Sad mistreatment of lounge waiters by Cunard senior management.

[deck chair]

Hello!   I am a longstanding Diamond level member with countless sailings on record with Cunard.   I have always been happy with the great service provided by the hardworking crew.  It has come to my attention by many numerous reliable sources here on  the QM2 that the gratuities that you are required to pay with drinks are no longer going to the waiters t hat provided the service.  They are going into the pockets of Cunard Line and little doubt into the pockets of the insensitive Cunard management.  Trust me:  NO way they work nearly as hard as the crew members who take care of passengers.  

 

The waiters are upset because instead of receiving the tip[s they are being compensated with a salary that for many that falls short of wheat they earned with tips.  In addition. the waiters who work the hardest and sell the  most drinks make as much as the the waiters who produce less.   I guess Cunard Line executives think that's just awesome.  I have also been told that this new practice is just an experiment by Cunard Line.  Yes, an experiment to see how much they can get away with  mistreating their waiters.  An experiment to see if they can keep this  greed without the passengers finding out.  

Unfortunately , passengers cannot remove these drink gratuities as they can with the others.  (Which I have newer done.) This is what we can do:  Complain loudly to Cunard Line especially on their Facebook page and on end of voyage passenger surveys.  Your  thoughts please.

 

Deck Chair

Edited July 23, 2023 by deck chair

[foodsvcmgr]

In the Food & Beverage industry in the US this would be illegal.

Are you sure they are not just compelling a tip pool to be divided equally regardless of individual sales?

Don’t doubt what you’ve been told but seems unlikely Cunard is keeping the money without any sort of staff distribution.

[deck chair]

21 minutes ago, foodsvcmgr said:

In the Food & Beverage industry in the US this would be illegal.

Are you sure they are not just compelling a tip pool to be divided equally regardless of individual sales?

Don’t doubt what you’ve been told but seems unlikely Cunard is keeping the money without any sort of staff distribution.

Yes, it would be illegal in the United States depending There are some restaurants in America that do pay a salary to servers in lieu of tips and the patrons are so informed.  I have been told this new Cunard experiment not a pool situation.  They are now getting a salary which falls short of what most made in tips.  

Deck chair.  

[ballroom-cruisers]

This is one reason we tip staff directly without going through the managed on board account. It is do nice to see the smiles and happiness that the direct approach gives.

[Guest SilverHengroen]

Sounds like they are following what P&O have done in offering a higher base salary and phasing out the 15% automatic service charge, though without Cunard making an official announcement it's difficult to tell exactly what change has been made. If the above is the case you're free to still tip in cash or, presumably, manually writing it on the bottom of the receipt, it just isn't added on automatically? 

[Windsurfboy]

Are you talking about wine waiters and bar staff.  They have never been part of automatic gratuities  service charge, this goes to all other hotel staff. So what you report is not a reason to stop auto gratuities if you believe the dishwasher deserves a tip as much as the waiter

 

As you have said the drinks staff including sommeliers hhistorically relied on the % added to drinks.  It is a shame this is not passed on to them, and it is dishonest to call it a service charge. As you say this would also be illegal in UK. One can only keep challenging it.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Windsurfboy

[NE John]

I hope tact any additional tip I give a Wine Som or favored waiter goes to that staff member directly, based on the info from OP. 

[exlondoner]

If they do manage to move to a system with no auto gratuities on top of the fare, and no expectation of tips, I’m sure many of us would welcome that, providing the staff don’t ultimately lose out. 

[Windsurfboy]

11 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

If they do manage to move to a system with no auto gratuities on top of the fare, and no expectation of tips, I’m sure many of us would welcome that, providing the staff don’t ultimately lose out. 

 

The sooner the better, if as you say as long as staff don't lose out.

[techteach]

I wonder about the cash tips we provide at the end of the cruise.

[foodsvcmgr]

Techteach I have heard that staff are free to keep individual cash tips as long as the passenger giving them has NOT removed the auto grat on their account.

Seems difficult for anyone to monitor and enforce but supposedly there was a lot of peer pressure and fear of job loss for non compliance.

This was not originally Cunard but may be their model.

[Guest SilverHengroen]

2 hours ago, exlondoner said:

If they do manage to move to a system with no auto gratuities on top of the fare, and no expectation of tips, I’m sure many of us would welcome that, providing the staff don’t ultimately lose out. 

The daily gratuities are different to what is being talked about here (as far as I can tell) - this seems to be about the 15% which is automatically added on to your bill every time you order a drink in a bar or lounge. If the staff are receiving a higher base wage and you are still presented the slip to add a discretionary extra for excellent service this sounds more ideal to me, though if OP is to be believed the staff don't prefer doing it this way. 

 

As to Cunard's motivations, I don't see how it benefits their bottom line, unless they sell more drinks when there's suddenly not 15% extra added on to your bill each time?

 

As for the daily gratuities themselves, P&O removed them a few years back (now included in the fare upfront) and it's not common on other UK based lines, so CUK may be experimenting with moving Cunard to be more in line with its stablemate re paying staff's wages upfront or after the fact. 

[Windsurfboy]

1 minute ago, SilverHengroen said:

 

 

As to Cunard's motivations, I don't see how it benefits their bottom line, unless they sell more drinks when there's suddenly not 15% extra added on to your bill each time?

