can Europeans still book safely through US agencies

sw1002 · October 10, 2010

As this thread is growing i see more and more that goung with US TA might be a risk, but its calculable. The worst thing that can happen to you is that you have to pay the price difference between local and us princess price. Thats fair, I mean its a bit of cat and mice play. Personally I'm getting to that point that we will book through the US TA and keep in mind that it could happen that we pay more, and because of that we choose the cheapest inside cabin to let the price difference be tolerable.

antsp · October 10, 2010

These threads come round every now and then, to be fair, no one has ever posted that they have lost there booking or at the pier been charged more. what else is there to be said...

JPRLHR · October 10, 2010

So it turns out that if you find an us TA who books you with a valid US adress for example of your relatives, and if that booking is confirmed and appears in the cruise personalizer you can change the personal details and fill the cruise personalizer with your home country data and passport nr,

That is exactly what we have always done as instructed by the US T/A.

juggles · October 10, 2010

That is exactly what we have always done as instructed by the US T/A.

Yes that is what would have to be done, as I said anyone with a USA passport obviously can put their American address but someone, like me, with a UK passport can put an American address but will then have to submit proof of USA residency/green card; so I was relieved I was able to go into my personal details and change the bode of address to my UK one.

This doesn't apply if you are cruising round Europe [for UK citizens] as the cruise I had before, [2008] I did leave it as my American address but I suspect because it was a cruise of Italy/France [Europe] I didn't need to prove I lived in the US

Rassa · October 10, 2010

That's right, as an Aussie, I booked with the on line agent someone is talking about above and had no problem, WHATSOEVER. However, in the mean time, Celebrity also no longer allows Aussies to book through US travel agents. BUT Carnival still allow us to book with US travel agents and I think Norwegian does also. It is the shipping companies putting the rules there.

As I have said in the past, we Aussies buy all sorts of things from the US i.e. books from Amazon, anything on eBay, etc and they all take our money. There are rules in Australia that we must buy airline tickets for flights that leave from Australia BUT we can buy airline tickets from anywhere that do not include Australian Travel i.e. travel within the USA or Europe etc. I have and was not refused entry on Southwest Airlines.

jagoffee · October 11, 2010

Personally, the combination of these two factors suggests to me that the cruise lines’ flannel is simply covering up exactly that which you don’t believe, namely that it is Princess or Carnival or Royal Caribbean corporate policies to automatically charge people outside the US more simply because of their location. They have us by the short and curlies because they are able to do so by reference to the passengers’ address, and they are simply exploiting that ability for more revenue.

If it isn’t true, then let them come here (or anywhere) and (a) deny it; and (b) tell us in words of one syllable why this is justified and/or required.

Thank you for the detailed analysis. It still seems to me that the UK or EU based TAs are the ones that benefit the most from this policy. Don't you agree?

moniquet · October 11, 2010

Absolutely:mad:

Globaliser · October 11, 2010

My real issue with all this is that people don't ask the questions they should be asking, but instead just come here and complain that they are being treated unfairly. All the questions you ask, and they are good questions, should also be asked of the regulators, enforcers, watchdogs, and whomever else is in charge of playing field. Whose self interest is being served, how, and by whom? Regardless, it's the consumer that picks up the tab.

I agree that simply coming here and whining doesn't do much good. However, I don't cruise nearly enough to make this a worthwhile exercise for me personally. I hope that someone who is badly affected by it might try to get a regulator or watchdog (or a media correspondent) interested, and in past threads I have suggested some legal lines that might make Princess get a bit uncomfortable.

Indeed, if some travel journalist with some clout decides to get onto this story, that in itself could make Princess (and other lines that do this) quite uncomfortable. "Rip off Britain" is a good story when the facts can make it stick.

I personally do what every low-volume individual consumer can do: I won't buy a Princess cruise in the UK if I feel I am being ripped off by the pricing, and if I can't buy it in the US either I will take my money elsewhere - and not necessarily to another cruise line.

Now if it were an airline that was doing something like this and I was at the wrong end of it, I would be kicking up a fuss!

Because you don't bite the hand that feeds you. Especially if the other hand has a leash around your neck.

I'm not sure how blaming a government regulation (particularly if it's a piece of EU legislation) bites any hand that's feeding the cruise line. EU governments could not stop non-EU cruise lines from providing international transportation, just as the US government cannot do so. (All the PVSA problems arise from attempts to provide domestic transportation.)

It still seems to me that the UK or EU based TAs are the ones that benefit the most from this policy. Don't you agree?

I'm not sure that I necessarily do. In cash terms, the cruise lines themselves may well have more to gain from it than European TAs.

These are purely hypothetical figures, for the purposes of identifying the calculations that might have to be performed to work this out. But suppose the following parameters:-

A cruise bought in the EU is, on average, 25% more than the same cruise bought in the US.
The average commission paid by the cruise line to a travel agent is 10%.
If there were no restriction on Europeans buying from US travel agents, 10% of the European market would do so.

On those (purely hypothetical) figures, abolishing the restriction on European passengers buying from US travel agents means that the cruise line loses 1.8% of the total revenue from the European market. (10% of the market pays 80% of the European fare instead of 100% of the European fare, but the cruise line reduces the commission paid for those passengers to 80% of the European level). But European travel agents lose only 1% of the total revenue from the European market (10% of the market books elsewhere so the agents lose 10% of the revenue from that 10% of the market).

It's true that in percentage terms, the European travel agents lose 10% of their revenue doing this. But the cruise line is still losing almost twice as much cash by abolishing the restriction.

I've taken 10% of the European market booking in the US for these reasons: Most of the market is not sophisticated enough to think of cross-border booking. (Just look at the number of CC members, from all over, who won't even trust a local cab in the US to get them from the airport to the dock.) They will want to deal with people "here" whose brand names they know, or who they think they can trust, or into whose offices they can go to harangue someone if something goes wrong. And even if they think about cross-border booking, many will not trust some faraway foreign travel agent that they have no personal contact with. So it's not as if the European travel agents would have to shut up shop overnight.

Globaliser · October 11, 2010

If you are a citizen of the U.S. or Canada, have a residence in the U.S. or Canada, or travel on a U.S. or Canadian passport, we can help you with any cruise we offer.

And here is another indicator that suggests that it is not European regulations that prevent cruise lines from taking bookings in the US from European passengers, but just discrimination on the grounds of nationality for the purpose of commercial gain.*

Remember that the hypothesis is this: A cruise line that takes a booking in the US from a European passenger nevertheless becomes subject to European regulations for consumer protection. Because those regulations are (undoubtedly) more costly to comply with, that means that the cruise line may make a loss if it takes the US price but provides European levels of consumer protection.

However, the European regulations apply as much to US and Canadian citizens living in Europe as to European citizens (or indeed to citizens of any other country living in Europe). So if the cruise line takes a booking in the US from a US citizen living in Europe, it incurs just as much liability under the European regulations as it would do if it took a booking in the US from a European citizen living in Europe.

So why is the cruise line prepared to take the booking from the US citizen at a US price while providing a costly European level of consumer protection?

I can't help but think that the answer to that question is simply that the cruise line knows that the European regulations don't apply to the booking made by that US citizen; and that if they don't apply to that booking, they equally don't apply to a booking made by that hypothetical European citizen. And further that that is why the cruise lines do not blame European regulations for the prohibition on taking bookings in the US from European residents: they know that it would be untrue to do so.

* Before anyone raises an objection, I would like to point out that discrimination against an individual on the grounds of his nationality is illegal in the UK. So I use that phrase quite advisedly.

kloegel · October 17, 2010

The cruise lines are still making maney, even if no passanger is paying for there staterooms. Most of the moey is made from casino, and excursions.

By the way. Why do non US and Canadians get only 1 credit for single occupancy and not 2? They are paying already more for the cruise and not getting the same credits. The credits can't be part of the European market regulations :D

PatriciaF · October 18, 2010

I recently had to cancel an airline flight due to illness. When I called to cancel, I was told I would have a certain amount of "credit" to use for one year from initial purchase, less a $150 service fee. However, before the call terminated, I was asked if I was an EU resident--if so the rules were different.

Perhaps EU residents have more rights for refunds, etc., than we do as residents of the USA. As such, there is more risk to the cruiseline thus higher costs.

Just a guess--

Ellasmamma · November 13, 2010

That's right, as an Aussie, I booked with the on line agent someone is talking about above and had no problem, WHATSOEVER. However, in the mean time, Celebrity also no longer allows Aussies to book through US travel agents. BUT Carnival still allow us to book with US travel agents and I think Norwegian does also. It is the shipping companies putting the rules there.

As I have said in the past, we Aussies buy all sorts of things from the US i.e. books from Amazon, anything on eBay, etc and they all take our money. There are rules in Australia that we must buy airline tickets for flights that leave from Australia BUT we can buy airline tickets from anywhere that do not include Australian Travel i.e. travel within the USA or Europe etc. I have and was not refused entry on Southwest Airlines.

We are a swedish family of three adults and one infant flying to Miami in two weeks for a vacation. I have contacted several local T/A to ask them if we can book from the US since we want to be play it by ear once we get there what will do for our 3 weeks in the states. The answer I got was that Carnival is the only cruiseline we can book. Does anyone here know if this is true? We would prefer NCL since they have infant prices and better itenaries plus I have heared really mixed reviews about Carnival. I have cruised before with RCCL but booked through RCCL in Sweden. I had a really bad experience unboard and had to cancel an upcoming cruise three days before my sail date. I called RCCL in the US but they couldn't help and it was a real hazzle contacting them in Sweden. This is also why I would prefer booking throught the US so you can get help on the spot. The money you save is also a big plus :)

caribill · November 13, 2010

(Just look at the number of CC members, from all over, who won't even trust a local cab in the US to get them from the airport to the dock.)

Heck, I am in the USA and do not always trust a local cab to get me to the pier.

Once in NYC I hailed a cab about one mile from the pier. The driver had no idea how to get there.

Prepared for this, I had a detailed local street map and guided the driver to the pier, giving turn by turn instructions.

caribill · November 13, 2010

We are a swedish family of three adults and one infant flying to Miami in two weeks for a vacation. I have contacted several local T/A to ask them if we can book from the US since we want to be play it by ear once we get there what will do for our 3 weeks in the states.

You cannot assume that space will be available on a ship on such short notice. Maybe, maybe not.

iancal · November 13, 2010

So, when a European goes on line and books a hotel in Kalamazoo, Mich. does that person pay the going rate in London, Frankfurt, etc or do they pay the going rate in the US???

The answer is they pay the going rate in the US.

It could be because there is lots of competition in the hotel business. There are essentially only two cruise companies-Carnival Corp. and RCI. Maybe there is something to this monopoly/oligopoly business after all.

Ellasmamma · November 13, 2010

You cannot assume that space will be available on a ship on such short notice. Maybe, maybe not.

Of course we wont assume this, as I said we will play it by ear and then you take your chances, we have three weeks and the main thing is to have family time, if one option is fully booked (no cruises) then we will find another option, from what I understand there is no problem for us to book a plane ticket to an island and stay in a All Inclusive resort. The question is how many cruiseline options do we have if we decide to go that route? If not can any of you recomend what Caribbean island that is in season in the begining of december?

petez · April 13, 2011

That is exactly what we have always done as instructed by the US T/A.

Would it be possible to PM you with a couple of questions?

Thanks

kool kruiser · April 14, 2011

We use a US TA and have never had any issues.

Interestingly, after our first US booked cruise, when we used the TA's US address and then changed it to ours, we received a US Captains Circle number. We also purchased US FCCs onboard. After this cruise, we have simply quoted our vUS CC number and our FCC numbers when booking. Our UK home address is then shown on our booking from day one. It seems you may be OK after your first booking !!

petez · April 14, 2011

We use a US TA and have never had any issues.
Interestingly, after our first US booked cruise, when we used the TA's US address and then changed it to ours, we received a US Captains Circle number. We also purchased US FCCs onboard. After this cruise, we have simply quoted our vUS CC number and our FCC numbers when booking. Our UK home address is then shown on our booking from day one. It seems you may be OK after your first booking !!

Hi

Would it be possible to let me know which TA you use - otherwise we would be just taking pot luck and I would prefer to at least go to one who has done this for you

Thanks

moniquet · April 14, 2011

Would be interested to know too as all the major reputable ones have stopped taking bookings from Europe.

caribill · April 14, 2011

Hi
Would it be possible to let me know which TA you use - otherwise we would be just taking pot luck and I would prefer to at least go to one who has done this for you

Thanks

Would be interested to know too as all the major reputable ones have stopped taking bookings from Europe.

Sharing TA names and contact information is against Cruise Critic rules.

sjbj · April 15, 2011

As far as Princess goes, a non-US/Canadian can still book a cruise thru a US TA, BUT the TA will not get any commission on the booking. This policy is only a couple of months old and there are exceptions for clients that have a history of booking with a particular TA.

Katermuc · April 15, 2011

I had the same issue when trying to book a cruise with Princess a couple of months ago.

Most US-based TA`s had to turn me down, including the one I had used on previous bookings, whereas one had no problem accepting my booking.

The reason for this is apparently because they are an international TA.

It has so far not been an issue and we have updated our information on our booking online, including homeadress.

Contact me on katermuc at gmail dot com if you want some travel tips ;-)

I am sure that most cruiselines will slack this policy as time goes by. From what I can tell it`s mostly old policies that have resurfaced, nothing new basically. I guess they also do it to protect some of the handling-agents they use in Europe and other areas.

The issue for me is that the service and quality of these agents are bad for my country and I therefor have no interest in using them.

WeBeGone · April 15, 2011

Many cruise lines are now enforcing the cross-border rules. This means that US travel agencies may NOT sell cruises to international clients unless they also have a valid and verifiable address in the United States. The ONLY exception to this rule is Canadians, which are considered part of our North American contracts and not international clients. While in the majority of instances there will be no negative impact to the client, the cruise line will NOT pay you commission on the booking. There are no exceptions to this rule. As of this writing, please be aware of the following cruise line’s policies:

Even where it is currently OK to book international clients on select cruise lines, please be aware that these policies can change at any time.

Princess:

NO international bookings UNLESS the passenger was booked through you on a Princess sailing prior to 2010, in which case you can still book the client and be paid commission. You would need to be able to produce the booking number(s) for the earlier cruise(s) if verification was requested.

Cunard:

NO international bookings UNLESS the passenger was booked through you on a Cunard sailing prior to 2010, in which case you can still book the client and be paid commission. You would need to be able to produce the booking number(s) for the earlier cruise(s) if verification was requested.

Holland America:

No international bookings are accepted. The cruise line will either cancel the booking and notify you that it has been cancelled, take over the booking or refuse to pay commission.

Carnival: