Must everything be so difficult?

[cruisemom42]

42 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

When I mentioned the tiny showers and how it was a deal breaker for me on the Azamara board the faithful actually got mad and a little insulting.

Everyone has their own list of priorities when it comes to travel. Me, I love the old “R” ships and will book them (particularly on Azamara which is more solo friendly) as long as I can. I cant see booking or not booking an itinerary I like because of an amenity I might spend 15 minutes a day using, at most…but we are all different.

 

I also find the pricing — especially on Azamara — to be quite a bit less than Viking, let alone Seabourn or Silversea. Is it a premium line? I suppose. But it is certainly not a luxury line.

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, Waltershipman said:

Hank my favorite line is usually the one i am.on the exception for the time being is EJ is our favorite 

 

My daughter is set to go on Azamara pursuit next year and i hope it is as GOOD as when we went on it when it was part of RCCL

We always smile when we say that we are "equal opportunity cruisers."  It is not in our nature to become loyal to a single cruise line.  Today I was comparing some July, Aug 2024 EJ offerings (in the Med) to Seabourn and the prices are nearly the same cost per person/day.  If we decide to book something for that time frame it will be a tough decision.  

 

Hank

[Waltershipman]

9 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We always smile when we say that we are "equal opportunity cruisers."  It is not in our nature to become loyal to a single cruise line.  Today I was comparing some July, Aug 2024 EJ offerings (in the Med) to Seabourn and the prices are nearly the same cost per person/day.  If we decide to book something for that time frame it will be a tough decision.  

 

Hank

We sail on the bew Vista on January 31 so will be interesting to see the ways it compares or does not with E J as we too are equal opportunity cruisers and we love it that way

[*Miss G*]

15 hours ago, zgscl said:

Thanks for this! So in other words travel agents (including OTAs) accounted for slightly over half of all bookings. That is a huge percent of their business. I wonder what percent of bookings were direct for the airlines at the time. If I have time I’ll have to research that.

 

19 hours ago, dockman said:

When the airlines first began to cut travel agents commissions and later eliminate them there were many agent groups who thoght that it would not last.  They were very wrong.  Now the airlines have most booking online as well as doing their own seat assignments and other tasks that the airlines reps and travel agents used to provide.

 

 

 

I think the travel agency services have largely been taken over by/morphed into third-party booking sites (Expedia, Orbit, et al).  I am not a fan of 3PBS because I am a picky informed consumer, but there are lots who do make use of them, based on the degree of advertising, prominent web presence, and chatter.  I imagine it’s hard for independent TA’s to compete with that in an electronic world.

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, Waltershipman said:

We sail on the bew Vista on January 31 so will be interesting to see the ways it compares or does not with E J as we too are equal opportunity cruisers and we love it that way

You and I both have a lot of curiosity about that Vista ship :).  We also have our first Silverseas cruise in 2024, and we really wonder how that will compare to EJ, SB, and O.  Lots of fun with the variety that is available.  

 

Hank

[Waltershipman]

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

You and I both have a lot of curiosity about that Vista ship :).  We also have our first Silverseas cruise in 2024, and we really wonder how that will compare to EJ, SB, and O.  Lots of fun with the variety that is available.  

 

Hank

Well said we have been on onw silver sea cruise about 12 years ago and enjoyed it very much

 

All the best and see you on another cruise down the way

[dockman]

3 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

 

 

I think the travel agency services have largely been taken over by/morphed into third-party booking sites (Expedia, Orbit, et al).  I am not a fan of 3PBS because I am a picky informed consumer, but there are lots who do make use of them, based on the degree of advertising, prominent web presence, and chatter.  I imagine it’s hard for independent TA’s to compete with that in an electronic world.

And a very large OTA has just announced a new partnership with one of the largest OTA cruise sellers to push cruises across their platforms....and their software for bookings is very much more user friendly than the cruise web sites....not to mention they will no doubt offer a variety of rebates in the form of OBC extra amenitity etc....while a good experienced well trained and well travelled travel agent offers expertise and advice that no OTA can match it is still a very tough way to make a living as many many passengers will take that advice then expect the agent to match the price/obc of the big online booking sites...

