Has Silversea Really Changed That Much?

[fdnycruiser]

Just wondering what the opinions of Colonel Wes are on this. Although, I don’t read every thread, I haven’t seen him on here for awhile. Anyone know where he is, or how he’s doing.

[jpalbny]

Wes is on Silver Cloud doing an Indian Ocean Grand Voyage. He's been on for a while and he won't disembark until we get on in Darwin, June 9th.

[shipsmail]

Sorry to read here all these negative stories about food etc.

At least here on the ENDEAVOUR everything is perfectly right with Silversea service. Very good food, very good service. Maybe the choices of food are a little more limited compared to earlier cruises. I am really enjoying the Silversea experience as I knew it from many years.

[RELS]

1 hour ago, shipsmail said:

here on the ENDEAVOUR everything is perfectly right with Silversea

 

This is reassuring! We're on Endeavour in July and are hoping for a good sail. The information for port-to-port guests has been confusing and uneven (where, exactly, does the last charter flight drop us?), but with luck they'll get that straightened out by early June.

[ak1004]

On 4/13/2024 at 11:07 AM, yayoye said:

In the last 2 years I've been on a 25 day Silver Dawn transatlantic crossing, a 10 day Mediterranean cruise on Oceania, and I just completed a 16 night cruise on Silver Nova from Fort Lauderdale to Lima.  The Silver Dawn crossing was wonderful and just like the Silversea I expected.  The Oceania cruise was so bad I wrote a 9 page letter of complaint to the President of the company (and got no response - not even a form letter of acknowledgement of receipt).  However, even though the Silver Nova cruise was much better than the Oceania cruise, it was not up to the standards of the 2022 cruise on the Dawn.  Note that all of these are post covid and post acquisition of Silversea by RCCL.  

 

My assessment is that Silversea went from First Class to Business Class.  My main concern is that while you can get pretty much anything you ask for, you need to know to ask and sometimes you need to ask the most senior staff person to get it.  Many aspects of the cruise were great and most of the staff were excellent, but some seemed to understand that they could have done things the old, proactive way, but were now constrained by corporate rules such that they had to wait to be asked.  Also the excursions were never more than 25 people in 2022, but in 2024, 40 became the norm, or perhaps even a few more if the buses could hold more.  Included excursions are no longer a luxury experience.  Staff became more sensitive to my concerns following the mid cruise survey, but I was also highly encouraged to fill in the end of cruise survey as comprehensively as possible as that is the survey that goes to head office.  

 

I have another cruise booked for this September on the Muse and hope that all of the changes will not have filtered down to that ship.  I also have another cruise booked on the Muse for 2025.  This is the first time I did not book a future cruise while on board.  I am now willing to try other cruise lines.

 

We sailed twice on SS and 3 times on O in the last 3 years. We had a great time on both, and considered SS a very small step up compared to O, definitely not worth the huge premium they charge for 2025 cruises. To me, they are in the same category, and O food is better in my opinion. We had similar experience with excursions (close to 40 people on both lines), but with O you at least have an option to take private tours, while on SS the excursions are included.

 

I'm curious what was so bad about Oceania?

[yayoye]

RE: Oceania issues - I won't mention them all as no one here wants a 9 page letter!  Just a few points.  We had afternoon tea twice.  The first time we had to chase down teaspoons.  We asked 3 times and finally got up and found them ourselves.  The second time, the water for the tea was cold.  I saw them remove an entire urn of water after we complained so obviously they did not put boiling water in it for tea.

We had issues with virtually all of the excursions - one guide broke the law (which we found out after the fact), one guide shorted us 1 hour on the excursion - 30 minutes of which was time at the highlighted site; and in Istanbul the guide did not want to allow any bathroom breaks on a 5 hour tour and, because the tour started late due to Turkish immigration, he wanted to cut out the visit to the Grand Bazaar on the basis we would return late to the ship.  Yes, but we started late and the ship was not departing Istanbul until the following day.  Everyone complained and he finally completed the tour. These were Oceania ship tours which we paid for.

Every bottle of white wine was warm - not room temperature, but actually warm.  Two bottles of red wine were corked.  I was not "allowed" to order a bottle of wine from the Jacques restaurant wine list when we ate in the steak restaurant.  Why not?  I was paying for it and I was told previously that all the wines are stored centrally. 

The steak teriyaki in Red Ginger was inedible and certainly not teriyaki flavoured (I am ethnically Japanese).  To give the chef credit, he came out to see what was wrong when notified that we wouldn't be eating the steak.  He admitted that he had trained in Japan and that he knew it was not a good teriyaki recipe, but he had to cook the "corporate recipe". 

