Staff wages are they based on the ship occupancy

[sparks1093]

5 hours ago, Kristelle said:

My comment wasn't about preferences, but simply stating that in places where staff are paid a set wage without tips, they get same pay regardless of how busy the place is. 

And I've demonstrated with tips they make more then an hourly rate. Working for tips isn't easy and isn't for everyone but it can provide a decent living, even with the lulls.

[Aquahound]

20 hours ago, Kristelle said:

 

M y comment was just pointing out the fact that in a system where there is a set wage and no tips - like countries other than America  - then it does not matter to the wage earner whether the place is busy or not

 

Yet, everywhere I travel in the world, including Australia, they always seem to have their hand out for tips, whether it's on receipts, tip jars, etc.  So yes, it would seem that it does matter how busy the place is.    

[Kristelle]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

And I've demonstrated with tips they make more then an hourly rate. Working for tips isn't easy and isn't for everyone but it can provide a decent living, even with the lulls.

 

 

I havent argued with that - certainly not under American system.

 

[Kristelle]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

Yet, everywhere I travel in the world, including Australia, they always seem to have their hand out for tips, whether it's on receipts, tip jars, etc.  So yes, it would seem that it does matter how busy the place is.    

 

 

Tips jars in Australia are for small change only - if you see any clear jars, they very rarely have other than coins in them and often they are fundraisers for local sporting clubs or charities rather than going to staff.

or the coins go to staff christmas break up or something like that - not to wages on the day, so a quiet day is no different pay wise to a busy day

 

Have never seen tipping shown o n receipts here and I have lived here for 6 decades - service charge for public holidays or GST (goods and services tax) - but they don't go to individual staff

We never pay tips in restaruants in Australia - possibly some cunning waiters recognise American tourists and try their luck - but it isnt Australian system or something Australians do here.

 

Visiting somewhere of course is different to living there.

[Kristelle]

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2910923-tipping/page/4/#comment-66403623

 

Similar sticky thread on Trip Advisor.

[RobertGhost]

First of all, it should be mentioned that the cost of living for a cruise ship worker can be much lower than that of a land-based worker, as the former does not have to pay rent or buy food. But workers on such ships have demanding and unconventional schedules, making them work longer hours than if they did a standard job for 40 hours a week. Let us remember that a waiter's assistant or runner will earn differently from the waiter or bartender himself, who counts on tips. I have also encountered situations where the waiter or bartender himself asks if the service (tip) can be added. 

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, RobertGhost said:

First of all, it should be mentioned that the cost of living for a cruise ship worker can be much lower than that of a land-based worker, as the former does not have to pay rent or buy food.

This fallacious argument is trotted out whenever shipboard salaries come up.  Unless the crew member is living in his/her parent's basement, they are paying rent on an apartment that is empty while they are at sea (unless they cancel their lease and move their stuff to a storage unit, where they are still paying rent).  If the crew member has a family, then they are definitely still paying rent, and buying food for their family.

[sparks1093]

25 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This fallacious argument is trotted out whenever shipboard salaries come up.  Unless the crew member is living in his/her parent's basement, they are paying rent on an apartment that is empty while they are at sea (unless they cancel their lease and move their stuff to a storage unit, where they are still paying rent).  If the crew member has a family, then they are definitely still paying rent, and buying food for their family.

Very true. Sailors only live at sea part of the year, the rest of the time they live on land.

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This fallacious argument is trotted out whenever shipboard salaries come up.  Unless the crew member is living in his/her parent's basement, they are paying rent on an apartment that is empty while they are at sea (unless they cancel their lease and move their stuff to a storage unit, where they are still paying rent).  If the crew member has a family, then they are definitely still paying rent, and buying food for their family.

Are the waiters and stewards typically on a 6 month on/6 months off schedule?

[BruceMuzz]

13 hours ago, RobertGhost said:

First of all, it should be mentioned that the cost of living for a cruise ship worker can be much lower than that of a land-based worker, as the former does not have to pay rent or buy food. But workers on such ships have demanding and unconventional schedules, making them work longer hours than if they did a standard job for 40 hours a week. Let us remember that a waiter's assistant or runner will earn differently from the waiter or bartender himself, who counts on tips. I have also encountered situations where the waiter or bartender himself asks if the service (tip) can be added. 

