opting out of auto tipping?

[smeyer418]

Your absolutely right! This is my first cruise and I am 60 years young! :D

 

I did a little research and you are correct. The fee is NOT that easy to waive.

 

Although I understand their policy and will go with it, it is somewhat irksome. They should just raise their cost for their cruises, raise the salaries of their crew, and encourage passengers to tip.

 

Anyway, my sympathies are with the crew. I understand how hard back-of-the-house can be.

you like paying more for the same thing?

 

Those that say it should be in the fare's logic eludes me. There is no intellectual difference between an auto-tip and having it included in the fare...except that logic and economic facts would indicate that if its in the fare it would cost YOU more(overhead, profit, taxes, possibly commission would also dictate that to get the same 1 dollar, pound, euro to the ship from the home office would cost you more) and as I pointed out those cruise lines that include it generally charge much more for the privilege-not always of course. If it was included in the fare how would you deal with really poor service? get some of the fare back?

[swsfrail]

Your absolutely right! This is my first cruise and I am 60 years young! :D

 

I did a little research and you are correct. The fee is NOT that easy to waive.

 

Although I understand their policy and will go with it, it is somewhat irksome. They should just raise their cost for their cruises, raise the salaries of their crew, and encourage passengers to tip.

 

Anyway, my sympathies are with the crew. I understand how hard back-of-the-house can be.

 

I always find it amusing when someone who has never been on a cruise comes on these boards and proceeds to tell us how the cruise lines should be running their business, who even with many years of experience of transporting millions of passengers, apparently don't yet know the best way to run that business.

 

Ah, I remember when I was so naive and knew everything. However, to my parent's dismay, I was in my teens then, not 60 years old like the poster - an age, by the way, that I haven't seen for many years :D

[helpthejuggler]

.

Their oh, so lofty moral compass tells them that an employer should pay a living wage and that it's not their responsibility to make up that wage. While that's a fine ideal, it's not how it works in the real world.

 

What you an the rest of AMERICA fail to see is that some airline pilots here in the GOOD OLE, USA get paid FAR LESS than that.

 

I don't want to hear anything about poor Mexico.

 

I am an airline captain, my first year at my passenger airline, I made $17,322 (2007).

 

So do we absolve these airlines of the responsibility for paying aircrew their worth.

 

Sure, all blames lies with all those cheapskate passengers who don't tip the pilot, officers and cabin crew in the real world.

 

.

Bottom line, their morals are really not that high, they're just cheap. Otherwise, they'd be sailing on one of the more costly lines where tipping is unnecessary and people are paid according to the cheapskate's lofty moral code.

 

Apples/Oranges.

 

The difference is far more than just a $12 pd service fee. The is no market for a cruise line without tips. It is available through pre-pay for exactly that cost on a mass market line.

[navybankerteacher]

So do we absolve these airlines of the responsibility for paying aircrew their worth.

 

Sure, all blames lies with all those cheapskate passengers who don't tip the pilot, officers and cabin crew in the real world.

 

 

 

Apples/Oranges.

 

The difference is far more than just a $12 pd service fee. The is no market for a cruise line without tips. It is available through pre-pay for exactly that cost on a mass market line.

 

The best way to determine "worth" is to look at what someone is willing to pay for it -- and what someone is willing to receive for it.

 

If an employer "A" offers X dollars for to perfoemployee "B" to perform a described job, and employee "B" thinks it appropriate, what qualifies bystander "C" to condemn the transaction?

[helpthejuggler]

The best way to determine "worth" is to look at what someone is willing to pay for it -- and what someone is willing to receive for it.

 

If an employer "A" offers X dollars for to perfoemployee "B" to perform a described job, and employee "B" thinks it appropriate, what qualifies bystander "C" to condemn the transaction?

 

You have convinced me.

 

The employer pays what they believe the job is worth to them. The customer pays what the product is worth to them.

 

So passenger A decides that the service charge is more than they believe it is worth to them, passenger B is not qualified to condemn them.

[Don P]

I don't know about the rest of you reading this thread but I hope and pray I'm not seated at dinner between these two people trying to prove their respective points concerning the subject of auto-tipping. They are so concerned with trying to prove their respective points that I envision they would miss out on the sights and sounds of the cruise. Lighten up guys......remember why you booked the cruise. It should have had nothing to do with the subject of tipping. Get a life!

