Frustrating rollout by HAL of notice of apparent itinerary change

[Turtles06]

My wife and I are booked on the Rotterdam’s 21-day “Voyage of the Midnight Sun & Norse Legends,” July 1-22, 2023.  As seems to be common for HAL, there are three other voyages on the Rotterdam with dates that overlap with various weeks of our cruise, each with different voyage names and “numbers" (such that there are four different Cruise Critic Roll Calls spanning all or part of the dates of our cruise).  On July 13, our voyage, and two of the other voyages, are scheduled to dock in Stavanger, Norway.  That’s been the case since the cruises opened for booking.  It seems that HAL has now changed the itinerary so that we won’t call at Stavanger, but instead at Sandnes, about 10 miles away (which will make a difference, especially for certain private shore excursions), yet HAL seems to be dragging its feet telling affected guests about this.

 

Some days ago, a member of our July 1-15 Roll Call posted that they’d just received notice from HAL that a HAL shore excursion they’d booked for Stavanger had been cancelled because of an “itinerary change” on July 13 that replaces Stavanger with a port call to Sandnes.  No one else on any of the three Roll Calls covering July 13 reported any notice of an itinerary change, nor has anyone in the days since, and our accounts still show us docking in Stavanger on July 13.  In fact, we are still able to book the very same July 13 shore excursion that HAL cancelled for this person.  

 

Since that person’s notice came from HAL Shorex, I called HAL Shorex to ask about this.  The rep with whom I spoke acknowledged that there was an itinerary change for July 13 on that person’s voyage (July 1-15), but since there was no such change posted for MY differently-numbered voyage (July 1-22), she said I had “nothing to worry about.”   She was absolutely unable to grasp the fact that we were all going to be on the same ship on the same date, regardless of the voyage “number.”  It was one of the most frustrating conversations I’ve ever had with anyone (and a very poor showing by HAL customer service).

 

I called my HAL PCC (who is new to me since this booking), told them what’s going on, and asked if there’s been an itinerary change.  They basically told me to ignore social media and said I would just have to “wait my turn” to find out.  What?

 

There are some other facts that folks on the affected voyages have since been able to learn, no thanks to HAL:  the Stavanger port web site itself shows us docking in Sandnes and not in Stavanger, and the Bergen port web site (our port prior to Stavanger) shows our next port as Sandnes, not Stavanger.

 

Nonetheless, none of us has gotten any notice from HAL of an itinerary change for July 13.  Interestingly, folks booked on the Rotterdam’s later cruise  -- July 15-29  -- were informed by HAL almost a week ago that their scheduled July 26 call to Stavanger had been replace by Sandnes. 

 

It’s an extremely frustrating situation, and it’s hard to understand why HAL dribbled out a little tidbit to one person in connection with cancelling their July 13 shore excursion (that the rest of us can still book), yet has not given any notice to everyone booked on any of the voyages that are scheduled to call at Stavanger on July 13.

 

Once HAL has taken action to notify some people of an itinerary change, it seems to me it should notify everyone who will be on the same ship on the affected date.  We’ve only sailed with HAL once, so I have no idea whether this slow-walking is customary (I hope it's not), but it’s extremely frustrating (nor am I happy with the answers that I received when I called to inquire about this).

 

[KAKcruiser]

Shore excursions for Stavanger have also been cancelled for the May 27 sailing of the Rotterdam because of an itinerary change to Sandnes but no official word has come from Holland America.  Like you, we would be able to still book the Stavanger tours that they just cancelled.  Also, the letter from Shore excursions says that the tours in Sandnes are available to book but they are not.  When we called, they said the tours should be available in two weeks.  

[Skicruiser55]

I am on the Jul 15-29 sailing and haven’t heard anything about the port change for Stavanger.  I understand changes happen but this is off putting that we can’t find out definitive information from the cruise line.  

[syesmar]

33 minutes ago, Turtles06 said:

...Once HAL has taken action to notify some people of an itinerary change, it seems to me it should notify everyone who will be on the same ship on the affected date.  We’ve only sailed with HAL once, so I have no idea whether this slow-walking is customary (I hope it's not), but it’s extremely frustrating (nor am I happy with the answers that I received when I called to inquire about this).

Agree, @Turtles06!

I recall a few years ago, there was a December Canary Islands cruise that had multiple booking options (2 or 3 different options for embarkation dates/ports, 2 different options for disembarkation dates/ports). A person who was briefly my PCC called and said they noticed we had been cruise shopping online 😉and asked if I had questions. I told her I had questions about the sailing and she said, "HAL doesn't cruise in Europe in December." 😀 Well, obviously, I had info and she kept contradicting me even though I was looking right at the sailings. It was incredibly frustrating, as I needed information in order to put my airline tickets on hold independently (we ended up going on the cruise, booking through a travel agency, and the sailing was fabulous).