 

The staff were nice and many tried their best, but these and many other issues just kept cropping up.

 

This is a small sample of the issues we encountered.  There were many more.

[ak1004]

29 minutes ago, yayoye said:

RE: Oceania issues - I won't mention them all as no one here wants a 9 page letter!  Just a few points.  We had afternoon tea twice.  The first time we had to chase down teaspoons.  We asked 3 times and finally got up and found them ourselves.  The second time, the water for the tea was cold.  I saw them remove an entire urn of water after we complained so obviously they did not put boiling water in it for tea.

We had issues with virtually all of the excursions - one guide broke the law (which we found out after the fact), one guide shorted us 1 hour on the excursion - 30 minutes of which was time at the highlighted site; and in Istanbul the guide did not want to allow any bathroom breaks on a 5 hour tour and, because the tour started late due to Turkish immigration, he wanted to cut out the visit to the Grand Bazaar on the basis we would return late to the ship.  Yes, but we started late and the ship was not departing Istanbul until the following day.  Everyone complained and he finally completed the tour. These were Oceania ship tours which we paid for.

Every bottle of white wine was warm - not room temperature, but actually warm.  Two bottles of red wine were corked.  I was not "allowed" to order a bottle of wine from the Jacques restaurant wine list when we ate in the steak restaurant.  Why not?  I was paying for it and I was told previously that all the wines are stored centrally. 

The steak teriyaki in Red Ginger was inedible and certainly not teriyaki flavoured (I am ethnically Japanese).  To give the chef credit, he came out to see what was wrong when notified that we wouldn't be eating the steak.  He admitted that he had trained in Japan and that he knew it was not a good teriyaki recipe, but he had to cook the "corporate recipe". 

 

The staff were nice and many tried their best, but these and many other issues just kept cropping up.

 

This is a small sample of the issues we encountered.  There were many more.

 

Thank you for sharing.

 

If chasing down teaspoons was among the worst things from the 9 page letter, then I'm not really worried about Oceania future.

 

btw, on our 2 SS cruise we had to "chase down" Perrier, cappuccino and sometimes even plain water many times. Would never cross my mind to call it a bad cruise, but I guess it's matter of attitude. 

[yayoye]

I would have laughed off teaspoons but dealing with poor service day after day got tiring fast.  I did fill in the mid cruise questionnaire and staff did respond.  If I paid a lot of money for a Silversea cruise and experienced chasing down items as often as you did, I would have called it poor service too on a cruise that calls itself luxury.  My prior experiences on Silversea going back to perhaps 2014 is that staff were always at the ready and proactive about things like water and drinks.  Upon embarking Silver CIoud in 2022 after an absence of 3 years, my companion was recognized by the bar tender and told his favourite beer was on the way without even being ordered.  That was the old Silversea.

 

And an excursion guide breaking the law is certainly worthy of complaint in my mind.

 

But yes- everyone has their own tolerance level.  I also sailed on Celebrity Summit in 2022 and have absolutely no complaints about the service.  

[ak1004]

I didn't sail on SS pre Covid so cannot compare.

 

But when comparing service on SS and O, I would say that general service on both was between very good and excellent, with some issues that I would consider relatively minor.

 

But the problem is that since SS is significantly more expensive, you would expect it to be much better. To me, I would say they were comparable.

 

Excursions were mixed bag on both. Both squeezed around 40 people into buses, on both the guides were not consistent.

[RetiredandTravel]

13 hours ago, ak1004 said:

I didn't sail on SS pre Covid so cannot compare.

 

But when comparing service on SS and O, I would say that general service on both was between very good and excellent, with some issues that I would consider relatively minor.

 

But the problem is that since SS is significantly more expensive, you would expect it to be much better. To me, I would say they were comparable.

 

Excursions were mixed bag on both. Both squeezed around 40 people into buses, on both the guides were not consistent.

 

I always compare a veranda on SS vs PH on Oceania and when I include a drink pakage , excursions etc I often find the price to be close to the same.  Full disclosure I've only compared a few cruises.  I'm actually looking at a South America cruise right now.

 

The main complaint I've read about Oceania is the food & service in the main dining room.  Comments?

 

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, RetiredandTravel said:

 

I always compare a veranda on SS vs PH on Oceania and when I include a drink pakage , excursions etc I often find the price to be close to the same.  Full disclosure I've only compared a few cruises.  I'm actually looking at a South America cruise right now.

 

The main complaint I've read about Oceania is the food & service in the main dining room.  Comments?

 

 

I agree that comparison really depends on the category you select. SS veranda is between O veranda and O PH in terms of size, so it's hard to do apples to apple comparison.

