Holland america vs Princess Cruise lines

[jeh10641]

3 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

 

 

1. I agree that a "4 or 5 star" hotel may not be "better" *for me* than some 3 stars. When it comes to hotels,  an elevator that works, AC that does the same, and a reasonably safe neighborhood are most important and non-negotiable for me (unfortunately this eliminates a lot of 3-star and even 4 and 5 star hotels in Europe).  None of these issues are a problem on a cruise ship (usually there is a pretty safe neighborhood on all ships :).

Then,  in order of priority, comes a a bath tub (all else equal, I'll pick a 3 star with a tub over a 5 star without one), an in-room coffeemaker, a mini-fridge or mini-bar, and an 'open' feeling in my room (e.g., instead of looking at a wall, I'd rather look out at a parking lot in a hotel).

If I'm driving, add easy parking to the list (not a problem on a cruise ship).

 

In America, I'm quite comfy in a Hampton or Hilton Garden Inn

Usually to get all my criteria (especially AC), this means at least a 4 star hotel in Europe.  

 

2. But mainstream cruise lines can still meet all of these if I get a higher level cabin, usually a balcony and above. 

And when it comes to cruising, the "lower" rated relatively large HAL and Princess lines on average offer more bath tub opportunities (per diem spent) than the more modern small luxury ships (apparently as much as I love bath tubs, most "luxury" cruisers prefer big showers, so new construction has gone that route).

 

Unfortunately I also hate standing in lines (I have trouble just standing a long time, even though I can walk a lot), and unfortunately when it comes to cruising, that is what can raise prices  for me.

 I have enjoyed so much of my HAL cruises (I thought the food was more reliable and definitely more diverse than on all but one luxury line).   But even in a HAL suite, I could not  avoid long tender return lines, and lines at the bars in peak times (which is when I'm interested). 

 

So I'd like to ask those who have sailed in suites on both HAL and Princess (I have friends doing Princess, but am just starting to explore booking it for myself), if you're in a balcony or above, and in particular if you were in a suite, *on a full ship*, on which cruise company, HAL or Princess, did you stand in line more, e.g., for tender returns, bar drinks, excursions, and other venues? Or were they pretty much the same, give or take?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

52 minutes ago, jeh10641 said:

That list says "mainstream" not "mass market".

 

Those terms are used interchangeably in the industry.

[stevenr597]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Another fluff piece and this time written by a part time blogger lol. 

 

And here's an equally credible source (aka, not necessarily credible but at least this source is someone working in the industry.)

 

Again, lumping HAL right into the pack of mainstream lines....

 

https://cruiseable.com/mainstream-cruise-ships

 

Still waiting.

Stand my by comments, but certainly would be interested in references to support your opinion.

In the meantime

https://www.fodors.com/cruises/cruise-lines-by-type

[BermudaBound2014]

54 minutes ago, CNSJ said:

The whole space ratio thing is bogus because it's based on volume to passengers.

 

The ship's "space ratio" (by definition) is the enclosed space (measured in ft3/cubic feet) per passenger. 

 

Deck space in square feet to passengers is what counts.  A grand six story atrium has six times the volume of a comparable space with one ten foot high interior.  The big new ship from RCI, X, and NCL have tons of dead air space.  Thats why some HAL ships appear to have lower space rations but seem less crowded.  

 

 

Actually, I believe the way to calculate space ration is gross tonnage (not enclosed space) divided by number of passengers. Space ratio isn't exact, but it's the best we have to give an idea of just how crowded a ship will 'feel' when sailing full. I've found it reasonably accurate.

 

Have you ever sailed on Oasis Class cruise ships? It has a better space ration than the K'dam and it shows. Oasis class (~240 gross tons and 6,000 passengers) never felt as crowded at the K'dam did because it handles crowds much better. In other words, while Oasis class had the most passengers of any ship I've sailed, it felt less crowded. 

