opting out of auto tipping?

[paul929207]

An interesting perspective.

 

Does it make anyone in US uneasy that major, profitable businesses pay so little tax, particularly when times are tough.

 

Wonder how much tax income is lost to the US because of avoiding taxes through low staff costs paired with service tips?

Our five largest oil companies made $135,000,000,000 (yes those are billions) and the US tax code gave them $10,000,000,000 in subsidies. They pay no income tax. So why would we worry about Carnival Corp only paying a little in taxes.

[ladybug1s]

You know- perhaps your consultant wants to make a sell and get his/her commission-think used car salesman. Now, I am not complaining about travel agents, once you used one a couple of times then they really look out for you-but as a first time buyer, they have no idea if or when you will come back.

 

Besides I doubt your Ta worded it that way. No reputable TA would anyway.

 

I hate to say it-but it would be good IF cruiselines just added this upfront into the fee-as the fares seem reasonable to people and so often attracts people who really cannot afford to cruise.

 

Just to let you know-alcoholic drinks cost what they would in a bar/restaurant. If Your kid likes to drink a lot of coke/sodas-buy that soda card to save money in the long run. There are also pinball machines on cruises that cost $$$ the way these young teens like to play them. You may find out that the big expense on the cruise is NOT your auto tip but other things. I remember once a man in the elevator the last morning on RCI Mariner of the Seas fussing that his 2 kids ran up $800 on his bill for gourmet ice cream,sodas, and pin ball machines.

I remember once a man in the elevator the last morning on RCI Mariner of the Seas fussing that his 2 kids ran up $800 on his bill for gourmet ice cream,sodas, and pin ball machines.

 

I just heard last night on the news, kids downloaded a video or two on there iPhones and got a whooping 1400.00 bill. And to the poster who smartly commented on the walkie talkies;) Yeah, I love my kids, and thanks for reading up on me;))

[snaebyllej]

Removing our auto-tips did affect us on the Ruby Princess last year, but not in the way you'd think. Unfortunately, it wasn't us who removed them; someone else who tried to remove theirs did ours instead, and it took multiple visits to the front desk and then a bunch of phone calls after the cruise to get finally get them put back on our account.

[helpthejuggler]

The cruise lines look at it this way-MOST people who remove the auto tips DO NOT tip to the amount of the auto-tip. Or don't tip at all.

 

$10-12 per day x 7 x 2 people is at least $140. Very often, the two people a cruiser has the MOST contact with are the room steward and their waiter/assistant waiter. So if they hand the room steward and waiter both $50 (which a LOT of people would think is a HUGE amount) and the assistant waiter $20, they had STIFFED the staff and paid less than the auto tip. And what about all the behind the scenes people you never run into or if you eat in the buffet, who are you going to tip? Walk down the line handing everyone at every station $5.00 per meal???

 

You are from the UK and your custom is generally not to tip. But I have spent enough time in Europe to see the 10-20% SERVICE charge added onto the bill at most restaurants. I have NO OPTION to remove that even if I got crap service. Well, I guess I could but who wants to stand around arguing with a restaurant manager? So what is the difference between the service charge imposed in UK (and other countries) restaurants and that on a cruise ship?

 

And the real killer-the UK restaurant owner doesn't even have to share the SERVICE charge with the wait staff and uses the same ploy that a lot of restaurants do in the US-below minimum wage with XXX amount of the tips to make up the minimum wage which must be turned in to the restaurant to be paid BACK as salary. Anything OVER the minimum wage can be kept by the wait staff in the US. Doesn't appear to be that way in the UK.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8281191.stm

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/oct/01/tips-restaurants-unite-protest

 

Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, I would say.

 

 

You may be correct that many auto-tip removers pay less than the auto-tip or even nothing.

Some people can be changed with information, others know already and that is their business.

 

I've read that many people dislike pre/pay and auto-tips from a point of principle.

Some come from tipping cultures where they are adverse to the idea of paying before the service.

 

Others from non-tipping cultures where as you suggest they don't tip much, regardless of the service level.

 

Cruiselines are multi-national businesses who must appreciate the differing cultures of the world.

They attempt to educate and provide the information that paying for service is a cruising tradition.

However, they are very poor at explaining what happens with pre-pay/auto-tips vs opting out and having to pool cash later.

This question gets asked frequently on CC where I guess you find more informed passengers.

If this isn't on the websites or in brochures that in itself is part of the problem.

 

 

Another aspect of the required global understanding is that many parts of the world instantly see tips/gratuity as optional.

It is hard to criticise, when the cruiselines could ensure less confusion by using the term 'Service Charge'. I know some do already...

