Oceania Decline

[njhorseman]

54 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

so the range of $16-25 quoted in the article is not completely far fetched? In fact, it seems pretty accurate. And this is exactly why they provided a range and not a number. In any case, saving on those fees doesn’t sounds like a huge incentive for a cruise line to cancel ports..

It's too low.

I think the author is taking the port fees divided by the total number of days in the cruise, which includes sea days, to get that dollar range. 

That understates the port fees per day when the ship is actually in port, which can be $40 or $50...or even more in some places.

[mamaclark]

I learned so much from all of you, thank you. At this juncture, so much of this is beyond my pay grade. Over and out.

[ak1004]

13 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

It's too low.

I think the author is taking the port fees divided by the total number of days in the cruise, which includes sea days, to get that dollar range. 

That understates the port fees per day when the ship is actually in port, which can be $40 or $50...or even more in some places.

 

Well, I provided one source that says it's $16-25. You dismissed it without providing any other source. I also provided few examples of Azamara cruises that mention port fees that are in a similar range. You provided no data.

 

I'm really not sure what you are trying to prove, but at this point I don't really see any point to continue arguing. We can just agree to disagree.

[osandomir]

15 hours ago, QuestionEverything said:

 

My TA who knows O very, very well has had many complaints from his clients about O's port disruptions, I enquired of him about this topic and yesterday he emailed that about 1/2 of his O clients are now booking Regent etc to ensure itinerary. 

This is a real issue and a fundamental one for many O customers.

 

 

The itinerary changes became a major concern for Oceania customers lately. Switching to Regent is great for those who can afford Regent’s prices - not much for others. Maybe your informed TA has a solution for the customers who are loyal to Oceania.

[Mareblu]

It's interesting that of all the lines on which we've sailed, Oceania is the only one that has made itinerary changes over the years.  This has never concerned us, as there haven't been many, and there was always, in our view, a valid reason for the Captain's decision. 

 

One was a hurricane (we say cyclone in Australia) that was raging in the North Sea after causing havoc in the US (it was widely reported on the news and clearly visible on weather radar), a similar situation (strong storm causing rough seas in the Bay of Biscay) and lately, a switch on our April 24 (next month) Med cruise on Vista.  Santorini, Crete and Kotor have been substituted for Kusadasi and an overnight in Istanbul.   Oceania has stated this is due to Middle East unrest.  We are fortunate in that we have travelled extensively in Turkey, but I know this will be a disappointment for many, including our friends who are travelling with us.  They are, however, looking forward to all the Greek Island stops, as they've never been there either.

 

At the end of the day, we know changes may be made at any time, and we're happy to "go with the flow" (pun intended) and simply enjoy our cruising experience.

[Queen of DaNile]

47 minutes ago, Mareblu said:

 ",,,and lately, a switch on our April 24 (next month) Med cruise on Vista.  Santorini, Crete and Kotor have been substituted for Kusadasi and an overnight in Istanbul.   Oceania has stated this is due to Middle East unrest."  

Thanks for sharing this. This is what I fear may happen to our July cruise where we have an overnight in Istanbul at the end...and why I chose to have Oceania make our return air arrangements. Not sure where the cruise may end so we'll let them figure it out.

[Vallesan]

16 minutes ago, Queen of DaNile said:

Thanks for sharing this. This is what I fear may happen to our July cruise where we have an overnight in Istanbul at the end...and why I chose to have Oceania make our return air arrangements. Not sure where the cruise may end so we'll let them figure it out.

I have similar concerns for our September/ October cruise which also has an overnight in Istanbul. For us it’s the middle of a B2B so it is an embarkation/debarkation port.

 

As Mareblu says we can only ‘go with the flow’!

[Queen of DaNile]

6 hours ago, Vallesan said:

I have similar concerns for our September/ October cruise which also has an overnight in Istanbul. For us it’s the middle of a B2B so it is an embarkation/debarkation port.

 

As Mareblu says we can only ‘go with the flow’!

My guess is if they drop Turkiye from the itinerary, we'll disembark in Athens. Works for me. Got a good cabin at a good price so floating around the eastern Med won't be a hardship :).

[Harters]

15 minutes ago, Queen of DaNile said:

My guess is if they drop Turkiye from the itinerary

As things stand, I really can't see any good reason to drop Turkey.  Istanbul is well away from the current conflict zone - about 2000km. Nor is the country at all likely to take unilateral military action. making it a target for the Israeli government .

 

It is another question whether the current stance of the US government towards the conflict, might make Americans feel less secure in a country where government policy is generally supportive of the Palestinian nationhood. 

 

I wouldnt have any  qualms about visiting much of Turkey (as some 3 million Britons do each year) and, in particular, Istanbul (which my nephew is due to visit for several days in a few weeks time). Our government only advises against travel to the part of Turkey which borders Syria. 

