Fire on Carnival Triumph. No engines, running on emergency generators.

[dwjoe]

I haven't heard so much Communication Breakdown since Led Zeppelin I

Sounds like CCL had to make some fast decisions on where to book hotel rooms for the pax, and they didn't call their old contacts in Mobile, who felt slighted about it.

 

Mobile has some lingering hard feelings against CCL from when they suddenly pulled out of the port in ... 2011? I believe it was.

 

Anyhoo, it was nice of CCL to publicly thank the city of Mobile for their help.

[MrPete]

Sounds like CCL had to make some fast decisions on where to book hotel rooms for the pax, and they didn't call their old contacts in Mobile, who felt slighted about it.

 

Mobile has some lingering hard feelings against CCL from when they suddenly pulled out of the port in ... 2011? I believe it was.

 

Anyhoo, it was nice of CCL to publicly thank the city of Mobile for their help.

 

Correct. Too bad there's no ROI.

[ReverendVW]

I'm not an expert but the "flash point" on deisel fuel is about 140-160 degrees, engine oil 220-240. If you spill some on the ground, drop a match on it, it will not ignite. So return line? Gotta be engine oil? Right? Theres no need for a "return line" for fuel....so I'm thinking. Whatever oil it was, had to be there a while......wherever and whatever it was.....I'm thinking......anyone?

 

Fuel oil is pressurized until the injector "pops", any excess fuel in the lowside of the injector, gets sent back to the fuel system through a return line. These lines are typically Steel, and have several unions along the way. They run near the exhaust manifolds.

The fact that the fire started this way, does not directly imply negligence, I have seen many fuel lines brake, simply from metal fatigue. And 99% of the time, the fuel landing on a manifold, does not ignite, simple smokes like oil in a frying pan.

 

It's called an accident, for a reason.

 

Now on that note, the simple fact, that one engine having a fire, shuts down a 6 engine system, is plain negligence. I expect they will swap out the fire suppression and bus management after this.

 

all the newer setups are capable of running on fewer engines, with a reduced output. You could argue, that CCL, is being cheap for not upgrading the older vessel, but I direct you to your own home, and it's plumbing/electrical.

If standard code for your house is changed, should you be required to upgrade a system in your house? I bet most of the plumbing/electrical in everyone's home, is not up to current safety regulations. (of there are exceptions)

[Paul65]

I'm not an expert but the "flash point" on deisel fuel is about 140-160 degrees, engine oil 220-240. If you spill some on the ground, drop a match on it, it will not ignite. So return line? Gotta be engine oil? Right? Theres no need for a "return line" for fuel....so I'm thinking. Whatever oil it was, had to be there a while......wherever and whatever it was.....I'm thinking......anyone?

 

I'm not sure exactly which grade of fuel oil was being used by Carnival, but I can address some of your points. First, the flash point is a point at which a fuel will form an ignitable vapor. Even if it's below its flash point, it might still catch fire, if you dropped a match directly on it. It just wouldn't catch fire from holding a match above it.

 

Now, as for it being a return line, this is possible. Common grades of marine "bunker oil" do require pre-heating, so it's possible that they actually pump the fuel oil through the engine, using the heat of the engine to heat the oil, then return it to the fuel tank in order to maintain the desired fuel temperature.

 

Hot fuel oil spraying out of a hose under pressure could pretty easily ignite, if there was a sufficient heat source around.

 

Edit: Or maybe it's what ReverendVW said above. I was only speculating that there might be a system for using the heat from the engines to pre-heat the fuel oil.

[lampskies]

 

Now on that note, the simple fact, that one engine having a fire, shuts down a 6 engine system, is plain negligence. (of there are exceptions)

 

I'm in the engine room on a ship that has had propulsion issues for weeks........one on my sister ships had an engine fire less than 2 years before (yes I heard that was a rod going thru the block......maintenace in my opinion) how is there not someone all over those engines? Now, I did hear that they were unable to refire the engines due to no more fire suppression capabilities (safety, one more fire, cant put it out) in the engine room.....if thats true I understand. If it was truely a fire big enough to knock out electrical grids? Where was everybody?

[ReverendVW]

I'm in the engine room on a ship that has had propulsion issues for weeks........one on my sister ships had an engine fire less than 2 years before (yes I heard that was a rod going thru the block......maintenace in my opinion) how is there not someone all over those engines? Now, I did hear that they were unable to refire the engines due to no more fire suppression capabilities (safety, one more fire, cant put it out) in the engine room.....if thats true I understand. If it was truely a fire big enough to knock out electrical grids? Where was everybody?

Thing is, if they had to use the suppression system, why is there only one charge? I know the forward compartment is huge, and probably needs 200+lbs of halox, but honestly, they could easily carry two shots. and how does one engine fire in one bank, effect the other? THey run 6 16cyl sultzers, and 2 12cyl. the 2 12's should have been enough to run basic power, maybe not propulsion, but at least keep power to the black system so it doesn't overpressurize. Just doesn't make any sense. Unless the generator they fixed previously was one of the 12's.

now that I'm typing this, it does make sense. If they couldn'e restart due to fire hazard, and one of the 12's (using as backup?) was inop, then trying to run everything on the ship with 1 12 wouldn't be enough.

[broberts]

I wonder if the problem was that the aft engine room could not be isolated from the rest of the electrical grid(s).

[cheewiee]

I wonder if the problem was that the aft engine room could not be isolated from the rest of the electrical grid(s).

 

Based on the CG Briefing yesterday, they said the Crew made the right choice in not refiring up the other set of Generators.. Due to the risk of the same problem happening.