 

There only difference IMO is a UK service charge is always clear and up-front rather than 'suggested/recommended gratuity'.

Most UK bookings default to pre-pay. UK passengers sailing with the idea that it is already dealt with, so we don't leave a $1 confetti trail of tips.

 

 

I agree that a 'service charge' in the UK is hardly ever disputed, unless it really was 'crappy'.

Optional with a stronger sense of compulsion than the a tip or gratuity (a word we don't use).

Although mandatory service charges are less widespread than you suggest. It is common for a service charge with large parties and some places do explicitly say 'Service not Included'.

 

Another reason to change the terminology to suit the wider world.

 

 

The balance between inclusive features vs paid for extras is different outside of the US.

Earlier in this thread changing towels and providing clean sheets etc as reasons to pay tips.

In a UK hotel you would not think to pay for this any more than you would for say hot water or electricity or a roof.

 

 

I sense a general imbalance in worldwide pricing. Countries who get 'stiffed' when they book feel that they have already paid enough.

Subjectively I read that in the US $100 pppn is a good deal. I never see fares that low, £100/$150 pppn is closer to a good deal and often we have paid closer to $200 pppn. On a popular UK line, fares are even higher $230-$250 pppn but drinks are cheaper and the service charges are lower.

So no surprise that when trying a US cruise line some of the pre-conceptions stick and influence behaviour.

Higher prices lead to an expectation that clean towels and basic hotel services are included.

 

These links you quite refer to changes to ensure that tips remain just that. The minimum wage is protected as must be borne as part of the business costs.

In principle it seems hard to disagree with the intent.

[momofmeg]

I remember once a man in the elevator the last morning on RCI Mariner of the Seas fussing that his 2 kids ran up $800 on his bill for gourmet ice cream,sodas, and pin ball machines.

 

I just heard last night on the news, kids downloaded a video or two on there iPhones and got a whooping 1400.00 bill. And to the poster who smartly commented on the walkie talkies;) Yeah, I love my kids, and thanks for reading up on me;))

 

You can put a cap on what you son is allowed to spend. I advise it as teens don't always think.

[swsfrail]

Thanks and I agree. Just got done reading "Cruise Confidential" in 10 hours ! It was a good read! Now I'm reading , "The Truth About Cruise Ships". I am trying to learn all I can about the industry inside and out! LOL Anyone else have any good reads! Lets all shake hands and be friends now...birdies singing in my ear.

 

Yes, do read those biased, one sided views of the cruise industry. I'm sure you will be much more enlightened after reading those two literary jewels. :rolleyes:

 

BTW, I plan on tipping my steward a BIG tip when I first get there.

 

In some cultures tipping in advance would be perceived as a bribe for preferential treatment, but don't let that deter you from your ultimate goal of having full control over how much, or most likely how little, you insist on tipping :(

[njhorseman]

Nope. That would actually be LOSING money. It isn't a straight-up trade.

 

I'm using an intentionally oversimplified example for the purpose of emphasizing that income taxes are paid on profits, not gross revenue.

 

By the way, the two arguments most commonly used on Cruise Critic in an attempt to show that the cruise lines would lose money if the transaction was handled differently are myths.

 

The first, that commission would have to be paid to travel agents if the cost of salary was included in the fare rather than as an on board transaction holds no water because the cruise lines would be able to include this amount in the non commissionable fare (NCF). There are no controls over what they can include in the NCF...and even today, where passengers have the option to prepay your tips/service charge/hotel charge, no commission is paid even though it's collected up front. (By the way I'm familiar with this because I formerly owned a travel agency.)

 

The second...that it would cost cruise lines the percentage they pay to credit card processors if the money were paid up front also is invalid because they are already paying that percentage as the vast majority of passengers use a credit card to settle their on board accounts. So, it's the same money funneled through credit cards, either paid before the cruise with the fare or at the end of the cruise as part of the on board charges.

 

In reality, there is one and only one reason other than tradition for handling crew compensation this way...it allows the cruise lines to advertise very low lead in fares. They wouldn't be able to advertise one week cruises from, say $299, if they had to include salaries, and for that matter government taxes and fees, in their advertised prices.

[navybankerteacher]

One thing overlooked in all these discussion is the notion of pay for performance - rather than flat hourly, weekly, or whatever.

 

A major reason people like cruising is the service received from the staff. The better the service, the more enjoyable the cruise. The present system on U S based cruises essentially provides three levels of compensation to the crew members who provide the service:

 

A) The basic salary - say $100 or $200 per month (admittedly minimal) plus room and board.