 

you like paying more for the same thing?

 

Those that say it should be in the fare's logic eludes me. There is no intellectual difference between an auto-tip and having it included in the fare...except that logic and economic facts would indicate that if its in the fare it would cost YOU more(overhead, profit, taxes, possibly commission would also dictate that to get the same 1 dollar, pound, euro to the ship from the home office would cost you more) and as I pointed out those cruise lines that include it generally charge much more for the privilege-not always of course. If it was included in the fare how would you deal with really poor service? get some of the fare back?

[IndyDenise]

Cruises that start and end in Europe are not American cruises and are not booked through an American Company. My cruise contract states quite clearly that I am booked through, and my contract is with, Princess UK.

 

-------------------------------------

 

Maybe for you..but my HAL cruise from Italy is booked from HAL US.

 

I ( think ) European/Aussie cruisers that go on an American line leaving from Europe have to book through a seperate site than the US ones..and you (OFTEN ) do pay A LOT more than Americans for the same cruise.

 

Isn't the reason your strong consumer vaca laws?

[HppyCamper]

I have one thing to say before leaving this ridiculous thread.

 

First, to those of you that are SO involved in this argument that you are calling people names, saying people are naive or belittling them because they have not cruised before.

 

I HOPE TO GOD, YOU ARE NOT ON MY CRUISE!

 

IMHO anyone who resorts to such tactics instead of trying to rationally discuss the subject are fools. I am way to old to consort with fools.

[smeyer418]

I don't know about the rest of you reading this thread but I hope and pray I'm not seated at dinner between these two people trying to prove their respective points concerning the subject of auto-tipping. They are so concerned with trying to prove their respective points that I envision they would miss out on the sights and sounds of the cruise. Lighten up guys......remember why you booked the cruise. It should have had nothing to do with the subject of tipping. Get a life!

 

I didn't start this thread. In fact I stayed out of for a long time. I just got off a 10 day cruise and tipping came up zero times. You are entitled to your opinion although I am not sure what it is. Do you like paying more for the same thing?

Politics, sex and religion shouldn't be discussed either...that leaves the weather.

How about them Mets?

[Don P]

It would require way more effort than it deserves to get into a discussion on the pros and cons of auto-tipping. I was amused by the comments and I stand by my response. Put me at a different table.

 

I didn't start this thread. In fact I stayed out of for a long time. I just got off a 10 day cruise and tipping came up zero times. You are entitled to your opinion although I am not sure what it is. Do you like paying more for the same thing?

Politics, sex and religion shouldn't be discussed either...that leaves the weather.

How about them Mets?

[elvisdaredevil]

We just got back from cruising to Hawaii. We opted out and paid who we wanted and the amount. The man who cleaned our room we gave a big tip to and the person who served us the whole cruise was tipped well.

[Texas Tillie]

We just got back from cruising to Hawaii. We opted out and paid who we wanted and the amount. The man who cleaned our room we gave a big tip to and the person who served us the whole cruise was tipped well.

 

And both were required to turn the entire amount into the pool to share with those who weren't covered when you removed the service charge. What "favor" did you do for the ones you did "tip"?

[navybankerteacher]

We just got back from cruising to Hawaii. We opted out and paid who we wanted and the amount. The man who cleaned our room we gave a big tip to and the person who served us the whole cruise was tipped well.

 

Just curious:

 

A) Was the dollar amount of the tips you gave the less/the same/more than what the auto-tip/service charge would have been? (ie: did you save money, break even, or pay more?)

 

B) Are you sure that you were not advised at the time you "opted out" that the staff members you planned to tip in cash would have to turn in those tips?

[Cru1s1ng2009]

There is a difference between opting out of auto tip and removing them when you get on board, right?

• Opting out means you tip at the end in the envelopes just like everyone else, right? (well unless you are a jerk and stiff them)No one, excpet my CC thinks your being cheap?
  
• Removing them when on board means you just added $300 or so to your OBC, and are a jerk. Correct?
  

I am asking this because I have sometimes not done the auto tip. How is it possible that auto tip doesnt go into a pool but cash does? this seems to defy logic. Cash goes in your pocket and electronic payment goes to the pool and is documented as wages. Someone WHO TRUELY KNOWS, please explain the process.

 

 

The times I did do auto tip, I added to it since we get such good service.