[QuestionEverything]

9 hours ago, osandomir said:

The itinerary changes became a major concern for Oceania customers lately. Switching to Regent is great for those who can afford Regent’s prices - not much for others. Maybe your informed TA has a solution for the customers who are loyal to Oceania.

Thanks for your post. 

My TA did not get into detail because my query was about the port issue, he knows the volumetrics.

Someone earlier made a good point about how O's SM is a corporate decision to get O closer to the premium line competitors, one thing I note is that my household and our cruising friends specifically chose O because we could customize - that was a compelling factor in cruising with O versus the others in the category. This is now gone. This makes it more likely that we all will choose other lines or not cruise at all.

The analysis on this thread is amazing and shows the knowledge of many consumers.

I am holding back booking on O until I determine there is some settling down regarding port items.

Stay well everyone.

[Hlitner]

9 hours ago, osandomir said:

The itinerary changes became a major concern for Oceania customers lately. Switching to Regent is great for those who can afford Regent’s prices - not much for others. Maybe your informed TA has a solution for the customers who are loyal to Oceania.

For many years I have simply laughed at this "loyalty" thing about cruise lines.  Certainly cruise on lines you like.  But being "loyal" is just silly.  If there is to be any loyalty it should be the cruise lines being loyal to their customers by maintaining their standards!

 

Last year we met a cruising couple who told us, over cccktails, that they were not sure they would book any more cruises.  They had over 500 days on HAL, but said that they now found the line somewhat boring, the menus repetitive, entertainment the same old same old.  They ask DW and I about a few other non-cruise options that we like.

 

This couple told us they had not been on any other line for over 20 years and that they were "loyal" to HAL.  When I suggested they might not be bored or find things repetitive if they tried a different cruise line they said they would not feel comfortable on any other line because of their loyalty to HAL.  Go figure.  

 

I think that the primary reason that DW and I love cruising (after far more then 1500 days on cruise ships) and travel is because we enjoy variety.  We go on many different cruise lines (#17 and cruise line 18 are booked this year) and travel all over the world (have yet to get to Antarctica).  For us, every time we walk up the gangway it is exciting..as is every trip.  If we start getting bored with a place we simply go elsewhere.  Cruises never get boring because there are always different ships (we have been on far more then 70 different ships) and different lines.  Each line has their unique menus, entertainment, etc.

 

I like the saying , "keep it exciting, try something new."

 

Hank

[kirtihk]

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Edited March 5 by kirtihk

[kirtihk]

12 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

For many years I have simply laughed at this "loyalty" thing about cruise lines.  Certainly cruise on lines you like.  But being "loyal" is just silly.  If there is to be any loyalty it should be the cruise lines being loyal to their customers by maintaining their standards!

 

Last year we met a cruising couple who told us, over cccktails, that they were not sure they would book any more cruises.  They had over 500 days on HAL, but said that they now found the line somewhat boring, the menus repetitive, entertainment the same old same old.  They ask DW and I about a few other non-cruise options that we like.

 

This couple told us they had not been on any other line for over 20 years and that they were "loyal" to HAL.  When I suggested they might not be bored or find things repetitive if they tried a different cruise line they said they would not feel comfortable on any other line because of their loyalty to HAL.  Go figure.

It's not a loyalty to a cruise line, it is a loyalty in one's brain to own standards/comfort zone/habits/attitude/patterns/dependencies/addictions/fondness/emotions/and perhaps, inferiority complex.

[Hlitner]

7 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

It's not a loyalty to a cruise line, it is a loyalty in one's brain to own standards/comfort zone/habits/attitude/patterns/dependencies/addictions/fondness/emotions/and perhaps, inferiority complex.

When I think of loyalty it is to DW, family, friends, and country.  To a cruise line, airline, hotel chain, etc?  No way!  They must all work to earn our loyalty and that would only be valid for the current booking which one could argue means we have no loyalty to these kind of entities.

 

Hank

 

[kirtihk]

4 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

When I think of loyalty it is to DW, family, friends, and country.  To a cruise line, airline, hotel chain, etc?  No way!  They must all work to earn our loyalty and that would only be valid for the current booking.

 

Hank

 

Absolutely! Awkwardly, many cruise lines are slowly going away from loyalty while the majority of airlines had completed this task.

Edited March 5 by kirtihk

[mamaclark]

29 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

keep it exciting, try something new."

 

Yes, and we are looking at train travel!

[Vallesan]

2 hours ago, Queen of DaNile said:

My guess is if they drop Turkiye from the itinerary, we'll disembark in Athens. Works for me. Got a good cabin at a good price so floating around the eastern Med won't be a hardship :).

We booked B2B so as not to have to travel via Istanbul airport …. been there, done that, don’t really want to repeat it!