 

B) The shared service charge (when not removed by passengers) which represents an indirect amount based upon the aggregate amount left in place by the passengers - the more the average passenger appreciated the service, the higher each crew member's share would be.

 

C) the individual tips given by passengers (who left service charge in place) to those crew members who individually contributed to their enjoyment of the cruise.

 

If the crew, working as a team, gave general good service, then each member of the team would receive a share. If the individual then, on his own, gave superior service, then reasonably grateful passengers woulld give an extra tip.

 

This all ads up to an incentive-based pay program. If it results in encouraging the staff to provide good service (which is a major element in what passengers hope to get when they pay for a cruise), then such an incentive-based program makes more sense then one in which crew members receive the "decent basic pay" which some people advocate - regardless of the quality of the service provided.

[irukandjisting]

Just off a P n O Aussie cruise - the cleaner from the Phillipines we were talking to in the wee hours said his daily pay roughly worked out to 30 dollars, a long day I think 11 or 12 hours, 7 days a week for 9 months - so roughly 900 a month

 

80 pc is sent back home to his family, as per contract he said

 

On a previous P n O cruise - this would be 4 years ago - another waiter told us he was on 4 dollars an hour x 11 or 12 hours a day x 7 days x 9 months

 

P n O have voluntary tipping - great idea - everyone we know had said they would be tipping on the last night by leaving an evelope in their cabin or to the waiter in the restaurant and we tipped along the way as well in Aussie cash, not for each drink or whatever - just a note here and there, just because we liked the person, they had a nice aura, or we befriended them, and not just for service or not - it's not expected to keep reaching in your pocket...

 

Very relaxed cruise - no dramas, no keeping up with the Joneses .... must say have found with P n O, Australia, it is always a pleasure - easy as :cool:... wonders if this relaxed 'aussie' style of cruising can be found elsewhere

[greatam]

I will indeed hand my steward a big bill the beginning of the trip and something at the end. I am sure he will keep the first big bill to himself since tips are not expected till the end. And the last bill will be auto pooled , in which he will get a bigger tip for himself. That is the way I see it? I just voiced an opinion and boy, did I step on some toes. Very touchy subject. lol I'm done, but thanks for the ones understanding of it. Happy Cruising!!

__________________

 

You REALLY don't get it, do you!!!

 

IF a passenger has opted out of auto tips, ALL MONEY given directly to crew MUST be turned in. Doesn't matter whether it is at the beginning, the middle or the end. This is in the crew's contract and IF they don't turn it in they are subject to being fired (and sometimes let off at the next port, to find their OWN way home), not having their contract renewed, notes put in their employee file where they may not get another cruise line job even at a different cruise line or demoted to a lesser position. The cruise line looks at it as stealing and so do the other employees.

 

Doesn't matter when you opt out, you opted out and the money MUST be turned over. Crew quarters are a small city and I guarantee you someone with an extra couple of hundred extra will get ratted off rather quickly.

 

And since the largest bill commonly available is $100 and you have already stated that the tips for your cruise will be $300-500, better make that TWO large bills at the beginning and TWO or THREE large bills at the end or you have in essence STIFFED the crew.

 

How do you figure he will get a larger tip for himself??? That went waaay over my head. The cruise lines figure in the auto tip at XXX per day for the steward, XXX for the waiter, XXX for the assistant waiter, XXX for the maitre 'd, etc. etc. Different cruise lines have different figures per day. Out of those amounts, the employees you interact with share with the assistant stewards, the cooks, the laundry, etc. etc.

 

And on some cruise lines the auto tips show up DAILY, so it is NOT like it is all added in at the end. The end is when the charges are sent to your credit card company. You really think the cruise line is going to let someone wipe out their credit limit spending on crap or shore excursions or booze and then NOT have the money/credit limit to pay the auto tips if they didn't opt out. No, they are going to take care of the crew first. So how you figure he gets a larger tip for himself is some new math I guess. It becomes really embarrassing when you have to sign promissory notes to pay your "on the cruise" debt.

 

Enjoy your cruise. I sure hope it is up to YOUR standards.

[luddite]

You REALLY don't get it, do you!!!

 

IF a passenger has opted out of auto tips, ALL MONEY given directly to crew MUST be turned in. Doesn't matter whether it is at the beginning, the middle or the end. This is in the crew's contract and IF they don't turn it in they are subject to being fired (and sometimes let off at the next port, to find their OWN way home), not having their contract renewed, notes put in their employee file where they may not get another cruise line job even at a different cruise line or demoted to a lesser position. The cruise line looks at it as stealing and so do the other employees.

