cruise lines will have no control over this.  Higher prices set by the cruise lines are required to service their accumulated debt.  Cruise prices over the two decades prior to the pandemic were less expensive each year than the year before, in terms of current dollars, so cruisers were getting spoiled by paying less in constant dollars than in the past.

 

In my opinion, cruise line stocks have never been very attractive, giving only a modest, median return on investment.  Shipowning is a capital intensive business that does not give a great return, and is very dependent on forces outside of the company's control, like weather.

 Very well said .Add this to what I just said & it all adds up . so if I want that extra OBC for share holders I will buy that 100 shares to be on record & sell it as quick as I bought it 

[Colorado Klutch]

17 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

The vast majority  of wealth in the USA is  held by the older generation  . because this is  a fact the numbers each year shrink  Although  there are the younger who inherit monies their  spending habits  are  very different than those of the past who were savers & not spenders   .This as well will ultimately impact cruise lines sales . Remember the rent/mortgage  must get paid before a cruise at lofty prices gets booked  .Again ,a downside for buying cruise line stocks with projected shrinking sales as the cash flows start drying up   .Still the luxury brands will do well  . 

 Yes there are head winds out there   & imo  the mass cruise lines will be one of the first to feel it's impact

 

Disney has a very tiny segment of the cruise market, yet their cruise line somehow manages to make a good profit; and without any casinos. (This may change with the under-construction ship they just bought.) One obvious advantage is Disney has DEEEEEEP pockets and isn't saddled with the enormous debt other cruise lines have. 

I've never been on a Disney cruise. I've looked into it and they are expensive. Yet, Disney Cruise Lines consistently get extremely high satisfaction scores. Is this a factor of rabid Disney fans, or are they simply doing things right? Maybe Carnival could learn a few things from Disney here. 

 

[mcrcruiser]

6 minutes ago, Colorado Klutch said:

 

Disney has a very tiny segment of the cruise market, yet their cruise line somehow manages to make a good profit; and without any casinos. (This may change with the under-construction ship they just bought.) One obvious advantage is Disney has DEEEEEEP pockets and isn't saddled with the enormous debt other cruise lines have. 

I've never been on a Disney cruise. I've looked into it and they are expensive. Yet, Disney Cruise Lines consistently get extremely high satisfaction scores. Is this a factor of rabid Disney fans, or are they simply doing things right? Maybe Carnival could learn a few things from Disney here. 

 

Disney has it 's share of problems as well that is why Bob Eigger came back for 2  year contract as CEO .He came out of retirement at 71 .Disney  stock has had a big decline  .Being that said their cruise line does well .Again ,a luxury line vs  mass market carriers . They & Viking do not have casinos

Edited February 7, 2023 by mcrcruiser