Elitism by other cruise lines about Carnival?

[Stick93]

16 minutes ago, rolloman said:

So let me get this straight...a person who says they do not like Carnival... that automatically makes them a snob? Ridiculous. Carnival is a deep discount cruise line. Let there be no doubt. However, while they are lacking in several areas, they are not bad in others. What I am concerned about lately is the lack of maintenance on Carnival. For example on a recent Freedom voyage, in the buffet area, the glass was busted and they replaced with plywood over it instead of glass.  Just this past Sunday I came off the Mardi Gras, it was filthy. Carpets literally smelled like stinky feet in certain venues (theater, limelight lounge) and were clearly soiled. The chairs in the casino a good portion of them were ripped and torn. Really sad for such a new ship. You won't find that on Celebrity or Royal Caribbean. If they don't take the time or have the resources to fix the small stuff...it only makes sense they are failing in areas which are vital.  I have two more booked, both on the Vista, but after that...I am going to take a timeout and stick with Royal, Celebrity and Princess. I guess I will now be considered a snob!

Agree to disagree with people and their opinions. But you are very correct about Carnival and upkeep. 

[BlerkOne]

 

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, Tenderpaw said:

Carnival and Royal are both mass market cruise lines.  Celebrity is supposed to be a "premium" cruise line, but having sailed on all 3, its only slightly/barely more premium.  You still get cabin service twice a day and the passenger count is a bit less.  Food is the same quality as Royal and a huge step down from Celebrity's food  a few years ago.  There are jerks sailing on all 3 companies.

 

 

Having sailed on each many times, I honestly don't see Celebrity much different than Princess.  I think I would include RCI in that group too.  They can call themselves "premium" but in my view they are not in a different class. 

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, FastShip24 said:

24 million cruisers a year, you found one

Oh, there are much more than one and that cruiser in particular is a very good example. And I know this from having read a good many of his posts over the years.

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, Stick93 said:

Not sure why people get so hell bent on what others say - an opinion belongs to the person whose it is.
 

Sailing out of NY the product of Carnival is not great. The demographics are very diverse and that can be a good or a bad thing depending on how rough the crowd is. I have found that Carnival out of Florida has been a better product and in my experience have been calmer. 
Celebrities product is much different and lends itself to be a bit more snobby. People are less open to meeting other people and are more set in their ways. The ships are less dated and are nicer - at least the ones I have been 

For me is I have a choice at this point I will always chose celebrity over Carnival but would go back on Carnival if the dates work out better. You pay more for Celebrity but that okay it’s like getting a suite or an inside room - one is clearly more but goes to the same place. 
 

And of course we aren't talking about another person's opinion of a product, but another person's opinion of another person for their choice of product. I have highlighted the key word in your response. I don't care if someone chooses to look down on me for my choices, it says more about them then it does about me, but I don't want to surround myself with such people for a week. That would be a huge turn off.

 

As for you comment about Celebrity costing more, maybe. We just booked a Celebrity cruise for 2025 and when you factor in what is included in Celebrity's fare (drink package, gratuities, wifi) and add those items to the Carnival fare then Celebrity costs less for that particular cruise. Of course, if someone doesn't buy the drink package the math would be different, but one thing that I've found is that rarely is anything "always this" or "always that".

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, icft said:

I'm just amused at how the word "elitism" has become one of the most misused words.

 

Not liking something or preferring one thing over another is not elitism.

No, it's not, but as I mentioned what we are discussing goes deeper than that. Snobism and snobbery probably better capture the sense of things (although the two concepts are very closely related). 

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, FastShip24 said:

Wow    any evidence of that?

All you have to do is observe people and you'll see it for yourself. It is also something that is discussed in numerous textbooks (including textbooks on marketing). 

[sparks1093]

7 hours ago, firefly333 said:

FYI carnival does the same thing about other lines. It's both ways.

 

Carnival pax act like carnival is the best. To them I'm sure it is, but I hear it both directions. Every line the pax think is the best. I feel it both directions all the time. So does this mean carnival people are snobbish who only cruise carnival and put down rcl? Hmmm. 

While I've met many Carnival cruisers who feel that Carnival is the best I've never heard one brag about how cruising on Carnival makes them better than someone else. (I have heard a few brag about how much money they've saved, which is of course different.)

[LouChamp]

Aloha. I have been blessed to sail since the 1970s on all the major cruise lines. The demographics change from ship to ship, line to line, port to port. My opinion is that when we leave from NY, regardless of the line, I find the passenger makeup gives me a NY headache lol!  Maybe that is why my time is divided between NY and Hawaii. One extreme to another. I actually enjoy Carnival for its fun, Cunard for its elegance although the snobbery is annoying and that is from someone regularly sailing in Queens Grill. I found the most annoying passenger group on another line sailing from Hawaii to the South Pacific.  That all said it is a given that when you mention Carnival, noses turn up. I say it is a personal decision as they all have their own character. Coming from someone born and raised in Manhattan at times I annoy myself lol. But I try to maintain vacation mode everyday of my life although not always successful.  Be well everyone and smooth sailing!

