Fire on Carnival Triumph. No engines, running on emergency generators.

[jonbgd]

Yes he should have stayed away from his basketball games. It shows a lack of compassion - his media advisors (and of course he has them) should have stepped up and told him to withdraw from the public eye until those people were home safely. I didn't follow anything on his activities but if he was out and about at leisure events then he's as bad as everything I've heard about and worse.

 

While it was insensitive and I agree with you

it is a business that he runs more than the Carnival Corp.

 

Since your from Dallas do you think Mark Cuban would miss a game if he had a company in this situation

[sjn911]

This.

 

Here is where I think CC can help and one of my takeaways from this incident.

 

Disclaimer: NOT saying there is proof that the Triumph's past mechanical problems caused this incident.

 

A ship (on any cruise line) that has repeated problems - e.g. plumbing issues, propulsion problems, or is sailing down an engine - should be called out on CC as such to people considering booking that ship. It's relevant information. If I have a choice of ship A or ship B, and ship A is sailing with only 2 out of 3 engines, I'd rather choose ship B. And calling attention to those problems doesn't make you a hater - it's fulfilling one of CC's purposes of making sure that members aren't surprised about the state of the ship.

 

Disclaimer: NOT saying there is proof that the Triumph's past mechanical problems caused this incident.

,

 

Agreed...just like good TA'a are honest with their clients and say.."this line has had several mishaps and for the time being we suggest waiting until more is taken care of on that line..they will be back better later, we see things go in cycles etc."

 

I do not think that is wrong or bashing a line..it is giving people the truth and maybe putting some awareness in the cruise companies of the good people here who do not want to bash or be line exclusive..just be good ambassadors, vacation choosers and advertisement for what goes right and what is currently going right and better at each budget level...Sarah

[declansdad]

Yes he should have stayed away from his basketball games. It shows a lack of compassion - his media advisors (and of course he has them) should have stepped up and told him to withdraw from the public eye until those people were home safely. I didn't follow anything on his activities but if he was out and about at leisure events then he's as bad as everything I've heard about and worse.

 

I am waiting with baited breath to hear how Carnival rewards that crew - they deserve something for how they stepped up. Very proud of all the passengers that immediately praised them - good for you!

 

 

I don't agree, there is nothing that would have required his attention 24 hours a day. Some people obviously think it was wrong for him to do it but they would probably be the same people complaining if he did withdraw from public view.

 

I agree completely with you about the crew.

[airmj2123]

I thought people making assumptions about this would stop once the ship returned, apparently I was wrong. :(

 

I'm gonna get this out of the way and hopefully all who post will read and then not write something speculating about these things:

 

1) Triumph had an engine room fire that disabled it. We do not know if the fire was related to previous engine issues (an investigation will be done and several US agencies will have some involvement).

2) Removing passengers from the ship while in open waters is physically possible but is dangerous. Since the vessel was in no danger of sinking, there was no reason to remove passengers. (CG said it shouldn't be done)

3) Mobile was selected over the following closest ports: NOLA, Tampa, Galveston, and Progreso... Currents moved the ship about 90 miles after it was disabled. The current made Progreso difficult to reach. Triumph can't get under the bridge in Tampa. NOLA is too far up the river for a disabled ship. Galveston was against some of the currents and further than Mobile... (The dry dock in Mobile was likely a factor, but not the deciding one)

4) The crew was amazing.

5) The passengers on board did their best to help each other in a difficult situation.

6) It is impossible to know what compensation is fair. We weren't there and, therefore, have no ability to tell what is fair.

7) CCL will be fine after this disaster.

8) The ship was late arriving yesterday because both tugboats had problems (1 with prop and 1 with toe rope).

 

Hopefully that ends some of the speculation.

[EZ4]

If Carnival had a lot of input in designing the cruise terminal, why did they pull out of there, exactly? They designed a cruise terminal that makes it extremely difficult to turn their large ships around...?

 

They were there for eight years. I guess they liked it for a while. As for why they left, I don't believe anything that Carnival or the city said. I think they just had a falling out about something. Probably money.

[alphakitty]

I'm gonna get this out of the way and hopefully all who post will read and then not write something speculating about these things:

 

1) Triumph had an engine room fire that disabled it. We do not know if the fire was related to previous engine issues (an investigation will be done and several US agencies will have some involvement).