 

Doesn't matter when you opt out, you opted out and the money MUST be turned over. Crew quarters are a small city and I guarantee you someone with an extra couple of hundred extra will get ratted off rather quickly.

 

And since the largest bill commonly available is $100 and you have already stated that the tips for your cruise will be $300-500, better make that TWO large bills at the beginning and TWO or THREE large bills at the end or you have in essence STIFFED the crew.

 

How do you figure he will get a larger tip for himself??? That went waaay over my head. The cruise lines figure in the auto tip at XXX per day for the steward, XXX for the waiter, XXX for the assistant waiter, XXX for the maitre 'd, etc. etc. Different cruise lines have different figures per day. Out of those amounts, the employees you interact with share with the assistant stewards, the cooks, the laundry, etc. etc.

 

And on some cruise lines the auto tips show up DAILY, so it is NOT like it is all added in at the end. The end is when the charges are sent to your credit card company. You really think the cruise line is going to let someone wipe out their credit limit spending on crap or shore excursions or booze and then NOT have the money/credit limit to pay the auto tips if they didn't opt out. No, they are going to take care of the crew first. So how you figure he gets a larger tip for himself is some new math I guess. It becomes really embarrassing when you have to sign promissory notes to pay your "on the cruise" debt.

 

Enjoy your cruise. I sure hope it is up to YOUR standards.

I think you're correct. She isn't comprehending the reality.

[fortinweb]

You REALLY don't get it, do you!!!

 

I think you're correct. She isn't comprehending the reality.

 

As the old expression goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it understand" or something like that :D

[navybankerteacher]

I think you're correct. She isn't comprehending the reality.

You're right - ladybug is continually twisting in her efforts to justify turning off service charge. I couldn't care less whether she wants to stiff the staff - I just find her evolving self-justification tiresome.

[fmhealth]

My wife & I ALWAYS opt-out of prepaying gratuities. We don't tip in advance in a hotel or restaurant, why in the world would we do it on a cruise ship?

 

Most of our meals are in the WJ. Boy do we get superb service. Why, simply because serious money will be changing hands in short order. With rapier-like speed the staff quickly realizes that after our minimum requirements for each meal are met, a rather generous tip will be forthcoming. Same as a land based vacation. We tip NUMEROUS times everyday for the service that's provided.

 

I'd say on average we tip DOUBLE the suggested amount. These folks work hard & long and deserve the financial recognition that accompanies this type of service. I realize that folks like myself & the Mrs have the reputation of stiffing the staff. So be it. Can't live beneath the mistaken beliefs of other people. Each to their own.

 

How about the workers that you don't encounter on a regular basis or even encounter at all? We have the same philosophy that we embrace on land. Certain inequities are just that. Unfair on numerous levels & unfortunately many employees receive less than their efforts would dictate. We're actually very sensitive to this & do what we can. But ultimately this is what we're most comfortable with.

 

So, while most cruisers prepay & find that option the best for all concerned, and I admire that trait. Ultimately we as individuals take what we consider the appropriate steps to recognize & reward the staff. The preceeding works best for us & the folks we interact with.

 

Best of luck whichever course of action you follow. Most of all go in good health.

 

Sincerely,

FMHEALTH

[luddite]

My wife & I ALWAYS opt-out of prepaying gratuities. We don't tip in advance in a hotel or restaurant, why in the world would we do it on a cruise ship?

 

Most of our meals are in the WJ. Boy do we get superb service. Why, simply because serious money will be changing hands in short order. With rapier-like speed the staff quickly realizes that after our minimum requirements for each meal are met, a rather generous tip will be forthcoming. Same as a land based vacation. We tip NUMEROUS times everyday for the service that's provided.

 

I'd say on average we tip DOUBLE the suggested amount. These folks work hard & long and deserve the financial recognition that accompanies this type of service. I realize that folks like myself & the Mrs have the reputation of stiffing the staff. So be it. Can't live beneath the mistaken beliefs of other people. Each to their own.

 

How about the workers that you don't encounter on a regular basis or even encounter at all? We have the same philosophy that we embrace on land. Certain inequities are just that. Unfair on numerous levels & unfortunately many employees receive less than their efforts would dictate. We're actually very sensitive to this & do what we can. But ultimately this is what we're most comfortable with.

 

So, while most cruisers prepay & find that option the best for all concerned, and I admire that trait. Ultimately we as individuals take what we consider the appropriate steps to recognize & reward the staff. The preceeding works best for us & the folks we interact with.

 

Best of luck whichever course of action you follow. Most of all go in good health.

 

Sincerely,

FMHEALTH

 

So, you don't understand what a burden this is?

