Princess or Holland America

[maggiev]

We are looking to do a Cruisetour in Alaska late August 2024.  I have narrowed it down to Grand Princess, 8/28 (Wednesday) or Neiuw Amsterdam 8/25 (Sunday).  Both have the same cruise itinerary & same amount of port times. The land is the difference.  The differences are: Princess 1 nt Mt. McKinley Lodge (Telkeetna?), Holland 1 nt Anchorage. 
       Princess Natural History Tour, Holland Wilderness Tour - I know it is shortened but still more than the Natural History

       Princess train to Mt McKinley lodge, motor coach to Denali & Fairbanks, Holland train to Anchorage, motor coach to Denali &    Fairbanks

       The price is only $100 difference.  
       The packages are a little different but they are not make or break (1 speciality dinner or 2, $100 shore excursion or 3 photos, drinks to $15 or drinks to $20 - these are irrelevant)

Does the Sunday -vs- Wednesday departure make a difference?

Any difference in the lodges - location, quality - one nicer than the other, more “Alaskan”?

I’ve never sailed on Holland but have on Princess (on the Grand in 2005) - both are older ships but have been refurbished within the last 5 years.  
I know they both do Alaska right and offer naturalists and “Alaskan” meals.

Just looking for thoughts on if one line has gone down or up substantially, if the value is better on on or the other, if the tour offerings are that different, if the whole experience is different.

 

THANKS for any & all insight (I’m sure I’ll have lots more questions as this comes together 😄)

 

Maggie
 

[CruiserBruce]

I don't think you really have any differences of note...except for the Wednesday sailing. Sailing on other than Saturday or Sunday puts you on an "opposite course" from the majority of other cruise ships. Thus ports may be a little less crowded.

[Coral]

You can probably upgrade on Princess to the longer tour but the road is still partially closed until 2026:

 

https://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/conditions.htm 

[oaktreerb]

You may not want to go to Talkeetna.  The lodge is way out of town.  Best to choose more time in Denali National Park.  You need two nights in Denali.  

The train between Anchorage and Denali is nice, the bus is best between Denali and Fairbanks.

[xlxo]

Demographics can be a deciding factor...

• Holland America for 50 plus
• Princess for 40 plus and families

 

Look closely at this satellite image.  Both Holland America and Princess are owned by Carnival.  The HAL McKinely Chalet Resort and the Denali Princess Wilderness Lodge are just 0.2 miles or a 4 min walk apart.

 

Personally I like the Neiuw Amsterdam more.

 

Good Luck in your research...

• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLJEnUZFhRI
• https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuiHjaYuKZU

 

I hope to visit both lodges one day.

[Coral]

8 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

You may not want to go to Talkeetna.  The lodge is way out of town.  Best to choose more time in Denali National Park.  You need two nights in Denali.  

The train between Anchorage and Denali is nice, the bus is best between Denali and Fairbanks.

I would be hesitant to spend any time in Denali until the road opens farther.

[oaktreerb]

3 hours ago, Coral said:

I would be hesitant to spend any time in Denali until the road opens farther.

People are still seeing bears, moose, etc. on the shortened TWT.  I’ve taken the Natural History Tour and enjoyed it on a very rainy day (and saw 2 moose close up on the road and some ptarmigan).  The dog kennels are open.  The park headquarters is still offering programs and hikes.  You can still take sightseeing flights.  

[Coral]

24 minutes ago, oaktreerb said:

People are still seeing bears, moose, etc. on the shortened TWT.  I’ve taken the Natural History Tour and enjoyed it on a very rainy day (and saw 2 moose close up on the road and some ptarmigan).  The dog kennels are open.  The park headquarters is still offering programs and hikes.  You can still take sightseeing flights.  

To each their own. I have seen plenty of wild life not at Denali.

 

If one was going to do a once in a lifetime tour, I would post pone it.

[Aquahound]

18 hours ago, maggiev said:

I know they both do Alaska right and offer naturalists and “Alaskan” meals.

