How Many Understaffed HAL Ships Have You Sailed On

[Cruiz'nBaers]

We have been on 2 HAL cruises since the restart, 1 in October 2021 for 7 days, and on the VOV in July 2022.  I expected a staff shortage on our first cruise, but in July of ‘22 I was disappointed.  It is my opinion that HAL is intentionally understaffing to keep their costs down.  I also believe they are cutting their inventory too close, resulting in being out of so many items.  Our October cruise was very inexpensive, they were still enticing people back on board, our July VOV was not a bargain cruise, very much in line with previous VOV prices.  We are booked, again, for 35 days in February of 2024 to Hawaii and the South Pacific, I am hoping that things will be much improved by then.  If not, we may not be cruising with them for a while.  It’s disappointing when our favorite way to see the world has been downgraded.  Just my opinion.

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

Maybe HAL did fire some people.  They are looking for 2 Directors for Hotel Talent Acquisition- Fleet 

 

Hotel Talent Acquisition? Is this "someone to hire stewards and waiters?" Who comes up with these titles?????

[cruisemom42]

41 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Travel visas come from the country you want to visit. Wouldn't work visas be the same? As cruisers, we are told we are responsible for getting our own visas. I would hope a cruise company would help prospective employees apply for visas. 

 

I have no idea. If you want to work in the US, you have to get a work visa allowing you to do so. I would've thought that for crew or staff on a ship, a work visa would have to be issued from whatever "country" is considered to be doing the hiring and signing the paychecks, not every country visited on every ship itinerary. But I have no idea whether that's actually the case....

[vicd1969]

5 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I have no idea. If you want to work in the US, you have to get a work visa allowing you to do so. I would've thought that for crew or staff on a ship, a work visa would have to be issued from whatever "country" is considered to be doing the hiring and signing the paychecks, not every country visited on every ship itinerary. But I have no idea whether that's actually the case....

At least for the USA, if a cruise ship is operating at a US port, all foreign crew require a work visa:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/other-visa-categories/crewmember-visa.html

 

Crewmember Visa

 

Generally, a citizen of a foreign country who wishes to enter the United States must first obtain a visa, either a nonimmigrant visa for temporary stay, or an immigrant visa for permanent residence. Crewmember (D) visas are nonimmigrant visas for persons working on board commercial sea vessels or international airlines in the United States, providing services required for normal operation and intending to depart the United States on the same vessel or any other vessel within 29 days. If you travel to the United States to join the vessel you will work on, in addition to a crewmember (D) visa, you also need a transit (C-1) visa or a combination C-1/D visa.

 

 

Travel purposes which require Crewmember (D) Visas - Examples:

 

• pilot or flight attendant on a commercial airplane
• captain, engineer, or deckhand on a sea vessel
• lifeguard, cook, waiter, beautician, or other service staff on a cruise ship
• trainee on board a training vessel

[3rdGenCunarder]

37 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I have no idea. If you want to work in the US, you have to get a work visa allowing you to do so. I would've thought that for crew or staff on a ship, a work visa would have to be issued from whatever "country" is considered to be doing the hiring and signing the paychecks, not every country visited on every ship itinerary. But I have no idea whether that's actually the case....

 

30 minutes ago, vicd1969 said:

At least for the USA, if a cruise ship is operating at a US port, all foreign crew require a work visa:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/other-visa-categories/crewmember-visa.html

 

Crewmember Visa

 

Generally, a citizen of a foreign country who wishes to enter the United States must first obtain a visa, either a nonimmigrant visa for temporary stay, or an immigrant visa for permanent residence. Crewmember (D) visas are nonimmigrant visas for persons working on board commercial sea vessels or international airlines in the United States, providing services required for normal operation and intending to depart the United States on the same vessel or any other vessel within 29 days. If you travel to the United States to join the vessel you will work on, in addition to a crewmember (D) visa, you also need a transit (C-1) visa or a combination C-1/D visa.