[dockman]

On 11/24/2023 at 12:52 AM, *Miss G* said:

 

I can’t see where eliminating TA’s is in their near future.  Or even far future. lol. But I don’t have any in-depth knowledge of costs and revenues to even begin to comment on the bottom line.  Sorry!

The trend towards more direct booking with cruise lines continues to grow slowly year after year....it is up to around 25% or so now and as technology gets better and better and as the average cruiser becomes more and more comfortable with online booking it will only grow...won't happen overnight but happen it will.  The thing i think will be curtailed relatively soon is the 
"take over a booking" practice where you talk and book direct with the cruise line and then turn the booking over to a travel agent who gets a commission as if they had done all the selling and work.  This forces the cruise line to hire pay and try to  train staff to deal with answering questions etc plus still pay commissions after the fact.  

 

If you have a good travel agent then hold tight as they are a slowly dying breed as evidenced by the massive numbers of old time brick and mortar agents that are now gone and many are replaced by young inexperienced agents many of whom are working from home whose first hand experience on multiple cruises is very limited.

 

It would not surprise me in the least if 75% of bookings are direct online within the next decade or sooner.  Time will tell.

[Toofarfromthesea]

20 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Such is life on social media.  But one cannot dispute the fact that the R ship bathrooms (in the regular balcony and outside cabins) are not up to the standard one would expect from a "premium" line.  One tendency we have noticed on multiple CC Boards are the ability of "cheerleaders" to defend their favorite line/ship without being honest about shortcomings.

 

Hank

 

They aren't up to the standard I would expect of the cheapest cruise line out there.

[Toofarfromthesea]

20 hours ago, Waltershipman said:

Hank my favorite line is usually the one i am.on the exception for the time being is EJ is our favorite 

 

My daughter is set to go on Azamara pursuit next year and i hope it is as GOOD as when we went on it when it was part of RCCL

 

That's what was so sad about the un-usable, for me, showers.  Everything else about Azamara seemed really attractive.

[Toofarfromthesea]

20 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Everyone has their own list of priorities when it comes to travel. Me, I love the old “R” ships and will book them (particularly on Azamara which is more solo friendly) as long as I can. I cant see booking or not booking an itinerary I like because of an amenity I might spend 15 minutes a day using, at most…but we are all different.

 

I also find the pricing — especially on Azamara — to be quite a bit less than Viking, let alone Seabourn or Silversea. Is it a premium line? I suppose. But it is certainly not a luxury line.

 

It wasn't that the shower was just small, it was that after seeing it in YouTube videos it was apparent that for me it would be unusable.  I'd need to either go the the gym or spa to shower or rely on those spongebath sheets, and that's not something I want to be doing on vacation.  It's too bad because almost everything else on Azamara seemed very appealing to me.  But no matter good a deal is, if there's a deal breaker there's no deal.

 

I'm happy that it isn't an issue for you.  But you just did the same thing as the folks on the Azamara board, minimized my issue as if it was no big deal.  Being able to take a shower is not an amenity, to me.

Edited November 25, 2023 by Toofarfromthesea

[cruisemom42]

14 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

It wasn't that the shower was just small, it was that after seeing it in YouTube videos it was apparent that for me it would be unusable.  I'd need to either go the the gym or spa to shower or rely on those spongebath sheets, and that's not something I want to be doing on vacation.  It's too bad because almost everything else on Azamara seemed very appealing to me.  But no matter good a deal is, if there's a deal breaker there's no deal.

 

I'm happy that it isn't an issue for you.  But you just did the same thing as the folks on the Azamara board, minimized my issue as if it was no big deal.  Being able to take a shower is not an amenity, to me.

In all fairness you didn’t say you wouldn’t be able to use it, merely that you found it small. There’s a big difference there.

 

The higher category rooms have larger showers.

[Boatdrill]

 

On 11/22/2023 at 6:47 PM, dockman said:

....once upon a time travel agents got paid for selling a cruise and handling all the communications and questions with the client...fair enough as saves the cruise line from having to pay their staff to deal with it. But is if fair for an agent who has no involvement with client until after it is all sorted and booked to come in right before final payment and say give me a commission?

Oh yes, it's very fair for the initial booking to be transferred to an agent of the customer's choice. 

Agents do more than just sell a cruise and then wait  a very long time -sometimes a year or more-  for their commission.  And rarely is the booking "all sorted" and nothing else needs to be done.  

 

After the booking is transferred, it's now handled by the agent. The agent responds to requests by the client, such as: change in fare (for example add on, or remove, Have It All),  change in dinner seating, change in room location, change in room category (from verandah to suite) and on and on. 

Room category fare changes sometimes lower the commission, and sometimes they  increase the commission. Sometimes HAL lowers the fare, and if the booking is then refared by the agent as a courtesy to the client, the commission will decrease.  If the booking is later cancelled by clients, the agent is not paid the commission. If the booking is cancelled after the commission has been paid to the agent, HAL recalls the payment, and the agent is left with no commission, despite the work already done.   This is one reason some agents charge their clients an upfront fee to ensure they are compensated in some way for their work on the booking.   

 

Clients may also ask for pre or post cruise hotel recommendations, and the travel agent can book them for the clients. The agent will usually receive commission directly from the hotel.

However, if the client asks the agent to add a pre or post cruise HAL hotel to the booking, the agent will not be paid commission from HAL, nor the hotel. 

 

Remember: the HAL rep may complete the initial booking, but they're paid for their time, no matter what happens to the booking later on.  

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Boatdrill

[RuthC]

4 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

Agents do more than just sell a cruise and then wait  a very long time -sometimes a year or more-  for their commission.  And rarely is the booking "all sorted" and nothing else needs to be done. 

To add to your extensive list: 
I have had various TAs research car services to the port in Santiago, Chile---only to come up empty. 
Research and book car services to international airports I decide to fly out of. 
Print and send me my boarding pass. 
Assorted other services I can't remember at the moment. 

[Hlitner]

On 11/24/2023 at 8:25 PM, dockman said:

The trend towards more direct booking with cruise lines continues to grow slowly year after year....it is up to around 25% or so now and as technology gets better and better and as the average cruiser becomes more and more comfortable with online booking it will only grow...won't happen overnight but happen it will.  The thing i think will be curtailed relatively soon is the 
"take over a booking" practice where you talk and book direct with the cruise line and then turn the booking over to a travel agent who gets a commission as if they had done all the selling and work.  This forces the cruise line to hire pay and try to  train staff to deal with answering questions etc plus still pay commissions after the fact.  

 

If you have a good travel agent then hold tight as they are a slowly dying breed as evidenced by the massive numbers of old time brick and mortar agents that are now gone and many are replaced by young inexperienced agents many of whom are working from home whose first hand experience on multiple cruises is very limited.

 

It would not surprise me in the least if 75% of bookings are direct online within the next decade or sooner.  Time will tell.

We can agree to disagree.  When it comes to cruise vacations, many folks want the "hand holding" that only comes from dealing person to person.  And even many frequent cruisers (such as myself) want to have some personal business relationship with an "advocate who has clout" vs dealing direct with a cruise line or doing everything online.  In fact, I do nearly all our bookings online through one of our two favored cruise agencies.  Both those agencies kick back 7-10% of the cruise fare in OBCs and/or other perks that I would not get by booking directly with a cruise line (be it online or through a PCC).  

 

What sometimes get forgotten is that many of us spend a lot of money on cruises.  In fact, some cruise bookings can cost over $250,000 for a single booking!  Yes, that is the exception, but spending $10,000+ is not unusual.  For most of us, that is a major expense, and it is very nice to have an expert/advocate when there are "issues."  