Not sure which cruise ships you have worked on. But on the 31 ships I have managed, most of my crew is married with several children. They are paying rent, house payments, utility bills, medical bills, and schooling for kids. The spouse needs to stay home to care for the kids, so it is a single salary family. The money they earn onboard is usually their only form of income.

MLC2006 regulations currently stipulate a 91 hour work week. My crew often works more than that. They all work multiple split shifts, 24/7. No days off.

[BruceMuzz]

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Are the waiters and stewards typically on a 6 month on/6 months off schedule?

These numbers vary by cruise line. In 2023, the majority of cruise lines have hotel service staff working 8 / 9 / 10 months on, and 1 or 2 months off.

There is a lot of discussion about shortening the working contracts, but:

1. Many crew do not want a shorter contract. They need the money.

2. Air tickets for crew are a major cost for cruise lines. Shortening contracts would require more air tickets. 

[ontheweb]

1 minute ago, BruceMuzz said:

These numbers vary by cruise line. In 2023, the majority of cruise lines have hotel service staff working 8 / 9 / 10 months on, and 1 or 2 months off.

There is a lot of discussion about shortening the working contracts, but:

1. Many crew do not want a shorter contract. They need the money.

2. Air tickets for crew are a major cost for cruise lines. Shortening contracts would require more air tickets. 

How about the officers? What kind of on/off schedule do they typically have?

[chengkp75]

12 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Are the waiters and stewards typically on a 6 month on/6 months off schedule?

As Bruce says, most are 8-10 months, and the time off is up to the crew, since they are not paid during their vacation.  I've known many, both hotel and engine staff, that have worked 2-3 10 month contracts back to back (so 2+ years away from home), in order to make money.

3 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

How about the officers? What kind of on/off schedule do they typically have?

This depends on what you call "officers".  Hotel supervisors are typically 3-4 months on, and half that time off.  Deck and engine officers tend to be 3-4 month on and equal time off.  This varies a lot depending on the country of origin of the officers, and their respective unions.

[Heidi13]

18 hours ago, RobertGhost said:

First of all, it should be mentioned that the cost of living for a cruise ship worker can be much lower than that of a land-based worker, as the former does not have to pay rent or buy food. But workers on such ships have demanding and unconventional schedules, making them work longer hours than if they did a standard job for 40 hours a week. Let us remember that a waiter's assistant or runner will earn differently from the waiter or bartender himself, who counts on tips. I have also encountered situations where the waiter or bartender himself asks if the service (tip) can be added. 

 

Sorry, that isn't even close to being factual.

 

Since you mentioned "Cruise ship worker" that includes the Master, Officers, PO's, Ratings and Contracted Employees, not all of them receives the normal expectation of free room and board when working aboard a ship.

 

When our DIL met our son, she was a "Steiner" aka hairdresser aboard a Princess ship for a 10-month contract. During her entire time aboard ship she paid a daily "Room & Board" fee to the ship, regardless of the amount of tips she received on any given day. Therefore, on a slow day, it actually cost her money to be on the ship. While aboard ship, she also maintained a residence, or she would have nowhere to live upon returning home.

 

Our son maintained a residence while working onboard ships for almost 20 years. Same for myself, when I went to sea, my wife still needed a roof over her head, meals, vehicle, etc. Therefore, for many of us the cost of living is not lower.

 

Having spent 35+ years, with a few years managing a shipyard, I cannot agree that shipboard jobs are more demanding or unconventional schedules. Possibly, if compared to office workers, but certainly not In the shipyard, where I worked 12-14 hrs at least 6 days a week.  DW was a Trauma RN, also working 12 hr shifts, with her shifts being just as demanding as mine. Our SIL is RCMP and also works, at a minimum 12 hrs shifts, with 16 - 20 hrs some days.

 

At sea, the hours of rest requirements prohibit 20 hr shifts, so cruise ship workers may have less demanding hours than our SIL.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Are the waiters and stewards typically on a 6 month on/6 months off schedule?

 

The only cruise line that I know where the Hotel Ratings work 6 month contracts is Viking Ocean. The rotation is 6 months on and 2 months off. The crew generally know their schedule 3 contacts ahead.

 

On most of the other cruise lines, the ratings work 8 - 10 months, with 1 or 2 months off.

 

Am not aware of any 6 month on/off rotation. Day for day rotations are often 10 -12 weeks on/off. DS mostly works 10 wks on/off as Master or Chief Officer.

[Heidi13]

5 hours ago, ontheweb said:

How about the officers? What kind of on/off schedule do they typically have?