2) Removing passengers from the ship while in open waters is physically possible but is dangerous. Since the vessel was in no danger of sinking, there was no reason to remove passengers. (CG said it shouldn't be done)

3) Mobile was selected over the following closest ports: NOLA, Tampa, Galveston, and Progreso... Currents moved the ship about 90 miles after it was disabled. The current made Progreso difficult to reach. Triumph can't get under the bridge in Tampa. NOLA is too far up the river for a disabled ship. Galveston was against some of the currents and further than Mobile... (The dry dock in Mobile was likely a factor, but not the deciding one)

4) The crew was amazing.

5) The passengers on board did their best to help each other in a difficult situation.

6) It is impossible to know what compensation is fair. We weren't there and, therefore, have no ability to tell what is fair.

7) CCL will be fine after this disaster.

8) The ship was late arriving yesterday because both tugboats had problems (1 with prop and 1 with toe rope).

 

Hopefully that ends some of the speculation.

 

This might help too.....

"The earlier incident (with Triumph), was an electrical issue with one of the ship's alternators, said Carnival spokesman Vance Gulliksen.

"Repairs were conducted by the alternator supplier and were fully completed on Feb. 2," he said in an email. "Comprehensive testing of the repaired alternator was conducted and certified successful by both the alternator supplier as well as a third-party verification organization.

"There is no evidence at this time of any relationship between this previous issue and the fire that occurred on Feb. 10," he said."

 

 

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harsh-conditions-get-stranded-cruise-passengers-4275429.php

[airmj2123]

This might help too.....

"The earlier incident (with Triumph), was an electrical issue with one of the ship's alternators, said Carnival spokesman Vance Gulliksen.

"Repairs were conducted by the alternator supplier and were fully completed on Feb. 2," he said in an email. "Comprehensive testing of the repaired alternator was conducted and certified successful by both the alternator supplier as well as a third-party verification organization.

"There is no evidence at this time of any relationship between this previous issue and the fire that occurred on Feb. 10," he said."

 

 

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harsh-conditions-get-stranded-cruise-passengers-4275429.php

 

I was gonna add that but I didn't want to get flamed for saying that they were two separate issues.

[dwjoe]

New CC news article

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5209

 

Vance Gulliksen, a Carnival Cruise Lines spokesman, told Cruise Critic he did not know how many buses or passengers went to each destination. Gulliksen said he also didn't know whether the company's president and CEO had traveled to New Orleans with the passengers.

 

Crew members, meanwhile, are resting in Mobile hotels. All ship's crew will receive their "full and normal compensation" for this sailing, Gulliksen said.

 

More terrible PR... CCL spokesman not knowing how many pax went where, meh, but not knowing if the CEO went with them...:confused:

 

At least they're not shorting the crew but they should be paying out bonuses and playing up the amazing job they did. The crew really saved the day for Carnival. And there are so many positive stories about the crew that deserve to be told, and it's sad that it probably won't be told by the media, nor CCL. I have more faith in the pax though. Give it a few days and I am sure we will hear story after story on Cruise Critic of amazing things that the crew did.

[alphakitty]

I was gonna add that but I didn't want to get flamed for saying that they were two separate issues.

 

LOL I have thick skin. :p

[wolfganghowell]

your from Dallas do you think Mark Cuban would miss a game if he had a company in this situation

 

Jon, great point on Cuban and while I don't know him personally, I know people that do. Cuban is pretty brash but he's media savvy. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Cuban would have been in Mobile personally carrying off luggage. Granted, he would have gone on his corporate jet and stayed in the best hotel suite in town but still... He would have used the media to do damage control. Again, I don't know what if anything Arison did this week. But I certainly didn't see him do anything visible to improve his company's image. And if he did go to basketball games this week, I stand by my thought that it was insensitive to do so.

[sjn911]

I am so proud of the crew. This should help the company do more for them and fix the moral and service decline being reported and that i experienced once. Get enough on board to serve the crowd again.

