Why is Dress Code Only Adhered To In The Dining Room...???

[Globaliser]

If HAL just changed the wording of formal night to be smart casual, formal optional, would you be OK with that?

I would be most happy with this! Those who wish to "dress up" could continue to do so!

It wouldn't work like this.

 

I've cruised a lot on NCL, where the "Freestyle" format means exactly this. And pretty much nobody dresses up at all, ever. It got to the point where, on my last NCL cruise, I had all of my formal stuff hanging in the cupboard (because of the cruise that I'd been on the previous week) but did not wear it. There's no point being the only person dressed up, which is why pretty much nobody does it even if they would love to dress up in other circumstances.

 

Constant casualness is one of the reasons I wouldn't choose to cruise on NCL, if I had a choice of line. And that's why this year, because I don't have to do an NCL cruise, I'm back to HAL after a long absence - I've really missed it and some of my best cruise experiences have been onboard HAL ships. But if HAL were to go the same way as NCL, it would become less attractive.

[SwissMyst]

There are many posted ship rules and guidelines that don't generate the vitriol that dress guidelines engender. Always a curiosity why it brings such predictable argument and straw dogs still hiding what is really at stake here.

 

Passengers tend to follow "crew only" restrictions to certain parts of the ship. Smoking in certain areas only have been universally followed. One never sees Clothing optional swimming and hot tub use. Only very rarely does one see robes and pajamas at breakfast. (Neptune Lounge.) Loud noise and excess inebriation rarely violate expected passenger norms.

 

Yet, certain passengers relish flaunting clear, written dress formal guidelines for four hours of their entire cruise experience. And that one incidence of wholesale petty and intentionally rebellion arouses lusty cheers from the scofflaw set. A point of enduring curiosity and growing distaste about HAL's ambivalence about this matter.

 

Agree, what is the point of guidelines if there is no ability to carry them out in the face of passenger rebellion. But why do passengers choose this guideline and not the "crew only" restrictions or the no smoking restriction or any one of the multitudes of other restrictions they willingly sign up for when they choose to board ships.

 

Dig deeper folks, and tell us more about the soul of this continuing debate because it smacks of disingenuousness. Admit your own inner reverse snobbery is at stake, okay?

[SwissMyst]

It wouldn't work like this.

 

I've cruised a lot on NCL, where the "Freestyle" format means exactly this. And pretty much nobody dresses up at all, ever. It got to the point where, on my last NCL cruise, I had all of my formal stuff hanging in the cupboard (because of the cruise that I'd been on the previous week) but did not wear it. There's no point being the only person dressed up, which is why pretty much nobody does it even if they would love to dress up in other circumstances.

 

Constant casualness is one of the reasons I wouldn't choose to cruise on NCL, if I had a choice of line. And that's why this year, because I don't have to do an NCL cruise, I'm back to HAL after a long absence - I've really missed it and some of my best cruise experiences have been onboard HAL ships. But if HAL were to go the same way as NCL, it would become less attractive.

 

Thank you for this post. HAL needs to know this is not a minority opinion, particularly when so many other ships do offer 100% casual for passengers who want to choose this option rather than inflict it on HAL ships regardless of prior acceptance of HAL guidelines and convention.

 

That remains the oddity. When there are so many casual options on other cruise lines, why stake petty rebellions on HAL ships who have chosen to maintain formal night dining in the main dining room on a few evenings out of the entire cruise.

 

Why can't this group of rebellious passengers concede those four hours to people who signed up with clear written expectations they would enjoy a few hours of formal dining in a formal setting?

[arewethereyet]

The point is dealing with those who come on board and intentionally flaunt written guidelines. No, I don't want them in my life boat.

Well, I didn't ask who you wanted in your lifeboat.

 

If HAL changed the wording of their formal night to "Smart casual, formal optional" would that satisfy you?

[Opinions]

Why can't this group of rebellious passengers concede those four hours to people who signed up with clear written expectations they would enjoy a few hours of formal dining in a formal setting?

 

Where is this "group of rebellious passengers"...I haven't found many on HAL...Of course you will find some very outspoken ones on this board...But in my opinion they aren't typical of what you will find on board...I hope you don't consider "rebellious" those who respect the code and eat in the Lido on formal nights.

[Opinions]

If HAL just changed the wording of formal night to be smart casual, formal optional, would you be OK with that?

 

On a Med cruise with HAL they changed one of the scheduled formal nights to Formal-Optional...One had the choice of dressing formal or smart casual...There seemed to be a 50/50 split how everyone dressed...Didn't hear any complaints...It was a port day with all-day tours and I welcomed the opportunity to dress casual after touring all day.

