Why haven't daily gratuities gone down?

[Hoopster95]

5 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

$40k to $55k a year! Room, meals, and transportation included! Cost of living in their home country half or more compared to here. Average yearly salary a 3rd or a 4th of here! And we are still referring to these people as "those poor underpaid people"? $35k to $55k USD per year makes them no less paid then people in this country. Who I might add have a much higher cost of living. In their youcalown countries this money per year is fantastic.  Why are we endlessly worry about these folks? Feel guilty much 

I demand you take 10 of your closest family, go live in the Philippines or Bangladesh full time, only you out of the ten have a job. You work for the entire family. 
 

Oh, and by the way, “work” Means you work for 7 months every single day without a single day off, 10-12 hours per day. You don’t get to go home and see your family each night or sleep in your own bed.
 

As I said in a previous post, there sure are thousands of Americans lining up in Miami at the cruise line head office looking for a Windjammer job…. NOT. If these jobs were so lucrative, paying for room and board and travelling the world, why is that?

[Hoopster95]

5 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

So if you tip cash, you know where it went. 

This is incorrect. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don’t. This is ship dependant.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Hoopster95 said:

You’re too intelligent not to have thought of this, so I hope not to Insult… just wondering if

you factored in the WJ busperson cleaning plates off tables that do not receive a direct tip from an 18% mandatory bill (ie. UDP or beverage package)…. How do they get their gratuities “supplemented” when cruise lines underpay them? How about other “behind the scenes” staff (cooks, etc?)

 

The subject of this thread was cabin attendants, particularly in light of dropping service to once a day.

 

As you note there are other positions that benefit from the DSC.  I think people who remove the DSC do them a great injustice as there is no way to manually provide a cash tip to everyone who benefits from the DSC. 

 

I agree the DSC schema is misleading and it isn't very transparent to guests but it is what it is.  That is one of the reasons why I don't remove the DSC.  Despite not liking it or fully understanding all of it, I believe the safest course of action without hurting crew is let it be.

[Hoopster95]

5 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

The other thing I don't get is people who asks these workers about there pay? Would they ask an employee of any business they go into on land? I tip in restaurants at home but would never ask about salary etc. Just because I tip and purchase food doesn't give me the right to stick my nose in.

All of us know exactly what they get paid… minimum wage. There’s no question.

On the cruise lines, lots of questions and in my opinion lots of misrepresentation by the cruise

lines.

[not-enough-cruising]

5 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

I demand you take 10 of your closest family, go live in the Philippines or Bangladesh full time, only you out of the ten have a job. You work for the entire family. 
 

Oh, and by the way, “work” Means you work for 7 months every single day without a single day off, 10-12 hours per day. You don’t get to go home and see your family each night or sleep in your own bed.
 

As I said in a previous post, there sure are thousands of Americans lining up in Miami at the cruise line head office looking for a Windjammer job…. NOT. If these jobs were so lucrative, paying for room and board and travelling the world, why is that?

You are painting the entire world with the same economic brush, you can't do that.

 

Let me put it to you in a more realistic way.

 

You are offered to go away and work for 7 months, in exchange you will be paid room and board PLUS three times the average annual wage you could ever think to earn if you stayed home.  Do you take it?

 

That is the real world scenario.

Edited May 13, 2023 by not-enough-cruising

[Hoopster95]

4 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

I agree the DSC schema is misleading and it isn't very transparent to guests but it is what it is.  That is one of the reasons why I don't remove the DSC.  Despite not liking it or fully understanding all of it, I believe the safest course of action without hurting crew is let it be.

+1 … especially the last sentence.

[Hoopster95]

6 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You are painting the entire world with the same economic brush, you can't do that.

 

Let me put it to you in a more realistic way.

 

You are offered to go away and work for 7 months, in exchange you will be paid room and board PLUS three times the average annual wage you could ever think to earn if you stayed home.  Do you take it?

 

That is the real world scenario.

Excellent! Fully agreed. However this was a reply to the other poster who is comparing an American worker, with an American

lifestyle and American expenses… same as I am. 
 

In the end, market forces as always determine the actual truth. If Royal actually pays their stateroom Attendants $35k-$45K then why are there not thousands in line in Miami trying to get such a lucrative job? Thousands???… how about one American in line. There isn’t because the job does not pay what is being claimed here.