 

 

Travel purposes which require Crewmember (D) Visas - Examples:

 

• pilot or flight attendant on a commercial airplane
• captain, engineer, or deckhand on a sea vessel
• lifeguard, cook, waiter, beautician, or other service staff on a cruise ship
• trainee on board a training vessel

 

I was thinking about a work visa as "where you're going," in this case, to a US-based company (or US-based ships), as described above. I've heard stories from people complaining how long it takes to get a passport, so I can understand that these visas do take some time. 

 

But this leads me to another question, thread drift here. The ships visit so many countries, some of which require visas. How is that handled for crew? 

 

[mcrcruiser]

41 minutes ago, vicd1969 said:

At least for the USA, if a cruise ship is operating at a US port, all foreign crew require a work visa:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/other-visa-categories/crewmember-visa.html

 

Crewmember Visa

 

Generally, a citizen of a foreign country who wishes to enter the United States must first obtain a visa, either a nonimmigrant visa for temporary stay, or an immigrant visa for permanent residence. Crewmember (D) visas are nonimmigrant visas for persons working on board commercial sea vessels or international airlines in the United States, providing services required for normal operation and intending to depart the United States on the same vessel or any other vessel within 29 days. If you travel to the United States to join the vessel you will work on, in addition to a crewmember (D) visa, you also need a transit (C-1) visa or a combination C-1/D visa.

 

 

Travel purposes which require Crewmember (D) Visas - Examples:

 

• pilot or flight attendant on a commercial airplane
• captain, engineer, or deckhand on a sea vessel
• lifeguard, cook, waiter, beautician, or other service staff on a cruise ship
• trainee on board a training vessel

   If the USA is having problems with getting out work visas this definitely will impact the quality of HAL's cruises . Short staff ships makes for longer wait times in the MDR as we have witnessed   very  long  lines  &  long ties to place & receive  the food order  & staff problems in the Lido as well with tables not being cleaned & soiled dishes   being left on tables for more than ordinary times   .We did see all this happen 

[OlsSalt]

6 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

........The money in the USA is really in the hands of those mostly retired who were savers for most of their lives  . That part of the population are also looking at  a need for help in their future & thus are keeping money for that help as well 

 

Do not over look the retiring baby-boomer government employees, who will have a steady and generous lifetime pension income stream; which is not subject to outside economic forces. That is a great target market. Educated, white collar, and one more full pension check always be waiting to cashed when they come home.

[mcrcruiser]

37 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Do not over look the retiring baby-boomer government employees, who will have a steady and generous lifetime pension income stream; which is not subject to outside economic forces. That is a great target market. Educated, white collar, and one more full pension check always be waiting to cashed when they come home.

This depends on their spending habits . People who are savers & invest wisely will always have a strong income stream . We have known people who have  large pension checks who live up to every cent having 2 homes to maintain  drive very expensive cars ,ie  .This is their life style  &  not geared to cruises  for vacations . 

[Hlitner]

I appreciate the review but will form my own opinion (on staffing) when we spend 42 days on Westy in the spring.  But, I do think that the time for excuses (by some cruise lines), defensiveness by cheerleaders...many of whom have not even been on a cruise since the COVID shutdown, etc. is past.  Yes, there are Visa and other bureaucratic issues (nothing new for the cruise lines) but we are now well past a year since most operations were resumed.  We have been on 3 other cruise lines, in the past year, and service levels were fine on all our cruises.  On one voyage with Princess, there were obvious staff reductions which was expected since that ship was only sailing at about 60% of capacity.  In fact, Princess shut down one of their 3 MDRs (all 3 are essentially identical) since it was not needed during our 2 week voyage.  That made good sense, and everyone was easily handled in the other two MDRs with no inconvenience.  I should also add that on those other lines (Princess, Seabourn and MSC) entertainment and other onboard activities were completely normal with no dark nights, no passing off a slide show or documentary as main entertainment, etc.  I have always been somewhat amazed how MSC manages to put on 7 different Production Shows (with relatively large casts) on a 7-day cruise!  HAL did not have that many Production shows on a 2-month cruise (back when HAL still had Production Shows) as their singers/dancers only had 4 shows in their repertoire.

