Icon pricing off the chain.,

[cruiseboy89130]

13 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I just did two mock bookings online for a 7 day Western Caribbean cruise for an ocean view balcony in October 2024. On Jubilee, Carnival’s newest ship, the cost is $2,366.30 for an ocean view balcony. On Icon, RCI’s newest ship (not including Utopia since she won’t be doing 7 day cruises), the cost is $7,624.68 for an ocean view balcony. So Icon is over three times more expensive than Jubilee for the same cabin type to the same part of the Caribbean. That is a huge difference in my book. I could be wrong, but at some point I think a significant number of people who want to sail on the newest ships are going to decide the experience on RCI is not worth paying over three times more than Carnival. 

+1001

[SUgwoz]

13 hours ago, erby2283 said:

So when I was shopping for our 2024 cruise in Oct 2022, I made a list of ships/itineraries I was looking at and sent it to my TA.  He then came back with group pricing he had.  Now keep in mind, this is for 3 adults and that the NCL pricing includes drinks but as you can see, the Icon pricing was cheaper than Oasis and both NCL cruises at the time.  😲 My point is don't assume you'll never be able to afford what you want - keep checking for group rates and yes, you may possibly have to book far in advance. 

 

I know you can't see my full spreadsheet the pricing goes 1st passenger, 2nd passenger, 3rd passenger, taxes and port fees, and then for NCL drink package for first two adults, total price. All were ocean view balconies. 

 

 

The 5/4 Icon sailing when booking for 3/4 guest cabins in Sept-Oct 2023 was at similar prices.  Via big box TA, it included about $500 worth of add-ons.

[nhraformula00]

5 hours ago, ChutChut said:

That's still pretty inflated for an inside cabin. I used to get 10-day inside for two people for $1,800 (inclusive of tax/fees). 

It is a brand new ship and 95% of the people booking inside cabins on it are paying 1,800- 2,500 per person before taxes and port charges. That is what this thread is about. I'm pointing out it can be cheaper if you look in the right direction. Like 1/2 price. It's all about supply and demand. When demand is high, so is pricing. It's all about knowing where to look.

[The Scurvy Pirate]

For giggles, looked out to October 2025 for Icon.  You can get the Royal Loft Suite for the low, low price of $41,118 .... per person.... for a seven night cruise.  Can't imagine paying $82K plus for two people for a seven night cruise.  Although with the kids sale free its the same $82K...

Edited February 14 by The Scurvy Pirate

[Engineroom Snipe]

4 minutes ago, The Scurvy Pirate said:

For giggles, looked out to October 2025 for Icon.  You can get the Royal Loft Suite for the low, low price of $41,118 .... per person.... for a seven night cruise.  Can't imagine paying $160K plus for a family of four for a seven night cruise.

That is just the starting price.

 

I am sure you can haggle them down to $39,999 per person but they might take away the kids sail free discount.

 

🤣

[Joebucks]

15 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

Older ships are 100% profitable... they have zero debt. I asked Capt Mathias about this last year on Rhapsody. I also asked this question on 3 separate Capt Corners a few months ago (during "Discovery Project" discussion) with regard to capital cost depreciation of the newer ships vs. older ships which have already been fully depreciated. The older ships are "paid off".

 

Their problem is their life span and cost of operating... like an old car with 250,000 miles, if the engine blows up, do you replace a $5000 engine into a car that's worth only $1000? Same with a older ship. At some point keeping that ship healthy, running and especially modernized & up to current clientele standards won't make sense. For now, keep changing the oil and cross fingers (& toes)

 

There are more problems than that. Otherwise, the seas would be loaded with older ships. Even though an older ship may be paid off, you can't ignore the fact that a newer ship might still get 2-5x higher fare multiples. This is why companies take on debt, because they believe the ROI will be worth it. As you hint on with your engine comparison, ships need dry docks, upgrades, maintenance, etc. Is it worth putting hundreds of millions into old ships (suddenly, the paid off theory really no longer applies) or is it better off to put that money towards something that will attract more interest and upsells onboard? 

[irun5k]

20 hours ago, soremekun said:

A transatlantic interests me but I couldn't last that long in the air (flying there or back home).  I absolutely hate flying.  I wish I could be unconscious during flights. I fly fairly often but just cannot shake this flight anxiety.

Can you imagine being one of the few that actually traveled transatlantic when airships were in service?  Seems like science fiction but it was actually the 1920's-30's. 