 

However, around 80% of the cabins on any ship are standard veranda cabins, so this is what most people book. For us even OV is fine, so we compare OV (or French veranda on Vista) with Vista on SS, and the difference is very significant, especially for 2025 sailings.

 

Also, O now includes drinks with meals and some excursion credit, and we prefer to book our own tours anyway.

 

Food in O MDR is excellent in my opinion. Service is usually between very good and excellent, with some occasional misses, but we found SS to be the same, so I would say comparable.

 

To me, the biggest advantage of SS is larger cabins, but it's much less significant for us. Most other areas they are comparable, so paying 50-60% more for SS just doesn't make sense to me, especially considering we don't drink. But this is very personal decision of course.

[RetiredOnVacation]

4 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

I agree that comparison really depends on the category you select. SS veranda is between O veranda and O PH in terms of size, so it's hard to do apples to apple comparison.

 

However, around 80% of the cabins on any ship are standard veranda cabins, so this is what most people book. For us even OV is fine, so we compare OV (or French veranda on Vista) with Vista on SS, and the difference is very significant, especially for 2025 sailings.

 

Also, O now includes drinks with meals and some excursion credit, and we prefer to book our own tours anyway.

 

Food in O MDR is excellent in my opinion. Service is usually between very good and excellent, with some occasional misses, but we found SS to be the same, so I would say comparable.

 

To me, the biggest advantage of SS is larger cabins, but it's much less significant for us. Most other areas they are comparable, so paying 50-60% more for SS just doesn't make sense to me, especially considering we don't drink. But this is very personal decision of course.

For us it's not just cabin size - though that is what you're spending a good deal of time in, so you'll want comparative cabin sizes; it's more the space ratio (defined very well on cruisemapper). Not been on O so can't comment on how it actually feels, but comparing a typically similar passenger capacity O ship to SS ship (ie. O Insignia/Nautica, with SS Dawn/Moon) cruisemapper has space ratio of 38 for O, versus 56 for SS. Far more space per person on SS and that's an important consideration for us worth paying for! 

[ak1004]

7 hours ago, RetiredOnVacation said:

For us it's not just cabin size - though that is what you're spending a good deal of time in, so you'll want comparative cabin sizes; it's more the space ratio (defined very well on cruisemapper). Not been on O so can't comment on how it actually feels, but comparing a typically similar passenger capacity O ship to SS ship (ie. O Insignia/Nautica, with SS Dawn/Moon) cruisemapper has space ratio of 38 for O, versus 56 for SS. Far more space per person on SS and that's an important consideration for us worth paying for! 

 

I agree that space ratio is a significant factor, but you are comparing older O ships. To me, they are less attractive (smaller cabins, tiny showers in standard cabins, so PH is almost a must, less dining options etc). We sail on the newer ships only (Riviera, Marina and Vista), and those ships have much better space ratio (closer to SS), good size cabins, more dining options etc. Riviera never felt more crowded than Spirit or Dawn - in fact, I would say that the buffet on SS felt a bit more crowded than on Riviera.

 

If you looked at the older O ships, I can completely understand why you looked at PH (and the pricing is really not competitive in my opinion), but on the newer ships standard balcony is 240 sqft, which is more than sufficient, and if it's enough for you, I believe it's a better value than SS.

[Silver Spectre]

The biggest issue on here, SS Shadow WC, is the major cut backs of premium brand liquor and beers. The cheese paring and penny pinching has gone way too far. Many WC’ers will not be returning to SS in its current form.

[vistaman]

On 4/27/2024 at 11:40 PM, ak1004 said:

 

Thank you for sharing.

 

If chasing down teaspoons was among the worst things from the 9 page letter, then I'm not really worried about Oceania future.

 

btw, on our 2 SS cruise we had to "chase down" Perrier, cappuccino and sometimes even plain water many times. Would never cross my mind to call it a bad cruise, but I guess it's matter of attitude. 

I went to buy Perrier and Italian sod🤪as ashore when I was on the Dawn 

[RetiredOnVacation]

13 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

I agree that space ratio is a significant factor, but you are comparing older O ships. To me, they are less attractive (smaller cabins, tiny showers in standard cabins, so PH is almost a must, less dining options etc). We sail on the newer ships only (Riviera, Marina and Vista), and those ships have much better space ratio (closer to SS), good size cabins, more dining options etc. Riviera never felt more crowded than Spirit or Dawn - in fact, I would say that the buffet on SS felt a bit more crowded than on Riviera.

