New Mobility Scooter Restrictions that weren't in force earlier in 2023

[Sarah W.]

As a retired teacher who now finds it difficult to walk long distances as is needed in order to get around a ship or go on excursions, I was able to go on 3 cruises this year by taking my lightweight and foldable mobility scooter (that the need was verified by my doctor and mostly paid for by Green Shield Insurance). My scooter is a Travelscoot and as far as I am aware should be allowed on all airline flights and cruise ship sailings. It is small in size and foldable, having no difficulty going through regular cabin doors and stored in my cabin, and only weighs 33 lbs.

 

I was on ships owned by Cunard, Princess and Holland America (all leaving from Vancouver Canada).. In each case, I was booked into regular cabins and had zero issues using these cabins, since my scooter is small and lightweight. I even went on excursions, whether at a dock or by shuttle. I booked another cruise, this time to Alaska on the Queen Elizabeth ship for July 11th, 2024.

 

I booked my cruise on November 26th and have my confirmation information. I also at that time send in the disability information, as I did on the 3 previous cruises as far as my scooter information and details. No problems previously. NOW, they are stating that I MUST be in a Disabled cabin and the 3 cabins remaining on the ship for that cruise START at an additional price of $489 US more.

 

As a single traveler, I am already paying an additional 74% single occupancy amount. As far as I would assume, this should be illegal as far as Human Rights protection in the UK, USA and Canada, or I sure would hope so. I am being discriminated due to my need for a mobility scooter, when on 3 earlier cruises this year, there was NO issue.

 

I would be interested in getting feedback as a fellow mobility scooter user.

[Winifred 22]

Unfortunately Carnival here in the U K have tightened up on their accessibility policies recently  this year and assume this is world wide.  I don’t think they are doing anything illegal. Did you book through a TA ? I would imagine the problem in the increased costs to you is the accessibility cabins now available are in a better location and different grade to what you have originally booked hence costing more. They probably actually don’t cost any more than a non accessible cabin in the same location/grade.   

[Victoria2]

Feedback

This is not new. I have no idea how you managed to board a Cunard ship in any port in Canada with a scooter, however foldable, in a booked non scooter specific cabin, but in the UK, you would have been denied boarding.

 

 Your scooter would be of no issue in an ordinary cabin  but who is to say a passenger would put one thing on a disability form but turn up with something else. To avoid the denied boarding scenario, all scooters must be in a suitable cabin and if you had read the blurb on the website [I assume it's on North American sites] before booking  it would have informed you of this requirement.

 

Edit

I have no idea of pricing for accessible cabins but I do know Cunard have a system of fluid pricing so a cabin booked later then the same category booked earlier, might be more, or it might be less expensive. Maybe that is what is happening?

Edited December 19, 2023 by Victoria2

[david63]

8 hours ago, Sarah W. said:

As far as I would assume, this should be illegal as far as Human Rights protection in the UK, USA and Canada, or I sure would hope so. I am being discriminated due to my need for a mobility scooter,

You have to bear in mind that there are other regulations (such as SOLAS) that come into play when on a cruise ship and that they override almost all other regulations/laws.

[Sarah W.]

Thanks for the input already. Amazing!

 

What astounds me is that I was on these 3 very enjoyable cruises this year while staying in regular inside cabins, and it was only after a few weeks of being booked on a July 2024 cruise including filling in the Disability sheet, as I did on all 3 previous cruises, that I received this ominous email.

 

If Cunard or any under that ownership umbrella has a policy of denying disabled people access to a cruise if they bring their mobility scooter (authorized by my doctor and mostly paid for by my medical insurance company), then why were there no issues previously? As I have now realized from my interaction with the company, their excuses are very feeble IMHO.

 

[Victoria2]

34 minutes ago, Sarah W. said:

Thanks for the input already. Amazing!

 

What astounds me is that I was on these 3 very enjoyable cruises this year while staying in regular inside cabins, and it was only after a few weeks of being booked on a July 2024 cruise including filling in the Disability sheet, as I did on all 3 previous cruises, that I received this ominous email.

 

If Cunard or any under that ownership umbrella has a policy of denying disabled people access to a cruise if they bring their mobility scooter (authorized by my doctor and mostly paid for by my medical insurance company), then why were there no issues previously? As I have now realized from my interaction with the company, their excuses are very feeble IMHO.

 

Just out of interest, were your three cruises with your scooter in an inside cabin on Cunard and if so, where did you board?

[david63]

37 minutes ago, Sarah W. said:

why were there no issues previously

The problem is that in the UK (cannot say for other countries) the disabled "claim" has been abused by some for many years and Carnival UK (possibly other Carnival brands) have recently started to tighten up their rules.

[Victoria2]

42 minutes ago, Sarah W. said:

Thanks for the input already. Amazing!

 

What astounds me is that I was on these 3 very enjoyable cruises this year while staying in regular inside cabins, and it was only after a few weeks of being booked on a July 2024 cruise including filling in the Disability sheet, as I did on all 3 previous cruises, that I received this ominous email.

 

If Cunard or any under that ownership umbrella has a policy of denying disabled people access to a cruise if they bring their mobility scooter (authorized by my doctor and mostly paid for by my medical insurance company), then why were there no issues previously? As I have now realized from my interaction with the company, their excuses are very feeble IMHO.

 

Cunard [I can't speak for any other Carnival Corp. line] do NOT deny mobility challenged passengers at all but for health and safety of all, they restrict all scooters to certain designated cabins and have done so for years...from Southampton.

 

As I said, if you had read the not so small print, you would have been aware of this so please do not put any Human Rights/denying access to the disabled onto Cunard. It's there, on the website

Medical and mobility equipment

If you use a wheelchair or scooter, or require medical equipment to come with you on your holiday, check our policies to ensure you have everything you need for a smooth journey and ample support on your voyage.

 

 

in plain language. If it's not on any other site then you have cause to grumble a bit, but not a lot!

 

Edit

and just for belt and braces

1. Choose the right type of stateroom - if you will be bringing a mobility scooter inside the stateroom, you must book a fully accessible stateroom or selected suite. Please note your mobility scooter must still be a maximum length of 120cm. For a list of suitable staterooms, visit our accessibility on board webpage.
2. Please measure your mobility aid and ensure it will fit through the stateroom door. Details of stateroom door widths can be found on our accessibility on board webpage.

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Victoria2

[Victoria2]

13 minutes ago, david63 said:

The problem is that in the UK (cannot say for other countries) the disabled "claim" has been abused by some for many years and Carnival UK (possibly other Carnival brands) have recently started to tighten up their rules.

They haven't tightened up, they have just made the need more prominent for those with mobility needs  who didn't read the T&Cs and turned up only to be denied boarding and for Sarah W. as their policy conforms to EU Passengers Rights, there can be no issue with 'discrimination' issues.

[Victoria2]

Apologies to all for banging on here but Cunard are WONDERFUL with their mobility challenged guests and I feel very strongly when folk don't read all the required literature before booking and then blame Cunard for their own lack of foresight.

[ace2542]

2 hours ago, david63 said:

The problem is that in the UK (cannot say for other countries) the disabled "claim" has been abused by some for many years and Carnival UK (possibly other Carnival brands) have recently started to tighten up their rules.

And there was also the battery pack fire on P&O the other month as well and issues with these electric bikes at home going on fire. Not the same brand as the scooters but still that will have raised concern.

[godfreyb]

As I recall, the increased vigilance started after a number of passengers booked regular cabins, then boarded with mobility chairs, and left them in the corridor outside the cabin, blocking the hallways.  I myself witnessed several chairs being left like this on one cruise.

[RJChatsworth]

Isn’t there another reason too in that in an emergency the crew have a limited number of specialised wheelchairs for exiting passengers from ship with no lifts (elevators) working?  This means they can only accommodate a certain number of passengers requiring assistance and it would aid emergency disembarkment if they were in a defined number of cabins  i.e. those classified as disabled cabins.

[Victoria2]

The crew need to know who will require assistance, hence the pointing out to those who in the past haven't registered because they either didn't read the blurb or thought it didn't apply unless in a wheelchair.

It's not a case of just the accessible cabins as some [all?] PG cabins can be classed as non accessible but are scooter friendly, as can QG cabins.

 

This has been a policy for years but, in deference to those who have said the rules have been tightened up, it's a case of bringing it all to the fore for those who haven't thought it applicable to themselves in the past.

 

Any passenger on walking sticks for example won't require a scooter friendly cabin and in the past might not have thought it necessary to fill out the medical form but unless they can easily negotiate stairs in an emergency when the lifts are out of order, they will be snookered if the crew aren't aware of their restricted mobility.

[Pushpit]

I think realistically there would need to be a limit to how many scooters they can allow, for the reason just mentioned. But also in terms of sheer space and practicality - one scooter will  take half the elevator space and lifts banks A, B and D aren't over supplied. I've just had my foot run over by someone in a scooter (and the driver complained the loudest!) so I'm probably feeling a bit uncharitable about it, but ultimately it's a fairly busy ship and there isn't scope to allow too many scooter and wheelchair users.

 

I agree with Victoria2 that I don't think there's anything new here, but Cunard has one job: to keep us safe - and that restricts all of us to some degree.  Still, once forearmed with the right information I hope the OP can find a good stateroom that keeps everyone happy. Even my sore foot!

[Victoria2]

Pushpit d'you recall the early days of The Motor Car, when a servant walked a head of the 'new' devices with a red flag to warn other highway users of impending vehicular  passing?

 

Well I'm like that with the power chair except I use my not inconsiderable vocal powers to ask folk to watch out as my husband very carefully enters a lift. He has yet to run over anyone's feet other than mine!!

I sympathise with an ouch! 😀

 

 

[MCC retired]

The following notification now appears for new Cunard bookings using the TA's  POLAR booking tool.

 

Notification No 09	Notification Date 07NOV23
**Assistance Requirements** In the unlikely event of an emergency, it is important we have sufficient and specific support for guests who require additional assistance, and we have advance notice of this. Please read the following declaration of assistance needs for your voyage, even if you are travelling with someone who can support you. Guests who are unable to get to their assembly stations independently (which could involve several flights of stairs as lifts will not be available) due to a disability, health, or mental capacity must be pre-registered for assistance to ensure we have sufficient support. Failure to provide this could result in being denied boarding at your own expense. If you do require assistance using the below statements, please advise us of the level of assistance required. *Someone to guide and steady me on the stairs (121 assistance) For anyone bringing a mobility aid this is a recommended minimum requirement. *I'm unable to use stairs (emergency evacuation chair) For anyone who is a full /part time wheelchair or mobility scooter user this is a mandatory requirement.
I have read the above Notification

[Sarah W.]

• In answer to a couple of questions, all 3 cruises earlier this year left from Vancouver, close to where I live so that it only takes a taxi to get to the port.
• Yes, I travelled in regular inside cabins this year, one on Cunard's QE, another with the Grand Princess and the last one to Hawaii and back on the HAL Koningsdam. I did everything they asked and there were no issues in regards to my Travelscoot scooter and the cruise lines.
• I jumped through all of the hoops that were presented to me for all 3 cruises, declaring my scooter's specs. Only after a 2 to 3 weeks delay after booking this proposed cruise did I receive a rather confusing email from somebody in Cunard's Disability department, that I had never received previously.
• Yes, I too just received a new notice 5 days ago from my travel company talking about updates to their mobility scooters policy, so even they are admitting that these restrictions are new. 
• As far as Cunard goes, I travelled on a Cunard ship back in February of 1966, so had a soft spot for this cruise line especially.
• The comment that I would make reading the comments, is that there seems to be a easy willingness to make excuses for cruise lines, while not really being concerned about Human Rights issues and the denial of what was previously allowed (in my case at least).
• I spent a good deal of my life doing my bit for our society, didn't have any issues with using my scooter on those cruises, and now I find myself being denied access to this cruise unless I pay way more, while already paying for near double occupancy for a single person.
• It is easy to accept the loss of rights, but trying to gain them back, not so. One comment that was made by someone who has since deleted it, was made by someone who obviously hadn't considered what it would be like to have disabilities himself, so seemed dismissive. When you can't do what you used to be able to do, then a "slightly" different perspective usually occurs!  

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Sarah W.

[Victoria2]

Sarah W. did you travel with Cunard in an inside cabin with a foldable scooter this year?

 

It is a sad and undeniable fact that the disabled face many challenges, not least with regards to travel but I'm afraid in this case. my sympathies lie with Cunard. I do feel for you in a way but safety at sea is paramount and Cunard has not gone against any human rights or disability policies.

 

[fabnfortysomething]

I discovered Cunard policy re mobility scooters only allowed in accessible cabins ahead of our back to back transatlantic on Qm2 2022

I enquired about hiring mobility scoooter with scootaround and was informed they couldnt supply unless to a diabled cabin -in the end we bought a rollator and took it with us

 

QM2 does have a disproportionate number of diabled cruisers on transatlantic compared to other itineraries and cruise lines

 

However a major criticism of Cunard is their special assistance form which tends to get lost in transit

we got a telling off this year when our names werent on the list of needing assistance despite me sending back form several months earlier

after a written compalint to Cunard they ackowledged there were issues with existing system and say a new system will be in place in future

[Winifred 22]

I still don’t see how Cunard are denying you access to your cruise, they are following their own published rules which they are entitled to do as other posters have established and no rights are being violated. I am sure lots of us on here have contributed to society but I don’t feel it entitles me to any waiver  of a company’s polices to suit my own situation. If you are unhappy or unwilling to pay the supplement for the accessible cabin which will be due to it being a better grade, in a better position and fluid pricing perhaps you could swop to a different cruise where an accessible cabin may be available at a better price. As a solo traveller myself I find the solo supplement premium high but at the end of the day it’s my choice to cruise with Cunard and I pay it because that’s the price of my trip  and  it’s not helpful to dwell on it. 

[Victoria2]

31 minutes ago, fabnfortysomething said:

I discovered Cunard policy re mobility scooters only allowed in accessible cabins ahead of our back to back transatlantic on Qm2 2022

I enquired about hiring mobility scoooter with scootaround and was informed they couldnt supply unless to a diabled cabin -in the end we bought a rollator and took it with us

 

QM2 does have a disproportionate number of diabled cruisers on transatlantic compared to other itineraries and cruise lines

 

However a major criticism of Cunard is their special assistance form which tends to get lost in transit

we got a telling off this year when our names werent on the list of needing assistance despite me sending back form several months earlier

after a written compalint to Cunard they ackowledged there were issues with existing system and say a new system will be in place in future

As you know, I had a  problem and put it down to 'the Gremlins.

 

 I don't think the 22/23 assistance form was particularly difficult to understand or fill in but it seems it was ignored by some who shouldn't have ignored it.

 

The new system is an 'in your face' reminder to look at the accessibility blurb so no-one can say they didn't know, which of course, you and I already 'knew' about! 😃

Edited December 19, 2023 by Victoria2

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, RJChatsworth said:

Isn’t there another reason too in that in an emergency the crew have a limited number of specialised wheelchairs for exiting passengers from ship with no lifts (elevators) working?  This means they can only accommodate a certain number of passengers requiring assistance and it would aid emergency disembarkment if they were in a defined number of cabins  i.e. those classified as disabled cabins.

Unless there is a total blackout of the ship, the most of the elevators do work in emergencies, they are merely switched to "fireman mode" where the floor call buttons don't work.  The only elevators that will be  shut down are those within the fire zone.  There will be crew available to operate the elevators for those who need mobility assistance.

 

The notification of Cunard of someone's personal assistance needs allows Cunard to generate a list of those pax who need assistance, and then crew from the "special needs" team can be directed to find these pax and assist them.  They will not use a powered chair for evacuation.

[chengkp75]

59 minutes ago, Sarah W. said:

The comment that I would make reading the comments, is that there seems to be a easy willingness to make excuses for cruise lines, while not really being concerned about Human Rights issues and the denial of what was previously allowed (in my case at least).

I make no excuses for any cruise line.  However, and I don't know the disability laws in Canada, but in the US, which has the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act), the SCOTUS has ruled a few decades ago, that not all provisions of the ADA apply to foreign flag cruise ships.  They rule that various other laws, like SOLAS, outweigh the ADA as far as accessibility is concerned, meaning that if SOLAS requires a high door sill that would prevent a wheelchair or scooter from using the doorway, then SOLAS wins out.  It sounds like Cunard has had problems with SOLAS compliance (SOLAS does not allow mobility aids to be parked in the passageways), and so are simply tightening up an enforcement policy to meet SOLAS.  SCOTUS also found in the same case, that the "ship's internal policies and procedures" are not subject to the ADA (meaning what policies they formulate to meet SOLAS and still adhere to accessibility standards) can be in violation of what the ADA requires everywhere else in the US.

 

This is why the cruise lines choose to flag their ships in "flag of convenience" nations, they have very little in the way of protections for "protected classes" of people, like those with mobility disabilities.  It is one of the realities one faces when you step on a foreign flag cruise ship.

 

1 hour ago, Sarah W. said:

I spent a good deal of my life doing my bit for our society, didn't have any issues with using my scooter on those cruises, and now I find myself being denied access to this cruise unless I pay way more, while already paying for near double occupancy for a single person.

You are not being denied access, any more than if the only accessible cabins on the ship (not just those available) were more expensive than your original inside cabin.  And, paying a single supplement is no part of the argument, as you would pay the exact same amount for one person or two people when booking a hotel room.

 

I sympathize with your situation, but I feel it is more of a "caveat emptor" situation, where you did not read/understand all the terms and conditions of your booking, regardless of how many previous times you booked a cruise, thinking you met those terms and conditions.

[3rdGenCunarder]

11 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

They haven't tightened up, they have just made the need more prominent for those with mobility needs  who didn't read the T&Cs and turned up only to be denied boarding and for Sarah W. as their policy conforms to EU Passengers Rights, there can be no issue with 'discrimination' issues.

 

Yes, Cunard are definitely making sure people know about the policy. I have three Cunard cruises booked, and in November, I received a separate email for each one of them pointing out the need to inform Cunard of mobility issues. I thought the rule that scooter users must book a HC cabin was not new, but I could be mistaken on that. Here's what the email said: 

 

At Cunard, we do everything possible to ensure our guests have the best experiences on our voyages. We want everyone to enjoy their time on board and make the most of the wonderful worldwide destinations we offer. 

Recently, there have been instances of guests arriving at the terminal with specific on board needs that they did not make us aware of in advance. Unfortunately, to ensure we have sufficient capability to support all our guests at all times, this meant that those guests were unable to board the ship and begin their voyage with us.

We’re reminding you that you must inform us of any mobility or accessibility requirements when making a booking or as soon as possible after your booking is made. This is still the case even if a carer or companion will be supporting you during your time on board. Failure to notify us of these requirements may result in you being denied boarding at your own expense at the cruise terminal. 

It's vital to inform us if, in the unlikely event of an emergency, you would need:

a)    An evacuation chair – this is a mandatory requirement for anyone who is unable to use the stairs due to mobility or other circumstances, or for anyone bringing a wheelchair or mobility scooter.
or
b)    One-to-one assistance – this is a mandatory requirement for anyone who requires someone to guide and steady them on the stairs, due to mobility or other circumstances. For anyone who uses a mobility aid, such as a walking stick or walker, this is the recommended level of assistance.

Please visit My Cunard for more information and, if necessary, to complete the questionnaire or provide a new one if your situation has changed. Please note that you must complete a new questionnaire each time you sail with us, so this applies for all future bookings that you have.

You can email access...@carnivalukgroup.com for further guidance, or if you have booked through a travel agent, your agent will be happy to help. For any further queries, please contact the Cunard Customer Contact Centre on  ‌1-800-728-6273 (local call charges apply).

We'd like to wish you a wonderful voyage. Thank you for choosing Cunard.