 

I do agree that more and more bookings will be done online, but a high percentage of those will still be through various travel/cruise agencies who provide extras.  Why on earth should folks pay an extra 5-10% for the "privilege" of booking directly with a cruise line.  We sometimes like to compare booking direct with the person who buys a new car at full sticker price or who would buy real estate online.   We will likely book another luxury cruise today!  I will do that online, but it will be done through a cruise line online site (linked directly to the cruise line) and it will get me over $1500 in On Board Credit that I would not get if I booked (online or via the phone) with the cruise agency.  My cruise agency is closed on Sunday, so sometime in the next few days I will send a follow-up e-mail to one of my favorite cruise agents (who works for the agency I use) giving her a heads-up about the new booking.  From that point she will serve as my "advocate,"  will handle any questions/issues, and take care of "repricing" (if the cruise price were to drop) or any cabin change.  That will generally be done via a quick e-mail with no wasted time (on my part) waiting on the phone and/or trying to get to an employee who has a clue.

 

Hank

[Waltershipman]

40 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We can agree to disagree.  When it comes to cruise vacations, many folks want the "hand holding" that only comes from dealing person to person.  And even many frequent cruisers (such as myself) want to have some personal business relationship with an "advocate who has clout" vs dealing direct with a cruise line or doing everything online.  In fact, I do nearly all our bookings online through one of our two favored cruise agencies.  Both those agencies kick back 7-10% of the cruise fare in OBCs and/or other perks that I would not get by booking directly with a cruise line (be it online or through a PCC).  

 

What sometimes get forgotten is that many of us spend a lot of money on cruises.  In fact, some cruise bookings can cost over $250,000 for a single booking!  Yes, that is the exception, but spending $10,000+ is not unusual.  For most of us, that is a major expense, and it is very nice to have an expert/advocate when there are "issues."  

 

I do agree that more and more bookings will be done online, but a high percentage of those will still be through various travel/cruise agencies who provide extras.  Why on earth should folks pay an extra 5-10% for the "privilege" of booking directly with a cruise line.  We sometimes like to compare booking direct with the person who buys a new car at full sticker price or who would buy real estate online.   We will likely book another luxury cruise today!  I will do that online, but it will be done through a cruise line online site (linked directly to the cruise line) and it will get me over $1500 in On Board Credit that I would not get if I booked (online or via the phone) with the cruise agency.  My cruise agency is closed on Sunday, so sometime in the next few days I will send a follow-up e-mail to one of my favorite cruise agents (who works for the agency I use) giving her a heads-up about the new booking.  From that point she will serve as my "advocate,"  will handle any questions/issues, and take care of "repricing" (if the cruise price were to drop) or any cabin change.  That will generally be done via a quick e-mail with no wasted time (on my part) waiting on the phone and/or trying to get to an employee who has a clue.

 

Hank

AGREE TOTALLY HANK

I book through a company in Florida that i call and deal with the owner and have done that for over 20 years. Some years ago we actually met for dinner awaiting a cruise.

The company does have an on line presence but it seems I like to connect with a trusted person who i think is also a friend and advocate. 

 

He was referred to me from a fellow passenger a long time ago.  I can also brainstorm with him. He was the one who referred me to E J about 2 years ago

 

 

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, Waltershipman said:

AGREE TOTALLY HANK

I book through a company in Florida that i call and deal with the owner and have done that for over 20 years. Some years ago we actually met for dinner awaiting a cruise.

The company does have an on line presence but it seems I like to connect with a trusted person who i think is also a friend and advocate. 

 

He was referred to me from a fellow passenger a long time ago.  I can also brainstorm with him. He was the one who referred me to E J about 2 years ago

 

 

Always good to have a knowledgeable sounding board.   in our case, we became interested in EJ as soon as the concept was announced, because of our high opinion of MSC's Yacht Club.  Like many, we assumed that EJ would be some kind of extension of the YC in terms of service (2nd to none) and concept.  The reality is that there is nothing similar between the YC and EJ except that they have common ownership.  