[PhillyFan33579]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

There are more problems than that. Otherwise, the seas would be loaded with older ships. Even though an older ship may be paid off, you can't ignore the fact that a newer ship might still get 2-5x higher fare multiples. This is why companies take on debt, because they believe the ROI will be worth it. As you hint on with your engine comparison, ships need dry docks, upgrades, maintenance, etc. Is it worth putting hundreds of millions into old ships (suddenly, the paid off theory really no longer applies) or is it better off to put that money towards something that will attract more interest and upsells onboard? 

I assume RCI knows exactly how much revenue it needs each cruise for a ship to remain a productive asset. For example, as long as Grandeur is generating enough revenue it will likely continue to keep sailing. Once it gets to the point it isn’t generating enough revenue is likely when Grandeur will be removed from the fleet. I realize I am over simplifying the process and there are likely numerous factors that determine when it is time to remove a ship from the current fleet. 

[BecciBoo]

3 hours ago, irun5k said:

I wish I could be unconscious during flights.

I always am......LOL  I know irun5k didn't say that, Soremekun did.

Edited February 14 by BecciBoo

[Twenty2020]

On 2/13/2024 at 7:24 PM, erby2283 said:

So when I was shopping for our 2024 cruise in Oct 2022, I made a list of ships/itineraries I was looking at and sent it to my TA.  He then came back with group pricing he had.  Now keep in mind, this is for 3 adults and that the NCL pricing includes drinks but as you can see, the Icon pricing was cheaper than Oasis and both NCL cruises at the time.  😲 My point is don't assume you'll never be able to afford what you want - keep checking for group rates and yes, you may possibly have to book far in advance. 

 

I know you can't see my full spreadsheet the pricing goes 1st passenger, 2nd passenger, 3rd passenger, taxes and port fees, and then for NCL drink package for first two adults, total price. All were ocean view balconies. 

 

Yes there were group rates on Icon that were still 'normal'... Even as of a few weeks ago when I looked there were some available into next year. But they are getting picked off quickly and once they are gone, well there is nothing like them going forward. Nothing close. Think double what you paid going forward. I don't think there are any past April 2025. After that everyone is SOL. 

 

Looking at next year you could probably book a true luxury line cruise for comparable $ as Icon/Star. 

Edited February 15 by Twenty2020

[goldfish65]

Right now, Icon is an experience you can't get anywhere else. So they can price it as such. If they lower the price, they lose some cache' and once that's gone, it's gone. 

[bajathree]

Oasis class ships were the same...priced crazy high for the first season....wait a year and pricing will drop to less than half. They keep pricing crazy high on the newest ship....it makes things look more attractively priced for the rest of the fleet. Have to fill the "older" ships first, they know they can always book out the latest ship last minute if they need. They will also keep it priced crazy high and comp it out to Club Royal and such before lowering pricing. I have already received Utopia offers via Club Royale.

Edited February 15 by bajathree

[firefly333]

Just my thoughts. Expedia had a earnings call 4 days ago. See this sell off? What they said was demand for travel is dropping. Those after covid who would pay anything are gone. You already see casino deals for icon. They say they are not sailing full right away, because they want to make sure everything is right, could it be people just didnt book and that why icon was sailing less than full. 

 

I booked this xmas and solo code was working. I booked 6 months after others on my roll call. People want you to believe rcl is so inept for 6 months they couldn't fix it so the code quit working. I see other holiday dates that I can book cheaper with the code working booking direct, for thanksgiving xmas and even new years eve on older ships for 2025 too. Rcl inept or having trouble filling older ships. Someone this morning said they are light consumer service stocks. Coke and Heinz earnings said their pricing power is falling, consumers are pushing back against higher prices. 

 

I've seen sites with cheaper icon prices, imo to fill ships, then they act like demand isnt falling off. I see signs the consumer is pushing back at higher prices. Here is EXPE chart after they said they see travel demand falling. You can see on the chart where they had their earnings call. Time imo to sit back and wait ... deals will be back. Give it some time. 

 

[PhillyFan33579]

9 hours ago, goldfish65 said:

Right now, Icon is an experience you can't get anywhere else. So they can price it as such. If they lower the price, they lose some cache' and once that's gone, it's gone. 

I was on the second Icon cruise (2/3). Just my view, but the experience was very similar to an Oasis class ship. There were some things I liked better like the waterpark and some things I didn’t like with no Solarium being a big negative. While overall I enjoyed the ship I would not pay the current prices to cruise on Icon. Keep in mind RCI can only charge what the market allows. It’s the demand that has sent Icon prices skyrocketing. When you could first book Icon, I booked two cruises for very reasonable prices. Since that time prices have literally more than tripled what I paid 

[Engineroom Snipe]

12 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Just my thoughts. Expedia had a earnings call 4 days ago. See this sell off? What they said was demand for travel is dropping. Those after covid who would pay anything are gone. You already see casino deals for icon. They say they are not sailing full right away, because they want to make sure everything is right, could it be people just didnt book and that why icon was sailing less than full. 

