Walking sticks and P&O

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

It looks to me as if it is mandatory, however not sure how the people that dont get/ use email, maybe Moley can enlighten us.

That's a very good point.  The emails are worded very wishy washy as well.  If it is now mandatory to declare a walking stick it should say so in very clear understandable terms.

 

Something along the lines of "if any member of your party uses a walking stick for any reason it is a requirement that you please fill in the mobility form which can be found in your cruise planner."

[yorkshirephil]

27 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

That's a very good point.  The emails are worded very wishy washy as well.  If it is now mandatory to declare a walking stick it should say so in very clear understandable terms.

 

Something along the lines of "if any member of your party uses a walking stick for any reason it is a requirement that you please fill in the mobility form which can be found in your cruise planner."

I think this sort of thing is becoming typical of P&O, it is almost as if someone gets a Friday afternoon job to send out an email to all the current bookings just as they are thinking about going home, and is rushed and with little consideration of the effect it may have or the repercussions thereafter. We saw it throughout covid where emails were sent out like confetti yet the website was left with existing information for weeks on end causing no end of bad feeling. P&O just don't seem to learn and this aspect is spoiling what in my opinion is an acceptable overall product especially at cost.

[Megabear2]

38 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

I think this sort of thing is becoming typical of P&O, it is almost as if someone gets a Friday afternoon job to send out an email to all the current bookings just as they are thinking about going home, and is rushed and with little consideration of the effect it may have or the repercussions thereafter. We saw it throughout covid where emails were sent out like confetti yet the website was left with existing information for weeks on end causing no end of bad feeling. P&O just don't seem to learn and this aspect is spoiling what in my opinion is an acceptable overall product especially at cost.

Well they've managed to put my OH off. He's just told me if he's being made to feel like a burden and a danger to others he's finished with cruising.

 

He did make one point that I thought was interesting while having his angry outburst.  If, as is being suggested, slowness of returning to your cabin in an emergency is a factor, how do they deal with severely overweight people who may be far slower than a person with a walking stick.  As he said it would be illegal (and rightly so) to discriminate against a person such as this.

 

As our next cruise is on Celebrity I've had a look at their form. Not one word about walking sticks, rollators etc anywhere ...

CEL-Special-Needs-Form-Revised-062221(1).pdf

Edited November 14, 2023 by Megabear2

[david63]

One point that I cannot see as having been mentioned in this in respect of checking in is those who have hidden disabilities and wear a Sunflower lanyard (something that P&O claim to acknowledge).

 

So under the new rules does anyone wearing a Sunflower lanyard now have to declare this in advance bearing in mind that you cannot be asked to prove that you have a hidden disability.

[Megabear2]

Just now, david63 said:

One point that I cannot see as having been mentioned in this in respect of checking in is those who have hidden disabilities and wear a Sunflower lanyard (something that P&O claim to acknowledge).

 

So under the new rules does anyone wearing a Sunflower lanyard now have to declare this in advance bearing in mind that you cannot be asked to prove that you have a hidden disability.

Unfortunately that's us. This whole fiasco started because I declared the Sunflower lanyard and explained the fibromyalgia and rare walking stick use.

[yorkshirephil]

4 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Well they've managed to put my OH off. He's just told me if he's being made to feel like a burden and a danger to others he's finished with cruising.

 

He did make one point that I thought was interesting while having his angry outburst.  If, as is being suggested, slowness of returning to your cabin in an emergency is a factor, how do they deal with severely overweight people who may be far slower than a person with a walking stick.  As he said it would be illegal (and rightly so) to discriminate against a person such as this.

 

As our next cruise is on Celebrity I've had a look at their form. Not one word about walking sticks, rollators etc anywhere ...

CEL-Special-Needs-Form-Revised-062221(1).pdf 171.03 kB · 1 download

Sadly more of this will happen as people get more disillusioned, I get the gist of the walking stick scenario and why P&O want to try and sort it out but they are making a hash of it in my opinion.