[ItsADryHumor]

Look, I drive a Kia. My own boss joked about Kia, not realizing that I have one. He drives a Jeep, so if he wants to pretend that his car is somehow luxurious and/ or superior, who am I to burst his bubble? I absolutely love my Kia. It makes me happy every time I see it. 
 

It’s the same with cruise lines. We’ve cruised several of the main cruise lines. Carnival makes me happy every time I’m on one. Is every cruise perfect? Nope. But I’ve left every one with great memories and ready for the next one. 
 

I loved our Celebrity cruise. I think it was the 5th or 6th one out after cruising started back up. Everyone was thrilled to be there. Everyone was so kind to each other and the staff. Food was great. We had Captain Kate (IYKYK).
 

Were our next door neighbors eagerly engaging in activities at all hours? Sigh. Yes. And the walls were thin. But we still left with great memories and ready for the next one.
 

We choose what we focus on; ergo, that cruise made us happy. But it wasn’t superior to our Carnival ones. 
 

If someone wants to believe that their experience is somehow superior for whatever reason, who am I to correct their thinking? That’s its own form of elitism. I’m just on a cruise to have a great time. 

[Honolulu Blue]

1 hour ago, LouChamp said:

I found the most annoying passenger group on another line sailing from Hawaii to the South Pacific. 

I'm interested in taking a transpacific from Hawaii to Australia.  What was the cruise line(s) involved here?  What did they say or do that annoyed you?  Thank you in advance for your insight.

 

Sorry for the diversion.  Please continue with your discussion.

[Stick93]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

And of course we aren't talking about another person's opinion of a product, but another person's opinion of another person for their choice of product. I have highlighted the key word in your response. I don't care if someone chooses to look down on me for my choices, it says more about them then it does about me, but I don't want to surround myself with such people for a week. That would be a huge turn off.

 

As for you comment about Celebrity costing more, maybe. We just booked a Celebrity cruise for 2025 and when you factor in what is included in Celebrity's fare (drink package, gratuities, wifi) and add those items to the Carnival fare then Celebrity costs less for that particular cruise. Of course, if someone doesn't buy the drink package the math would be different, but one thing that I've found is that rarely is anything "always this" or "always that".

Welcome to cc. 
All we do here is comment about the opinions held by the people posting.  It am not sure what your first paragraph is about but it sounds nice.  
If all things are equal in price - I know what ship most people would be on… sometimes you get lucky with prices, but that is getting harder.  

[ItsADryHumor]

16 hours ago, sanger727 said:

If it makes you feel better- the Oceania crowd likes to shame the Celebrity cruisers for choosing such a mediocre cruise line. 

My mother must’ve entered the chat. 🤣 Every time we go on a cruise- you know, that we’ve worked hard for as a middle-class family- she tuts and says, “Thousands of people doesn’t sound like a vacation to me, but I’m sure you’ll have a great time.” 
 

Mom, if you want to pay the 40k it would take for us all to sail your cruise line in Europe, we would LOVE to join you. In the meantime, we will be over here, slumming it with the unwashed masses, I guess. *shrugs and bites into a Guy’s burger*

[aborgman]

17 hours ago, sanger727 said:

And for the record. Apple Iphones are better superior to other cell phone brands. Having tried both and prefering a better product doesn't make me elitist. 

 

That is kind of the elitism in question.

 

You prefer Apple - nothing wrong with that. That doesn't objectively make it "better", or "superior" - you just prefer it.

 

Chocolate isn't a better product than vanilla, some people just prefer chocolate over vanilla.

[aborgman]

23 hours ago, mz-s said:

Some people have a desire to feel superior. It's a character flaw of theirs that they shouldn't be proud of.

 

Yep...

 

...and interestingly enough, you see it in both direction - elitism and "reverse elitism".

 

[aborgman]

15 hours ago, Eli_6 said:

On some level...is any cruise line really like Walmart? 

 

 

On some level...isn't every cruise line really like Walmart? Using foreign labor and skirting US tax law to offer lower prices to Americans?

[aborgman]

13 hours ago, May1cruiser said:

 

Many of our friends are RCCL fans and always talk about CCL as "Walmart" of the seas. It gets old fast. 

 

 

I'd say being offended by being compared to Walmart is also the exact same kind of elitism.

 

 

[sparks1093]

24 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

Welcome to cc. 
All we do here is comment about the opinions held by the people posting.  It am not sure what your first paragraph is about but it sounds nice.  
If all things are equal in price - I know what ship most people would be on… sometimes you get lucky with prices, but that is getting harder.  

Thanks, been here for a while now 🙂. If you don't understand my first paragraph then you don't understand the underlying issue of the thread. C'est la vie.

[Stick93]

40 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Thanks, been here for a while now 🙂. If you don't understand my first paragraph then you don't understand the underlying issue of the thread. C'est la vie.