I am so grateful for Cruise Critic in situations like this. It helps so much for others to share information. I hope you can get everything worked out to your liking. That part of the world is so enchanting!

 

Wishing you the Best!

Edited March 4, 2023 by syesmar

[Catlover54]

This sort of thing is indeed very frustrating, and has unfortunately become the norm in recent years for almost every cruise line *including multiple luxury lines* I have been on, and also with land travel.  People hired to deal with customer questions or concerns (once you get through to them after interminable holds and/or phone trees, emails, requests for call-backs etc.), too often know less than the passenger, or worse, provide misinformation and generate confusion (and yet Terms and Conditions are quite clear that the passenger is the one responsible for being where he is supposed to be and on time and no liability is assumed for missed private excursions).

Sadly, these people are also generally not that bright (the smart people have gone to work in other jobs or have been promoted to areas that protect them from actually dealing with icky things such as people -- customers -- who keep them in business) .  The salaries paid are overall too small to lure in reasonably intelligent people, and turnover is large.

 

 It increases the stress of cruising and travel when it is a battle to get accurate information from cruise lines, airlines, insurance, etc.

Dealing with a good travel agent from the get-go can help to some degree (e.g., put it on them to chase down accurate information, though even using a TA is not a guarantee), and of course being on CC is also helpful.

 

None of this empathy helps you now, of course, but it sounds like you have learned about what is going on the hard way.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Catlover54
Typo

[ChinaShrek]

It has become common now for HAL to announce itinerary changes once the sailing actually begins. Some people suspect this is done to encourage people to keep booking the cruise even though the itinerary isn't completely accurate. It is now something I mentally prepare for when cruising.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Wow. Just wow. As I read the first post, I kept thinking how can HAL be making such a complicated mess of something that could be simple if they had simply notified all affected passengers as soon as the decision was made. Nobody should have to "wait their turn" to be notified. HAL can send out an email blast trying to sell HIA to a zillion people. They can't contact a few thousand in a timely manner?

 

I can understand the cancelled tour still being sold. That's a disconnect between the people who make plans and the IT department--and HAL isn't exactly covering themselves in glory in IT. That doesn't excuse it, just an explanation.

 

BUT for a rep to be unable to comprehend that the shorter cruise, which got the notification, is part of the longer cruise... How can a line that does long cruises and segments not train their people to be aware of this???? 

 

OP, if it's any consolation (and it probably isn't), I am going through a similar sloppy situation with American Queen. Changing and rescheduling ports (per an email answering my email and also a press release), but not updating the website or sending out notifications.

 

As for the port change, I wonder if Stavanger is joining the list of ports that are feeling overwhelmed and looking to limit the size and/or number of ships.

[Iamthesea]

"As for the port change, I wonder if Stavanger is joining the list of ports that are feeling overwhelmed and looking to limit the size and/or number of ships."

 

I understand that to be true, although, I thought it was not going to happen until next year.

 

There does not appear to be any change of port for my upcoming N. Statendam stop on May 16th.

Edited March 4, 2023 by Iamthesea

[Catlover54]

1 hour ago, ChinaShrek said:

It has become common now for HAL to announce itinerary changes once the sailing actually begins. Some people suspect this is done to encourage people to keep booking the cruise even though the itinerary isn't completely accurate. It is now something I mentally prepare for when cruising.

 

You are wise to prepare for it mentally (and it is not just HAL that is doing this -- even luxury lines pull stunts, e.g., even changing the disembarkation port and not letting pax officially know until 2 weeks before; thanks to CC, I fortunately knew 4 weeks before and was able to timely change my flights before all the seats were gone). 

 

A key problem with doing it is that it makes private excursions riskier than ship excursions, and it fosters ill will for all but the most "go with any flow" types of pax who just stay on the ship anyway and have little interest in ports in general, much less specific ports.

[Turtles06]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

Wow. Just wow. As I read the first post, I kept thinking how can HAL be making such a complicated mess of something that could be simple if they had simply notified all affected passengers as soon as the decision was made. Nobody should have to "wait their turn" to be notified. HAL can send out an email blast trying to sell HIA to a zillion people. They can't contact a few thousand in a timely manner? . . .

 

I really appreciate your entire post; thank you so much.  (I have to say that the "wait your turn" comment, from a HAL PCC no less, was infuriating.)

 

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

As for the port change, I wonder if Stavanger is joining the list of ports that are feeling overwhelmed and looking to limit the size and/or number of ships.