 

We do think that EJ will have a good future, but it will need to make some changes.  A good friend (who only cruises on luxury lines) asked us our opinion of EJ, and my quick answer was "it is not ready for Prime Time."  I cannot help but wonder how many cruisers are truly impressed by a line that boasts (3 Steinways per ship) without having a single bottle of Rye :).

 

Hank

[dockman]

11 hours ago, Hlitner said:

We can agree to disagree.  When it comes to cruise vacations, many folks want the "hand holding" that only comes from dealing person to person.  And even many frequent cruisers (such as myself) want to have some personal business relationship with an "advocate who has clout" vs dealing direct with a cruise line or doing everything online.  In fact, I do nearly all our bookings online through one of our two favored cruise agencies.  Both those agencies kick back 7-10% of the cruise fare in OBCs and/or other perks that I would not get by booking directly with a cruise line (be it online or through a PCC).  

 

What sometimes get forgotten is that many of us spend a lot of money on cruises.  In fact, some cruise bookings can cost over $250,000 for a single booking!  Yes, that is the exception, but spending $10,000+ is not unusual.  For most of us, that is a major expense, and it is very nice to have an expert/advocate when there are "issues."  

 

I do agree that more and more bookings will be done online, but a high percentage of those will still be through various travel/cruise agencies who provide extras.  Why on earth should folks pay an extra 5-10% for the "privilege" of booking directly with a cruise line.  We sometimes like to compare booking direct with the person who buys a new car at full sticker price or who would buy real estate online.   We will likely book another luxury cruise today!  I will do that online, but it will be done through a cruise line online site (linked directly to the cruise line) and it will get me over $1500 in On Board Credit that I would not get if I booked (online or via the phone) with the cruise agency.  My cruise agency is closed on Sunday, so sometime in the next few days I will send a follow-up e-mail to one of my favorite cruise agents (who works for the agency I use) giving her a heads-up about the new booking.  From that point she will serve as my "advocate,"  will handle any questions/issues, and take care of "repricing" (if the cruise price were to drop) or any cabin change.  That will generally be done via a quick e-mail with no wasted time (on my part) waiting on the phone and/or trying to get to an employee who has a clue.

 

Hank

We shall see but i stand by the prediction that within ten years 75% or more of cruise bookings will be online direct with the cruise line.  The technology will get better and better as AI will be incorporated more and more to assist online bookers with virtual ship tours as well as virtual agents who will be there to assist at the click of a button.  Also more and more younger cruisers will age and become the predominate age group and these people will be much more inclined to book online.  A lot of the really good cruise travel agents are diminishing as the good old time agents are retiring.

 

The times they are a changing and as technology gets better and better along with cruisers becoming more and more internet savy/comfortable does not bode well for the good old fashion competent travel agents that many of us have used for decades.  The rebates offered by many agents is generally coming right out of their commission. 

 

Not totally unlike what happened with airlines decades ago when agents would rebate a big chunk of their commissions to get the bookings .  That no longer exists. The fact is the old time competent travel agents are a dying/retiring breed.  At the same time the cruise demographic will also change and the future cruiser is more internet savy.  For decades travel agents made good $$ booking air tickets and then one day it all ended in spite of airlines touting they were "partners in travel" with travel agents...until they were not.

 

Yes a cruise is a more complicated booking but over time the cruise lines who are constantly looking for areas to save $$ etc will look more and more at that "agent commissions" line on their financials as an area that technology will enable them to reduce substantially.  

 

It won't happen overnight but happen it will.  Enjoy those big agent rebates while they last but in the long run I predict the cruise lines will basically say the same thing the airlines once said about agents rebating commissions.  If you can afford to rebate a big chunk of commissions we must be paying you too much and wham within a year or two agent airfare commissions dropped from 15% or so to 5 % to zero.  That was over 20 years ago and in spite of agents anger and threats it quickly became the norm.

 

I certainly do not blame anyone booking cruises now to take maximum advantage of the variety or rebates offered by some agents. But the times they are a changing and change they will.