 

We recently cancelled our Azura cruise in March, more to do with my hip op and alternative opportunities. We talked it over and decided to cancel and forfeit the deposit (10%), Mrs YP asked if we would be able to use the deposit for an alternative cruise, I was sure we wouldn't as it was a saver fare moved about through covid, I did say I would ask. I then said if we can where would you like me to move it to, she has seen the new brochure while on Aurora so knows the score. Her reply was apart from the longer voyages we have booked nothing stands out. We have never felt like this before about P&O.

[Bill Y]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

In fact if I ran a poll across this website I'd be very interested to see how many people would actually think they need to fill in a mobility form for using or owning a walking stick, and yet every reply I'm given indicates under this ridiculous protocol every one of them should be doing so.

 

Utterly ridiculous in my opinion.

We are entering the reams of farce, What is a walking stick?

 

Obviously there are ones supplied by hospitals that give support and are needed, some (gentleman’s walking canes) are a fashion accessory. As mentioned before DW takes a walking pole (the type sold in Outdoor/hiking shops) on excursions that include walking, this has reduced the falls she has had on uneven surfaces in the past. This possibly contentious accessory is not used on the ship, it’s taken inboard in her suitcase. Will the suitcase be rejected by P&O security as it once was at an airport? The only time its seen on ship it when departing for an excursion, this has caused tuts in the past as it's sometime assumed that it’s going to be used to bag front seats on a coach.

[david63]

29 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

I get the gist of the walking stick scenario and why P&O want to try and sort it out but they are making a hash of it

I understand where Carnival are coming from with the walking stick issue because on more than one occasion I have heard passengers boast about only using a walking stick to get priority when embarking/disembarking.

[yorkshirephil]

2 minutes ago, david63 said:

I understand where Carnival are coming from with the walking stick issue because on more than one occasion I have heard passengers boast about only using a walking stick to get priority when embarking/disembarking.

Absolutely and I have seen the walking stick and even white stick used to queue jump on numerous occasions as per my comment 28 where I did try and add a bit of humour? Sadly it is human nature to try and gain an advantage and when you see people openly bragging about it on faceache it is small wonder. I am sure most of us have used the saying "If you can't beat them join them" but it rarely ends well and as usual the wrong people suffer the consequences especially when big companies churn out diktats so freely.

[Son of Anarchy]

A few years we were on Oceana (I think) and there was a young women on crutches.  She had lost a leg above the knee.  

 

Throughout the cruise (14 nights probably) we never once saw her in a wheelchair.  Neither did we see her use a lift.  Saw her going up and down the stairs on several occasions though.

 

I wonder how this lady and others who are mobile even though they require crutches would fare under these T&Cs?

[yorkshirephil]

9 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

A few years we were on Oceana (I think) and there was a young women on crutches.  She had lost a leg above the knee.  

 

Throughout the cruise (14 nights probably) we never once saw her in a wheelchair.  Neither did we see her use a lift.  Saw her going up and down the stairs on several occasions though.

 

I wonder how this lady and others who are mobile even though they require crutches would fare under these T&Cs?

You were not on the rescheduled Oceana 35 night cruise in 2019 by chance as we had a lady on our corridor that could be her. She was on her own too, a very pleasant lady too. I suppose she would have the option of declaring that she didn't need assistance but was taking aids. It actually looks clear if you complete the form, you don't see the first bit where I stated I would be taking a stick, but this is the completed doc

On board Needs Questionnaire Page.mhtml

[Son of Anarchy]

12 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

You were not on the rescheduled Oceana 35 night cruise in 2019 by chance as we had a lady on our corridor that could be her. She was on her own too, a very pleasant lady too. I suppose she would have the option of declaring that she didn't need assistance but was taking aids. It actually looks clear if you complete the form, you don't see the first bit where I stated I would be taking a stick, but this is the completed doc

On board Needs Questionnaire Page.mhtmlUnavailable

Wasn't on that cruise.  The woman we saw was with a chap who we assumed to be her husband/partner.  She always wore a long dress on the formal nights.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Well they've managed to put my OH off. He's just told me if he's being made to feel like a burden and a danger to others he's finished with cruising.