 

Market forces will also determine if they change anything. If 50,000 cruisers per week can magically come Together… every single week…. And remove gratuities on every single sailing, then of course Royal will notice and make a change. That’s not happening… so I don’t wish to hurt those employees on board by removing the auto-gratuities. Those that remove 100% hurt those that they do not see.

[not-enough-cruising]

6 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

Excellent! Fully agreed. However this was a reply to the other poster who is comparing an American worker, with an American

lifestyle and American expenses… same as I am. 
 

In the end, market forces as always determine the actual truth. If Royal actually pays their stateroom Attendants $35k-$45K then why are there not thousands in line in Miami trying to get such a lucrative job? Thousands???… how about one American in line. There isn’t because the job does not pay what is being claimed here.

 

Market forces will also determine if they change anything. If 50,000 cruisers per week can magically come Together… every single week…. And remove gratuities on every single sailing, then of course Royal will notice and make a change. That’s not happening… so I don’t wish to hurt those employees on board by removing the auto-gratuities. Those that remove 100% hurt those that they do not see.

Gotcha, sorry I missed the context in your previous post that I quoted.

[Hoopster95]

1 minute ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Gotcha, sorry I missed the context in your previous post that I quoted.

No worries. 👍

[ReneeFLL]

6 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

So if you tip cash, you know where it went….

 

24 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

This is incorrect. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don’t. This is ship dependant.

He is correct. If you tip in cash it goes to the person you hand it to. Why would you think otherwise?

[Hoopster95]

2 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

He is correct. If you tip in cash it goes to the person you hand it to. Why would you think otherwise?

Because I’ve asked. Sometimes It’s pooled and Shared. This is first hand face to face employee information, not something”I heard”

[Ocean Boy]

55 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

 

As I said in a previous post, there sure are thousands of Americans lining up in Miami at the cruise line head office looking for a Windjammer job…. NOT. If these jobs were so lucrative, paying for room and board and travelling the world, why is that?

They may not be lining up in Miami for a Windjammer job because they are already in line at the Welfare office down the street.

[Hoopster95]

9 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

They may not be lining up in Miami for a Windjammer job because they are already in line at the Welfare office.

 

Yes!!! That’s right!

Welfare is likely better income than Royal, and you don’t have to work 304 days straight at 12 hours per day. 

[Ocean Boy]

Just now, Hoopster95 said:

 

Yes!!! That’s right!

Welfare is likely better income than Royal, and you don’t have to work 304 days straight at 12 hours per day. 

You don't have to work at all if you play your cards right.

[Mum2Mercury]

11 hours ago, PWP-001 said:

... -beds are left unmade all day,

-the fare-paying guest #3 in a room either has to make up their sofa bed or put it away themself,

-guests can now return at night to a dark room and dirty bathroom if they showered before dinner,

-guests are cleaning their own balcony windows.  "Windows:  are dirty are you?" ... 

These are the things that concern me!  Well, mostly ... I don't mind walking into a dark room, as I understand how light switches work, and I don't really believe guests are cleaning balcony windows.  

 

But, yes, I do want my bed made in the morning, and I do want my room "refreshed" in the evening.  On my upcoming cruise where our adult daughter is coming with us, I do want someone to pull out /put away the sofa bed.  

 

We JUST had an increase in tips, now we getting less for that increased amount!  

7 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

... Why are we endlessly worry about these folks? Feel guilty much cruise travelers?

Speaking only for myself, I always strive to "do the right thing", and since tips are considered a part of their compensation, I want to be fair.  Zero guilt.  

7 hours ago, twangster said:

... If I have made any mistakes or bad assumptions please correct me.  

I think your math adds up, but it is based upon multiple assumptions.  

7 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

So if you tip cash, you know where it went ...

And you don't know who you skipped.  

 

I agree the system needs a reboot, but I'm not willing to hurt people behind the scenes until that happens.

7 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

Royal is skimming off the top of the auto grats.

Source? 

7 hours ago, twangster said:

... There is no free lunch, not even in the Windjammer ...

I'm not looking for free.  I'm looking for fair, and the recent increase in cost paired with the decrease in service isn't fair.  

6 hours ago, twangster said:

Personally I wish the government would or could force all cruise lines to include it ... 

Which government would do this?  

2 hours ago, cruiseboy89130 said:

Just forget about the $ amounts - the whole grat game is a scam - some $ stays with the cruise line not all is distributed!