 

For July 13, two other ships besides the Rotterdam have long been scheduled to call at Stavanger:  the behemoth AIDAnova (5,000 pax!) and the relatively small Viking Jupiter (930 pax).  According to Cruise Norway, Stavanger can accommodate three ships, even "the biggest," and the photo on this Cruise Norway web page shows that it can: 

 

https://cruise-norway.no/destinations/stavanger/#:~:text=The Port of Stavanger offers,smaller ones are also welcome.

 

Maybe it no longer wants to, or it really can't do so when a something as huge as the AIDAnova is in port.  In any event, the very interesting "mooring plans" diagram for July 13 on the Stavanger port web site (scroll down on the page linked below after calling up July 13) does not show the third berth in use, just the AIDAnova and the Viking Jupiter at the other two berths:

 

https://www.stavangerhavn.no/en/maritim/cruise/

 

But HAL has cancelled Stavanger for several other dates this coming summer. I haven't checked how many other ships are calling there on all those dates, but perhaps HAL is getting the short end of the stick.  That may not be HAL's fault, but how HAL handles notification of the change to its guests is entirely within HAL's control (as you recognized). 

 

 

[Turtles06]

30 minutes ago, Iamthesea said:

There does not appear to be any change of port for my upcoming N. Statendam stop on May 16th.

 

Yours is the only ship showing in Stavanger on their mooring plan for May 16, at the link I posted in my comment above.  Lucky you!  🙂 

[iceman93]

Someone else hit the nail on the head--HAL, like many other businesses, is struggling with basic staffing these days.  This situation has revealed failings in both the itinerary planning department and customer service.  If itinerary planning was fully on top of things, when a port change is finalized they would immediately notify all guests sailing on the affected ship no matter their particular voyage number.

 

But customer service is the even more frustrating part because they deal directly with the paying guests.  When the educated consumer knows more than the front-line rep does, it naturally leads to frustration.  Of course things like this have always happened (for example) with car salesmen who often know shockingly little about the product they are selling, let alone the competition.  But HAL used to, in the good old days, have on-top-of-it phone reps who displayed both common sense and a knowledge of the HAL product.  *sigh*

[Guest ldtr]

Stavanger has set a limit of 200 ship visits per year.

 

Bergen is setting a limit of no more than 3 ships per day with a max of 8,000 passengers.

 

With additional restrictions to be kicking in over the next few years.

 

 

[colin v]

4 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

Sadly, these people are also generally not that bright (the smart people have gone to work in other jobs or have been promoted to areas that protect them from actually dealing with icky things such as people -- customers -- who keep them in business) .  The salaries paid are overall too small to lure in reasonably intelligent people, and turnover is large.

Seriously? Be a better human!

[81Zoomie]

Those consumers that have not made final payment yet have options.  It’s frustrating that we are not getting timely notification of port changes.  

[Dancing Shoes]

If you wait for HAL to cancel your shore excursion automatically you will be lucky.  HAL switched Eidfjord for Ulvik for our May sailing.  An email from my TA said my excursion would be refunded.

I called HAL asking when.  "Oh you want to cancel the waterfall excursion"?  Yes, we are not going to that port.  Ok, you sure?  Yikes...I did get if fast though.

[Guest ldtr]

Keep in mind that customer service agents are training (pretty much in all industries) to limit their response to what their system says.  If it says that the itinerary is X they are going to say X.   If an itinerary is sold as 2 cruises or one cruise they will give you what their system says for that cruises.  Logic does not enter into it.  As the old saying in business used to be no one was ever fired for buying IBM.  If you are in customer service no one is fired for following the script and what their system says.  On the other hand they can be fired for giving information other than what their system states however right it might be.

 

Not a matter of how smart the customer service rep or is not it is how they are trained.  No company wants a customer service rep to wing it with their responses.  As a result the quality of their answer is limited to the quality of what their system says.  

 

Pretty standard for cruise lines to be rather slow in changing itineraries and letting passenger know.  

 

Once a itinerary is in the system, even if it is common knowledge  that a ship is not going to a given port (Venice for example due to the law change, or Bora Bora due to ship size) the cruise lines will often not make the change until that ship is officially notified that it cannot call.  

 

 

 

In this case there have some indications that the itinerary change is working through the system.  Though it is not an immediate action.  Once everything is in place (all of the departments set) then a general notification will probably go out.  After the departments are ready, not when the first department starts on the change.

Edited March 5, 2023 by ldtr

[Turtles06]

7 hours ago, ldtr said:

In this case there have some indications that the itinerary change is working through the system.  Though it is not an immediate action.  Once everything is in place (all of the departments set) then a general notification will probably go out.  After the departments are ready, not when the first department starts on the change.