[askimdog]

Yes, a common fear many have is, if they don't pre-tip someone, bad service might occur. Some call it the "bribe". I have always left it on and adjust at the end if needed. Most of those who impressed me on the last cruise (last month) were behind the scene guys, ones I could never tip in person. My two main folks: room steward and wait team, basically never went above and beyond. Room Steward: just a few towel animals, never called me by name, one night bed was not turned down, smiled rarely, but room was always clean and ice bucket filled. Waiters, never had the same ones, and the few times I did do MDR it was painfully slow, so it kept me away from the MDR.

AND...I still had a great cruise, most of the staff was wonderful, of course except for the 4 workers arguing who will pick up the dropped potato salad 3 feet from them and 8 feet from us...btw, my wife got up and did it in front of them to the thanks of a family dining near by and the aghast looks of the 4 crew folks.

 

Everyone has a bad day, tip if you see fit. I work in the tourism industry pleasing folks on vacation all day, I sorta know the pain at times

[kitty9]

Ladybug, have you ever been on a cruise? From the sound of it, I'm guessing no. We are talking a lot here about cultural differences with regards to tipping, and one thing not really discussed is pre-tipping. Since the crew are from very different cultures than what you know, you need to realize that for many, giving them money up front is considered a HUGE insult. I've known many a crew person to not accept pre-tips because they view it as a bribe.

 

Believe me, you will NOT get better service because you give a worker $100 on the first day. I learned that one truth after 65 cruises. We pre-tipped a butler on a Cunard cruise, and despite that, the butler was the worst worker we ever experienced. A vast majority of workers are very proud of the job they do, and they provide great service without a bribe tip. And conversely, if you should happen upon a bad worker, they're going to be bad even if you give them $500.

[cruiselover57]

LOL No I do not want to stiff them. I would like to tip as I go along as I believe if the service is not up to standard then they do not deserve my tip, also if they are exceptional they deserve extra. Also my son who is 13 is travelling with me, I do not agree to the cruise liner charging a 13 yr old a daily fee for service (at the end of the day he's only a child) but hey that's just my opinion. Bearing in mind this my first ever cruise and I just want to enjoy it and not be stiffed myself :rolleyes:

 

I totally understand where you're coming from regarding your 13-year old. You're probably thinking because he's a child, he's obviously not eating a 5-course meal in the MDR like most adults do so therefore, why the need to tip the same right? I remember when we were on Celebrity, there was a lower tip given to anyone who had a child who was 11 or younger in there cabin - however, back then, you basically filled out a sheet that allocated tips to certain personnel (i.e., waiter, assistant waiter, cabin steward, etc.). We also had more flexibility being that he was the 3rd person in the room so we could allocate more to a certain person and give less to another (only if we felt the service wasn't as good) but obviously nowadays, everything is automated. My mom didn't want to do auto tipping too one time and just wanted to give cash to those who she felt were deserving but as we all know, they will have to turn in that cash and yes, they do know who takes off their tips. We leave it as is since we like the credit card points anyway but since they've raised the daily rate, we rarely tip anything extra - we feel for what we're paying, it's adequate and if we want to give a little extra in cash, we will do so for exceptional service.

[Cruisin' Chick]

As the old expression goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it understand" or something like that :D

 

So true for some people here. Was thumping my head several times on the western destinations board over someone not getting it when many of us were advising him that his plans to fly in the same day was dicey.

 

 

Yes, a common fear many have is, if they don't pre-tip someone, bad service might occur. Some call it the "bribe". I have always left it on and adjust at the end if needed. Most of those who impressed me on the last cruise (last month) were behind the scene guys, ones I could never tip in person. My two main folks: room steward and wait team, basically never went above and beyond. Room Steward: just a few towel animals, never called me by name, one night bed was not turned down, smiled rarely, but room was always clean and ice bucket filled. Waiters, never had the same ones, and the few times I did do MDR it was painfully slow, so it kept me away from the MDR.

AND...I still had a great cruise, most of the staff was wonderful, of course except for the 4 workers arguing who will pick up the dropped potato salad 3 feet from them and 8 feet from us...btw, my wife got up and did it in front of them to the thanks of a family dining near by and the aghast looks of the 4 crew folks.

 

Everyone has a bad day, tip if you see fit. I work in the tourism industry pleasing folks on vacation all day, I sorta know the pain at times

 

If you are feeling that the service isn't up to par, shouldn't you go to the front desk and let them know right away. Just suffering through slow service or the bed not turned down isn't necessary. But not every cruiseline has the stewards making towel animals (and that's not something I would even consider as a necessity). BTW, the way that it works on Princess (and maybe even other lines) is that the behind-the-scene staff is included in the tip pool.