 

That's interesting to know! However we also avoid 1000+ capacity ships - just don't like to be around so many people especially boarding/ports etc, and much prefer the 400-800 passenger class but with high space ratios.  So 1400 or so on the newer O ships explain the greater choice of venues, due the greater capacity, but wouldn't work for us, but thanks for your info! Guess you won't be seeing us on O! 

[ak1004]

4 hours ago, RetiredOnVacation said:

That's interesting to know! However we also avoid 1000+ capacity ships - just don't like to be around so many people especially boarding/ports etc, and much prefer the 400-800 passenger class but with high space ratios.  So 1400 or so on the newer O ships explain the greater choice of venues, due the greater capacity, but wouldn't work for us, but thanks for your info! Guess you won't be seeing us on O! 

 

Riviera and Marina are 1250 guests. Never felt more crowded than Spirit or Dawn, and it took around the same time to get on/off the ship. Honestly, if we didn't know the numbers, we probably couldn't tell the difference.

 

But that's fine, everyone has their preferences.

[PaulaJK]

16 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

The biggest issue on here, SS Shadow WC, is the major cut backs of premium brand liquor and beers. The cheese paring and penny pinching has gone way too far. Many WC’ers will not be returning to SS in its current form.

Have menu offerings and quality of cuisine continued to decline. We ‘shared’ the Feb 24 SSpirit cruise. I don’t recall liquor brand cutbacks…is that new? Is a anything  else new since Feb.?

[Silver Spectre]

10 hours ago, PaulaJK said:

Have menu offerings and quality of cuisine continued to decline. We ‘shared’ the Feb 24 SSpirit cruise. I don’t recall liquor brand cutbacks…is that new? Is an anything  else new since Feb.?

His is a big change instigated by RCI since we were on the Spirit in Feb.

[spinnaker2]

6 hours ago, Silver Spectre said:

His is a big change instigated by RCI since we were on the Spirit in Feb.

Mr Silver, I am following your posts. We noticed many changes onboard our last several cruises. So many that we cancelled a long cruise. We did also write to Silversea corporate but have heard nothing. Are you of the opinion that RCI will listen to the pax who have voiced their dismay over the changes? 

[UKCruiseJeff]

On 4/30/2024 at 2:04 PM, spinnaker2 said:

We noticed many changes onboard our last several cruises. So many that we cancelled a long cruise. We did also write to Silversea corporate but have heard nothing. Are you of the opinion that RCI will listen to the pax who have voiced their dismay over the changes? 

 

Hello Spins.

 

Your question isn't directed at me but I wanted to be helpful because I've been thinking about this topic for a while and simply wanted to help by suggesting some opinion that I haven't seen fleshed out and which you might wish to factor into your decision making.  You have an extremely tough decision and actually I don't believe anyone can provide you with the degree of reassurance you seek in order to rationally decide.

 

FWIW, I don't think this issue is about WHETHER RCI or any line are listening.  I think they certainly listen but at the moment they might not be responsive in the way you hope.  I think your question might not be IF they are listening but WHEN (if ever) they might respond and change in the way you need to be confident about future bookings. I think your question might better be "Will RCI upgrade my experience to my level of aspiration within the time-frame I need".  I can't answer that but offer a summary of my take on what is going on and the factors you need to resolve for yourself.

 

The Covid issue has provided two converging factors that to me seem to be pertinent. 

 

Firstly there is a compelling need for all lines to make up for lost ground.  This isn't a "nice to have"  but existential for all players to manage extraordinary debt as well as financing future plans.  This issue is enormous.  This means making as much money as they can to refill their heavily depleted coffers as quickly as possible.  Secondly, at the same time there has been a post-Covid surge in bookings from the pent-up demand from existing cruisers who have had a couple of years plus of no cruising opportunity and "cruise bereavement" plus the unprecedented extraordinary demand from first time cruisers who are entering the pool for the first time.  This is a (probably) unrepeatable opportunity for the industry.

 

These factors mean that the lines currently do not consider the need for nurturing loyalty from their base because they can both fill the ships at premium rates and reduce costs at the same time.  I don't think that from their point of view there is a downside to this approach for a while.  What "a while" means is unknown. What you need to calibrate is at what point in the future do you believe that the quality of the product will be brought into high focus because that initial avalanche of loyal and new customers post-covid is reducing and makes delighting earlier customers and new customers who might not even have experience the quality that you have -  important for their future business.  It's my sense that this is not imminent. In summary I don't think at the moment any line needs to look after long-term loyal customers. In fact it is more profitable to let them go for the time being.  They can ride the wave of the inexperienced and gullible for some time yet.  Your question is for how long and might I have better value if I go down market for a while,  If you get my drift.