 

I am also curious about some of the recent info on the conversion from BB King to Rolling Stone.  A few posts suggest that HAL has simply reduced the size of the old BB King groups (eliminated the horns) and rebranded.  If this is true (we would like to see more posts from the ships) it continues a disturbing HAL trend (started many years ago) to keep reducing the number of onboard entertainers.  I am sure there are come long time cheerleaders who would simply say "we don't stay up for the show so do not care" but this guy does stay up for the shows and lounge entertainment.  I could not help but laugh about one recent post (by a long time HAL fan) who said they really didn't care about their meal since they were happy with after dinner gelato.  Come on folks, with that kind of logic I could say, I don't care about food, entertainment or service as long as my cognac glass is filled 🙂

 

Hank

 

Hank

[tunafish]

2 hours ago, vicd1969 said:

At least for the USA, if a cruise ship is operating at a US port, all foreign crew require a work visa:

 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/other-visa-categories/crewmember-visa.html

 

Crewmember Visa

 

Generally, a citizen of a foreign country who wishes to enter the United States must first obtain a visa, either a nonimmigrant visa for temporary stay, or an immigrant visa for permanent residence. Crewmember (D) visas are nonimmigrant visas for persons working on board commercial sea vessels or international airlines in the United States, providing services required for normal operation and intending to depart the United States on the same vessel or any other vessel within 29 days. If you travel to the United States to join the vessel you will work on, in addition to a crewmember (D) visa, you also need a transit (C-1) visa or a combination C-1/D visa.

 

 

Travel purposes which require Crewmember (D) Visas - Examples:

 

• pilot or flight attendant on a commercial airplane
• captain, engineer, or deckhand on a sea vessel
• lifeguard, cook, waiter, beautician, or other service staff on a cruise ship
• trainee on board a training vessel

it is a crew visa, nothing to do with us work visa. crew visas usually obtained by company in a batch process and really a formality (in comparison to US working visa that allow immigration intent)

[mcrcruiser]

8 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I appreciate the review but will form my own opinion (on staffing) when we spend 42 days on Westy in the spring.  But, I do think that the time for excuses (by some cruise lines), defensiveness by cheerleaders...many of whom have not even been on a cruise since the COVID shutdown, etc. is past.  Yes, there are Visa and other bureaucratic issues (nothing new for the cruise lines) but we are now well past a year since most operations were resumed.  We have been on 3 other cruise lines, in the past year, and service levels were fine on all our cruises.  On one voyage with Princess, there were obvious staff reductions which was expected since that ship was only sailing at about 60% of capacity.  In fact, Princess shut down one of their 3 MDRs (all 3 are essentially identical) since it was not needed during our 2 week voyage.  That made good sense, and everyone was easily handled in the other two MDRs with no inconvenience.  I should also add that on those other lines (Princess, Seabourn and MSC) entertainment and other onboard activities were completely normal with no dark nights, no passing off a slide show or documentary as main entertainment, etc.  I have always been somewhat amazed how MSC manages to put on 7 different Production Shows (with relatively large casts) on a 7-day cruise!  HAL did not have that many Production shows on a 2-month cruise (back when HAL still had Production Shows) as their singers/dancers only had 4 shows in their repertoire.

 

I am also curious about some of the recent info on the conversion from BB King to Rolling Stone.  A few posts suggest that HAL has simply reduced the size of the old BB King groups (eliminated the horns) and rebranded.  If this is true (we would like to see more posts from the ships) it continues a disturbing HAL trend (started many years ago) to keep reducing the number of onboard entertainers.  I am sure there are come long time cheerleaders who would simply say "we don't stay up for the show so do not care" but this guy does stay up for the shows and lounge entertainment.  I could not help but laugh about one recent post (by a long time HAL fan) who said they really didn't care about their meal since they were happy with after dinner gelato.  Come on folks, with that kind of logic I could say, I don't care about food, entertainment or service as long as my cognac glass is filled 🙂

 

Hank

 

Hank

Right on spot Hank . People need to realize that any form of  vacation must meet a quality .value that people are willing to pay  .Anything less put forth will soon find it's demise . Just a matter of time   . imo HALS over all quality has diminished a lot  since reopening  . There shows have never been exciting to watch if ever  .Mariachi bands  used   for the  World Stage does not substitute for a good show or specialist entertainer 

[Mary229]

@Hlitner  I agree with your sentiment but in many parts of life I continue to see inventory and staff shortages, shortened hours , increased prices.  If it wasn’t everywhere I would see your point.  But it is.   I regularly walk into stores with empty shelves, reduced services at entertainment venues and worse - reduction of government services.  Whether it is staff shortages or supply chain issues does not matter for this discussion, only that it is a fact

[OlsSalt]

30 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

. I could not help but laugh about one recent post (by a long time HAL fan) who said they really didn't care about their meal since they were happy with after dinner gelato.  Come on folks, with that kind of logic I could say, I don't care about food, entertainment or service as long as my cognac glass is filled 🙂

 

Hank

 

Hank

 

Hank take a little more care when making up what others say that give you a good laugh .

 

The laughs on you. I said what I had for lunch (from the many HAL Konigsdam lunch offering) did not really matter since I did love their wonderful gelato. Logical for me.

[Florida_gal_50]

37 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

@Hlitner  I agree with your sentiment but in many parts of life I continue to see inventory and staff shortages, shortened hours , increased prices.  If it wasn’t everywhere I would see your point.  But it is.   I regularly walk into stores with empty shelves, reduced services at entertainment venues and worse - reduction of government services.  Whether it is staff shortages or supply chain issues does not matter for this discussion, only that it is a fact

I've been lucky I guess.  Except for the first maybe 6 months of the pandemic grocery stores in my area have been fully stocked with the odd thing out of stock.  Hal seems to still struggle with the supply chain.  You would think Carnival Corp would have a lot more clout than my grocery store.  They can't get limes in Florida, meanwhile I have zero problems in freezing Canada. That's seems to be a choice to me.

[Mary229]

35 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I've been lucky I guess.  Except for the first maybe 6 months of the pandemic grocery stores in my area have been fully stocked with the odd thing out of stock.  Hal seems to still struggle with the supply chain.  You would think Carnival Corp would have a lot more clout than my grocery store.  They can't get limes in Florida, meanwhile I have zero problems in freezing Canada. That's seems to be a choice to me.

I live in a large urban area where the roads of supply converge.  We are having issues. Anecdotally it is they simply can’t get people to work.  No one to stock shelves, droves of Americans still sitting at home , not enough truck drivers available to transport goods.  It is well documented if you read the industry reports from a variety of industries.

 

  My biggest beef with HAL, as it is with many governments and business activities , is the lack of training of new staff. This is both on the ship and on the phone lines.   I don’t want to go to far off topic but I have had similar bad customer service issues with the IRS, the post office and other agencies - problems I never had before 2020

Edited February 10, 2023 by Mary229

[Navybikermom]

I had one cruise last March on the NA, and two since then on the Zaandam. All seemed adequately staffed. I could tell there were some new staff members on board, and they seemed to have issues with consistency (ice in cabin intermittently, forgetting daily programs, only 1 towel animal on a 16-day cruise…), but I still enjoyed each cruise. The NA had some rowdy young’uns on board, but everything else seemed ok. The Panama Canal cruise was the best. Staff was outstanding, entertainment was nicely varied, and no major issues noted. 

[seaoma]

We have lost 4.7 million people ages 18-74 in the last 3 years. I think that's making more of an impact on workplaces than lazy people. 

[Hlitner]

2 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

What is good about AI is that the problems of industry staffing will be substantially  decreased all over the world . The entire cruise industry will gain  immensely at that time

I see good and bad with AI, but is certainly going to impact cruises (in the near term).  AI technology and robotics are making it easer to replace humans with machines.  AI bar tenders can work 24/7, never overpour (unless it is deliberate), not need to be flown to and from the ship for contracts, do not eat, etc.  I imagine there will even be AI robotic cabin stewards although this might still be a few years in the future.   Robotics will also take an increasing roll in the galley where some line cooks will be able to replaced with machines.    The down side is that many of us do like the human component.  It is hard to accept that we will be greeted by old robot friends in a similar manner as when it happens with friends among the crew.    

 

In the MDR I do not think we are far away from a time when AI Robots will be able to take on a lot of assistant waiter duties such as clearing the table, pouring water, wine, etc.