[sparky-elpaso]

So true for some people here. Was thumping my head several times on the western destinations board over someone not getting it when many of us were advising him that his plans to fly in the same day was dicey.

 

 

 

 

If you are feeling that the service isn't up to par' date=' shouldn't you go to the front desk and let them know right away. Just suffering through slow service or the bed not turned down isn't necessary. But not every cruiseline has the stewards making towel animals (and that's not something I would even consider as a necessity). BTW, the way that it works on Princess (and maybe even other lines) is that the behind-the-scene staff is included in the tip pool.[/quote']

 

Right. If you're not satisfied with something let the front desk know. They can't fix what they don't know about.

[smeyer418]

I hate tipping threads. Sometimes they are posted by people who honestly don't know and are trying to find out. Sometimes they are posted by people with an axe to grind with a particular view of the world either its not their way or its really that they are just plain cheap. Many of the people who are asking if they can opt out are looking from an excuse(or they don't need an excuse see cheap above)...

 

Traditionally on landside restaurants the wait staff tips out the line chefs and dishwashers- sometimes. On cruise ships the traditionally tipped staff tipped out the people who provide them service. For the wait staff that is the line chef(the people who cook the food-not the head chef) and the dishwashers(or you won't have clean silverware) and the asst head waiter/ asst martreD(who is responsible for training and assignments). The room cleaning staff tipped out the laundry room(linen), the supply room(fresh linen) and the asst head housekeeper among some of them.

 

BTW I really don't like encouraging the real cheapos out there who in general aren't really asking this question because they want to tip directly they are really trying out how to tip less or not at all because its not their way-or because they are really just cheap. For them no amount of peer pressure or tradition will stop them from doing everything they can to save a few cents at the expense of the people who really serve them. After all its not the corporate cruise line you are shorting but the staff that has serve you and the people who serve them.

 

If you don't know it, on cruise ships its also the tradition that the crew tips the people who serve them. So that the person who cleans the rooms for the cruise staff(yes their rooms are cleaned too) are also tipped by the crew and the captain who is served his food also tips the staff.

I am just off a jewel class ship with a total of 5 who I was paying for including a 3 and 4 year old(in the same room as their divorced father-my son) who for 10 days cost $600 in tips without extras. I had considered for the younger one removing it for a number of reasons. A couple of years ago when the DSC for adults went from 10 to 12 dollars the 3-12 year olds went from 5 to 12. Since there were three in the room the additional amount of work for the steward isn't that great(and my son about half the time didn't either have the boys-they were in our room or he didn't let them in until he had a chance to get the room in some semblance of order). In the end I left it on after soul searching what I post here and gave extra to our stewardess for the fact she had to clean up extra when the boys were with us(if you have to ask I left her $50 extra).

 

The service people on most of the tipping cruise lines are paid a base salary of something around $100 per MONTH plus on board room and board and some on board medical care) here is a thread from someone who works/ed in the dining room that talks about this.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1107696

 

They do take home more because they get a draw against the tips and the tips themselves.

 

This method of paying the traditional tipped crew goes back to at least the early 1900's and was continued by Samuel Cunard who was born in Canada and immigrated to England.

 

In fact in the 1910-30 there was a movement in the US to do away with tipping-which obviously failed.

 

Because of the fare structure now the remuneration for the traditionally tipped crew is NOT included in the fare. Generally those cruise lines that do include it charge more than the difference between the cost of tipping non tipping(Azamara announced a 25% increase and included the "basic" tipping and some other items-none of which when added together could justify a 25% increase-but I don't know if the full increase has held this is an example I realize that Princess is not Azamara or Seaborn or other of the luxury lines where in general you pay a premium to get the base tip included-do you really think that people no longer tip on these lines).

 

Whether its in the fare or the expected tip, its you are paying it anyway. I really don't see why you may want to pay more to have it included in the fare. It will cost you more to get the same amount to the crew if it was collected in the fare.

 

On most cruise lines when you remove the auto -tip all or most of the cash tip is put back into the pool anyway so in fact you make it more difficult for those who you want to reward. The best way to reward these people is to either write a note to their supervisors explaining how they went over and above or giving them a little extra(at your discretion of course).

The auto tip takes care of what the employees were required to do anyway( tipping out). The rooms stewards traditionally tipped out the laundry room supply room staff and asst head housekeeper(the name for this varies among cruise lines); and the waiters tipped out the bus boys, dishwashers, line cooks and asst head waiter/maitre d(also varies by cruise line).

