Now $1.50 for gelato in Windjammer

[Engineroom Snipe]

2 hours ago, ONECRUISER said:

I remember 50 yrs ago there was lot of pay Toilets like at Airports, Dad use to make me crawl under...

Yes,

 

It was late 1960's, many larger discount stores, (Garwood, at Race Track Circle, in Cherry Hill, NJ) did the same thing at the time. I remember it so many years ago because I had to do the same thing you did. I hope we do not go back to those times again.

 

🫣

[HappyTexan44]

8 hours ago, cynt said:

I don't consider $1.50 nickel and diming. I mean it's a $1.50. 

 

Think about the definition of nickel and diming.   After all, it isn't "ten dollars and twenty dollars."   It means getting small amounts here and there.  

 

[Ret MP]

I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here.  It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50.  It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare.  Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships.  

 

At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget.  If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there.  But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years).  I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included.  It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. 

 

 

 

[time4u2go]

33 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here.  It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50.  It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare.  Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships.  

 

At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget.  If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there.  But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years).  I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included.  It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. 

 

 

 

Excellent post!  I think some posters just don't see the big picture.  The cruise experience is slowly being chipped away, little by little.

[RD64]

39 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here.  It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50.  It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare.  Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships.  

 

At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget.  If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there.  But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years).  I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included.  It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. 

 

 

 

$100 for a hotel room? May I ask where in the world this is possible? $100 won’t even buy you a spot under the canopy at any hotel in Vancouver.

[Engineroom Snipe]

35 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here.  It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50.  It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare.  Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships.  

 

At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget.  If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there.  But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years).  I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included.  It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. 

 

 

 

 

For 2023, the CEO thinks things are great and going in the proper direction.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/royal-caribbean-just-raised-earnings-guidance-for-the-second-time-this-year-heres-why-im-bullish-on-the-stock/ar-AA1fucMR

 

One especially pertinent quote to the small add-ons addressed in this economic post:

 

Despite an encouraging increase in onboard guest expenditure, the amount passengers spent on experiences aboard Royal Caribbean cruises "remains lower than the long-term trend line," according to Liberty. (CEO Jason Liberty)

 

They need to get more money out of the passenger during the cruise using any method possible. RCI is already charging more for the items that have an additional fee. The only way to make more money is to start charging for items that were previously included in the cruise price.

 

Supply and demand. I cannot wait until 2025. This is going to get interesting.

[Ret MP]

13 minutes ago, RD64 said:

$100 for a hotel room? May I ask where in the world this is possible? $100 won’t even buy you a spot under the canopy at any hotel in Vancouver.

We just stayed in a Marriott Court Yard in Gulfport, MS for $89.00 a night.  Of course, you have to use all available discounts (veterans for example).  But, if you shop, you will find good deals and it doesn't HAVE to be at budget hotels either.  Timing and research is everything.

[Billy Baltic]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

I think far too many folks are misinterpreting what is being said here.  It isn't actually about a single item that costs $1.50.  It's about far too many things that are happening with the cruise industry, services being eliminated/reduced, prices going up way above the inflation rate, and upcharges for items that are/were traditionally included in the cruise fare.  Also, there have been some threads here and elsewhere that are complaining about the maintenance/appearance of some of the RCCL, et al, ships.  

 

At least for me, my comments are about trying to preserve the traditional cruise experience, what made it special, and what made it affordable for those who live on a shoestring budget.  If I want to pay for this, that, or the other thing, I'd stay in a hotel, get a once-a-day room cleaning/refreshing, and pay over $100.00 (at an acceptable budget hotel) a night for a bed w/toilet/shower/sink/crappy coffee maker with limited supplies, and have to call for food delivery or drive to the restaurant of choice that you definitely have to pay for.  Don't get me wrong, I don't want RCCL to become the "Walmart" of cruise lines (no, I don't have a problem with Walmart, I shop there.  But, I have eyes and see the decline over the years).  I honestly don't believe it ever was considered that. But, I think they are pushing far too many folks out of the cruise market by raising the cost of fares and amenities that were once included.  It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. 

 

 

 

Couldn’t have said it better. 
 

👏🏻 

[HappyTexan44]

1 hour ago, Ret MP said:

It's getting to the point that only the upper middle class will be able to afford even the lowest fare prices with far reduced services and included amenities. 

 

And it used to be that only the upper middle class cruised.  I grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood, and while some parents cruised it was a Big Deal and certainly not something they did every year.  I never knew a kid that was taken along.   But, there seems to be a lot more cruise ships now.    They'll have empty spaces unless they expand the market some other way.   Which means prices will have to come down.  

An interesting idea might be for them to say, "The price is $$$ and it comes with $$ spending credits."  Sort of like cheap comedy club tickets that came with a two drink minimum. 
 

 

 

[Ret MP]

27 minutes ago, HappyTexan44 said:

 

And it used to be that only the upper middle class cruised.  

Yep, the bad old days!  It turned around but now trying to move back again, it seems.

[goldfish65]

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

 

 

Supply and demand. I cannot wait until 2025. This is going to get interesting.

how will things be different in 2025?

[Engineroom Snipe]

7 minutes ago, goldfish65 said:

how will things be different in 2025?

I have made comments about how a majority of repeat, regular cruisers, book years in advance.

 

I am one of those cruisers. I booked my 2023 cruises (three) around July, 2022 when the prices were half of the current 120 days before departure prices this year. In some cases these prices are almost three times more than what I paid. That is not inflation or the cost of operations. That is supply and demand, I got it.

 

I would be paying almost three time more ($3000 versus $1000) to select an interior room. My balcony rooms are a minimum of half the current prices in premium locations which I picked.

 

I booked two cruises for 2024 in September of 2022. Again, one cruise is almost 1/3 of the current asking price and the other is between 1/2 and 1/3 and these again were selected rooms.

 

This is the scenario. Regular repeat cruisers snapped up very good prices last year for reservations for 2023 and 2024. Combine this uptick in reservations with "revenge cruising vacations" where money was no object" at the end of covid situation. No vaccine requirement or testing after about December, 2022. Cruisers were informed that they had to use their future cruise credits that they might have had for two years. I believe that this year will be a banner year and next year will be a good year for RCI occupancy.

 

The current prices being offered in 2024 are substantially higher than what I have paid. Add to the continuous money saving cuts to meals and service (my opinion after thirty-five years of cruising, mostly on RCI), I am holding off on any more 2024 reservations and not making any 2025 reservations at this time.

 

RCI will only start to see people like myself disappear about February of next year (2024) because I normally would have at least three more reservations for later 2024 and 2025. They will try and hold the prices up as long as possible. If more cruisers, like myself, start doing the same thing, there is going to be a big hole in confirmed future reservations.

 

The prices will probably start coming down in 2025. RCI needs to lure those cruisers who commit in advance so they can raise prices as the cruise gets closer to embarking. This has been the cruise model, early reservations get the best price but one must commit money up-front for years to get that price and the room location of choice. I do not mind doing that but I am not committing early money on a deposit for a price I feel is not proper. I feel these prices will go down in 2025 and I have nothing to lose by waiting. If they go up from now, than I was not going to purchase them anyway. No loss. I spend the money elsewhere. I am not committing to pay existing prices for the quality of food now being offered. If you are going to offer me lower quality food offerings as part of the base price, I want a lower price than they think it is worth.

 

That is my reasoning.

 

 

[NateUpNorth]

11 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

I have made comments about how a majority of repeat, regular cruisers, book years in advance.

 

I am one of those cruisers. I booked my 2023 cruises (three) around July, 2022 when the prices were half of the current 120 days before departure prices this year. In some cases these prices are almost three times more than what I paid. That is not inflation or the cost of operations. That is supply and demand, I got it.

...............................

 

 

 Your entire post is 100% spot on.
Whilst we don't book as many as 2 or 3 a year we always book a year or more in advance.
At current prices we aren't even looking at 2024.
So eventually I believe there will be a gap where the current strategy will HAVE to be reconsidered.
Minimal long term commitments on the books and nobody paying the short term rates either.

Additionally the industry may be setting itself up for a perfect storm.
Should the greater economy experience a pullback or significant downturn in the near future they're going to need people committed to the "12 months out" vacation. As in "it's already paid for/ got a huge deposit on it, we'll go anyway but after that we're cutting back." 

It could get very interesting.

[Ret MP]

38 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

I have made comments about how a majority of repeat, regular cruisers, book years in advance.

 

I am one of those cruisers. I booked my 2023 cruises (three) around July, 2022 when the prices were half of the current 120 days before departure prices this year. In some cases these prices are almost three times more than what I paid. That is not inflation or the cost of operations. That is supply and demand, I got it.

 

I would be paying almost three time more ($3000 versus $1000) to select an interior room. My balcony rooms are a minimum of half the current prices in premium locations which I picked.

 

I booked two cruises for 2024 in September of 2022. Again, one cruise is almost 1/3 of the current asking price and the other is between 1/2 and 1/3 and these again were selected rooms.

 

This is the scenario. Regular repeat cruisers snapped up very good prices last year for reservations for 2023 and 2024. Combine this uptick in reservations with "revenge cruising vacations" where money was no object" at the end of covid situation. No vaccine requirement or testing after about December, 2022. Cruisers were informed that they had to use their future cruise credits that they might have had for two years. I believe that this year will be a banner year and next year will be a good year for RCI occupancy.

 

The current prices being offered in 2024 are substantially higher than what I have paid. Add to the continuous money saving cuts to meals and service (my opinion after thirty-five years of cruising, mostly on RCI), I am holding off on any more 2024 reservations and not making any 2025 reservations at this time.

 

RCI will only start to see people like myself disappear about February of next year (2024) because I normally would have at least three more reservations for later 2024 and 2025. They will try and hold the prices up as long as possible. If more cruisers, like myself, start doing the same thing, there is going to be a big hole in confirmed future reservations.

 

The prices will probably start coming down in 2025. RCI needs to lure those cruisers who commit in advance so they can raise prices as the cruise gets closer to embarking. This has been the cruise model, early reservations get the best price but one must commit money up-front for years to get that price and the room location of choice. I do not mind doing that but I am not committing early money on a deposit for a price I feel is not proper. I feel these prices will go down in 2025 and I have nothing to lose by waiting. If they go up from now, than I was not going to purchase them anyway. No loss. I spend the money elsewhere. I am not committing to pay existing prices for the quality of food now being offered. If you are going to offer me lower quality food offerings as part of the base price, I want a lower price than they think it is worth.

 

That is my reasoning.

 

 

Meeeee toooooo.  I book at least a year out, usually as close to 2 years out as RCCL will let me.  Other than the cruise I've got booked for Jan 2024, I don't have anything booked.  I just can't see it anymore.  It's a crying shame.  

 

Somehow I hit the submit button before I was done.  

Please, nobody get me wrong, as I've said over and over again in here, I'm a very proud capitalist, I don't begrudge any company the ability and desire to make money for themselves and/or their stockholders.  But, there is a point where they leave me in the dust.  If they can manage to survive doing what they do, more power to them.  But, if there are lots of people like me that have to go to plan B and it hurts their bottom line, eventually, they will have some decisions to make. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Ret MP

[Jerseygirl1416]

21 hours ago, mets123 said:

Dessert in the WJ have been horrible for years now. I already pass them up.

But the cookies are very good!

[bucfan2]

22 hours ago, mets123 said:

Dessert in the WJ have been horrible for years now. I already pass them up.

Thanks for your opinion.  We enjoy some of them. 

[OCSC Mike]

19 minutes ago, bucfan2 said:

Thanks for your opinion.  We enjoy some of them. 

 

Me too. Food will always be subjective. Besides the cookies, I've probably found the desserts a bit on the weaker side over the years but I can always find something.

 

Hardly ate in the WJ on Wonder in June but will be there quite a bit on my next several Wonder cruises and I'm not worried about finding dessert.

[RD64]

There is a whole untapped market of never having cruised before people out there - the people who go all out and spend on cabins, shore excursions, shopping, dining, spa, etc. The cruise lines do not necessarily want the repeat and never spend an additional dime on board crowd.

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, RD64 said:

There is a whole untapped market of never having cruised before people out there - the people who go all out and spend on cabins, shore excursions, shopping, dining, spa, etc. The cruise lines do not necessarily want the repeat and never spend an additional dime on board crowd.

There is that, that's for sure.  But the best customers are the loyal repeat customers, those that you don't have to spend tons of money to lure them into the ships.  That's why they have all the loyalty programs/award points/etc., that actually cost very little.  

[Billy Baltic]

7 minutes ago, RD64 said:

There is a whole untapped market of never having cruised before people out there - the people who go all out and spend on cabins, shore excursions, shopping, dining, spa, etc. The cruise lines do not necessarily want the repeat and never spend an additional dime on board crowd.

True but will the never cruised before ever cruise again once they experience what they pay a hefty premium for? IMO, most won’t. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

A third-rate action for a fourth-rate cruise line.  True bottom dwellers.  And we use ti like Royal.  No more.

[mets123]

1 hour ago, Jerseygirl1416 said:

But the cookies are very good!

They were good. Now they taste like hockey picks.

[mets123]

1 hour ago, bucfan2 said:

Thanks for your opinion.  We enjoy some of them. 

They used to be tasty. Now their bland and boring.

[mkmaj]

We're going on our first RC cruise in November. Booked quite a while ago at a pretty reasonable price. All of the changes since we booked are very off putting. Packages I would have purchased seem to be so over priced with diminished value that I won't bother. 

 

I know that these things are happening on all lines since Covid but I don't see nearly the amount of complaints about quality and up charges on the other lines right now. 

 

We will make the best of it and won't feel cheated for the price we paid... But I don't think we'll be back to Royal at current prices unless we find the complaints to be exaggerated and things are great onboard.

[OCSC Mike]

13 minutes ago, mkmaj said:

We will make the best of it and won't feel cheated for the price we paid... But I don't think we'll be back to Royal at current prices unless we find the complaints to be exaggerated and things are great onboard.

 

Strongly suggest you ignore negative posts and go in with an open mind.

 

I had a great time on Wonder on June, like all my cruises, and can't wait for the next 4 I have booked!

Edited August 30, 2023 by OCSC Mike