 

I hope for this the value of the crew is re-recognized...clear info gets out about what they do and do not receive so we can be more aware in adding to tips and maybe a base salary gets a bit better..I'd gladly pay 100 more a cruise for a more happy staff for the fun ships...Sarah

 

I know how humiliating it feels just to give a stool sample to the health department..it is just not comfortable but was deeply needed to study issue and what was going on and in what food...those people eased discomfort and did the best they could in a humiliating mess..one just knows by humor of enough people..how they eased that..like a good doctor eases your dignity issues...Sarah

[airmj2123]

Jon, great point on Cuban and while I don't know him personally, I know people that do. Cuban is pretty brash but he's media savvy. I'm going to go out on a limb and say Cuban would have been in Mobile personally carrying off luggage. Granted, he would have gone on his corporate jet and stayed in the best hotel suite in town but still... He would have used the media to do damage control. Again, I don't know what if anything Arison did this week. But I certainly didn't see him do anything visible to improve his company's image. And if he did go to basketball games this week, I stand by my thought that it was insensitive to do so.

 

He would have gone to the game and used it to as a platform to apologize and announce that after the game, he would be on a jet and personally help everyone off the ship. THIS POST is 100% speculation.

[texsun49]

You can not put a dollar figure on everything that was missed out because of this delayed return. That being said, $500 does seem very low. And the free cruise offer, will that include all travel costs to the port and back, tips, etc. That free trip may not be so "free" and not to mention another revenue generator for Carnival to get money out of your pocket for any additional activities on the ship. Not only have some people incurred direct expenses because of this, but indirect ones as well. they could have had other plans that they paid out deposits for and lost those as well. Imagine if someone had an elaborate party planned for a life event and 1000s of dollars already spent.

 

And how much value do you place on missing special moments in your family's life because of this fiasco?

 

Cue the Carnival apologists....

 

LOL... you make an assertation which begs rebuttal, and then set up those that might find your comments objectionable as apologists...what is the opposite of apologist?

[tozer]

I'm gonna get this out of the way and hopefully all who post will read and then not write something speculating about these things:

 

3) Mobile was selected over the following closest ports: NOLA, Tampa, Galveston, and Progreso... Currents moved the ship about 90 miles after it was disabled. The current made Progreso difficult to reach. Triumph can't get under the bridge in Tampa. NOLA is too far up the river for a disabled ship. Galveston was against some of the currents and further than Mobile... (The dry dock in Mobile was likely a factor, but not the deciding one

 

And you are speculating about why they chose Mobile. There may have been high level discussions because of additional costs associated with docking in Progresso. It is not beyond a reasonable logical conclusion that Carnival chose Mobile for factors just beyond the physical distance from the available ports. You are taking what Carnival says at face value.

 

Also, how long did it take for the ship to drift 90 miles? And do we know it was 90 miles? why couldnt tug boats reach the ship in the time it took the ship to drift 90 miles?

 

Do you think there was some high level discussions going on that took time? Do you think that may have delayed the action that was taken?

 

Again, you are speculating as others are.

[caribill]

Quote on a local TV station from a passenger who arrived on a bus in Galveston this morning:

 

"They sent a bathtub toy to pull our giant ship."

[broberts]

Yes he should have stayed away from his basketball games. It shows a lack of compassion - his media advisors (and of course he has them) should have stepped up and told him to withdraw from the public eye until those people were home safely. I didn't follow anything on his activities but if he was out and about at leisure events then he's as bad as everything I've heard about and worse.

 

Would the fact that he owns one of the teams that was playing make a difference in this opinion?

[airmj2123]

And you are speculating about why they chose Mobile. There may have been high level discussions because of additional costs associated with docking in Progresso. It is not beyond a reasonable logical conclusion that Carnival chose Mobile for factors just beyond the physical distance from the available ports. You are taking what Carnival says at face value.

 

Also, how long did it take for the ship to drift 90 miles? And do we know it was 90 miles? why couldnt tug boats reach the ship in the time it took the ship to drift 90 miles?

 

Do you think there was some high level discussions going on that took time? Do you think that may have delayed the action that was taken?

 

Again, you are speculating as others are.

 

Here are answers to your questions:

1) I take the CG's word for physical distances. CCL said that it drifted 90 miles, CG said over 70 knots (which is 80 miles) (I wrote about 90 miles)... If a tug has to travel 150+ miles (depending on where the ocean tug came from), it is going to take a decent amount of time... Tugs don't travel fast and it takes time to get a tug ready and depart.

2) Plus I take the CG word for the direction of the current.