 

Do the employees just pocket the cash? mostly no. If the auto-tip is removed and they don't turn it in(BTW I have been told by some staff they sometimes convert extra tips left by some which they don't have to turn in at all to pay for the cheapos/stiffers because they ARE marked down when people keep taking the auto-tip off and leave nothing or less than the suggested amount-rightfully or wrongfully its held against them). The employees live in close quarters 3-4 in a room and they don't want large amounts of cash lying around either. The employees know pretty quickly who are the slackers and pocketers and since the supervisor is one of the people being stiffed by the employees they get a. fired b. non renewed or c the worst assignments....and also have been known to be visited by their own countries of origin mafia on board.

Ships are clearly a different culture with somewhat different rules. The tipping culture is a tradition on board. I know some people dis like being told when in Rome....but you aren't in Kansas either.

 

If you don't like the auto-tip you are of course free to chose another cruise line that includes it but if you like Princess's product and the service you really SHOULD follow the tradition.

 

There is also not one iota of evidence that the entire auto tip doesn't make it to the traditionally tipped and tipped out crew. . Cruise employees sue cruise lines all the time and there is NOT one report of any crew member that the entire amount doesn't eventually get to them and not one reported lawsuit...yet(I monitor a number of cruise lawyers reports who would report any such lawsuit)

 

 

Nor do I say leave it on if there are service related problems. Feel free to both complain and remove it. But most complaints have NOTHING to do with service(see the comment above about not leaving it for their child because they don't think its right)

 

 

Now them is the facts. If you would like to discuss the facts please do but just like you may complain when someone on formal night wears shorts, traditions should be obeyed.

 

Two more points. Although the cruise lines don't pay US income taxes on every cruise sold through a US TA or to a person using a US address there is a small(1/2 of 1%) tax on the cruise fare-its in the fare. Although small its substantial and the cruise lines don't like it. In fact its been subject of a law suit that has been up to the US Supreme Court at least a couple of times on how its calculated.

 

and those that encourage employees to steal by not reporting the cash should look at their own morality. I am not naive and know that not every cash tip is reported but the vast majority is. But the crew doesn't want large amounts of cash in their rooms with 3-4 there either for the same reason you don't. Its also not easy to transport large amounts of cash. In many countries even relatively small amounts of cash are subject to seizure. Its easier to let the cruise line transfer it back home for them and cheaper too...

[smeyer418]

and lastly, tipping itself has relatively little to do with the service you receive, it has more to do with training, supervision and the individual's employees own personal ethos. So you can receive great service at a McDonald's and poor service in another-neither of which are working for tips.

[beachchick]

I totally understand where you're coming from regarding your 13-year old. You're probably thinking because he's a child, he's obviously not eating a 5-course meal in the MDR like most adults do so therefore, why the need to tip the same right? I remember when we were on Celebrity, there was a lower tip given to anyone who had a child who was 11 or younger in there cabin - however, back then, you basically filled out a sheet that allocated tips to certain personnel (i.e., waiter, assistant waiter, cabin steward, etc.). We also had more flexibility being that he was the 3rd person in the room so we could allocate more to a certain person and give less to another (only if we felt the service wasn't as good) but obviously nowadays, everything is automated. My mom didn't want to do auto tipping too one time and just wanted to give cash to those who she felt were deserving but as we all know, they will have to turn in that cash and yes, they do know who takes off their tips. We leave it as is since we like the credit card points anyway but since they've raised the daily rate, we rarely tip anything extra - we feel for what we're paying, it's adequate and if we want to give a little extra in cash, we will do so for exceptional service.

 

If he's like most 13 year old growing boys, he'll probably eat twice as much as many of the adults do. It's possible he will snack at the buffet or room service and then still have a 5 course dinner with multiple selections per course if he wants to try many different things, making for more work for the waitstaff. So the logic that a 13 year old is somehow less work makes no sense at all.

 

beachchick

[bloomcruisers]

I totally understand where you're coming from regarding your 13-year old. You're probably thinking because he's a child, he's obviously not eating a 5-course meal in the MDR like most adults do so therefore, why the need to tip the same right? I remember when we were on Celebrity, there was a lower tip given to anyone who had a child who was 11 or younger in there cabin - however, back then, you basically filled out a sheet that allocated tips to certain personnel (i.e., waiter, assistant waiter, cabin steward, etc.). We also had more flexibility being that he was the 3rd person in the room so we could allocate more to a certain person and give less to another (only if we felt the service wasn't as good) but obviously nowadays, everything is automated.

 

I also wish the cruiselines would have some reasonable discounted graduated rate scale for children, especially those that are sharing a cabin as 3rd or 4th passengers.