Source?  

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

... Let me put it to you in a more realistic way.

 

You are offered to go away and work for 7 months, in exchange you will be paid room and board PLUS three times the average annual wage you could ever think to earn if you stayed home.  Do you take it?

 

That is the real world scenario.

Yes, when I was just out of high school, I'd have jumped at that deal.  

 

I remember we watched a reality show about fishing for crab (?) up in Alaska years ago, and my husband said, "If I'd known that was available when I was younger, I'd have done that for a couple years, then I'd have gone to college without killing myself at minimum wage.  

1 hour ago, ReneeFLL said:

He is correct. If you tip in cash it goes to the person you hand it to. Why would you think otherwise?

Anyone who's worked in a restaurant would know otherwise.  

[twangster]

1 minute ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Which government would do this?  

 

Exactly.  That's the problem.  

[Ret MP]

I can't say for sure about RCCL but when I used to cruise on Rustbucket Cruise Lines, the servers in the specialty restaurants worked in the Buffet also.  I always found it weird when I saw them in the Buffet cleaning tables or passing cake over the class divide.  So, the WJ, if handled the same as RBCL's buffet crew, does make a portion of its total income from gratuities, just not from the WJ, full-time.  Also, and this isn't gratuity related, I have talked to a crew member that I've seen working at a different venue that said there is a voluntary list of functions/jobs that crew can volunteer to work at to earn extra $$ when not working at their usual job.  In this case, the guy said that he worked behind the stage during shows moving props around.  He didn't say how much money he made doing that.  But, his other position wasn't a tip-producing job.  

[Goodtime Cruizin]

2 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Yes!!! That’s right!

Welfare is likely better income than Royal, and you don’t have to work 304 days straight at 12 hours per day. 

 

... and you also are no longer required to do turn down service.

This thread has come full circle. 

[ReneeFLL]

3 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

 

He is correct. If you tip in cash it goes to the person you hand it to. Why would you think otherwise?

 

1 hour ago, Mum2Mercury said:

…Anyone who's worked in a restaurant would know otherwise.  

RyderJ201 and I were discussing working on a cruise ship. Working in a restaurant and on a cruise ship are completely two different things. How can you not see that?

[Vibe]

3 hours ago, twangster said:

 

The subject of this thread was cabin attendants, particularly in light of dropping service to once a day.

 

As you note there are other positions that benefit from the DSC.  I think people who remove the DSC do them a great injustice as there is no way to manually provide a cash tip to everyone who benefits from the DSC. 

 

I agree the DSC schema is misleading and it isn't very transparent to guests but it is what it is.  That is one of the reasons why I don't remove the DSC.  Despite not liking it or fully understanding all of it, I believe the safest course of action without hurting crew is let it be.

Agree

The cruise line crew that work behind the scenes and those who work in positions that have directly contact with guests agree to their compensation based on the DSC.

When you pay the DSC you contribute to that salary plan that is acceptable to the crew when signing their employment contract.

 

 I personally don’t like that method, however I pay the DSC because I feel that I contributed to their agreed compensation and don’t want to disrupt it. If a crew member goes over and above, I give them cash as a thank you,

 

I want to enjoy my cruise and not obsess over what crew members get paid, it is not my business.  
 

When booking the cruise, I consider the cruise fare, taxes, fees and the DSC as a part of the total cost.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Vibe

[taglovestocruise]

9 hours ago, RyderJ201 said:

So if you tip cash, you know where it went. No automatic gratuities for me. And someone said automatic gratuities can be removed at any time for any reason by going to guest services. Tip cash in hand. Royal is skimming off the top of the auto grats.

When you remove the auto gratuities and tip in cash the crew member should turn the tip into the tip pool. You are screwing a lot of people with your method. 

[Ocean Boy]

5 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

Because I’ve asked. Sometimes It’s pooled and Shared. This is first hand face to face employee information, not something”I heard”

WOW.

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, taglovestocruise said:

When you remove the auto gratuities and tip in cash the crew member should turn the tip into the tip pool. You are screwing a lot of people with your method. 

The other way to look at it is RCI is screwing a lot of people with this method.

[sailor05]

I think my solution will be to have GS remove half the tip for room stewards just so they "officially" think that's what I'm doing. Then just pay that plus what I usually pay extra in cash. No harm to the steward, but maybe sends a message to Royal.