 

The Deck & Engineering Officer schedules depend on the cruise line and country of origin. Traditionally it was 4 months on and 2 months off. However, an increasing number are now working day for day schedules of 3 - 4 months on/off.

 

Country of origin, or the officer's contract can have significant impact on the schedule and benefits. When DS started with Princess, he was on a North American contact that paid him in cash on board the ship. Zero benefits, other than the company paid to get him to/from the ship. The company paid none of his college fees as a Cadet. As 2nd Officer, he convinced them to switch him to a UK contract, as he also has a UK Passport. His salary increased significantly and he received a number of benefits, which included paid study leave for completing his Master FG in UK. On his original North American contract, he would not have been paid attending college and would have paid all the college fees and exams himself.

 

Hotel Supervisors when I last sailed with Princess worked 6 months, with 2 months off. The Hotel Manager was day for day.

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

The only cruise line that I know where the Hotel Ratings work 6 month contracts is Viking Ocean. The rotation is 6 months on and 2 months off. The crew generally know their schedule 3 contacts ahead.

 

On most of the other cruise lines, the ratings work 8 - 10 months, with 1 or 2 months off.

 

Am not aware of any 6 month on/off rotation. Day for day rotations are often 10 -12 weeks on/off. DS mostly works 10 wks on/off as Master or Chief Officer.

I had originally mentioned 6 months on/6 months off because I knew of some entertainers who were on that schedule.

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I had originally mentioned 6 months on/6 months off because I knew of some entertainers who were on that schedule.

Entertainers tend to fall into a separate category, some are not even cruise line employees.

 

I always find it humorous when articles about "crew life" are written by entertainment staff, who have the least structured life of any crew.

Edited November 26, 2023 by chengkp75

[ldubs]

On 11/22/2023 at 10:14 PM, BruceMuzz said:

In America, tipped service employees have a special income tax category where they are paid lower than the legal minimum wage.

But they are taxed not only on the lower wages - but also on the tips they receive. In many US states, the income taxes more than wipe away the actual wages, to cover the additional tips they receive. If a waiter in an American restaurant has a very slow week, the taxes take his actual salary, and he is left only with the lower gratuities he received. If it was a slow week, his actual take-home earnings are very small.

 

This varies a lot by state.   In at least one state, tipped restaurant workers are paid above the Fed minimum before tips.  Additionally, in all states, I think it is accurate to say all restaurant workers are paid at least the Fed minimum wage.  If the base hourly + tips fall short the employer must make up the difference.   Of course, that doesn't not mean wages can be low during a slow week.   

[chengkp75]

35 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

This varies a lot by state.   In at least one state, tipped restaurant workers are paid above the Fed minimum before tips.  Additionally, in all states, I think it is accurate to say all restaurant workers are paid at least the Fed minimum wage.  If the base hourly + tips fall short the employer must make up the difference.   Of course, that doesn't not mean wages can be low during a slow week.   

And, currently, the federal minimum wage is $7.25, which is just above the federal poverty level for a single person (based on 40hr/week, 52 week/year)

Edited November 26, 2023 by chengkp75

[ldubs]

Just now, chengkp75 said:

And, currently, the federal minimum wage is $7.25

 

Yeah, that is another issue.  What I was addressing was a misunderstanding on how tipped employees in America are paid (and taxed).  In my state the minimum is $15.50 (before tips).  Next year it will be $20 for fast food workers who generally don't receive much in the way of tips.    

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

Yeah, that is another issue.  What I was addressing was a misunderstanding on how tipped employees in America are paid (and taxed).  In my state the minimum is $15.50 (before tips).  Next year it will be $20 for fast food workers who generally don't receive much in the way of tips.    

And in Maine it is $7.08 before tips.

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And in Maine it is $7.08 before tips.

 

To clarify, I am not suggesting the minimum wage is sufficient anywhere.   Repeating myself, I was addressing the way tipped employees are paid and taxed per the laws in place.  

 

Interestingly, while California cost of living is going to be higher than Maine's, I doubt it is anywhere near twice (except perhaps gasoline).  

[Toofarfromthesea]

I'd like to thank those who actually work in the cruise industry who come here and give us the straight poop.  It is very appreciated and you are very valued here.

[capriccio]

3 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, currently, the federal minimum wage is $7.25, which is just above the federal poverty level for a single person (based on 40hr/week, 52 week/year)

And it varies widely (and in complexity) by state:  https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped