"What if" Questions about Missing Ship & Insurance

I know this has probably been answered before, and I also think I pretty much know the answer. However, someone has asked me for advice, and I'm not sure I know the correct answer.

They're U.S. citizens, and want to take a roundtrip cruise to/from Miami. First stop is Key West. When you take O's included air, the flight does not arrive on time to get you to the ship in time to board and you miss it, what happens? Next port is Key West, but I don't know if the U.S. allows you to board any place but where you end up (Miami).

What's likely to happen at that point? Does Oceania have any responsibility in the matter? I know almost all cruise fares on O include air, but if for some reason, you book very late and use Oceania-purchased air (if available), does anything change?

If you have trip interruption insurance, does this (usually) cover whatever you need to do?

If you don't, what can you do to avoid "what if" situations? I know asking for a deviation and going to Miami is one option, as is asking for a air credit and arranging your own flights, and buying insurance. Anything else?

What about your choices once you get your airline arrangements from Oceania? If they're really miserable, and you fear not boarding on time, what can you do, if anything?

Has anyone not made the ship due to "close calls" with their air arrangements, especially when flying to a U.S. destination? Has anybody, like us, never had a problem?

my advice would be fly in the day before even if they have to arrive late at night

It gives some wiggle room should there be any delays with the flights, connections etc.

Take the air credit book your own or pay the deviation fee & arrive the day before

I do not like to start or end my vacation under stress

YMMV

my advice would be fly in the day before even if they have to arrive late at night

 

It gives some wiggle room should there be any delays with the flights, connections etc.

Take the air credit book your own or pay the deviation fee & arrive the day before

 

I do not like to start or end my vacation under stress

YMMV

Plus 1.

NEVER EVER fly in day of departure - even if it means spending a night in Swamplandia.

 

Plus 1.

NEVER EVER fly in day of departure - even if it means spending a night in Swamplandia.

Plus 2

It's not a question of IF you will ever run into a "situation", it's a matter of when you will.

If "it" hasn't happened yet, then you know that you are playing on borrowed time.

+3 never ever fly in the same day. We can even take Miami, which we don't love, for 1 night.

While I'm not crazy about Miami, I have no problem flying in a day early and photographing birds and alligators in the Everglades. However, our friends may not want or be able to do that.

Anyone out there who can venture a guess as to what might happen to the poor soul who doesn't make it to the ship on time?

While I'm not crazy about Miami, I have no problem flying in a day early and photographing birds and alligators in the Everglades. However, our friends may not want or be able to do that.

 

Anyone out there who can venture a guess as to what might happen to the poor soul who doesn't make it to the ship on time?

In almost all cases, the passenger must be prepared to pay for their Air transport to the ship to finish out the cruise.

Insurance and/or the Cruise Line may reimburse, dependent on specific circumstances, but in the heat of the moment it is usually necessary to get the ticket purchased first and discuss money afterwards.

Ancillary expenses are handled in the same manner.

Perhaps you were thinking of this post when you asked this question?

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2333769&highlight=key+west+pvsa

In addition to the PVSA (and he would not be allowed to board in Key West because of the PVSA)(and you're not allowed to "just pay the fine"), there are other issues.

CBP uses the passenger manifest provided at embarkation to screen passengers throughout the closed loop cruise. This allows the disembarkation "interview" with CBP to be simply a "compare the face on the ID to the face in front of me, and check off the name on the cleared manifest, thanks folks you're on your way".

When the cruise line allows "downstream" boarding (someone joining the cruise at other than the port of origin), or "upstream" disembarkation (someone leaving the ship prior to the original disembarkation port, regardless of whether the port is US or foreign, a new passenger manifest must be submitted (at additional cost to the line, both for preparing it and for submittal), and CBP now treats the cruise as if it originated in a foreign port, because that's where the manifest started from. This now requires CBP to screen passengers in less time (maybe only a day for a medical disembarkation the day before return to port of origin), and also triggers an interview process as if the cruise was a transatlantic or other cruise starting in a foreign port. You are still allowed to travel on the WHTI approved DL/BC form of ID, but the disembark interview can get a lot more involved as they check everyone's ID into the CBP computer system. This causes delays with disembarkation and unhappy passengers.