[kazu]

On a Med cruise with HAL they changed one of the scheduled formal nights to Formal-Optional...One had the choice of dressing formal or smart casual...There seemed to be a 50/50 split how everyone dressed...Didn't hear any complaints...It was a port day with all-day tours and I welcomed the opportunity to dress casual after touring all day.

 

We had one of those too on our last cruise. Mind you, there were 4 formal nights. I thought it was very ingenuous as a lot of people who were on first sitting would be forced to eat in the lido anyways and those of us returning barely made it to dinner let alone, time to look very glamorous. dh and I did dress nicely mind you but it wasn't quite as great as a standard 'formal' night. (no tie for dh;))

[3rdGenCunarder]

On a Med cruise with HAL they changed one of the scheduled formal nights to Formal-Optional...One had the choice of dressing formal or smart casual...There seemed to be a 50/50 split how everyone dressed...Didn't hear any complaints...It was a port day with all-day tours and I welcomed the opportunity to dress casual after touring all day.

 

They made a similar change on our Alaska cruise. In addition to the 7 days, we added the first 3 of the Panama Canal cruise that followed (we got off in San Francisco). Lots of people boarded in Vancouver for both the whole canal cruise and the 3-day optionb to San Francisco. For some reason, those of us on the "collector" cruise and on the Panama Canal cruise had a sea day listed as formal. But the 3-day people had not been told there would be a formal night.

 

The CD made an announcement that the evening would be "formal optional," and then went on to explain it in a way that sounded like anything would be OK, even though that was not what he MEANT. Most people in the MDR were dressed for formal night. A young couple showed up for dinner at the MDR in cargo shorts and printed t-shirts, and were turned away. It was the right thing to do in terms of dress code, but because of the CD's announcement, I could see why they thought they were OK. They looked at the passengers around them and didn't argue.

[kazu]

 

Passengers tend to follow "crew only" restrictions to certain parts of the ship. Smoking in certain areas only have been universally followed. One never sees Clothing optional swimming and hot tub use. Only very rarely does one see robes and pajamas at breakfast. (Neptune Lounge.) Loud noise and excess inebriation rarely violate expected passenger norms.

 

 

I'm just curious here SwissMyst - are you saying you rarely saw bathrobes in the Neptune Lounge or the reverse? I have to say on our last cruise i could not believe the number of people who wore bathrobes in their (and sat down to eat:eek:) Each to their own, but I always put on clothing before I go to the Neptune Lounge even early morning. :p

[1 HappyCruiser]

I'm just curious here SwissMyst - are you saying you rarely saw bathrobes in the Neptune Lounge or the reverse? I have to say on our last cruise i could not believe the number of people who wore bathrobes in their (and sat down to eat:eek:) Each to their own, but I always put on clothing before I go to the Neptune Lounge even early morning. :p

 

It could have been they were in the pool for an early morning swim & then went to eat. What could be wring with that?

[kazu]

It could have been they were in the pool for an early morning swim & then went to eat. What could be wring with that?

 

there are times to post and times not to post. :p The Neptune Lounge has absolutely nothing to do with swimming or even necessarily eating, but eating is one of the things it offers.

 

Trust me, for many, the Neptune Lounge is their first stop in the morning. They are NOT coming from the pool, coming from their suites;)

[3rdGenCunarder]

I'm just curious here SwissMyst - are you saying you rarely saw bathrobes in the Neptune Lounge or the reverse? I have to say on our last cruise i could not believe the number of people who wore bathrobes in their (and sat down to eat:eek:) Each to their own, but I always put on clothing before I go to the Neptune Lounge even early morning. :p

 

I can see running across the hall to get a cup of coffee to take back to the room. I can "forgive" a bathrobe there. But not to sit and eat in the lounge. I don't recall seeing anyone in the Neptune in their robes. But I'm not an early riser, so I could have missed such sartorial wonders.

[1 HappyCruiser]

there are times to post and times not to post. :p The Neptune Lounge has absolutely nothing to do with swimming or even necessarily eating, but eating is one of the things it offers.

 

Trust me, for many, the Neptune Lounge is their first stop in the morning. They are NOT coming from the pool, coming from their suites;)

 

And all this time I though it was a dining area. :DAfter our HAL cruise I'll know better. Thanks.

[iancal]

We are not exactly 'rebellious' people. We are in our late 50's.