 

I booked this xmas and solo code was working. I booked 6 months after others on my roll call. People want you to believe rcl is so inept for 6 months they couldn't fix it so the code quit working. I see other holiday dates that I can book cheaper with the code working booking direct, for thanksgiving xmas and even new years eve on older ships for 2025 too. Rcl inept or having trouble filling older ships. Someone this morning said they are light consumer service stocks. Coke and Heinz earnings said their pricing power is falling, consumers are pushing back against higher prices. 

 

I've seen sites with cheaper icon prices, imo to fill ships, then they act like demand isnt falling off. I see signs the consumer is pushing back at higher prices. Here is EXPE chart after they said they see travel demand falling. You can see on the chart where they had their earnings call. Time imo to sit back and wait ... deals will be back. Give it some time. 

 

That is a sharp drop-off and not much of a dead cat bounce.

 

I can give you an example of a small ship occupancy which I think is telling.

 

I have been tracking the Vision out of Baltimore on August 8th, 2024, for a nine day cruise. The ship stops at Coco Cay which enhances the prospect of getting families onboard. The ship does not have the family amenities of the larger ships. Since, for the most part, school is still out, I would expect this cruise to be full as it was last year at this time six months out (revenge travel, cost no object).

 

I do not like to cruise during the summer for various reasons but I was tracking this to look at small snippets to see how fast cabins are filling up. 

 

A weekly review of interior rooms (without counting connecting interiors in the number) has remained at 100 rooms since December 12, 2023.

 

There have been no price decrease during this time period.

 

RCI must feel that their price is competitive and waiting for cruisers to make last minute decisions before lowering the price.

 

I sense a cat and mouse game going on.

[firefly333]

4 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

That is a sharp drop-off and not much of a dead cat bounce.

 

I can give you an example of a small ship occupancy which I think is telling.

 

I have been tracking the Vision out of Baltimore on August 8th, 2024, for a nine day cruise. The ship stops at Coco Cay which enhances the prospect of getting families onboard. The ship does not have the family amenities of the larger ships. Since, for the most part, school is still out, I would expect this cruise to be full as it was last year at this time six months out (revenge travel, cost no object).

 

I do not like to cruise during the summer for various reasons but I was tracking this to look at small snippets to see how fast cabins are filling up. 

 

A weekly review of interior rooms (without counting connecting interiors in the number) has remained at 100 rooms since December 12, 2023.

 

There have been no price decrease during this time period.

 

RCI must feel that their price is competitive and waiting for cruisers to make last minute decisions before lowering the price.

 

I sense a cat and mouse game going on.

There was a post from a TA that rcl is hiding inventory, not showing it all at once even to TAs. 

 

Airbnb also had bad earnings. The bloom is off the rose on people renting and then getting charged high cleaning fees perhaps. These could also be the canaries in the cold mine. Didnt rcl just announce yet another oasis class ship for 2028. Consumers are starting to tire. 

 

Imo demand is dropping. Record earnings over last year from rcl, but there are signs for those of us who follow the stock market. 

[Engineroom Snipe]

3 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

There was a post from a TA that rcl is hiding inventory, not showing it all at once even to TAs. 

 

Airbnb also had bad earnings. The bloom is off the rose on people renting and then getting charged high cleaning fees perhaps. These could also be the canaries in the cold mine. Didnt rcl just announce yet another oasis class ship for 2028. Consumers are starting to tire. 

 

Imo demand is dropping. Record earnings over last year from rcl, but there are signs for those of us who follow the stock market. 

You and I have discussed how repeat customers might do less cruises per year (like myself, one instead of three) or worse, take a hiatus from cruising in response to the sharp price increases, once a day cleaning, and reduced food options (do not want to get into any discussion on that, we have hit these items so many times and I know there are those who might vehemently disagree with my opinions).

 

It would take at least two years to affect Royal's bottom line since repeat cruisers tend to reserve far in advance allowing the cruise line to charge top dollar for the remaining rooms as it approaches embarkation.

 

When do you think Royal is going to retreat a bit?

[Twenty2020]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I was on the second Icon cruise (2/3). Just my view, but the experience was very similar to an Oasis class ship. There were some things I liked better like the waterpark and some things I didn’t like with no Solarium being a big negative. While overall I enjoyed the ship I would not pay the current prices to cruise on Icon. Keep in mind RCI can only charge what the market allows. It’s the demand that has sent Icon prices skyrocketing. When you could first book Icon, I booked two cruises for very reasonable prices. Since that time prices have literally more than tripled what I paid 

 

Yeah I see there are some amenities here and there that are different. But the overall structure and layout of the ship is a lot more like an Oasis class ship than not. 

