Why is .......- a logical alarm signal?

Google isn't helping. I found a couple of signals here, like "Turning to port = Two short blasts" but why 7 ("or more") short blasts and a long one? It's not even a letter in Morse code.

Waking up after the first horn blast I don't think I would be like "that were at most 5 short ones before the long one. Probably just signalling we're turning left or something. Let's try to get some more sleep". If anything, I'd expect repeated short (or long) blasts (... ... ... ...) just going on until everyone was at their station wearing life jackets, including those with a premium beverage package.

So what's the story behind 7 short-1 long?

Throughout history keeping time on a ship was fundamental to being able to navigate and manage the crew on the ship. For this purpose, originally, it was bells that were installed. These bells were used to sound the General Alarm - 8 Bells was the original General Alarm. Horns are a much later invention:

http://www.boatus.com/eightbells/history.asp

Throughout history keeping time on a ship was fundamental to being able to navigate and manage the crew on the ship. For this purpose, originally, it was bells that were installed. These bells were used to sound the General Alarm - 8 Bells was the original General Alarm. Horns are a much later invention:

 

http://www.boatus.com/eightbells/history.asp

While that is an interesting link, and a few Dutch proverbs suddenly make a lot more sense to me (thanks :)), the same site says 8 bells just meant the end of the last shift. The site attaches some more sentimental meaning to it, but I don't see a mention of 8 bells meaning a General Alarm.

let me ask my husband the Sailor( currently deployed) I am sure he knows all the trivia.

I am smiling at the thread. As to bells, any Navy man or one who has been around the Maritime world understands the "code." Traditionally sailors worked a 4 hour shift (usually 4 on and 8 off). Assuming a shift starts at midnight, 12:30 would be 1 bell, 1:00 2 bells, etc. So at 4am (end of the shift) you would hear 8 bells. And then it starts all over again.

As to the various whistle/horn signals they are based on a long tradition and are truly an international signal understood by sailors everywhere, regardless of what languages they might speak. So 3 short blasts means "I am backing up." This would be understood in New York Harbor, Hong Kong Harbor, or anywhere else. The various whistle/horn signals work in the dark of the night, in fog, etc. 7 shorts plus a long is simply a "General Alarm" and universally used at sea. Where that comes from is anyone's guess although I am sure you can find various theories. There is a lot of tradition at sea that sometimes defies logic. Even in this modern age, young professional sailors, training to be officers, still learn how to use a sextant. Kind of strange in a world where you can carry a portable GPS unit in your pocket. But it is tradition!

Hank

I am smiling at the thread. As to bells, any Navy man or one who has been around the Maritime world understands the "code." Traditionally sailors worked a 4 hour shift (usually 4 on and 8 off). Assuming a shift starts at midnight, 12:30 would be 1 bell, 1:00 2 bells, etc. So at 4am (end of the shift) you would hear 8 bells. And then it starts all over again.

 

As to the various whistle/horn signals they are based on a long tradition and are truly an international signal understood by sailors everywhere, regardless of what languages they might speak. So 3 short blasts means "I am backing up." This would be understood in New York Harbor, Hong Kong Harbor, or anywhere else. The various whistle/horn signals work in the dark of the night, in fog, etc. 7 shorts plus a long is simply a "General Alarm" and universally used at sea. Where that comes from is anyone's guess although I am sure you can find various theories. There is a lot of tradition at sea that sometimes defies logic. Even in this modern age, young professional sailors, training to be officers, still learn how to use a sextant. Kind of strange in a world where you can carry a portable GPS unit in your pocket. But it is tradition!

 

Hank

About the sextant----

Have to know the old school to appreciate the new and, in case something goes wrong.

Been there, done that. At least it was only stats and not navigation. FWIW still don't trust TI calculators.

About the sextant----

Have to know the old school to appreciate the new and, in case something goes wrong.

 

Been there, done that. At least it was only stats and not navigation. FWIW still don't trust TI calculators.

A friend of mine flies jumbos for a living; he still carries an aviation slide rule in his bag and uses it occasionally, stuff happens he says.