Just looking for thoughts on if one line has gone down or up substantially, if the value is better on on or the other, if the tour offerings are that different, if the whole experience is different.

 

THANKS for any & all insight (I’m sure I’ll have lots more questions as this comes together 😄)

 

 

Regarding itineraries, I'd say those are 50/50.  Both are great.

 

Getting into the cruise lines/ships.....

 

Advantage Nieuw Amsterdam for the overall comfort.  Standard cabins are larger.  There is a great viewing lounge at the top, front of the ship called the Crow's Nest.  Grand has nothing like it.  Grand used to have a similar lounge aft, but they cut it off.  Nieuw Amsterdam is also much less crowded feeling than Grand.  The Grand Class of ships are notoriously crowded feeling.  

 

I think the only advantage to Grand would be the entertainment.  Princess blows Holland America away with live entertainment.  

 

So all in all, I would pick NA over Grand.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Aquahound

[Coral]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

 

Advantage Nieuw Amsterdam for the overall comfort.  Standard cabins are larger.  There is a great viewing lounge at the top, front of the ship called the Crow's Nest.  Grand has nothing like it.  Grand used to have a similar lounge aft, but they cut it off.  Nieuw Amsterdam is also much less crowded feeling than Grand.  The Grand Class of ships are notoriously crowded feeling.  

I don't find the Grand crowded. It is the Caribbean, Crown, Ruby and Emerald where they added an extra deck that makes them crowded (extra 500 passengers).

 

We just had the best enrichment speakers on the Crown Princess recently. We also had more enrichment speakers than any other ship in Alaska at the time (one person is getting off for Cunard soon so that distinguish will go away). I don't know how good the speakers are on HAL in Alaska. I assume just as good?

[maggiev]

10 hours ago, Coral said:

To each their own. I have seen plenty of wild life not at Denali.

 

If one was going to do a once in a lifetime tour, I would post pone it.

@Coral the problem with postponing is that life happens & gets in the way.  We know we can go in 2024 & are sticking to it.  I do no want to have something come up in ‘25 or ‘26 that prevents the trip.  We know Denali will not be perfect but when it first reopens it will be packed.

[maggiev]

23 hours ago, oaktreerb said:

You may not want to go to Talkeetna.  The lodge is way out of town.  Best to choose more time in Denali National Park.  You need two nights in Denali.  

The train between Anchorage and Denali is nice, the bus is best between Denali and Fairbanks.

Both offer 2 nights in Denali - that is a must for us.  Not sure which hotels are closer or more “Alaskan”

[Northern Aurora]

1 hour ago, maggiev said:

Both offer 2 nights in Denali - that is a must for us.  Not sure which hotels are closer or more “Alaskan”

 

Somehow I am confused about the question.   I have read the entire thread, and which hotels are you asking as being the most "Alaskan?"  And which hotels are closer to what?  We have stayed at the McKinley View Princess, Denali Princess and McKinley Chalets.   Let me know and I can offer opinions.

[oaktreerb]

17 hours ago, maggiev said:

Both offer 2 nights in Denali - that is a must for us.  Not sure which hotels are closer or more “Alaskan”

The McKinley Chalet resort has a variety of accommodations from two room cabin structures, to more modern multistory hotel, to an upsell for the newest family type hotel.  The Chalets are a Holland America property with busses running all day and evening long through the property to pick up passengers to transport them to the upper level entry or Karstens central dining, shops, and community area. It’s kind of like a camp atmosphere.  You can walk to all venues if you prefer.  You should be able to find a description on the HAL website.   We have always just been assigned to a room/cabin.  No choice unless you choose the upsell.  On the bus you will be given your room key and dropped of at your accommodations when you arrive.  There is no check in necessary.  Your luggage will be delivered to your room.  