 

As you say, whatever happens it will be no hardship ‘floating around the eastern Med’ even if we do repeat ports. We will still be waited on well and I won’t have to say ‘what shall we have for dinner tonight?’ as I do each morning!

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, kirtihk said:

Absolutely! Awkwardly, many cruise lines are slowly going away from loyalty while the majority of airlines had completed this task.

Like I said, I do not understand this entire "loyalty thing."  Then again, HAL fans nearly revolted when HAL said they were going to stop giving out their "tinny" medallions that some folks actually wear around their necks :).  Whatever floats one's boat!

 

There is the issue of loyalty programs where folks really covet getting a perk that might save them a few dollars on an expensive cruise.  That being said, we find it interesting that the new Explora Journeys cruise line, which is a very high-end luxury line with the deep pockets of MSC, has yet to even start a cruise "loyalty" program after 10 months in operation.  And MSC cruise lines (one of the larger cruise lines in the world) has a loyalty program where one's level (and perks) expire after 3 years of not booking a cruise.  That line routinely gives past cruisers a 5% discount off the cruise fare.  While this is real money, the reality is that veterans and some other folks can actually qualify for 10% off without ever having taken a cruise.  And one of our cruise agents (who has been in the business for decades) tells me that some cruise lines (especially HAL) is more likely to give a free upgrade to a first-time cruiser than their most loyal repeaters.  Why?  Apparently, the cruise lines understand that repeaters who are always loyal do not need much incentive to book.  But a first time cruiser needs lots of encouragement.

 

We do like some of our "loyalty" benefits we get from various cruise lines, but it has never influenced the line we book.  The thought of spending $10,000, $20,000 or more and letting free laundry be the deciding factor is laughable (to us).  

[Vineyard View]

Same true with Viking. They offer a past cruise discount of $100/pp. sometimes they have a ‘promotion’ of ‘double discount’. No other program. Yet they continue to have their loyal fans agreeing to pay the steeply increased fares and they keep filling their ships. We were ‘loyal’ for a few years after stepping up from mainstream and HAL.  Sailed on Vikong’s inaugural first ocean ship, etc. But post Covid their constant repeated Mediterranean itineraries for years, and prices now above the ‘luxury’ lines due to their ‘included excursions’ prompted us to explore. I am glad we are exploring. 

[ORV]

3 hours ago, mamaclark said:

Yes, and we are looking at train travel!

If you are planning on Amtrak prepare to be disappointed. We traveled from Chicago to New Orleans about 25 years ago and it was great. We were in their best sleeper car and they actually had fantastic food prepared on the train by a chef. Fastforward to a 2019 or so and we did the Empire Builder from Chicago to Seattle with a stop in Glacier National park in Montana. Rooms were dirty, dining room had stuff piled up in the corner. Food was pre-prepared box lunches and dinners like you get in Coach on airlines. Truly bad. Other than our room attendant most of the workers were sub par. The best part of the trip was Chicago beforehand, the two days at Glacier, and Seattle, and it sure ain't what it used to be. We were also in the best sleeper car they offer on this trip also. 

[Hlitner]

4 hours ago, mamaclark said:

Yes, and we are looking at train travel!

There are good trains in Europe and Japan.  However, you are on your own with luggage and train stations can be huge.

 

Hank

[FetaCheese]

@Vineyard View

I note that Viking has introduced several new Med itins.  Agree that their fares are high.  They have sales promos which do lower the cost.  I'm not a V cheerleader, but will be going on 4th V cruise, over 3 1/2 years.

Edited March 5 by FetaCheese
Addl info

[mamaclark]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There are good trains in Europe and Japan.  However, you are on your own with luggage and train stations can be huge.

 

Hank

We used trains for a trip from Budapest - Vienna - Prague. Trains were on time, clean and comfortable. We absolutely loved it! I do agree with your stations and luggage statement though. Now I am looking at luxury train travel with time spent on and off the train and someone else handling all the details.😁

[Vineyard View]

2 hours ago, FetaCheese said:

@Vineyard View

I note that Viking has introduced several new Med itins.  Agree that their fares are high.  They have sales promos which do lower the cost.  I'm not a V cheerleader, but will be going on 4th V cruise, over 3 1/2 years.

Thank you FetaCheese. I looked at our travel time of Apr/May 2025 and really didn’t see anything other than they have been offering for years. I will take a second look. After sailing on SB I am not really sure that they are worth paying more for though. We don’t take ship excursions, so that is not the draw for us that it is for many in paying extra. 

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, mamaclark said:

We used trains for a trip from Budapest - Vienna - Prague. Trains were on time, clean and comfortable. We absolutely loved it! I do agree with your stations and luggage statement though. Now I am looking at luxury train travel with time spent on and off the train and someone else handling all the details.😁

We have read about some luxury trains (quite pricey) in India which sound quite interesting.