Elitism! 🤣 

[lindsay0526]

We are on RCI in Alaska right now and we are NOT impressed with RCI. We have cruised with both Carnival and Disney and this was our first RCI. It hasn’t t been bad, but it hasn’t been great. Entertainment has been mediocre at best (Starwater was TERRIBLE), MDR has been slow and sloppy…

 

We were sitting around talking about having better experiences on Carnival ships.

[Eli_6]

I am in the process of pricing out an Egyptian cruise right now on Celebrity because the sailing dates work with my kids' spring break dates and I am not finding the prices to be any different than the prices on Carnival in Europe.  2 adjoining balconies will run us about 6k-7k for an 11 day cruise.  Recently went on a 12 day cruise with carnival and guess what?  2 adjoining balconies were about the same price. Maybe they were $500 less but when you are talking about a trip to Europe for a family of 4, $500 won't even buy you a day of excursions. 

 

Looking at an aft balcony across from an inside room as well and, again, the price is about the same. Only thing that appears to be higher on Celebrity is the suites...although, if you look at the price of the aft corner Excel suites on the new Carnival ships, that isn't even true.  Celebrity's largest suite (which is about 2700 sq ft and I don't really think CCL has an equivalent) is the only one that is probably priced above anything Carnival offers and is about 22k for the 11 days...but only 4 people are staying in those suites so that isn't who is primarily populating Celebrity cruises.  

 

Also, my husband and I were looking at the pics of the "Celebrity Infinity" and both of us were commenting on how much it looked like the Pride and Splendor in terms of lay out, design, color, etc.  Now the Pride has some of the nakey renaissance people art going on and the Splendor has the circles, but other than that I wasn't seeing a difference. It all looks pretty dated.  I was disapointed, too, because all the tv's looked super small.  I guess you have to go on a new boat to get a decent sized t.v.  (Which, as an aside--tv's are so cheap!  Why can't they put decent sized tv's in these ships?)   I am hoping the food might be a little better, but I doubt it is going to be Rudy and Paco's or Truluck's or Taste of Texas.  And they don't have slides either...although, they do have an arcade and a kid's club which I was happy about.  (My kid's entire evaluation of cruise ships is solely based on the water slides.) 

 

Frankly, the idea that anyone going on a cruise ship would look down on anyone else is a little silly.  You aren't chartering a private yacht.  

 

[Eli_6]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

On some level...isn't every cruise line really like Walmart? Using foreign labor and skirting US tax law to offer lower prices to Americans?

Then they should all be known as floating Walmarts.

 

My impression when people refer to the "Walmart of the seas", they are referring to the crowd who cruises on Carnival and not the employees.  In other words, the argument is that the "people of Carnival" are like the people you see in the "people of Walmart" pics.  I guess not wanting to be considered a person of Walmart is a form of elitism as well. However, my point was just that presumptively one has to have at least a little bit of disposable income to be able to book a cruise so most people on a cruise are middle class.

 

Also, what is wrong with shopping at Walmart?  Do yall have something against low, low prices? 🤣

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Eli_6

[Etta1213]

"But I try to maintain vacation mode everyday of my life although not always successful."

  Great attitude (unless maybe if one is a brain surgeon)👍

Edited July 21, 2023 by Etta1213

[Etta1213]

2 hours ago, stinkyenglishteacher said:

Look, I drive a Kia. My own boss joked about Kia, not realizing that I have one. He drives a Jeep, so if he wants to pretend that his car is somehow luxurious and/ or superior, who am I to burst his bubble? I absolutely love my Kia. It makes me happy....

I'm driving my husband's 2016 Kia since he had to quit driving. I love it, but it chooses randomly to lock doors even if key in ignition, motor running; recently it locked the driver's door, not others, when I ran back in the house for something. I was told this feature can't be disabled -- I have to trade it in for new one to be able to disable locking mechanism -- 🤣

[aborgman]

18 minutes ago, Eli_6 said:

Then they should all be known as floating Walmarts.

 

My impression when people refer to the "Walmart of the seas", they are referring to the crowd who cruises on Carnival and not the employees.  In other words, the argument is that the "people of Carnival" are like the people you see in the "people of Walmart" pics.  I guess not wanting to be considered a person of Walmart is a form of elitism as well. However, my point was just that presumptively one has to have at least a little bit of disposable income to be able to book a cruise so most people on a cruise are middle class.

 

Also, what is wrong with shopping at Walmart?  Do yall have something against low, low prices? 🤣

 

 

1) They SHOULD all be known as floating Walmarts.

2) Not wanting to be considered a person of Walmart is the exact, identical, form of elitism.

 

...and most people who shop at Walmart are middle class. In fact - most people who do everything in the USA are middle class, because by definition basically 2/3 of the USA is "middle class".

 

Depending on exactly what study you look at - the average Walmart shopper has a similar household income to the average cruise ship passenger (and that is average of all lines, not just Carnival).

 

The average Walmart shopper is ~59 years old, female, married, has an undergraduate degree, and makes $80K per year.