 

I have no idea whether what I've said is helpful or intelligible or founded on sound thinking. I just felt your pain and hoped I might offer some considerations for you to discard. 

 

Bestest wishes and good luck with your thoughts.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 1 by UKCruiseJeff
shpelling

[spinnaker2]

21 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

Hello Spins.

 

Your question isn't directed at me but I wanted to be helpful because I've been thinking about this topic for a while and simply wanted to help by suggesting some opinion that I haven't seen fleshed out and which you might wish to factor into your decision making.  You have an extremely tough decision and actually I don't believe anyone can provide you with the degree of reassurance you seek in order to rationally decide.

 

FWIW, I don't think this issue is about WHETHER RCI or any line are listening.  I think they certainly listen but at the moment they might not be responsive in the way you hope.  I think your question might not be IF they are listening but WHEN (if ever) they might respond and change in the way you need to be confident about future bookings. I think your question might better be "Will RCI upgrade my experience to my level of aspiration within the time-frame I need".  I can't answer that but offer a summary of my take on what is going on and the factors you need to resolve for yourself.

 

The Covid issue has provided two converging factors that to me seem to be pertinent. 

 

Firstly there is a compelling need for all lines to make up for lost ground.  This isn't a "nice to have"  but existential for all players to manage extraordinary debt as well as financing future plans.  This issue is enormous.  This means making as much money as they can to refill their heavily depleted coffers as quickly as possible.  Secondly, at the same time there has been a post-Covid surge in bookings from the pent-up demand from existing cruisers who have had a couple of years plus of no cruising opportunity and "cruise bereavement" plus the unprecedented extraordinary demand from first time cruisers who are entering the pool for the first time.  This is a (probably) unrepeatable opportunity for the industry.

 

These factors mean that the lines currently do not consider the need for nurturing loyalty from their base because they can both fill the ships at premium rates and reduce costs at the same time.  I don't think that from their point of view there is a downside to this approach for a while.  What "a while" means is unknown. What you need to calibrate is at what point in the future do you believe that the quality of the product will be brought into high focus because that initial avalanche of loyal and new customers post-covid is reducing and makes delighting earlier customers and new customers who might not even have experience the quality that you have -  important for their future business.  It's my sense that this is not imminent. In summary I don't think at the moment any line needs to look after long-term loyal customers. In fact it is more profitable to let them go for the time being.  They can ride the wave of the inexperienced and gullible for some time yet.  Your question is for how long and might I have better value if I go down market for a while,  If you get my drift.

 

I have no idea whether what I've said is helpful or intelligible or founded on sound thinking. I just felt your pain and hoped I might offer some considerations for you to discard. 

 

Bestest wishes and good luck with your thoughts.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your good thoughts Jeff. We canceled our cruise before any further penalty. We will take some time out and reflect on the new approach/philosophy of Silversea. 

[UKCruiseJeff]

1 minute ago, spinnaker2 said:

Thanks for your good thoughts Jeff. We canceled our cruise before any further penalty. We will take some time out and reflect on the new approach/philosophy of Silversea. 

 

Thanks Spins,

 

FWIW, as a result of some lines too aggressively “making hay whilst the sun shines” I have no doubt at all that the extraordinary surge in cruisers converging with the overly compromised quality issues will inevitably open up in time an enormously attractive and highly profitable opportunity for a cruise-line to fill the vacuum with a top-notch product roughly where SS was when it started. There is an enormously lucrative market for the taking,  This is inevitable,  When is the question.

 

Good luck with your plans. 

 

Jeff

[spinnaker2]

59 minutes ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

Thanks Spins,

 

FWIW, as a result of some lines too aggressively “making hay whilst the sun shines” I have no doubt at all that the extraordinary surge in cruisers converging with the overly compromised quality issues will inevitably open up in time an enormously attractive and highly profitable opportunity for a cruise-line to fill the vacuum with a top-notch product roughly where SS was when it started. There is an enormously lucrative market for the taking,  This is inevitable,  When is the question.

 

Good luck with your plans. 

 

Jeff

I think that was the intent of Manfredi. But so far the hay hasn’t been spun into gold.

[highplanesdrifters]

22 hours ago, UKCruiseJeff said:

 

 

I have no idea whether what I've said is helpful or intelligible or founded on sound thinking

 

I think you hit the nail on the head and explained the current situation perfectly.  

 

Add in:

Along with new cruisers there are also the upgraders.  Will folks find the upgrade from Oceania, Viking, etc. worth it?

Lots of folks trying expedition, will all the new ships get supported?

Will the excessive marketing to a younger demographic work? Enough with all the influencers on board!

 

Although we currently have 4 expeditions booked I'm actively looking for alternatives.