Well, this is disconcerting…

[Morecruisesplz]

9 minutes ago, 1kaper said:

 

To who? 
 

If I saw anyone I would. But even if I didn’t at some point it should have been picked up. I was on 4 nights. 
 

They messed up the muster drill. A bunch of us who had watched, called and swiped are card got notices that we didn’t. I called guest services to let them know.  They didn’t care. 

Any staff. They all have radios. Agree their muster drill is too time consuming. Skip watching in your cabin and put it on the app. And closing the elevators prior to  requiring everyone to visit their station was silly.

[1kaper]

28 minutes ago, fredmdcruisers said:

Any staff. They all have radios. Agree their muster drill is too time consuming. Skip watching in your cabin and put it on the app. And closing the elevators prior to  requiring everyone to visit their station was silly.

It wasn’t that it was too long. It was that I did it all and got a notice I hadn’t. Then there was an announcement about those who got the letter but I couldn’t make out that they said. I spoke to a number of people and it was posted in a group that many of us did it correctly and got the notice. 

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

14 hours ago, fredmdcruisers said:

Like?

 

See my "Live" 4/27 Seaside "review". Various issues are scattered about there.

 

To sum it up, MSC is not hitting on all cylinders.

 

Tom

[Morecruisesplz]

9 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

See my "Live" 4/27 Seaside "review". Various issues are scattered about there.

 

To sum it up, MSC is not hitting on all cylinders.

 

Tom

No thanks. Our experience was obviously much better. What cruise line are you using for comparison? We have 45+ on Royal and we were very pleasantly surprised. Even based on complaints here and reports most were inaccurate.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

54 minutes ago, fredmdcruisers said:

No thanks. Our experience was obviously much better. What cruise line are you using for comparison? We have 45+ on Royal and we were very pleasantly surprised. Even based on complaints here and reports most were inaccurate.

 

Yep - YMMV !

 

Tom

[chengkp75]

On 5/12/2023 at 5:00 PM, fredmdcruisers said:

The problems were all resolved quickly. You have no reason to worry.

 

On 5/12/2023 at 5:01 PM, fredmdcruisers said:

Had gotten lazy. Just like any restaurant, the problems were resolved promptly. 

 

On 5/12/2023 at 5:06 PM, fredmdcruisers said:

Stop frightening people. Have you been on the ship since the report? I have and it was much cleaner than any of my other 45+ cruises. Someone listened and resolved the issues, which by the way had impacted zero customers. 

Just curious.  How much was the extra tour to see the back of house areas to determine that all problems were resolved promptly.  Even in the case of the food found out of temperature range, while that food was removed, what was the root cause for the food being out of range?  Improper storage and handling (this requires training over time), or faulty refrigeration (no mention that this was repaired).  Record keeping violations are not "resolved promptly" but require training and monitoring over time.  Complete misunderstanding of the AGE reporting process, which means it is not a "one time" problem, and again needs time and training.  In all, there are about 5-6 of the noted violations that could be seen by a passenger.  And, even when a problem is resolved at the time of the inspection, without the proper training and supervision, there is no guarantee that the issue will not happen again, perhaps as soon as the next day.

[morpheusofthesea]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

there is no guarantee that the issue will not happen again

Unfortunately there are no guarantees of passenger illness outbreaks even with 100 VSP report. We can only hope that a culture of cleanliness 'might' mitigate these occurrences.

[Morecruisesplz]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

 

Just curious.  How much was the extra tour to see the back of house areas to determine that all problems were resolved promptly.  Even in the case of the food found out of temperature range, while that food was removed, what was the root cause for the food being out of range?  Improper storage and handling (this requires training over time), or faulty refrigeration (no mention that this was repaired).  Record keeping violations are not "resolved promptly" but require training and monitoring over time.  Complete misunderstanding of the AGE reporting process, which means it is not a "one time" problem, and again needs time and training.  In all, there are about 5-6 of the noted violations that could be seen by a passenger.  And, even when a problem is resolved at the time of the inspection, without the proper training and supervision, there is no guarantee that the issue will not happen again, perhaps as soon as the next day.

Priceless. :0

[Morecruisesplz]

2 hours ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Unfortunately there are no guarantees of passenger illness outbreaks even with 100 VSP report. We can only hope that a culture of cleanliness 'might' mitigate these occurrences.

And sickness outbreaks are fairly common on ships with excellent health reports. Reports are only a snapshot in time... those MSC problems could easily and quickly been resolved. (No matter what the fear mongers on here say.)

[morpheusofthesea]

On 5/14/2023 at 2:01 PM, fredmdcruisers said:

And sickness outbreaks are fairly common on ships with excellent health reports.

Time to resurrect this thread as reports are from CDC outbreak of vomiting and diarrhea on the Holland America (100 VSP) Nieuw Amsterdam. 213 of 1970 10.8% of passengers and 4.29% of crew.

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2023/nieuw-amsterdam_5-16.html

[Morecruisesplz]

8 minutes ago, morpheusofthesea said:

Time to resurrect this thread as reports are from CDC outbreak of vomiting and diarrhea on the Holland America (100 VSP) Nieuw Amsterdam. 213 of 1970 10.8% of passengers and 4.29% of crew.

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2023/nieuw-amsterdam_5-16.html

How was their last health department cleanliness report? Must be filthy!

[gizfish]

2 hours ago, fredmdcruisers said:

How was their last health department cleanliness report? Must be filthy!

Norovirus has nothing to do with the things that resulted in such a record low score.  Flies, improper temps, even touching raw chicken and not washing won't cause or add to a noro outbreak.  I just don't get why you do not see the severity of this historical low almost unheard of score.  

[morpheusofthesea]

7 hours ago, fredmdcruisers said:

How was their last health department cleanliness report? Must be filthy!

https://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionResults.aspx

 3/23/23  97 score.

[morpheusofthesea]

4 hours ago, gizfish said:

and not washing won't cause or add to a noro outbreak. 

There are more pathogens that are spread by non washing hands.

https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/microbiolspec.IOL5-0007-2015

 

TABLE 1 Infectious pathogens and diseases of potential risk on cruise ships

Gastrointestinal infections

 Noroviral infections

 Enterotoxigenic Escherichia coli

 Salmonella gastroenteritis

 Shigella species

 Vibrio species

 Clostridium perfringens

 Campylobacter jejuni

 Staphylococcus aureus enteritis

 Cyclospora species

 Cryptosporidium species

 Trichinella spiralis

 Hepatitis E

 Hepatitis A

Respiratory infections

 Influenza (A and B)

 Rubella

 Measles

 Legionella species

 Diphtheria

Skin infections

 Varicella

 Hot tub folliculitis

 Community-acquired methicillin-resistant S. aureus folliculitis

Infections that may be acquired at ports of call

 Malaria

 Meningitis

 Yellow fever

 Typhoid

Just do not know which ones are spread by non washing of hands ?

Edited May 19, 2023 by morpheusofthesea

[KennyFla]

5 hours ago, gizfish said:

Norovirus has nothing to do with the things that resulted in such a record low score.  Flies, improper temps, even touching raw chicken and not washing won't cause or add to a noro outbreak.  I just don't get why you do not see the severity of this historical low almost unheard of score.  

Because of 2 things:

1) MSC has a history of good scores, as do most cruise lines.  There is also a lot of anecdotal evidence on these boards of the constant cleaning.  Yes, these are the public areas, but you assume the culture carries through the entire ship.

2) A deep dive into the report shows that a lot of it is nickel and dime. A guess might be that seeing the coolers not maintained at proper temp, the inspector came down on them hard.  As he/she should, that was a serious issue that could lead to food poisonings, especially items that are consumer raw.  The inspector was probably trying to get management's attention.  I'd say that it worked.

 

 

[ray98]

I have been on the Seaside this week and there is no way the food holding temp situation has been rectified.  The majority of the food is simply no where near proper serving temp on the buffet.  Strangely, even standing there while a new pan comes from the back, you will find it is also cold when it should have been directly removed from a warming cabinet. 