3) There were likely high level discussions about where to take it. Basically there were 2 options, Progresso and Mobile. Cost was likely one factor but many other factors came in to play. But, according to the CG, it made the most sense to take the passengers to Mobile.

 

There was no speculation in my previous post. Just the reasons why the other ports were difficult (based on CG reports)

[texsun49]

And you are speculating about why they chose Mobile. There may have been high level discussions because of additional costs associated with docking in Progresso. It is not beyond a reasonable logical conclusion that Carnival chose Mobile for factors just beyond the physical distance from the available ports. You are taking what Carnival says at face value.

 

Also, how long did it take for the ship to drift 90 miles? And do we know it was 90 miles? why couldnt tug boats reach the ship in the time it took the ship to drift 90 miles?

 

Do you think there was some high level discussions going on that took time? Do you think that may have delayed the action that was taken?

 

Again, you are speculating as others are.

 

You pose accusations as questions, that is tatic to attribute guilt without any evidence to support your contention. Do you know the speed tugs can travel? How is going to Mobile more sinister than going to Progresso? How would the logistics of gettting people home from Progresso compare to Mobile?

[SociallyAwkward]

As for the $500 why is that wrong, yes some did loose more than that in pay (maybe, Carnival has not said yes or no to fixing lost wages, they did not answer at all) some did not, so if they should pay more to those that lost more, should those that don't make $500 in 5 days get less? The retired should not get any, the kids should not get any? I think that is a good offer, when they don't know the situation the people are actually in for their pay situation, they could have said when you get home, have your employer send us your lost wages and we will pay you what you missed out on? well that would have been a delay, or they could have said have your employer pay you anyway and bill us, then the employer is out for a delay. and again the kids and retired don't get anything, or the stay at home parents, and college students. If they are going to make up the pay, then are they going to have the crew/staff do the missed homework the kids that did not get back to school on Monday/Tuesday missed out on, and can't make up?

 

As for "following the investigation" it will be gone from the media in a few weeks, and everyone will forget about it,

 

Try finding something from the investigation about the Concordia (not from the media's opinion) it is hard to find at this point, or the Splendor investigation, also hard to find, I just did a search for Carnival Splendor engine fire investigation, and the first report is from December 2010 and Cruise Critic is the provider of a coast guard report, the second is an independent and it is from Nov 2010,

 

my point is unless you are actually involved, or know someone that is, we will never know, and won't be able to find what happened, all we can hope is the people in volved find and fix to prevent or reduce the damage in the future.

 

By the way it sounds like the changes from the Splendor did work (the co2 system worked and put out the fire faster) that did not work on the Splendor.

 

I explained why I felt they should offer more than 500. I understand others may not feel the same way, hence the phrase I have used saying "I think or my opinion" And it may not impact your view of Carnival, but because people have different sensibilities it will impact their view. Both things? Totally ok.

 

And I know how to read things even if the media doesn't report it, hence the reason I said *I* would follow it. Investigations usually release a public report.

[tozer]

This might help too.....

"The earlier incident (with Triumph), was an electrical issue with one of the ship's alternators, said Carnival spokesman Vance Gulliksen.

"Repairs were conducted by the alternator supplier and were fully completed on Feb. 2," he said in an email. "Comprehensive testing of the repaired alternator was conducted and certified successful by both the alternator supplier as well as a third-party verification organization.

"There is no evidence at this time of any relationship between this previous issue and the fire that occurred on Feb. 10," he said."

 

 

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Harsh-conditions-get-stranded-cruise-passengers-4275429.php

 

Do you really think that Carnival would come out and admit any negligence?

 

None so blind that refuse to see....

[wolfganghowell]

No, I know he owns the team. I am talking about doing some PR for the other business he owns. Missing 5 nights of basketball is not the end of the world and showing compassion and empathy for the passengers, crew and their families would have been a master stroke. I'm not bashing Carnival - I think they did a pretty good job. I just think the majority owner had an opportunity to do damage control and he failed.

 

But I don't want to make this about him. It was just an observation. The crew are true heroes and need all the recognition they can get!

[EZ4]

And you are speculating about why they chose Mobile. There may have been high level discussions because of additional costs associated with docking in Progresso. It is not beyond a reasonable logical conclusion that Carnival chose Mobile for factors just beyond the physical distance from the available ports. You are taking what Carnival says at face value.