 

When we travel HAL, Princess, or Celebrity we pass on formal nights, dress business casual, and dine at an alternative venue.

 

After that, we throw caution to the wind, completely ignore the rules, and travel to other areas of the ship including the shops, lounges, and casino. And we actually do this in the knowldege that we are breaking the suggested guidelines on HAL and Princess by doing so. It must be this thrill that keeps us at it. And no, we do not change from business casual to ripped shorts, t shirts, or flip flops after dinner in the alternative venue.

 

We must be that type of people-rebellious, uncaring, not the sort of folk that you would want to be around in case of an emergency.

 

But we hide it well, most would think that we are just a couple or early retirees enjoying themselves on a cruise.

 

I actually think that we are a target market for these cruise lines. Somehow, I do not think that HAL or Princess would like us to cease cruising on their ships in favor of rival Celebrity because of our anti social behavior. And to make matters even worse, we have absolutely no issue with cruisers wearing bathrobes to the pool. I know this indiffernce may shock some HAL cruisers but we just cannot muster that degree of self importance that would make us assume that we should be the arbiter of poolside dress, or any dress for that matter, on a cruise line.

 

Besides, we are too busy minding our own business and having a good time.

[3rdGenCunarder]

And all this time I though it was a dining area. :DAfter our HAL cruise I'll know better. Thanks.

 

More like a snack area. Are you in a Deluxe suite or Penthouse? the Neptune Lounge is the concierge lounge for those cabin grades.

[arewethereyet]

^^^^^^^ what iancal said.

 

Thank you for posting this little bit of common sense.

 

Yours truly,

Another rebellious tourist

[1 HappyCruiser]

We are not exactly 'rebellious' people. We are in our late 50's.

 

When we travel HAL, Princess, or Celebrity we pass on formal nights, dress business casual, and dine at an alternative venue.

 

After that, we throw caution to the wind, completely ignore the rules, and travel to other areas of the ship including the shops, lounges, and casino. And we actually do this in the knowldege that we are breaking the suggested guidelines on HAL and Princess by doing so. It must be this thrill that keeps us at it. And no, we do not change from business casual to ripped shorts, t shirts, or flip flops after dinner in the alternative venue.

 

We must be that type of people-rebellious, uncaring, not the sort of folk that you would want to be around in case of an emergency.

 

But we hide it well, most would think that we are just a couple or early retirees enjoying themselves on a cruise.

 

I actually think that we are a target market for these cruise lines. Somehow, I do not think that HAL or Princess would like us to cease cruising on their ships in favor of rival Celebrity because of our anti social behavior. And to make matters even worse, we have absolutely no issue with cruisers wearing bathrobes to the pool. I know this indiffernce may shock some HAL cruisers but we just cannot muster that degree of self importance that would make us assume that we should be the arbiter of poolside dress, or any dress for that matter, on a cruise line.

 

Besides, we are too busy minding our own business and having a good time.

 

Princess dress code only suggests dressing for the dining room only & there is no suggested dress for the lounges.

More like a snack area. Are you in a Deluxe suite or Penthouse? the Neptune Lounge is the concierge lounge for those cabin grades.

 

Neither, so I guess we won't be invited to the Neptune Lounge.

[centuryguy]

For some reason you keep getting hung up on what people wear superseding what people choose to do. If they flaunt rules, conventions and/or guidelines and intentionally choose to put themselves first, last and always I don't want to share their lifeboat and have them put themselves first as proven by past behavior. Stick to the argument.

 

I am sticking the argument. I've responded precisely to points you brought up first.

[arewethereyet]

Plain and simple, a cruise line (any cruise line) is a business, not an exclusive country club. If you don’t fill the ships and sell extras like drinks, etc. , you won’t be in business very long. Make the rules too strict and people will stop going on that particular cruise line. Tell people they can't frequent any of the clubs or other areas of the ship, because they aren't dressed properly and you will loose revenue for that night. It's real easy to say "Well those people that don't want to adhere to the dress code should just go on....", but that's not dealing with reality. I imagine the cruise lines are playing a constant balancing act, trying to keep the majority of the passengers happy.

There it is folks.

 

Well said.

[centuryguy]

There are many posted ship rules and guidelines that don't generate the vitriol that dress guidelines engender. Always a curiosity why it brings such predictable argument and straw dogs still hiding what is really at stake here.

 

Passengers tend to follow "crew only" restrictions to certain parts of the ship. Smoking in certain areas only have been universally followed. One never sees Clothing optional swimming and hot tub use. Only very rarely does one see robes and pajamas at breakfast. (Neptune Lounge.) Loud noise and excess inebriation rarely violate expected passenger norms.