 

But the itinerary change HAS already been made here by HAL.   Shore excursions for some of the affected people who will be aboard the Rotterdam on July 13 have been cancelled, with a notice plainly stating "Due to a recent itinerary change, the Rotterdam's call to Stavanger, Norway on July 13, 2023 has been canceled and replaced with a call to Sandness [sic] (Stavanger), Norway." 

 

We all know that an itinerary change is not made by the Shorex Department.  The change isn't "working through the system," the itinerary change has been made by HAL -- the shorex cancellation notice (sent only to a few guests, not all) said so.  At that point, and as @3rdGenCunarder recognized, all of the 2500 or so guests who will be aboard the Rotterdam on July 13 should have received an email notification of the itinerary change. 

 

Just last month, guests on the voyages aboard the Rotterdam on July 20 received an "ITINERARY CHANGE NOTIFICATION" stating:

"Please be advised that due to operational reasons Rotterdam will no longer call to Bergen, Norway on Thursday, July 20, 2023 but will instead call to Nordfjordeid, Norway from 7:00 AM to 2:00 PM on the same date.  . . . Holland America Line shore excursions booked for Bergen will be refunded to the original form of payment; updated excursion information will be available online within the next two weeks."

 

Unwelcome news, but at least it was sent out.

 

It's very simple.  If things have changed to the point that shore excursions have been cancelled on a certain date due to an "itinerary change," then HAL should be notifying all of the affected guests of that change, not dribbling out the news by telling a few people their shorex has been cancelled.  That's the tail wagging the dog.   It's absurd.

 

. 

[Skicruiser55]

I have to wonder if the reason they aren’t sending this change out quickly is because it’s so close to Stavanger that it’s still “considered” Stavanger?  Just a thought.  And the reason for cancelling the booked shore excursions is because now they will be pricier than they were if docked in Stavanger.  

Edited March 5, 2023 by Skicruiser55

[Turtles06]

17 minutes ago, Skicruiser55 said:

I have to wonder if the reason they aren’t sending this change out quickly is because it’s so close to Stavanger that it’s still “considered” Stavanger?  Just a thought.  And the reason for cancelling the booked shore excursions is because now they will be pricier than they were if docked in Stavanger.  

 

Except they haven't cancelled the booked shorex for everyone on board on July 13, they only seem to have done that for someone booked on the July 1-15 voyage.  Those of us booked on the July 1-22 voyage can still buy the very same shorex that was cancelled.  (In fact, I did so, as a test.  Maybe HAL will get around to cancelling it for me and tell me there's been an itinerary change.  😂) 

 

 

 

[Skicruiser55]

Just now, Turtles06 said:

 

Except they haven't cancelled the booked shorex for everyone on board on July 13, they only seem to have done that for someone booked on the July 1-15 voyage.  Those of us booked on the July 1-22 voyage can still buy the very same shorex that was cancelled.  (In fact, I did so, as a test.  Maybe HAL will get around to cancelling it for me and tell me there's been an itinerary change.  😂) 

 

 

 

Oh didn’t realize that. Hopefully we’ll get more info this week.  

[whogo]

I don't find anything online about Sandnes, Norway cruise facilities. Will you be tendering instead of docking there?

[fusion927]

Gets even more interesting.  If you go to the Stavanger port website (https://www.stavangerhavn.no/en/maritim/cruise/), the only HAL ship listed for the month of July, 2023 is the Rotterdam on 7/13.  

 

We are on the Nieuw Statendam, whose itinerary shows we will are supposed to be there on 7/23.  And we just booked a private excursion two days ago!

 

Time will tell... 

[Turtles06]

51 minutes ago, whogo said:

I don't find anything online about Sandnes, Norway cruise facilities. Will you be tendering instead of docking there?

 

The mooring plan for July 13, 2023 shows the Rotterdam docked at Somaneset, Sandnes.  

 

Scroll down on this web page to Mooring Plans, then select July and then July 13, and see page 2.  (A very interesting site, I might add!) 

 

https://www.stavangerhavn.no/en/maritim/cruise/

 

 

[Turtles06]

37 minutes ago, fusion927 said:

Gets even more interesting.  If you go to the Stavanger port website (https://www.stavangerhavn.no/en/maritim/cruise/), the only HAL ship listed for the month of July, 2023 is the Rotterdam on 7/13.  

 

We are on the Nieuw Statendam, whose itinerary shows we will are supposed to be there on 7/23.  And we just booked a private excursion two days ago!

 

Time will tell... 

 

I saw that too; the calendar is obviously wrong.

 

But for your cruise, go to the same web page to which you linked, and scroll down to "Mooring Plans."  Then click July, and go to July 23.  You will see the berthing plan showing the Nieuw Statendam docked in Stavanger on July 23, the only ship there that day.  I think you'll make it, lucky you!