 

NCL has a poor space ratio and I would agree that NCL felt more crowded than the K'dam. The much larger Carnival Celebration also felt less crowded than the K'dam. Alot of 'crowded' feeling on a ship is how passengers are dispersed. A ship with 2,500 passengers and only 3 venues open in the evening that's going to feel much more crowded than a ship with 6,000 passengers but 10 different venues.

 

 

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

1 minute ago, stevenr597 said:

Stand my by comments, but certainly would be interested in references to support your opinion.

In the meantime

https://www.fodors.com/cruises/cruise-lines-by-type

 

 Concrete examples based on personal experience are not opinions.

 

Still waiting.......

 

[SeaMatesNYC]

On 6/29/2024 at 10:38 PM, jeh10641 said:

We are ex-New Yorkers and were very disappointed in what was served there.

Ditto and agree!  The pizzas they serve would make most New Yorkers cringe. I’m now a Southern Californian so now I eat avocado and bean sprouts on my pizza. But tell me New York pizza and youze bettah be bringin’ da goods!?

[canadarocks]

I can only speak for myself and my DH. We are 65 & 80 and just got to 4* status a year ago on HAL. Staunch supporters of HAL since 2009. I doubt we will return. The last 3 years we have alternated between Princess & HAL, doing subsequent cruises to avoid our Canadian winters. In 2023 we spent 30 days on the Emerald Princess followed by 20 days on the Eurodam. That was literally the “camel straw” for us.

 

We are traditional diners, had the best of all of our many cruises with Jefferson as our server on the Emerald. Food far superior on Princess. Balcony cabins on both ships, cabin steward far superior on Princess. And by far the most important factor for us, entertainment.

 

Simon, on the Eurodam was perhaps the best entertainment director we have ever had. Valerie was technically the entertainment director, but trust me Simon did EVERYTHING! 
 

As good as Simon was (and trust me he was brilliant), he was doing the exact same job as 7 people were doing on the Emerald Princess! It was laughable the difference between the calibre of games etc. between the two ships. 
 

Yes, for sure YMMV. We met a woman on the Eurodam who loves dancing. She spent every night at the Rolling Stone Rock Room, and wouldn’t consider Princess ever because they don’t have a dedicated dance venue. And for her HAL was the perfect choice.

 

We love trivia, games, comedians etc. Princess has always been better at that. To our surprise in the last few years, we also found that they are now better at everything else when compared to HAL. 

[Roz]

2 hours ago, SeaMatesNYC said:

I’m now a Southern Californian so now I eat avocado and bean sprouts on my pizza. 

You are officially excommunicated. 

[Hogladyrider]

21 hours ago, Destiny0315 said:

Well the OP hasn't been involved in this thread since he first started it on June 20 and ironically announced in a new thread on Sunday that he had just booked a HAL Zaandam cruise that's sailing in April of '26!!

I noticed that as well, he was "done with HAL moving to Princess"....shall we say consider the source!

[Kay S]

1 hour ago, Hogladyrider said:

I noticed that as well, he was "done with HAL moving to Princess"....shall we say consider the source!

He did come back briefly a day or so ago.

[Woofbite]

I'm amazed at the analysis of all this. 

I just look for an interesting itinerary, check if rates are within reason and book it.  If the cruise line is good I seek them for another trip.  If not or the value wasn't there, I look somewhere else next time.  Couldn't care less what category "experts" say it fits, (depends on ship size and age seems to me more than brand), or whether balcony has two feet more or less square footage or the menus may are slightly different than some other line, but that is just me.

 

 

[SeaMatesNYC]

2 hours ago, Woofbite said:

I'm amazed at the analysis of all this. 

I just look for an interesting itinerary, check if rates are within reason and book it.  If the cruise line is good I seek them for another trip.  If not or the value wasn't there, I look somewhere else next time.  Couldn't care less what category "experts" say it fits, (depends on ship size and age seems to me more than brand), or whether balcony has two feet more or less square footage or the menus may are slightly different than some other line, but that is just me.

 

 

Non-scientific statement, of course, but over 90% of passengers probably fit your model. We here on CC tend to be “abnormal” in many more ways than one, myself included. 

[jeh10641]

22 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

 

 

1. I agree that a "4 or 5 star" hotel may not be "better" *for me* than some 3 stars. When it comes to hotels,  an elevator that works, AC that does the same, and a reasonably safe neighborhood are most important and non-negotiable for me (unfortunately this eliminates a lot of 3-star and even 4 and 5 star hotels in Europe).  None of these issues are a problem on a cruise ship (usually there is a pretty safe neighborhood on all ships :).

Then,  in order of priority, comes a a bath tub (all else equal, I'll pick a 3 star with a tub over a 5 star without one), an in-room coffeemaker, a mini-fridge or mini-bar, and an 'open' feeling in my room (e.g., instead of looking at a wall, I'd rather look out at a parking lot in a hotel).

If I'm driving, add easy parking to the list (not a problem on a cruise ship).

 

In America, I'm quite comfy in a Hampton or Hilton Garden Inn

Usually to get all my criteria (especially AC), this means at least a 4 star hotel in Europe.  

 

2. But mainstream cruise lines can still meet all of these if I get a higher level cabin, usually a balcony and above. 

And when it comes to cruising, the "lower" rated relatively large HAL and Princess lines on average offer more bath tub opportunities (per diem spent) than the more modern small luxury ships (apparently as much as I love bath tubs, most "luxury" cruisers prefer big showers, so new construction has gone that route).

 

Unfortunately I also hate standing in lines (I have trouble just standing a long time, even though I can walk a lot), and unfortunately when it comes to cruising, that is what can raise prices  for me.

 I have enjoyed so much of my HAL cruises (I thought the food was more reliable and definitely more diverse than on all but one luxury line).   But even in a HAL suite, I could not  avoid long tender return lines, and lines at the bars in peak times (which is when I'm interested). 

 

So I'd like to ask those who have sailed in suites on both HAL and Princess (I have friends doing Princess, but am just starting to explore booking it for myself), if you're in a balcony or above, and in particular if you were in a suite, *on a full ship*, on which cruise company, HAL or Princess, did you stand in line more, e.g., for tender returns, bar drinks, excursions, and other venues? Or were they pretty much the same, give or take?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi, "Catlover54",

I tried unsuccessfully to answer this on my phone. I am now back on my desktop. When I travel in the U.S., Hampton Inns, Best Westerns, Holiday Inns, et al are just fine for my needs. When I travel in Europe, I look for hotels that have a little history (NO COOKIE CUTTERS!).

 

For instance, in Florence I booked a hotel built by a Russian Prince as a palace 400 years ago, in Vienna, a hotel that has been owned by the same family for over 200 years and in London, a hotel owned by the Duke of Bedford since it was built in the 1780s. We do not travel to Europe in the summer, so A/C is not a problem. A lift/elevator is a plus but not a gamebreaker.

Jim

[jeh10641]

19 hours ago, CNSJ said:

The whole space ratio thing is bogus because it's based on volume to passengers.

 

The ship's "space ratio" (by definition) is the enclosed space (measured in ft3/cubic feet) per passenger. 

 

Deck space in square feet to passengers is what counts.  A grand six story atrium has six times the volume of a comparable space with one ten foot high interior.  The big new ship from RCI, X, and NCL have tons of dead air space.  Thats why some HAL ships appear to have lower space rations but seem less crowded.  

 

Thanks for your service.

Jim

[d9704011]

So, HAL recently posted a number of itineraries for 2026 and I thought I'd look into a 14 day cruise leaving UK or Netherlands for Norway and and a summer solstice crossing of the Arctic Circle.

 

A couple of months ago I booked a Sky Pricess cruise with verandah and Princess Plus package for a grand total of just over 8,000 CAD (currently running at 8,800 CAD).  A comparable HAL cruise and cabin and HIA package comes in at 12,400 CAD.