 

Yet, certain passengers relish flaunting clear, written dress formal guidelines for four hours of their entire cruise experience. And that one incidence of wholesale petty and intentionally rebellion arouses lusty cheers from the scofflaw set. A point of enduring curiosity and growing distaste about HAL's ambivalence about this matter.

 

Agree, what is the point of guidelines if there is no ability to carry them out in the face of passenger rebellion. But why do passengers choose this guideline and not the "crew only" restrictions or the no smoking restriction or any one of the multitudes of other restrictions they willingly sign up for when they choose to board ships.

 

Dig deeper folks, and tell us more about the soul of this continuing debate because it smacks of disingenuousness. Admit your own inner reverse snobbery is at stake, okay?

 

It's really very simple. You have to compare apples to apples, so to speak. The world is not all black and white. Some behaviors are more egregious than others. For example, people follow crew only restrictions because there are consequences for violating them. That rule is absolute; it is not a suggestion. Flagrantly violating it will likely get you kicked off the ship.

 

There are no consequences for failing to wear formal clothing. HAL essentially makes formality a suggestion, therefore, it is viewed as a rule that is optional. They have apparently decided that smart casual is the base point, as some have reported that people attired in shorts and t-shirts have been turned away from the MDR. That restriction appears to be black and white. Either abide by it or you will not have access to the MDR.

 

HAL would be doing everyone a favor by making up their mind one way or the other regarding this issue, but they can't afford to. They understand that if they do, they will eliminate a portion of their customer base. HAL is essentially trying to be all things to all people.

[arewethereyet]

And since we already have a reference to how awful it might be to share a lifeboat with a rebellious passenger who has a wanton disregard for the dress suggestions of HAL, I keep thinking how much trouble has been caused by obsessively compliant sheeple.

 

Think Europe 1930s.

[ellieanne]

Yet, certain passengers relish flaunting clear, written dress formal guidelines for four hours of their entire cruise experience.

 

You say FOUR hours of the entire cruise experience. That accounts for the two meals in the MDR. I have no problem with dressing for dinner. What I have a problem with is expecting me to stay dressed in the public areas of the ship, even if I AM NOT participating in the scheduled, organized events for the evening. That time accounts for more than four hours. And that's where the rub comes in in my opinion.

 

I should not have to stay formally dressed to enjoy a book and a cup of cocoa in a public lounge. I should not have to stay formally dressed to have a nightcap in one of the bars. I should not have to stay hiding in my cabin. And to tell you the truth, I will not.

[kazu]

I can see running across the hall to get a cup of coffee to take back to the room. I can "forgive" a bathrobe there. But not to sit and eat in the lounge. I don't recall seeing anyone in the Neptune in their robes. But I'm not an early riser, so I could have missed such sartorial wonders.

 

Seriously Kathy, on our last TA on the NA for 20 days, there was only one other person dressed besides myself & dh in the Neptune lounge. Yes, I can live with 8 am, but 9 or 9:30? I'm not joking. they were all in bathrobes.

 

Each to their own;) I wouldn't do it. But I have seen it. I saw it the year before too on our other TA but not to that extreme. I'm guessing some saw it and decided since they were doing they would too:confused: don't know but I would NEVER do it. Just me and each to their own;);)

[cruisemom42]

And since we already have a reference to how awful it might be to share a lifeboat with a rebellious passenger who has a wanton disregard for the dress suggestions of HAL, I keep thinking how much trouble has been caused by obsessively compliant sheeple.

 

Think Europe 1930s.

 

Umm, are you actually comparing people who follow the innocuous request of a cruise line to dress up for a few evenings with German citizens that did not stand up against Hitler?

 

I have no horse in this race, but I find that EXTREMELY offensive, and would think anyone who had a relative or acquaintance that suffered through that time (in a concentration camp, as a refugee, as a soldier) would also. Talk about cheapening a horrific experience. :mad:

[arewethereyet]

Umm, are you actually comparing people who follow the innocuous request of a cruise line to dress up for a few evenings with German citizens that did not stand up against Hitler?

 

I have no horse in this race, but I find that EXTREMELY offensive, and would think anyone who had a relative or acquaintance that suffered through that time (in a concentration camp, as a refugee, as a soldier) would also. Talk about cheapening a horrific experience. :mad:

 

Nope! Just showing how absurd this thread got. It's as ridiculous as fearing having a dangerous dress code offender in your lifeboat. ;)