 

He did make one point that I thought was interesting while having his angry outburst.  If, as is being suggested, slowness of returning to your cabin in an emergency is a factor, how do they deal with severely overweight people who may be far slower than a person with a walking stick.  As he said it would be illegal (and rightly so) to discriminate against a person such as this.

 

As our next cruise is on Celebrity I've had a look at their form. Not one word about walking sticks, rollators etc anywhere ...

CEL-Special-Needs-Form-Revised-062221(1).pdf 171.03 kB · 3 downloads

I would hope that the comment about speed of return to your cabin, has been taken out of context. Because in a real emergency the lifts would be out of action and the stairs would be very crowded, and there would be very little room for those requiring an evacuation chair.  And what has become of the recomendation that if you cannot return to your cabin to collect your lifejacket, then you should go direct your muster station? Which as a wheelchair user would seem the most sensible action, and save possibly 2 long journeys in an evacuation chair, as opposed to probably one short journey to the muster station.

[Megabear2]

50 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

You were not on the rescheduled Oceana 35 night cruise in 2019 by chance as we had a lady on our corridor that could be her. She was on her own too, a very pleasant lady too. I suppose she would have the option of declaring that she didn't need assistance but was taking aids. It actually looks clear if you complete the form, you don't see the first bit where I stated I would be taking a stick, but this is the completed doc

On board Needs Questionnaire Page.mhtmlUnavailable

The form only refers to walking sticks on page 1.  Page 3 where it asks if you're bringing aids there is no specific mention of walking sticks. In fact they disappear.

 

However reading this again if you have any kind of "mobility aid" (assumedly walking sticks included) you are going to need to do a tender assessment.  This is what has caused the explosion here - my husband states it's like being asked to take a work assessment for benefits not being on a holiday, and I must confess I do rather agree.

[terrierjohn]

6 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Special assistance has been a free for all which has been abused. Overall, this is an area that P&O and Cunard are trying to improve - but the first way to do that is to understand who needs assistance and who is using for no other reason that to jump a queue.

 

A few things have happened here which has led to this situation. Let me summarise how I see it:

 

1. Over the last three years Carnival UK have built an assistance team which are working to improve the assistance needs experience but also who are working to standardise the process. Some member of this team are newer/less experienced than others.

 

2. The onboard needs questionnaire is now mandatory for anyone who needs any type of physical aid. I believe that this is being/has been put into the terms and conditions. Until then, these nudge emails are being used.

 

3. Following point 2 above, if you need a physical aid and have not declared it, you will be denied boarding with no refund/FCC etc.

 

4. There have been numerous incidents this year of people not declaring they need assistance (remember the two blind ladies who claimed to be each other's carer? multiple cases of scooters turning up and not being booked into accessible rooms etc.)

 

5. They are trying to clamp down on passengers turning up at the port, seeing the long queue and 'requiring' use of special assistance as a way of queue jumping. This is why special assistance check-in is now separate and based upon the onboard needs questionnaire being complete.

 

6. There have been two onboard incidents this year which have highlighted the need to improve processes. Britannia's encounter with a tanker proved that passengers needing assistance did not return to cabins quick enough. In an emergency scenario, the stairway guides nearest your cabin have already been told who will need assistance. When twice the number of people turn up this causes a problem. This can be managed better if people register in advance. Also the battery incident on Iona shows the need to understand how many powered devices are on board.

 

7. People are being abusive towards terminal staff and onboard staff when they don't get the preferential treatment expected. Special assistance is not preferential assistance. This is 100% unacceptable.

 

8. Disembarkation is sometimes chaos especially on the bigger ships. P&O have to specify how many special assistance staff are required from the contractor. When (and this has happened) twice the number of people turn up for special assistance disembarkation to those who have registered, the process goes out the window as not enough staff are available.

 

Turning back to the actual queries:

 

@Megabear2 Yes, they do want to know about walking sticks. If your husband may need it, just declare it on the form and don't ask for any additional help. If he can manage stairs in an emergency scenario, tick 'no assistance required'.

 

@kalos I accept your request was simple, but especially on the bigger ships where the galleys are some distance from the MDR, this becomes a difficult request to quickly fulfil. P&O's stated policy has always been that those with dietary requirements should also declare, and check the menu the day before. At which point low salt gravy should be easily sorted.