 

I know that others argue that even children are dirtying towels and such; but how much extra work is it to throw another towel in the laundry and make up 1 more bed? There is still only 1 carpet to vacuum, 1 shower to clean, 1 sink, 1 toilet, etc. And as far as extra mess in the cabin, when we sailed with our young children in the room it was a rule that everything was kept in its place. With 4 people needing to move about, clutter was a no no. So our room probably took less time to clean up than many I've peeked at with only 2 occupants who dropped things all over. The cruiselines themselves charge significantly less in fares for 3rd and 4th people for a reason and should account for the difference in the DSC also. Now, if the children are the 1st or 2nd passenger in the cabin, that is different. The cabin portion of the total DSC should reflect that.

 

And I suggested a graduated scale because of the dining difference. Infants, toddlers, and younger children eat little in the way of food. A plate of chicken fingers and fries followed by ice cream is a lot easier to prepare and serve than a 4 or 5 course meal of which people have high culinary expectations. If the DSC scale was based on cost of a kids menu meal vs the cost of a full course adult meal as is done in land based restaurants, the kids' DSC would have to be significantly less. And again, before people get on and start complaining about all the mess kids make while eating, I would say I've seen enough wine and water glasses knocked over by adults that I would not say kids have a lock on requiring extra cleanup at the table. Older kids and teenagers could be assessed a bit more since they, on average, can eat more like an adult.

 

I think that if the lines made some reasonable changes for children's charges, many people would feel less inclined to remove the DSC completely; and the staff would end up with the same amount of money and happier cruisers who did not feel they were being gouged.

 

And, no I have never removed charges! When we took our kids on their first cruise, they were old enough to sign themselves in and out of the kids' club. They would eat their 1 course kids meal and head back to the kids' club on their own because the activities and the friends they met there were way more fun than sitting through a long grown-up dinner. This was before I discovered cruise critic. I paid the suggested tips for everyone at the time but now, in hindsight, realize that I should have tipped the kids' club staff also because they really made the week a great experience for the girls. At the time, I considered them to be part of the activities staff and they were not listed in those to be tipped.

[smeyer418]

I also wish the cruiselines would have some reasonable discounted graduated rate scale for children, especially those that are sharing a cabin as 3rd or 4th passengers.

 

I know that others argue that even children are dirtying towels and such; but how much extra work is it to throw another towel in the laundry and make up 1 more bed? There is still only 1 carpet to vacuum, 1 shower to clean, 1 sink, 1 toilet, etc. And as far as extra mess in the cabin, when we sailed with our young children in the room it was a rule that everything was kept in its place. With 4 people needing to move about, clutter was a no no. So our room probably took less time to clean up than many I've peeked at with only 2 occupants who dropped things all over. The cruiselines themselves charge significantly less in fares for 3rd and 4th people for a reason and should account for the difference in the DSC also. Now, if the children are the 1st or 2nd passenger in the cabin, that is different. The cabin portion of the total DSC should reflect that.

 

And I suggested a graduated scale because of the dining difference. Infants, toddlers, and younger children eat little in the way of food. A plate of chicken fingers and fries followed by ice cream is a lot easier to prepare and serve than a 4 or 5 course meal of which people have high culinary expectations. If the DSC scale was based on cost of a kids menu meal vs the cost of a full course adult meal as is done in land based restaurants, the kids' DSC would have to be significantly less. And again, before people get on and start complaining about all the mess kids make while eating, I would say I've seen enough wine and water glasses knocked over by adults that I would not say kids have a lock on requiring extra cleanup at the table. Older kids and teenagers could be assessed a bit more since they, on average, can eat more like an adult.

 

I think that if the lines made some reasonable changes for children's charges, many people would feel less inclined to remove the DSC completely; and the staff would end up with the same amount of money and happier cruisers who did not feel they were being gouged.

 

And, no I have never removed charges! When we took our kids on their first cruise, they were old enough to sign themselves in and out of the kids' club. They would eat their 1 course kids meal and head back to the kids' club on their own because the activities and the friends they met there were way more fun than sitting through a long grown-up dinner. This was before I discovered cruise critic. I paid the suggested tips for everyone at the time but now, in hindsight, realize that I should have tipped the kids' club staff also because they really made the week a great experience for the girls. At the time, I considered them to be part of the activities staff and they were not listed in those to be tipped.

 

most cruise lines charge less for the third and fourth in the room already...some vary greatly...

 

NCL occasionally runs kids sail free(as 3 or more in the room) or at even at reduced rates and charge less for the kids in the pay restaurants as well...