For this reason, over the last couple of years, most lines are not allowing downstream boarding or upstream disembarking unless there are a significant number of guests delayed for weather, or of course for a medical disembark. I.E., no voluntary downstream boarding.

Plus 4...even driving to a port, we always stay over the night before as anything can happen! But especially when flying...and with connecting flights: just as bad as you missing the ship is to have your luggage not arrive with you in time to sail!!!

When you take O's included air, the flight does not arrive on time to get you to the ship in time to board and you miss it, what happens?

I'd like to see this part answered. If you purchase or use cruise line included air and do not make your sailing time, what happens and who is responsible for what? How does the answer vary based upon port of departure and itinerary?

Our Story:

Sailing Vancouver to Tokyo. First day out is sea day (inside passage) second day Ketchikan, next several days Alaskan ports then Petropavlovsk, and then Japan. Had same day flight to Vancouver:rolleyes:, plane broke:mad: and we missed sailing. Airline flew us to Ketchikan where a day later we boarded and completed our cruise. Missed sail away and sea day. We neither asked nor received anything from cruise line; airline paid for the extra flights and meals. We paid for one night in Ketchikan hotel. I considered it a win win :D(we'd sailed inside passage before).

Greg

I'd like to see this part answered. If you purchase or use cruise line included air and do not make your sailing time, what happens and who is responsible for what? How does the answer vary based upon port of departure and itinerary?

Liability wise, it all depends on why you miss your sailing time. In your case, it appears that the Airline had an equipment problem, which will always be chalked up to the customer being "in the right".

Bad Weather is seen as an act of "you know who" and is therefore the passengers problem, as is ANY type of passenger tardiness.

We have been involved in six or seven "disputed situations" such as you describe, and in each of them acceptance of any type of settlement universally required that one relinquishes rights to pursue further action from any other source.

Don't look for duplication of liability.

I'd like to see this part answered. If you purchase or use cruise line included air and do not make your sailing time, what happens and who is responsible for what? How does the answer vary based upon port of departure and itinerary?

Believe the simple answer is that you, the passenger are ultimately responsible to get yourself to the ship or to the next available port for boarding. Most, if not all cruise lines who provided included or extra cost air have that clearly stated in their Terms and Conditions.

That said, there are circumstances as you described where the airline takes responsibility and pays for part of or all of your extra costs and cruise lines have at times stepped up and taken care of the changes and extra costs however, ultimately, the cruise line has no responsibility based on the terms and conditions.

This lack of responsibility by the cruise line is unfortunately misunderstood by many passengers.

I would never fly in on the day that I must be somewhere. No for a cruise, or for a special event.

And I don't think I have ever just taken the air arrangements from O. It doesn't make sense to me to fly in on the day the ship departs. Too much can go wrong. And weather can be an issue if you travel in the winter from Toronto. So we always do an air deviation or take the money and arrange our own flights.

It annoys me a bit that O doesn't offer a day early flight as part of their regular arrangements since I know they do have to deal with some who are delayed.

BTW, when I was working, I did have sufficient vacation days and now retired, so time isn't an issue for me. I know it is for some people.

In spite of all the comments above there are thousands that fly in on the day of the cruise with no issues. Having said that I always do my best to go in a day early, unless there are extenuating circumstances.

Odds are everything will be fine, but there's always an exception, and I've experienced it, more than once, but not on a cruise, and thankfully on the way home.

Believe the simple answer is that you, the passenger are ultimately responsible to get yourself to the ship or to the next available port for boarding. Most, if not all cruise lines who provided included or extra cost air have that clearly stated in their Terms and Conditions.

 

That said, there are circumstances as you described where the airline takes responsibility and pays for part of or all of your extra costs and cruise lines have at times stepped up and taken care of the changes and extra costs however, ultimately, the cruise line has no responsibility based on the terms and conditions.

 

This lack of responsibility by the cruise line is unfortunately misunderstood by many passengers.

I meant our story to be only antidotal. Flying the day of the sailing was our choice (there were 3 later flights we could have taken and why that didn't work is a really long story); so, missing the ship was ENTIRELY our responsibility. I was , frankly, tickled that the airline ate the extra cost (about $600pp) to fly us to Ketchikan. Actually, spending an extra day and night in Ketchikan was a pretty neat experience (we got to hike Deer Mountain:D).