Moley, despite having completed disability questionnaires for our 2024 and 2025 cruises, I have still received these e-mails for them.  Do you know if P&O are wanting us to re-submit the forms via the on-line version, or are they happy with the existing ones?

[yorkshirephil]

2 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

The form only refers to walking sticks on page 1.  Page 3 where it asks if you're bringing aids there is no specific mention of walking sticks. In fact they disappear.

 

However reading this again if you have any kind of "mobility aid" (assumedly walking sticks included) you are going to need to do a tender assessment.  This is what has caused the explosion here - my husband states it's like being asked to take a work assessment for benefits not being on a holiday, and I must confess I do rather agree.

To me once you say you can board a tender independently that should be the end of it with no requirement to do the tender assessment. However I could be mistaken but the very point that we are discussing this and have different views speaks volumes for the questionnaire. How many people are going to be emailing and phoning P&O trying to make sure (like yourself) that they are going to be able to get on the ship. Will all P&O customer service staff even know, and then we wonder why we have to hang on the phone.

[Megabear2]

23 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

To me once you say you can board a tender independently that should be the end of it with no requirement to do the tender assessment. However I could be mistaken but the very point that we are discussing this and have different views speaks volumes for the questionnaire. How many people are going to be emailing and phoning P&O trying to make sure (like yourself) that they are going to be able to get on the ship. Will all P&O customer service staff even know, and then we wonder why we have to hang on the phone.

Unfortunately post #6 seems to indicate tender assessments are happening.  It could be that person welcomed it, my husband most certainly won't and will take it very much that he has been singled out for having an illness which he detests and exercises strenuously to alleviate symptoms of, often to excess.  It will humiliate and upset him and assumedly will happen at the start of our trip and very likely wreck his holiday.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Megabear2

[yorkshirephil]

4 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Unfortunately post #6 seems to indicate tender assessments are happening.  It could be that person welcomed it, my husband most certainly won't and will take it very much that he has been singled out for having an illness which he detests and exercises strenuously to alleviate symptoms of, often to excess.  It will humiliate and upset him and assumedly will happen at the start of our trip and very likely wreck his holiday.

In the case of the poster in #6 they had requested assistance and P&O had found said request so that seems fair enough to me. I am losing track a bit here but if your husband has not asked for assistance he shouldn't need to take the tender test. 

[Son of Anarchy]

When we were on Aurora in September we had two tender ports.

 

All passengers included those who could walk without any aids had to do the tender assessment en-route to the tender station..

 

It comprised of have to step over two lines 18 inches apart.

[Gettingwarmer]

2 minutes ago, Son of Anarchy said:

When we were on Aurora in September we had two tender ports.

 

All passengers included those who could walk without any aids had to do the tender assessment en-route to the tender station..

 

It comprised of have to step over two lines 18 inches apart.

Yes we have had to do this previously. All people going ashore had to take the test. 
It could be that they were for specific ports. 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Gettingwarmer

[Cloudyrain]

30 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

Unfortunately post #6 seems to indicate tender assessments are happening.  It could be that person welcomed it, my husband most certainly won't and will take it very much that he has been singled out for having an illness which he detests and exercises strenuously to alleviate symptoms of, often to excess.  It will humiliate and upset him and assumedly will happen at the start of our trip and very likely wreck his holiday.

(ETA: this reply is regarding embarkation, emergency need, not the tender assessment of stepping over the lines).
 

As far as I’m aware (and in our case it was) it was purely a “desk top exercise” to assess assistance requirements. You complete the special assistance form and tick that you don’t need assistance in an emergency (etc) and the office assess the form and are therefore able to confirm who would or wouldn’t need assistance in the event of an emergency.

 

if people turn up at port clearly in need of more assistance than they have indicated they need they are taken off to one side and the case is considered separately.

 

my son is a part-time wheelchair user: he can walk, and wouldn’t need any assistance in an emergency or to get on or off the gangway/tender. Also I am his 1-2-1, and therefore he is able to travel.

 

the email regarding assistance is now sent to all passengers (multiple times) and isn’t related to people having previously asked for assistance as their system doesn’t retain those details (apparently). 
 

tender assessment used to be done visually without people knowing when they were lining up to get on, where staff tried to identify those who wouldn’t be able to access it safely. They now make sure you can specifically walk over lines (or so my friend experienced). 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Cloudyrain

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, Son of Anarchy said:

When we were on Aurora in September we had two tender ports.

 

All passengers included those who could walk without any aids had to do the tender assessment en-route to the tender station..

 

It comprised of have to step over two lines 18 inches apart.

We were on Aurora in October and had one tender port, however I can't for the life in me remember whether we did the step over test, I am sure someone on the cruise will remember. I do remember everyone doing it on our recent Cunard cruise as they had a rubber mat with the lines on. At least if everyone has to do it that may placate MB's husband as he would be treated exactly the same as everyone else which seems much fairer overall. 

[carlanthony24]

34 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

We were on Aurora in October and had one tender port, however I can't for the life in me remember whether we did the step over test, I am sure someone on the cruise will remember. I do remember everyone doing it on our recent Cunard cruise as they had a rubber mat with the lines on. At least if everyone has to do it that may placate MB's husband as he would be treated exactly the same as everyone else which seems much fairer overall. 

You are indeed correct. Tender ports everyone has to step over a mat or board just to confirm they fit enough to board and deboard the boats. If you can't or don't they will not allow you off. Unless it has changed in the last few years.

[purplesea]

On 11/8/2023 at 12:14 PM, GOQ said:

I've arthritic knees and problems with my balance so I would very probably need someone to steady me while descending stairs in an emergency. 

 

So I have requested assistance, completed and emailed the form back to P&O but I still had this email which included the paragraph :

 

"Recently, some guests have arrived at the terminal with specific on board needs that they did not make us aware of prior to their holiday. Unfortunately, to ensure we have sufficient capability to support all our guests at all times, this meant those guests were unable to board the ship. "

 

A couple of cruises back I sent a completed request for assistance form back to P&O only to find when I asked for assisted boarding at Southampton they had no record of my request. However while on board they did seem to have my request on file and I was asked to attend an assessment to determine if I was capable of using the ships tender to disembark.

 

So while boarding they had no record of my  request, then while onboard they did have my request.

 

A bit worrying. 

 

 

Something similar happen to us in September. I had requested assistance for my mother and on arrival at Southampton they had no record of the fact, but on arrival in our cabin there was notification of my mother's dietry requirements. How? The e-mail I sent to P&O contained both the form for assistance and her dietry needs.

[Megabear2]

I have just had a 40 minute call from P&O in which I had to go detail by detail into the use of the walking stick, ability to walk, when my husband may not be able to walk etc.  I've spent most of that time being told it is a new requirement in the past month that every single person using a walking stick MUST fill in the form regardless of previous boarding not requiring such a form.

 

When I explained they were asking me to foretell the future as if we knew when a bad day might occur we would be extremely happy, the guy said although sympathetic he did feel we would have some idea! So fortune telling it is.

 

He could not grasp why I could not provide the full details he asked for in the section regarding hidden disabilities.  

 

Once again I was told the old form originally completed was overridden by the online one and I should fill it in.  He said he could see my emails but they did not suffice as an explanation.  I then informed him I've filled in two online forms via my Cruise Personaliser and yet when following up with the requested email detailing the hidden disabilities just received emails saying fill in the form. I'm afraid I rather sarcastically asked if they want me to do this every day until we sail as that's how often the condition can change.

 

At this point he spoke to senior management ... 5 minutes passed and then, yes you guessed it ... fill out the form.

 

On the subject of tender test I'm told my husband will be invited to a room to conduct this in private.  

 

It's been left that he will speak to the assistance team and ask them to confirm in writing that they have noted the situation. I'm to expect another call, probably tomorrow.

 

So  basically EVERY person using a walking stick (which they insist on calling a mobility aid) IS REQUIRED  to complete the form.

 

Meantime my OH, the movement impaired guest as P&O called him, is busy running around the rugby pitch for 80 minutes ...