Even in this modern age, young professional sailors, training to be officers, still learn how to use a sextant. Kind of strange in a world where you can carry a portable GPS unit in your pocket. But it is tradition!

It may be tradition but - a friend of ours (Annapolis grad) wasn't happy last summer when he told us that using a sextant was no longer being taught at the Academy.

Good grief! Our local Power Squadron in West Michigan tried to teach me that skill many years ago. I got to the point where I could get a fix within 500 miles of my position. :rolleyes:

When confirming the way two ships are going to pass, even if it is being done via radio the officers will tell each other they are passing two whistles or one whistle. Three whistles is going astern. If after exchanging passing signals, one hears one of the ships blow three whistles, one can almost expect to hear five blasts from one or both of the ships which means DANGER. Seven short blasts followed by a continuous long blast is abandon ship.

I learned all this stuff before when I was a kid, but I had the advantage of having my father's Naval Academy "Reef Points" and attending Coast Guard Auxiliary classes while I was still in elementary school.

Railroads still use whistle signals to communicate from the engine to the crew or others on the ground. They also still use hand signals even though everyone carries radios. I can tell what railroad a guy did his student trips on by his hand signals.

Doc

We used bo'sun pipes in the Navy over the loud speaker and the whistle for "all hands attention" that preceeded a general alarm was the longest. One thing that happened after awhile was one tuned out the announcements being made over the loudspeaker unless it pertained to you (a skill that I have a hard time explaining), but try as you might you couldn't tune out that long whistle, it was just too long and too annoying.

My guess is that the ship's whistle for "general alarm" is the longest series of whistles in the book and you know when you hear the whistle blown that many times it was time to pay attention.

It may be tradition but - a friend of ours (Annapolis grad) wasn't happy last summer when he told us that using a sextant was no longer being taught at the Academy.

The USCG academy still teaches it. They get first hand training on sextants during their summer cruises on USCGC EAGLE.

Waking up after the first horn blast I don't think I would be like "that were at most 5 short ones before the long one. Probably just signalling we're turning left or something. Let's try to get some more sleep". If anything, I'd expect repeated short (or long) blasts (... ... ... ...) just going on until everyone was at their station wearing life jackets, including those with a premium beverage package.

I don't know the story behind 7 short and one long but what I can say is you will not be confused by what sound signal is being sounded. General sound signals for navigation are not piped over the ships PA system.

It may be tradition but - a friend of ours (Annapolis grad) wasn't happy last summer when he told us that using a sextant was no longer being taught at the Academy.

Hubby learned from a crusty old QMC on his first ship. he was the first JO in some time to get close enough to be on the same map supposedly.

While that is an interesting link, and a few Dutch proverbs suddenly make a lot more sense to me (thanks :)), the same site says 8 bells just meant the end of the last shift. The site attaches some more sentimental meaning to it, but I don't see a mention of 8 bells meaning a General Alarm.

I think you missed this comment in the article:

"Bells ringing for a longer period signals a general ship alarm."

"1) General Alarm: The general alarm on the ship is recognized by 7 short ringing of bell followed by a long ring or 7 short blasts on the ship’s horn followed by one long blast. The general alarm is sounded to make aware the crew on board that an emergency has occurred. "

http://www.marineinsight.com/misc/marine-safety/different-types-of-alarms-on-ship/

I can ask my dad for more details. He's a retired Navy Captain.

The seven short are enough to get your attention - you may not be paying enough attention to figure whether it was one, two or three --- but seven will register as a "whole lot" - then followed by the long blast - an unmistakeable pattern, even without counting.

A friend of mine flies jumbos for a living; he still carries an aviation slide rule in his bag and uses it occasionally, stuff happens he says.

I am a luddite. I do not believe that people should be allowed to use a calculator unless they know how to use log table and a slide rule. Maybe even an abacus and Napier's bones (look that one up).

DON

The seven short are enough to get your attention - you may not be paying enough attention to figure whether it was one, two or three --- but seven will register as a "whole lot" - then followed by the long blast - an unmistakeable pattern, even without counting.

Very much the same as the five shorts saying "I'm going to run into you if you don't get out of the way" - heard way too often during regattas on SF Bay.