 

Any comments and/or suggestions why the rather substantial difference?  Certainly, the HIA provides some excursion and dining credits but not all that much.

Edited July 31 by d9704011

[TRLD]

On 7/9/2024 at 2:07 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Actually, I believe the way to calculate space ration is gross tonnage (not enclosed space) divided by number of passengers. Space ratio isn't exact, but it's the best we have to give an idea of just how crowded a ship will 'feel' when sailing full. I've found it reasonably accurate.

 

Have you ever sailed on Oasis Class cruise ships? It has a better space ration than the K'dam and it shows. Oasis class (~240 gross tons and 6,000 passengers) never felt as crowded at the K'dam did because it handles crowds much better. In other words, while Oasis class had the most passengers of any ship I've sailed, it felt less crowded. 

 

NCL has a poor space ratio and I would agree that NCL felt more crowded than the K'dam. The much larger Carnival Celebration also felt less crowded than the K'dam. Alot of 'crowded' feeling on a ship is how passengers are dispersed. A ship with 2,500 passengers and only 3 venues open in the evening that's going to feel much more crowded than a ship with 6,000 passengers but 10 different venues.

 

 

 

 

gross tonnage is a measure of ship size, and while it might be a relative indicator of the amount of space in a ship. You can have 2 ships with the same gross tonnage and have quite a difference is space available to passengers, and especially common public space (both inside and out).

 

Lots of design decisions impact the end result.

[BermudaBound2014]

6 hours ago, TRLD said:

gross tonnage is a measure of ship size, and while it might be a relative indicator of the amount of space in a ship. You can have 2 ships with the same gross tonnage and have quite a difference is space available to passengers, and especially common public space (both inside and out).

 

Lots of design decisions impact the end result.

 

Gross Tonnage divided by passenger capacity is the standard formula for calculating space ratio across the cruise industry. It may not be perfect, but it's the best we've got. Unless, of course, you have invented a better methodology? 

 

 

 

https://cruisefever.net/most-crowded-cruise-ships-by-passenger-space-ratio/

 

 

https://www2.cruisewatch.com/top-10/ships-space-ratio/

 

 

https://www.cruzely.com/list-every-cruise-ship-ranked-by-space-per-passenger-find-your-ship/

 

 

 

 

Again, if you have a more accurate formula for reporting space ratio please share.

Edited August 1 by BermudaBound2014

[d9704011]

41 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Gross Tonnage divided by passenger capacity is the standard formula for calculating space ratio across the cruise industry. It may not be perfect, but it's the best we've got. Unless, of course, you have invented a better methodology? 

 

 

 

https://cruisefever.net/most-crowded-cruise-ships-by-passenger-space-ratio/

 

 

https://www2.cruisewatch.com/top-10/ships-space-ratio/

 

 

https://www.cruzely.com/list-every-cruise-ship-ranked-by-space-per-passenger-find-your-ship/

 

 

 

 

Again, if you have a more accurate formula for reporting space ratio please share.

A major problem with the cruisefever.net description of how tonnage is measured (amount of water displaced by ship) is that this provides for the displacement tonnage of the ship.... what the ship weighs.  Gross tonnage is a measure of internal volume of the ship and is measured according to agreed standards...it has absolutely nothing to do with the displacement.

 

For example, we could make a simple 'ship shape' out of waxed paper and float it in a tub of water; it may displace a few grams of water.  Make the same shape out of thin steel and float it.... the amount of water displaced will be significantly more but the actual internal volume of each 'ship' is the same.

 

I do agree that gross tonnage/number of passengers is about the best measure available for representing 'roominess'.

Edited August 1 by d9704011

[BermudaBound2014]

2 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I do agree that gross tonnage/number of passengers is about the best measure available for representing 'roominess'.

 

Thanks. That's exactly what I was getting at :). We just don't have a better way to calculate.

 

With that, I have sailed on numerous mega ships and believe it's a fallacy to suggest that just because a ship holds 6,000 passengers it will feel more crowded than the Pinnacle class on HAL. It doesn't.  Certainly some megas do, but those are the ones with poorer space ratio so you know that going in.