 

I dont want my stateroom attendant or my waiter to think I am going to stiff him but I am already paid off and my documents are done, is it too late? I also would like to add that as someone who has ALWAYS relyed on tips for my livelyhood, i have always tipped for everyone in my family, always over the recommended amount, and always tip extra on the drinks, tip for the spa, tip on the private islands. Everywhere and with pleasure!!! I am merely asking because I have only heard crew members complain about the ones who pay for the auto and have it removed.

 

PS. Oh, and I love a hot thread about tipping, hogs, and diapers!!!!!

[smeyer418]

And both were required to turn the entire amount into the pool to share with those who weren't covered when you removed the service charge. What "favor" did you do for the ones you did "tip"?

not if it was the NCL Pride of America. There are exceptions to every rule. The crew on the NCL Pride of America, the only large US flagged ship, are paid US minimum wage and overtime. By Hawaiian law they cannot be forced to share the tip with any one.....

 

BTW we were in general talking about foreign flagged vessels...Not the one of NCL America ship...

[njhorseman]

not if it was the NCL Pride of America. There are exceptions to every rule. The crew on the NCL Pride of America, the only large US flagged ship, are paid US minimum wage and overtime. By Hawaiian law they cannot be forced to share the tip with any one.....

 

BTW we were in general talking about foreign flagged vessels...Not the one of NCL America ship...

 

I'm not a lawyer, but when I Googled "tip pooling in Hawaii" I saw multiple results that would indicate to me that tip pooling...even involuntary tip pooling.. is legal in Hawaii.

 

For example, paragraph 12-20-11 here the first sentence mentions tip splitting: http://hawaii.gov/labor/legal/rule/wsd/12-20.pdf

 

and on page 10 of this from the Hawaii Restaurant, involuntary tip pools are specifically mentioned:http://restauranthi.com/files/Tipped-Employees3-10-101.pdf

 

By the way, NCL's FAQs and guest ticket contract no longer contains the tortured language on the service charge that they once did...and no separate wording is used that would indicate NCLA employees are treated differently that NCL employees. NCL and NCLA are both identically defined as the Carrier in paragraph 1 of the contract.

 

 

© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge , which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employeesaccording to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

[teddybarehead]

This may be slightly off topic, but... i usually like to tip my steward an extra 20 at the beginning of my cruise (as well as the auto tip). Will they not be allowed to keep the 20 i gave them?

[njhorseman]

This may be slightly off topic, but... i usually like to tip my steward an extra 20 at the beginning of my cruise (as well as the auto tip). Will they not be allowed to keep the 20 i gave them?

 

Yes...you've paid your auto tip so they should be able to keep any additional tip you give them.

[smeyer418]

This may be slightly off topic, but... i usually like to tip my steward an extra 20 at the beginning of my cruise (as well as the auto tip). Will they not be allowed to keep the 20 i gave them?

In general they can keep it as long as the auto-tip/dsc is left on.

 

I have seen a lawsuit in Hawaii on required tipping out. It was a starbucks lawsuit and it had to do with including the supervisors...which isn't allowed...

[njhorseman]

In general they can keep it as long as the auto-tip/dsc is left on.

 

I have seen a lawsuit in Hawaii on required tipping out. It was a starbucks lawsuit and it had to do with including the supervisors...which isn't allowed...

 

Tipping out to supervisors is a whole different kettle of fish.

[greatam]

I'm not a lawyer, but when I Googled "tip pooling in Hawaii" I saw multiple results that would indicate to me that tip pooling...even involuntary tip pooling.. is legal in Hawaii.

 

For example, paragraph 12-20-11 here the first sentence mentions tip splitting: http://hawaii.gov/labor/legal/rule/wsd/12-20.pdf

 

and on page 10 of this from the Hawaii Restaurant, involuntary tip pools are specifically mentioned:http://restauranthi.com/files/Tipped-Employees3-10-101.pdf

 

By the way, NCL's FAQs and guest ticket contract no longer contains the tortured language on the service charge that they once did...and no separate wording is used that would indicate NCLA employees are treated differently that NCL employees. NCL and NCLA are both identically defined as the Carrier in paragraph 1 of the contract.

 

 

© Service Charges: Certain members of Carrier’s crew are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that are funded in part by the service charge paid by each Guest. The charge , which is automatically added to your onboard account and subject to adjustment at your discretion, is intended to reward service provided in all departments and job categories and is distributed to employeesaccording to Carrier's evaluation of job performance. A portion of the service charge collected by Carrier is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs.

 

Doesn't NCL designate the charge as service charge and it is MANDATORY?? NO opting out.

 

I really don't know but someone who sails NCL posted that a page or two ago. So the cruise line uses the service charge to pay a STATED SALARY (minimum wage or above) to the NCLA employees and base salary + shared tip pool to non US flagged ships.

 

And what you posted about tipping in Hawaii has to do with employees who are working in the US under US rules. LOTS of restaurants in the US pay very small wages ($2-3 per hour), then REQUIRE the employees to verify their tips at the end of each shift, which basically makes up the state minimum wage (which is paid out as salary and is subject to FICA and federal/state taxes). Anything OVER the state minimum wage goes in the employees pocket to do with as they see fit (claim it or not).

 

We owned a bar in Iowa (1982). It was ALWAYS a problem getting everyone to turn in a REAL tip report at the end of the shift. There were times when I KNEW the server made more than they reported but how was I to prove it? And there were times when we had to dig in our pocket to pay the minimum wage (plus FICA and work comp) when I KNEW some of the waitresses walked out of that bar with $300 in cash tips for the week. But again, how was I to prove it?

[njhorseman]

Doesn't NCL designate the charge as service charge and it is MANDATORY?? NO opting out.

 

I really don't know but someone who sails NCL posted that a page or two ago. So the cruise line uses the service charge to pay a STATED SALARY (minimum wage or above) to the NCLA employees and base salary + shared tip pool to non US flagged ships.

 

And what you posted about tipping in Hawaii has to do with employees who are working in the US under US rules. LOTS of restaurants in the US pay very small wages ($2-3 per hour), then REQUIRE the employees to verify their tips at the end of each shift, which basically makes up the state minimum wage (which is paid out as salary and is subject to FICA and federal/state taxes). Anything OVER the state minimum wage goes in the employees pocket to do with as they see fit (claim it or not).

 

We owned a bar in Iowa (1982). It was ALWAYS a problem getting everyone to turn in a REAL tip report at the end of the shift. There were times when I KNEW the server made more than they reported but how was I to prove it? And there were times when we had to dig in our pocket to pay the minimum wage (plus FICA and work comp) when I KNEW some of the waitresses walked out of that bar with $300 in cash tips for the week. But again, how was I to prove it?

 

No...the NCL service charge is discretionary, just as the contract says, and can be adjusted or even removed altogether by the passenger.

 

NCLA employees are working in the US and are subject to all US and Hawaii labor laws. The ship (Pride of America) is US flagged and remains in US waters during its cruise.

 

Tip pooling and tipping out are common and quite legal practices in many if not most states.

[njhorseman]

In general they can keep it as long as the auto-tip/dsc is left on.

 

I have seen a lawsuit in Hawaii on required tipping out. It was a starbucks lawsuit and it had to do with including the supervisors...which isn't allowed...

 

FYI, in 2010 the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, which includes Hawaii, ruled in Cumbie v. Woody Woo, Inc. that tip pooling is legal:

 

http://www.hecouncil.org/node/3471

 

http://www.hecouncil.org/files/2010/20100302_1.pdf

[mistymountainhop]

Also my son who is 13 is travelling with me, I do not agree to the cruise liner charging a 13 yr old a daily fee for service (at the end of the day he's only a child) but hey that's just my opinion. Bearing in mind this my first ever cruise and I just want to enjoy it and not be stiffed myself :rolleyes:

 

Each guest pays via auto-tipping (including children) because they are served just as any adult would be. Whether that be in the dining rooms, or the room steward cleaning up after him. It may seem like a lot, but all of the staff on these ships works extremely hard and always earns their tips, and then some. I would recommend leaving the auto-tipping alone and bring extra cash to tip those who go over and above a little extra. You won't be sorry.

[Leafpeeper]

We just got back from cruising to Hawaii. We opted out and paid who we wanted and the amount. The man who cleaned our room we gave a big tip to and the person who served us the whole cruise was tipped well.

 

We have reduced tips when we didn't get service and tipped those who gave us service. Some people think you can't reduce your tips if they are automatic or prepaid, but you can. Just go to the purser's desk and tell them you want tips refunded. Our bartenders, cabin stewards and food servers liked the cash.