 

The food waste is pretty obvious.  People select what looks good and then after a couple of bites you just abandon it.

[morpheusofthesea]

9 minutes ago, ray98 said:

I have been on the Seaside this week and there is no way the food holding temp situation has been rectified.  The majority of the food is simply no where near proper serving temp on the buffet.  Strangely, even standing there while a new pan comes from the back, you will find it is also cold when it should have been directly removed from a warming cabinet. 

 

The food waste is pretty obvious.  People select what looks good and then after a couple of bites you just abandon it.

All good reasons to stay away from buffets. The smaller portions served in the MDR are less likely to give one guilt  ordering several and not finishing everyone. Besides the better handling by a waiter that depends on tips to provide a better meal time experience.

[chengkp75]

18 minutes ago, ray98 said:

Strangely, even standing there while a new pan comes from the back, you will find it is also cold when it should have been directly removed from a warming cabinet. 

This is the disturbing portion of your post.  Yes, a new pan should have come from a temperature controlled warming cabinet.  Once any item is placed on the buffet line, it is no longer under temperature control, but under time control, where everything is discarded after 4 hours outside of temperature control.  Steam or ice tables do not provide temperature control.

[ray98]

8 minutes ago, morpheusofthesea said:

All good reasons to stay away from buffets. The smaller portions served in the MDR are less likely to give one guilt  ordering several and not finishing everyone. Besides the better handling by a waiter that depends on tips to provide a better meal time experience.

Sorry....I just don't have the time to invest in that every meal.  Breakfast and lunch ran 1hr 15 minutes and dinner has been a solid 2 hours.  We had to look for other options.  I can't dedicate 5h a day sitting in the dinning room.

Edited May 19, 2023 by ray98

[morpheusofthesea]

9 minutes ago, ray98 said:

We had to look for other options. 

I suppose tipping more to get better service is not an option ?

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

Any idea if the Seaside has opened up food options again in the Sports Bar? On our 4/27 sailing, we went there for wings, but they were not serving any food (bartender said they were too short on staff).

 

Tom

[4sallypat]

How do MSC European ships fare with food safety since they will never get inspected by a US or state health dept ?

 

Being a former certified food handler when I worked as a cafe manager in Los Angeles County Health dept, I am worried the European rules don't apply on board  ???

 

 

[KennyFla]

1 hour ago, ray98 said:

I have been on the Seaside this week and there is no way the food holding temp situation has been rectified.  The majority of the food is simply no where near proper serving temp on the buffet.  Strangely, even standing there while a new pan comes from the back, you will find it is also cold when it should have been directly removed from a warming cabinet. 

 

The food waste is pretty obvious.  People select what looks good and then after a couple of bites you just abandon it.

The issue in the report was the temp in the coolers, not on the serving line.  A tray of food that is supposed to be hot, not being held to temp before being put out is a major violation.  There was no mention of this in the report.  

 

Maybe things have deteriorated even more on the ship since the report.  If that's the case, somebody is in big trouble.

 

Also, @chengkp75, I was under the understanding temps were checked on serving lines to keep out of the growth zones.  I could be wrong, the four hours you mentioned I always understood to be  for room temperature.

Edited May 19, 2023 by KennyFla

[1kaper]

55 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

Any idea if the Seaside has opened up food options again in the Sports Bar? On our 4/27 sailing, we went there for wings, but they were not serving any food (bartender said they were too short on staff).

 

Tom

 

We stopped in for a drink there last week and a couple was eating nachos and wings that definitely didn’t come from the buffet 

[skipsaur]

11 minutes ago, 1kaper said:

 

We stopped in for a drink there last week and a couple was eating nachos and wings that definitely didn’t come from the buffet 

 

There's a place to get wings on MSC? 😯 Wings are one of our favorite parts of cruising with NCL.

 

Are these included free or extra? I assume from your comment they're not typically available at the buffet?