 

People are making it out to be more than it is.

 

Seems to me this is closer of when RCI went from Voyager class --> Freedom class.... Rather than say,  Freedom class --> Oasis class

[Engineroom Snipe]

5 minutes ago, Twenty2020 said:

 

Yeah I see there are some amenities here and there that are different. But the overall structure and layout of the ship is a lot more like an Oasis class ship than not. 

 

People are making it out to be more than it is.

 

Seems to me this is closer of when RCI went from Voyager class --> Freedom class.... Rather than say,  Freedom class --> Oasis class

We know that most of the Caribbean cruise ships have about 30 feet of draft underwater. The only way to make them bigger is to make them a combination of longer and wider.

 

Maybe making another quantum leap in size might overwhelm the capacity of existing ports and doom them to specific docks?

 

Following up on your thought that there was not a completely different feel from the Oasis class.

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

You and I have discussed how repeat customers might do less cruises per year (like myself, one instead of three) or worse, take a hiatus from cruising in response to the sharp price increases, once a day cleaning, and reduced food options (do not want to get into any discussion on that, we have hit these items so many times and I know there are those who might vehemently disagree with my opinions).

 

It would take at least two years to affect Royal's bottom line since repeat cruisers tend to reserve far in advance allowing the cruise line to charge top dollar for the remaining rooms as it approaches embarkation.

 

When do you think Royal is going to retreat a bit?

I dont see rcl retreating but I think prices will get softer as they add inventory. Last release I found same ole and booked a TA and this release this week, nothing. I think I'm burnt out on what I'm spending to cruise. Not getting the value from what I'm spending. Not on strike but not feeling like booking either. Going on what I booked but not booking more at this time. 

 

Moving to PC and had in mind cruising more but  might cruise less, or less royal. Makes no sense to book the same ports and ships I already have booked for ever higher prices. There are a group of posters here who seem to book at any price. I've hit my wall. Lol and still moving to PC. 

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

We know that most of the Caribbean cruise ships have about 30 feet of draft underwater. The only way to make them bigger is to make them a combination of longer and wider.

 

Maybe making another quantum leap in size might overwhelm the capacity of existing ports and doom them to specific docks?

 

Following up on your thought that there was not a completely different feel from the Oasis class.

I was also thinking about carnival is bringing in a 4th LNG ship they announced. How many ports set up for LNG, how hard is it to set up. 

[Engineroom Snipe]

6 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I was also thinking about carnival is bringing in a 4th LNG ship they announced. How many ports set up for LNG, how hard is it to set up. 

That was discussed in another post. I know Port Canaveral, Florida has barges filling ships with LNG.

Galveston,Texas, has a contract supplier too.

[goldfish65]

1 hour ago, Twenty2020 said:

 

 

People are making it out to be more than it is.

 

 

 

Royal hyped it so much! The best vacation land or sea bar none, they claim. 

Pricing is tricky but they seem pretty good at it. If they make it cheaper and get too trashy of a crowd, then they will alienate people who have real money, and people (such as myself) who pretend to have money but don't want to "lie down with dogs." Just my opinion. 🙂

High-end resorts that I know of are keeping their prices high right now, even though it creates lower occupancy. 

 

[Hoopster95]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Just my thoughts. Expedia had a earnings call 4 days ago. See this sell off?

 

I know a very successful TA. She has been telling me since last August that demand was down and getting lower. Regarding cruising/RC I have recently booked Brilliance AT LESS than any price available from day 1 deployed to final payment date. Other cruise lines like NCL have give away pricing on several ships and itineraries. I am looking at Barcelona flights Toronto-Barcelona in May $475 Canadian one-way. There are a ton of deals out there for next year as it seems every airline and every tour company (Gate1, Trafalgar, etc) have great sales right now and into 2025.

 

And we'll all see how the recession affects travel by end of 2024.

[Engineroom Snipe]

6 minutes ago, goldfish65 said:

 

High-end resorts that I know of are keeping their prices high right now, even though it creates lower occupancy. 

 

That is what I think is happening with Royal pricing.

 

They have been able to bounce the "retail" prices to higher levels in the 2023 year of revenge travel with almost near total occupancy on multiple ships during the 3rd and 4th quarter of 2023.

 

The CEO is stating that 2024 bookings are stronger than ever and cruisers are spending more onboard than before.

 

Maybe better to allow a larger percentage of cabins go empty and keep existing cruisers at a higher price point?