 

Also, how long did it take for the ship to drift 90 miles? And do we know it was 90 miles? why couldnt tug boats reach the ship in the time it took the ship to drift 90 miles?

 

Do you think there was some high level discussions going on that took time? Do you think that may have delayed the action that was taken?

 

Again, you are speculating as others are.

 

Regardless of what Carnival said in public, I don't think they ever considered anyplace other than Mobile. The ship was closer to Progreso even after it had drifted north and they started towing it. The ship is already in the drydock this morning. Mobile was always going to be the destination.

[dockmaster]

Bingo! Carnival would have fought tooth and nail to go to Mobile all along, because it benefited them to be close to the shipyard that they need. Another thought is the cruise terminal in Mobile, which Carnival had a lot of input in designing. They knew that because the Mobile terminal has an attached parking garage, they could keep the media at bay outside, load the buses with passengers inside the terminal and whisk them away without them even stepping foot outside the terminal. That alone probably kept the media away from 90% of the passengers. The ones that the media had access to were the ones who were being met by family and friends or had opted to make their own arrangements to get home. The media was very annoyed, and were grumbling all day yesterday that they were being kept away from the passengers. I have no doubt that this was a carefully orchestrated plan by Carnival to minimize damaging interviews with the media.

 

No matter where they went in the US, the DHS would have set up the terminal in a secure fashion. It Federal law now. The news media would have been kept back. CNN couldnt get any closer today to film that train going by than they could have last night. Its the law.....

 

My thoughts...

The only people that wanted Triumph to go to Progresso are the "I want carnival to loose money " bunch. A few pax interviewed on CNN even said they were glad to be in Mobile, not some "dusty little town in Mexico".

 

Mobile was closer than Galveston with a easier access to the port. Again, the same folks that wanted Progresso, would choose Galveston over as second choice over Mobile for the same reasons.

 

Mobile actually worked out for EVERYBODY. Except the people that would have liked 1 or 2. Sure the shipyard right across the channel played into the decision, as well it should have. How LUCKY could they be that the closest port wast right next to the shipyard. None of the passengers seemed to care either. I heard not one person say I wish we were in Galveston or Progresso.

 

billd

[cheewiee]

You can not put a dollar figure on everything that was missed out because of this delayed return. That being said, $500 does seem very low. And the free cruise offer, will that include all travel costs to the port and back, tips, etc. That free trip may not be so "free" and not to mention another revenue generator for Carnival to get money out of your pocket for any additional activities on the ship. Not only have some people incurred direct expenses because of this, but indirect ones as well. they could have had other plans that they paid out deposits for and lost those as well. Imagine if someone had an elaborate party planned for a life event and 1000s of dollars already spent.

 

And how much value do you place on missing special moments in your family's life because of this fiasco?

 

Cue the Carnival apologists....

 

So the CNN's version of Lord of the Flies on the Barge of Poo didn't pay out, so now we are trouncing out the very MINOR chance that a very small number of people on this ship JUST might have missed a major life event... Like the wedding of a loved one (I don't know many people who schedule cruises in the days preceding a major life event, or during the week fo rthat matter)

 

So that's what you got?

 

Listen no one doubts that 3,200 people were seriously inconvenenced, had a horrible week, and had what for many was supposed to be an incredible vacation take a disasterous turn... AND while the compensation package is a start, Carnival SHOULD make good on expenses incurred due to this accident.. (Having to pay house/dog sitter/kennel charges, should reimburse those people who had to take extra vacation days/sick days for this)

 

But I don't know what you think the extent of carnival's liability is here, but they have (as I pointed out) already shelled out over 4 million on compensation, and I am sure will shell out MUCH more...

 

BUt to blast Carnival because they aren't jumping at the bit to pay for you to get to the cruise they are giving you for free, well, you have nothing!

[airmj2123]

You pose accusations as questions, that is tatic to attribute guilt without any evidence to support your contention. Do you know the speed tugs can travel? How is going to Mobile more sinister than going to Progresso? How would the logistics of gettting people home from Progresso compare to Mobile?

 

Thanks :D

 

As a side note, I wasn't trying to say that they Mobile was selected for the reasons... Just facts about the other ports that made them difficult (probably factors in the decision, potentially deciding ones but not necessarily)