I appreciate the pointing out that even if one takes the cruise line's air arrangements, you are still responsible for getting to the ship on time. I also agree with a later poster who was annoyed that O (and probably other lines) don't offer a "day earlier" flight without an air deviation charge.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification.

Greg

There was a time, a few years ago, when O included a 1 day before flight and hotel in the cruise fare. Their hotels were 5 star and many passengers declined this option and made their own arrangements with a less expensive hotel.

Well, I've taken the cruise line air the same day of embarkation at least 5 or 6 times now and never had a problem. However, all but a couple flights have been for cruises starting in Europe, where the flight is usually overnight, giving you a good while to get to the ship. Also, in most parts of Europe, a train can often get you to the next port without too much trouble, expense or hassle. The U.S. is actually a little scarier, especially if there's water involved, or the next port is a U.S. city.

Travel insurance isn't much of a help either, at least with the couple policies I checked. As explained to me by the insurance store rep, when you're flying to the embarkation city, the plane must be delayed for at least 3 hours before you can claim anything. This might help in the case of a huge weather or mechanical problem, but probably not if the cruise line books you on a flight with little time to spare - or something similar. Also, by then, of course, you've missed part of your cruise - not what I'd like to do.

I know a lot of people expect miracles from the cruise line, and some even expect miracles from insurance companies, and get very upset when something is not provided or not covered. That's why I'm trying to learn more and more about the "what if's" of flying the same day, using cruise air, and buying a travel insurance policy for my next cruise.

sitraveler, I notice there are still a couple hotels included in cruise fare prices. I was drooling over a 2018 Cambodia/Vietnam cruise, and I believe there was a short hotel stay included at the beginning.

I believe Viking Oceans allows you to pay a deviation fee to go out a day early to the embarkation port. However, for the few cruises that include air in the cruise price, I don't believe they give a credit if you want to decline the air and make your own arrangements. Everyone's different, I guess.

Thanks for the PVSA information.

Hey roo,

>When you take O's included air, the flight does not arrive on time to get you to the ship in time to board and you miss it,...

Has anyone asked O why they are offering included air that misses the ship?

Ira

Hey roo,

 

>When you take O's included air, the flight does not arrive on time to get you to the ship in time to board and you miss it,...

 

Has anyone asked O why they are offering included air that misses the ship?

 

Ira

They haven't offered it yet, but I was asked "what happens?" if something goes wrong, so I'm playing a "what if" game. In reality, I'm guessing Oceania will get us on a morning flight and that it will arrive in plenty of time to get out of the airport and take a cab to the port.

I'd like to see this part answered. If you purchase or use cruise line included air and do not make your sailing time, what happens and who is responsible for what? How does the answer vary based upon port of departure and itinerary?

 

Our Story:

 

Sailing Vancouver to Tokyo. First day out is sea day (inside passage) second day Ketchikan, next several days Alaskan ports then Petropavlovsk, and then Japan. Had same day flight to Vancouver:rolleyes:, plane broke:mad: and we missed sailing. Airline flew us to Ketchikan where a day later we boarded and completed our cruise. Missed sail away and sea day. We neither asked nor received anything from cruise line; airline paid for the extra flights and meals. We paid for one night in Ketchikan hotel. I considered it a win win :D(we'd sailed inside passage before).

 

Greg

Your situation is somewhat different in that it wouldn't involve having a non-USA-flagged cruise line transport a passenger between two different USA ports, which would violate the PVSA.

(Here, "between" means embarking and disembarking, not getting off for tours/excursions, etc.)

So that issue didn't arise.

The OP was asking about a Miami-Miami cruise.

About 15 years ago, I was on a flight arranged as part of the cruise (the first/only time I ever did that, thus far), and the flight was cancelled. I missed the departure in Miami.

It was a closed loop cruise, Miami to Miami.

The cruiseline and the airline somehow managed to get me on a midnight flight to Key West.

(I arrived in the wee hours, and was up early to greet the ship, and get settled in.)

Apparently the PVSA wasn't that big of an issue back then...?