 

A short walk from the Chalets is the Denali Princess Lodge which has a lovely and scenic entry area and offers places to shop and eat.  I have walked the property, shopped and had breakfast and  dinner there but have not stayed at the lodge.  Princess and HAL work together (both owned by Carnival) so they coordinate some transportation services and guest services.  

 

There is a free bus that runs between the lodges and to the Denali National Park headquarters all day long.  

 

The Chalets are probably the most Alaskan, especially if you stay in the cabins.  HAL bought the cabins from the National Park Service years ago and has expanded the campus through the years.

 

 

[maggiev]

22 hours ago, Northern Aurora said:

 

Somehow I am confused about the question.   I have read the entire thread, and which hotels are you asking as being the most "Alaskan?"  And which hotels are closer to what?  We have stayed at the McKinley View Princess, Denali Princess and McKinley Chalets.   Let me know and I can offer opinions.

NorthernAurora I’m saying — which company offers a hotel that feels more “Alaskan” as in A Holiday Inn is a Holiday Inn but some hotels give more of a local flair than others. Is one in a better location than the other, one closer to “things” than the others?  I know lot of people on this thread have sailed/toured with both companies so they may have some insight - likes/dislikes 

[Northern Aurora]

Both the McKinley Chalets and the Denali Princess are very comparable.  Both are decorated in "north country lodge" decor with lots of photos/prints of Denali itself, moose, bears and so forth.  I find that both feel rather sterile.  They are also very similar in that the bulk of the rooms are in two story individual lodges (generally no elevator) spread out through the property.  Both over look the Nenana River.  Restaurant quality is generally very similar with multiple options.  Both are only open during the summer and are designed to be closed during the winter (ie, water systems are drained).  We have stayed in two room hotel rooms at the Chalets but only one room hotel rooms at the Princess Denali.  Both are located across from the "glitter gulch" development on the other side of the George Parks Hwy.  It is very easy and quick to walk from the Chalets to the Princess.  The front desks of each property is similar with possibly more seating at the Princess.  Both are similar in age.  They are very similar in quality.  I would not characterize one as being more "Alaskan" than the other.  I don't have a preference for one over the other.

 

The Chalets were not purchased from the NPS.  The former owner is Aramark, which is a NPS concessionaire.

 

The McKinley View Princess is essentially the same.

 

 

[JerseyExplora]

I'm a little bit confused on where the train rides are starting, so it's hard to know how long they are or what part of the state they are covering.

 

I did a cruise tour with Princess. I started in Anchorage. Mine was motor coach from Anchorage to McKinley and from McKinley to Denali Wilderness Lodge. Then a train ride from Denali Wilderness to Whittier where we boarded the Grand. 

 

I enjoyed the motor coaches more than I thought I would. They had great views of some wildlife and it was nice to have narration from the driver. The train was still the highlight. I was a very long ride, but there was foodservice and the ability to walk around the train to get different views, fresh air on some outdoor platforms, and just stretch out. I do think the train takes longer than the comparable route by bus, so something to consider.

 

With Princess, I remember it being hard to find the times of everything before booking, but by looking at the excursion time options, I could figure out roughly when the transportation would arrive. That might be worth looking into to see if one option has you coming and going at times that make it harder to explore.

 

I liked the McKinley lodge more than I thought I would. The area has some of the best views of Denali we had all trip. Even on the train back, we got our best view of Denali on the whole ride near Talkeetna. Princess also has a cool treehouse there. It's very secluded and peaceful. We did a free nature walk and there were a few free programs throughout the day.

 

The Denali lodge is near Holland's property and a bunch of small shops and food options across the street. The property itself has a lot of beautiful scenery. I recommend looking for videos on youtubers. Some people have done videos giving you a tour of the properties and can show you the main building, restaurants, rooms, etc and help give you a better feel of all of the properties.

 

As for the Denali tours, you may want to look at a Princess package that is Denali on your own and see if you can then purchase the longer tour as an excursion. I think that's an option as well, but I'm not sure how prices compare.