 

While this method for calculating space ratio has flaws (which are obvious to most); in my experience it's been pretty darn accurate when it all shakes out. Accurate enough that it's the method I use when comparing ship choices. 

 

 

[d9704011]

7 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

With that, I have sailed on numerous mega ships and believe it's a fallacy to suggest that just because a ship holds 6,000 passengers it will feel more crowded than the Pinnacle class on HAL.

I've never cruised on a mega-ship so don't have first-hand experience/knowledge.  I'd suggest that some cruisers have the sense that some of those very large ships don't provide all that much room is because they've experienced waits and crowding at some locations and choke points and interpreted these as lack of space when it's more a matter of relatively short time crowd flow.

Edited August 1 by d9704011

[BermudaBound2014]

7 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I've never cruised on a mega-ship so don't have first-hand experience/knowledge.  I'd suggest that some cruisers have the sense that some of those very large ships don't provide all that much room is because they've experienced waits and crowding at some locations and choke points and interpreted these as lack of space when it's more a matter of relatively short time crowd flow.

 

I would agree except believe it's worth noting that some of the mega ships have totally remedied many choke points (not all). The smoothest embarkation and debarkation I have ever had have all been on Oasis class (6,000K passengers). They build terminals specially designed to manage those crowds and also staff them. You enter/exit the ship based on cabin location. The mega ships tend to be more organized because they have to be. I can't even imagine the chaos that would have erupted on a 5K passenger ship with all the embarkation mis-communication that HAL sent out last year. One email contradicted itself 3 times. The big ships can't afford to make those type of mistakes for fear of a real mutiny lol. 

 

Where I have noticed lines is at 1 a.m. when the only place for food is Sorrento's (open 24 hours) because people stay up much later and want chow. Also, the lido can be yucky at prime times (unless the mega ship has that new food truck design which is genius). There will typically be 4-5 'MDR's" so it's not one massive loud restaurant. 

 

But there are drawbacks for sure and I do understand why so many like old fashioned cruising. I do too, I just find HAL is a bit too sedate for my sweet spot.  If they could find a middle ground between sleeping and water slides it would be perfect for me 🙂 . You do have to make reservations for all the shows on megas (but there are several venues like a main stage, ice rink, aqua theatre, comedy club so people are spread out and the shows themselves are no more crowded.). No tendering of course so that totally limits where ships can go. 

 

Mega ships aren't for everyone, but they don't necessarily 'feel' more crowded and that was my point. Maybe try one one day. You might be surprised at how nice they really can be. 

[TRLD]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Gross Tonnage divided by passenger capacity is the standard formula for calculating space ratio across the cruise industry. It may not be perfect, but it's the best we've got. Unless, of course, you have invented a better methodology? 

 

 

 

https://cruisefever.net/most-crowded-cruise-ships-by-passenger-space-ratio/

 

 

https://www2.cruisewatch.com/top-10/ships-space-ratio/

 

 

https://www.cruzely.com/list-every-cruise-ship-ranked-by-space-per-passenger-find-your-ship/

 

 

 

 

Again, if you have a more accurate formula for reporting space ratio please share.

Not yet, but working on a approach that takes into account a number of design parameters, including space allocated to cabins, max capacity as well as lower berth capacity and a couple of other element of publicly available information.

[BermudaBound2014]

4 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Not yet, but working on a approach that takes into account a number of design parameters, including space allocated to cabins, max capacity as well as lower berth capacity and a couple of other element of publicly available information.

 

I knew we could count on you 😄 

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

Not yet, but working on a approach that takes into account a number of design parameters, including space allocated to cabins, max capacity as well as lower berth capacity and a couple of other element of publicly available information.

Good luck!!

[Hobby3333]

Just got off Sun Princess two weeks ago.   It was my first Princess cruise and I have only been on three HAL cruises.   Just booked the Rotterdam for next summer.  For me, Holland will be my preferred line.