 

Hank

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I live in a large urban area where the roads of supply converge.  We are having issues. Anecdotally it is they simply can’t get people to work.  No one to stock shelves, droves of Americans still sitting at home , not enough truck drivers available to transport goods.  It is well documented if you read the industry reports from a variety of industries.

 

  My biggest beef with HAL, as it is with many governments and business activities , is the lack of training of new staff. This is both on the ship and on the phone lines.   I don’t want to go to far off topic but I have had similar bad customer service issues with the IRS, the post office and other agencies - problems I never had before 2020

 

There is also the issue of less "service orientation" among younger workers today.  

 

And a lot more employee competition, so the lower-skill service industry entry level jobs are no longer the only choice when starting to build one's employment history.  High tech entry jobs now compete for workers all around the world - including India, Indonesia and the Philippines which was the traditional HAL labor market resource. 

[Florida_gal_50]

3 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

What is good about AI is that the problems of industry staffing will be substantially  decreased all over the world . The entire cruise industry will gain  immensely at that time

Until hal needs “parts” for them from the dreaded supply chain 😛.

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I see good and bad with AI, but is certainly going to impact cruises (in the near term).  AI technology and robotics are making it easer to replace humans with machines.  AI bar tenders can work 24/7, never overpour (unless it is deliberate), not need to be flown to and from the ship for contracts, do not eat, etc.  I imagine there will even be AI robotic cabin stewards although this might still be a few years in the future.   Robotics will also take an increasing roll in the galley where some line cooks will be able to replaced with machines.    The down side is that many of us do like the human component.  It is hard to accept that we will be greeted by old robot friends in a similar manner as when it happens with friends among the crew.    

 

In the MDR I do not think we are far away from a time when AI Robots will be able to take on a lot of assistant waiter duties such as clearing the table, pouring water, wine, etc.

 

Hank

 

I'm trying to imagine someone singing "It's quarter to three, no one in the place except you and me..." to a robot bartender. Nope, just doesn't work.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

Until hal needs “parts” for them from the dreaded supply chain 😛.

 

Or until he gets too smart for everyone's own good and says "I'm sorry. I can't make your martini, Dave."

[Hlitner]

6 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I'm trying to imagine someone singing "It's quarter to three, no one in the place except you and me..." to a robot bartender. Nope, just doesn't work.

ROFL.  Thank you for giving me a good laugh.  Not related, but just another HAL thought.  We were once on a long VOV cruise that had Barry from Boston as the piano bar entertainer.  DW and I have been familar with Barry from long before he worked on HAL, so for us, it was great to see him on the cruise.  We would usually sit at the bar (which surrounded the piano) and along with one other couple, were normally in our seats until close (11:30 - 12).  Towards the end (every night) Barry Rocklin would do a quick count of how many were left in the bar (usually less than 10) and do the Sesame Street song for that small number.  

 

Hank

[OlsSalt]

How good is AI- got stuck just recently trying to order a Filet of Fish Meal at the McDonald's kiosk.

 

I am not too swift at these things, but I got caught in an endless loop of nonsense next step directions no matter how many times I tried.

 

Finally went to the pick up counter and told them I had been defeated by the machine and could I just place my order in person. He said no problem, and that they were always having problems with the AI interface. 

 

AI is still a work in progress - who trains AI to follow orders? And to carry out orders.

Or did AI  want  to force me to order some extra large fries to enjoy him/herself?

 

Daisy .....daisy .......

[3rdGenCunarder]

6 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

How good is AI- got stuck just recently trying to order a Filet of Fish Meal at the McDonald's kiosk.

 

I am not too swift at these things, but I got caught in an endless loop of nonsense next step directions no matter how many times I tried.

 

Finally went to the pick up counter and told them I had been defeated by the machine and could I just place my order in person. He said no problem, and that they were always having problems with the AI interface. 

 

AI is still a work in progress - who trains AI to follow orders? And to carry out orders.

Or did AI  want  to force me to order some extra large fries to enjoy him/herself?

 

Daisy .....daisy .......

 

I had a fight with one of those at a newly revamped Dunkin the other day. Amtrak's Julie can be annoying, too.