 

 

 

That is the issue the passengers still get 15% added on , but it doesn't go to waiters.

 

It would be more transparent if 15% was added to price lists. 

[Winifred 22]

21 minutes ago, foodsvcmgr said:

Techteach I have heard that staff are free to keep individual cash tips as long as the passenger giving them has NOT removed the auto grat on their account.

Seems difficult for anyone to monitor and enforce but supposedly there was a lot of peer pressure and fear of job loss for non compliance.

This was not originally Cunard but may be their model.

How do they who has removed them and who knows who has been tipped? I can’t believe the purser’s  office has time to investigate those who removed gratuities  and then check who they may have interacted with a given a cash tip too. Another thread on here confirmed categorically the crew had no access to information regarding the removal of gratuities. I never remove mine and still tip cabin steward and wait staff cash as an extra. I think there is a lot of speculation here  and little hard facts for my liking. 

[alc13]

It does seem that Cunard is playing a short game here if they're not compensating the bar waitstaff sufficiently to make up the 15% difference.  Because unhappy staff either leave or become visibly disgruntled, which makes itself known in customer satisfaction surveys.  

[Guest SilverHengroen]

2 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

That is the issue the passengers still get 15% added on , but it doesn't go to waiters.

 

It would be more transparent if 15% was added to price lists. 

I see, if that is the case then that could be seen as disingenuous, considering the website says this charge is shared amongst the beverage team. We'd have to be certain this is how Cunard want to operate permanently before condemning them over it though. This could be a transitory measure until they update drinks prices and remove the 15% charge as you suggest. 

[ratflinger]

Sounds more like a waiter is trying to pump his tips.

[Victoria2]

13 hours ago, Winifred 22 said:

How do they who has removed them and who knows who has been tipped? I can’t believe the purser’s  office has time to investigate those who removed gratuities  and then check who they may have interacted with a given a cash tip too. Another thread on here confirmed categorically the crew had no access to information regarding the removal of gratuities. I never remove mine and still tip cabin steward and wait staff cash as an extra. I think there is a lot of speculation here  and little hard facts for my liking. 

I was told exactly the same as Bellboy, by a senior member of staff, years ago. Admittedly, that WAS years ago and I will try and find out but I have no reason to think things have changed.
 

Maybe Bellboy can clear this up for us. Again.

 

 I am with you on all your post.

[Windsurfboy]

You will perhaps remember before covid a thread that pointed out for the the Germans  Cunard were not allowed to automatically add gratuities,  they had to put a letter in their cabin inviting them if they wanted to subscribe to automatic gratuities.  I forget the exact wording, it was a nicely written invitation to use this method to ensure all the staff were included.

 

I commented on the thread that I thought it wrong that us Brits were forced to opt out. Not that I ever did. So on my next cruise to South Africa just before covid, I  went to Pursers office opted out but asked for the nice German letter to opt back in just to make a point of principle.  They understood but didn't have the invitation letter to hand said they find it. They did find it a few days later and I opted back in, my argument was with Cunard not the hard working staff. This took a few days before we opted back in for whole trip

 

In the meantime we'd opted for a table of 6, we were on one of the fixed big tables for 8, but ended up with only 4 , two lovely ladies. This massive table didn't work so I  asked Maitre D (QG) if the 4 of us could move to a table of 4. He said something like I'll try to  make space, but might mean moving people along one and then mumbled someting like they've paid their tips. So the Maitre D knows who opts out.

[PORT ROYAL]

2 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

So the Maitre D knows who opts out.

They also know the fare paid… C, S or ES

Some also may hold a notebook on what gratuities previously received from which pax.

Also, notated feedback from waitstaff etc on guests, known as “in the file”.

Edited July 24, 2023 by PORT ROYAL
In the file

[Victoria2]

27 minutes ago, PORT ROYAL said:

They also know the fare paid… C, S or ES

Some also may hold a notebook on what gratuities previously received from which pax.

Also, notated feedback from waitstaff etc on guests, known as “in the file”.

I certainly believe feedback from staff with regards to guests is common. I can, to a certain extent believe fare paid might be knowledge shared to M'ds as it could affect pecking order of table positions. It also wouldn’t surprise me if previous offered grats. were remembered because that’s part of human nature.

However, I am still sceptical information re who has left the auto grats. on the bill and who hasn’t is shared beyond accounts.

[Solent Richard]

On 7/23/2023 at 3:43 PM, exlondoner said:

If they do manage to move to a system with no auto gratuities on top of the fare, and no expectation of tips, I’m sure many of us would welcome that, providing the staff don’t ultimately lose out. 

It works exceedingly well since it was introduced on P&O.

[fourmile.ranch]

Just boarded QE and can confirm this is correct. According to our bartender the service charge is collected and then shared throughout the staff in the same manner automatic gratuities. Cash tips are kept by the person to whom it is given.

[Host Hattie]

Seems reasonable to me. 

[Winifred 22]

1 hour ago, fourmile.ranch said:

Just boarded QE and can confirm this is correct. According to our bartender the service charge is collected and then shared throughout the staff in the same manner automatic gratuities. Cash tips are kept by the person to whom it is given.

I always assumed that was the case. Thanks for confirming.