 

I found the Medallion really easy to use and loved the convenience of Ocean Now, which lets you order some food items for free almost anywhere on the ship. 

 

We saw other Princess ships and Holland ships in every port. Both brands really know Alaska well and I'm sure you'll have an amazing time on ether!

[GTJ]

Just in case you were not already aware, Princess Cruises and Holland America Line are commonly owned; both are part of Carnival Corporation. The ground tour business of both brands is commonly operated as HAP Alaska ("HAP" being the acronym for Holland America Princess). Most of the elements of their ground tours are identical (save, perhaps, how the exterior of some motorcoaches and railcars might be painted). That said, there are some differences as duly noted. Most notably, Princess Cruises, on Saturdays and alternate Wednesdays, uses the Alaska Railroad chartered train between Whittier and McKinley, whereas Holland America Line, on Sundays, uses the same train between Whittier and Anchorage. Thus, the primary difference is whether you have a hotel night outside Talkeetna (near the McKinley train station) with Princess Cruises, or a night in Anchorage with Holland America Line. Do you want to be at a remote hotel far away from anything, or do you want a hotel in the center of a city? This is where I would make my decision.

 

The differences at Denali are minimal and superficial. Both hotels are operated by the company, and are going to have the same quality of service. I would expect that the hotels are used interchangably when demand warrants. Moreover, both hotels handle lots of tour traffic, designed as assembly line hotels. I would be tempted to say that both have the same degree of being authentic "Alaskan" as any mass market facility can have.

 

The main difference between Wednesday and Sunday is that they are different days of the week. The various mass market cruise lines spread their arrivals fairly evenly over the course of the week, so not much a difference otherwise between a Wednesday or Sunday tour start.

[Coral]

2 hours ago, GTJ said:

Just in case you were not already aware, Princess Cruises and Holland America Line are commonly owned; both are part of Carnival Corporation. The ground tour business of both brands is commonly operated as HAP Alaska ("HAP" being the acronym for Holland America Princess). Most of the elements of their ground tours are identical (save, perhaps, how the exterior of some motorcoaches and railcars might be painted). That said, there are some differences as duly noted. Most notably, Princess Cruises, on Saturdays and alternate Wednesdays, uses the Alaska Railroad chartered train between Whittier and McKinley, whereas Holland America Line, on Sundays, uses the same train between Whittier and Anchorage. Thus, the primary difference is whether you have a hotel night outside Talkeetna (near the McKinley train station) with Princess Cruises, or a night in Anchorage with Holland America Line. Do you want to be at a remote hotel far away from anything, or do you want a hotel in the center of a city? This is where I would make my decision.

Just so you know - HAL Group (more specifically CCL) has been restructured:

 

Seatrade article

 

 

[hapster85]

On 5/25/2023 at 10:34 AM, Coral said:

To each their own. I have seen plenty of wild life not at Denali.

 

If one was going to do a once in a lifetime tour, I would post pone it.

I don't believe the OP said this will be a once in a lifetime trip. Lots of people return to Alaska again and again. We're just over two weeks from our fourth trip up there. We had a great time last year on the shortened Tundra Wilderness Tour. Just doing the cruise this year, but looking forward to returning again someday. 

[GTJ]

9 hours ago, Coral said:

HAL Group (more specifically CCL) has been restructured: Seatrade article

Interesting news article outlining management movements at Carnival Corporation, though I am not completely persuaded that is much more than rearranging the deck chairs by the new corporate CEO. I previously worked as a corporate executive with a large primarily-transportation organization, with multiple brands and groupings, so there is some familiar territory here. Generally, the answer is neither an entirely integrated organization nor fully autonomous divisions, but rather an in-between. For management and oversight of service operations it is usually best to have autonomous control, to hold each divisional chief accountable for operational performance. But where there are identical services being provided (including such matters as purchasing, legal counsel, security, accounting), there are both efficiencies and lowered risks with consolidation. This is what we did, and is likely best as well at Carnival. It is also important that the left hand know what the right hand is doing, even when some tasks are split among divisions. For example, in Alaska both Princess Cruises and Holland America Line are providing service, and even if each is in separate divisions, neither should be competing against each other for sales (instead they should be competing against Royal Caribbean Cruises and NCL Holdings). There is shared infrastructure in Whittier, which must be coordinated. Ground operations in Alaska include regulated motor carrier operations (through Royal Hyway Tours), which must either be conducted jointly with that carrier or face unnecessary proceedings before the Surface Transportation Board. And when negotiating with the Alaska Railroad for the carriage of private cars, a single point of contact is best. In short, HAP Alaska operations should continue as is--as I expect it to continue being--with only with sales and marketing handled by separate divisions. In the larger scheme of things, the separate divisions should not be compete against one another, or chose operating strategies that are adverse to the strategies of other divisions. By having separate reporting lines the divisional chiefs might be tempted to show off how much better they are doing compared to other divisional chiefs, so CEO Josh Weinstein needs to keep on top of things to avoid this internal squabbling possibility. I don't know all that's going on within Carnival Corporation--I am a mere shareholder and not in the C-suite--but I do know it can be complicated.

[Coral]

1 hour ago, GTJ said:

 There is shared infrastructure in Whittier, which must be coordinated. 

Not any more than what is done in Seward? Multiple lines use Seward's pier.

 

And in the past, other lines have periodically used Whittier. So the same coordination would be used if another line wants to use Whittier.

[GTJ]

3 hours ago, Coral said:

Not any more than what is done in Seward? Multiple lines use Seward's pier. And in the past, other lines have periodically used Whittier. So the same coordination would be used if another line wants to use Whittier.

No, more coordination must be done by Carnival Corporation divisions in Whittier to avoid divisions within the same organization from stepping on each other's own toes. The Princess Cruises division needs to be helpful to the Holland America Line division, and vice versa. Less effort need be expended in coordinating with outside organizations. No one at Royal Caribbean Cruises would have much concern if it stepped on the toes of NCL Holdings at Seward. And no one at Princess Cruises or Holland America Line is going to do anything helpful in coordinating with NCL Holdings as it prepares to enter Whittier. Indeed, there should be competition between separate organizations, and efforts to coordinate among them could well run afoul of antitrust law. (Where I worked, we would make certain to coordinate among all of our divisions, but we really did not care as much about coordinating with other organizations, only doing so if it were useful to the industry as a whole.)

Edited June 7, 2023 by GTJ

[Coral]

20 minutes ago, GTJ said:

No, more coordination must be done by Carnival Corporation divisions in Whittier to avoid divisions within the same organization from stepping on each other's own toes. The Princess Cruises division needs to be helpful to the Holland America Line division, and vice versa. Less effort need be expended in coordinating with outside organizations. No one at Royal Caribbean Cruises would have much concern if it stepped on the toes of NCL Holdings at Seward. And no one at Princess Cruises or Holland America Line is going to do anything helpful in coordinating with NCL Holdings as it prepares to enter Whittier. Indeed, there should be competition between separate organizations, and efforts to coordinate among them could well run afoul of antitrust law. (Where I worked, we would make certain to coordinate among all of our divisions, but we really did not care as much about coordinating with other organizations, only doing so if it were useful to the industry as a whole.)

I guess I disagree.

 

The White Pass RR is partially owned by CCL (indirectly) and all lines have access to the train. 

 

 

[wolfie11]

4 hours ago, Coral said:

Not any more than what is done in Seward? Multiple lines use Seward's pier.

 

And in the past, other lines have periodically used Whittier. So the same coordination would be used if another line wants to use Whittier.

Only Princess has used Whittier going back at least to the early 2000’s. HAL started bringing ships into Whittier recently one day a week.  I really don’t think that more than one ship a day, especially if it’s a big one, can dock there and efficiently move people and luggage in and out because of the tunnel.