About 15 years ago, I was on a flight arranged as part of the cruise (the first/only time I ever did that, thus far), and the flight was cancelled. I missed the departure in Miami.

It was a closed loop cruise, Miami to Miami.

 

The cruiseline and the airline somehow managed to get me on a midnight flight to Key West.

(I arrived in the wee hours, and was up early to greet the ship, and get settled in.)

 

Apparently the PVSA wasn't that big of an issue back then...?

I believe that you are missing the point. The PVSA prohibits the carriage of paying passengers BETWEEN TWO AMERICAN PORTS by ships which are not registered in America

Due to whatever mix-up, you wound up sailing to the Caribbean from Key West, and ending up in Miami.

Since you never traveled between two American ports by ship , how could that situation have violated the Act?

 

I believe that you are missing the point. The PVSA prohibits the carriage of paying passengers BETWEEN TWO AMERICAN PORTS by ships which are not registered in America

 

You missed the segment of your voyage between two American ports, but then sailed to the Caribbean from Key West, and ended up in Miami.

 

Since you never traveled between two American ports by ship , how could that situation have violated the Act?

My understanding, which certainly could be wrong, is that the PVSA would (should have?) prohibited the non-USA-flagged cruiseline from transporting me between Key West (a USA port) and Miami (a *different* USA port) instead of the planned Miami to Miami itinerary.

The itinerary did not include a requisite (forgetting the specific wording) "distant foreign port".

My understanding, which certainly could be wrong, is that the PVSA would (should have?) prohibited the non-USA-flagged cruiseline from transporting me between Key West (a USA port) and Miami (a *different* USA port) instead of the planned Miami to Miami itinerary.

 

The itinerary did not include a requisite (forgetting the specific wording) "distant foreign port".

Yes, but neither were you transported directly between the two ports, as their were other foreign ports in between on your itinerary.

I agree that the confusion occurs because those ports didn't fall under the definition of "distant foreign", but because the intent of the law is controlling transportation BETWEEN AMERICAN PORTS, it seems to have taken a long while for anyone to be silly enough to make an issue of not returning to the same port.

PVSA is a cabotage law, pure and simple, but lately they've allowed this "Distant Foreign"exception to wag the dog.

I suppose the question is, "Are we looking at a symptom of the dumbing down of the populace, or an example of bureaucracy run amok?

We need a test case.

My understanding, which certainly could be wrong, is that the PVSA would (should have?) prohibited the non-USA-flagged cruiseline from transporting me between Key West (a USA port) and Miami (a *different* USA port) instead of the planned Miami to Miami itinerary.

 

The itinerary did not include a requisite (forgetting the specific wording) "distant foreign port".

Yes, but neither were you transported directly between the two ports, as their were other foreign ports in between on your itinerary.

 

I agree that the confusion occurs because those ports didn't fall under the definition of "distant foreign", but because the intent of the law is controlling transportation BETWEEN AMERICAN PORTS, it seems to have taken a long while for anyone to be silly enough to make an issue of not returning to the same port.

 

PVSA is a cabotage law, pure and simple, but lately they've allowed this "Distant Foreign"exception to wag the dog.

 

I suppose the question is, "Are we looking at a symptom of the dumbing down of the populace, or an example of bureaucracy run amok?

 

We need a test case.

I believe that what has changed is the cruise line's willingness to pass the fine on to the passenger. In the example you are debating, yes, there was carriage between US ports as proscribed by the PVSA, it does not have to be direct from one US port to the other.

The cruise line, even 15 years ago, would have been fined by CBP for the violation. This is the important part; the company is liable for the fine, not the passenger. It is only by agreeing to the ticket contract that you give the cruise line the ability to pass the fine to you. In the past, the lines were more lenient in not passing the fine on, and even today, if there is some reason outside the cruise line's control, they can apply for an exemption. An example is a California coastal cruise that only has one foregin port call in Mexico. If the ship cannot make the port call due to weather, they can get an exemption for the thousands of passengers they would be fined for. Even missed port calls due to mechanical issues can be exempted. If a winter cruise has lots of people who have flights cancelled and have to join late, the cruise line will be fined, but will generally not pass the fine along.