[gtalum]

The most credible report I saw was that the engines in the second engine room probably could have been restarted, but they had used all of the Halon aboard to stifle the fire and thus wouldn't be able to extinguish another if it were to occur. No Halon means no engines starting. Anyway, as has been noted the USCG concurred with the decision to not attempt to restart.

[dwjoe]

Good article about Carnival's PR challenges ahead.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/richardlevick/2013/02/19/the-ick-factor-carnivals-long-haul-challenge-ahead/

[Evangaline]

I have never sailed with Carnival. The reasons for my hesitation seem sort of frivolous now- it was about failing to enforce no kids in the adult pool and kids running amok at all hours of the night etc., but the considerations now are serious. A fire in the engine room one time is one thing, but twice in two years makes you wonder. Will be waiting to see the final report on the investigation.

 

Regardless, I have to think Carnival was better than most cruiselines would have been about compensation. Still picturing the one in San Juan where the cruise ships were ordered out of port because of an impending hurricane. Carnival sat at the pier and took care of their guests while Royal Caribbean left everyone, who didn't book air with them, stranded with a hurricane bearing down on them. I never booked anything else with RCCL after hearing that one. Have to wonder how they would be with a situation like this one.

[caribill]

Sounds like CCL had to make some fast decisions on where to book hotel rooms for the pax, and they didn't call their old contacts in Mobile, who felt slighted about it.

 

If Carnival was able to place 2000 passengers in a single hotel, that greatly simplifies the process of getting all passengers to a hotel and getting them from a hotel to the airport the next morning, as well as having only one hotel to contact to make the arrangements.

 

(I have no idea how many rooms that hotel has, but I am surprised to find they had 1000 rooms that otherwise would have been empty that night.)

[3dog]

The most credible report I saw was that the engines in the second engine room probably could have been restarted, but they had used all of the Halon aboard to stifle the fire and thus wouldn't be able to extinguish another if it were to occur. No Halon means no engines starting. Anyway, as has been noted the USCG concurred with the decision to not attempt to restart.

 

Not sure where you got this report, but the one I read said " the fire was first tackled by H2O fog then CO2 fog."

 

Though CO2 probably requires an external recharge source, the H2O fog can be regenerated on the ship.

 

I haven't seen any report that made any suggestion of any attempt or even a consideration to restart any engines, including those in the forward compartment. I would appreciate a reference.

[Cindy]

Not sure where you got this report, but the one I read said " the fire was first tackled by H2O fog then CO2 fog."

 

Though CO2 probably requires an external recharge source, the H2O fog can be regenerated on the ship.

 

I haven't seen any report that made any suggestion of any attempt or even a consideration to restart any engines, including those in the forward compartment. I would appreciate a reference.

 

I read an article a couple days ago in which a USCG investigator was quoted as saying the decision to not attempt to restart the engines was the correct one under the circumstances. I don't remember a specific reference to the Halon discharge...just the information about not trying to power up the ship. Sorry, I can't find the article again...perhaps gtalum can provide a link.

[heathriel]

Seriously... peeing in the shower 'grossed' people out?!? What a bunch of _______ (insert other term for cats). That is really stupid. It's pee, people. It's not radioactive fallout. I pee in the sink when I'm shaving, in the shower when I'm bathing, and sometimes outside with the dog. It's just urine...

 

You pee in the sink? Seriously?

You must be single.

Right?

I mean, if you have a female around who knows you pee in the sink, you'd probably be single soon after she saw you do it ;)

[cheewiee]

You pee in the sink? Seriously?

You must be single.

Right?

I mean, if you have a female around who knows you pee in the sink, you'd probably be single soon after she saw you do it ;)

 

Urine is actually Sterile, and in a pinch can be used as an antiseptic...True Story!

[heathriel]

"Sterile" and "acceptable to have on the countertop" are two different things.

 

Now, peeing in the shower, outside, in the toilet, target practice, whatever.

 

But in the sink, noooooooooooooooo. ;)

[dwjoe]

http://blog.al.com/live/2013/02/carnival_triumph_costs_still_b.html

-CCL will be charged for Mobile city employee overtime costs in addition to use of the terminal

-Mobile mayor applauds city's efforts and expresses gratitude for positive media coverage of the city

-Mayor sees an opportunity to attract repositioned smaller cruise ships in future once larger cruise ships come into service

 

(Paraphrased to avoid copyright infringement)

[red-rose]

Seriously... peeing in the shower 'grossed' people out?!? What a bunch of _______ (insert other term for cats). That is really stupid. It's pee, people. It's not radioactive fallout. I pee in the sink when I'm shaving, in the shower when I'm bathing, and sometimes outside with the dog. It's just urine...

yikes... hm...

I mean, yeah, it's sterile... but I simply can't imagine how it would be easier to ever pee in a sink instead of just walking over to the toilet? (Are you like, 7 feet tall or something? :eek: )

And yes, ditto to not letting a woman ever see you do that!

[caribill]

One lawyer that wants clients for this

 

http://www.dnslaw.com/carnival-triumph/?gclid=CLiczNCpxbUCFQjNnAod2ioAmQ

[cruisinfanatic]

"Sterile" and "acceptable to have on the countertop" are two different things.

 

Now, peeing in the shower, outside, in the toilet, target practice, whatever.

 

But in the sink, noooooooooooooooo. ;)

ever been to Yankee Stadium in a very crowded men's room?

Couldn't believe what I saw and it wasn't just 1 person doing it

[nbsjcruiser]

Seriously... peeing in the shower 'grossed' people out?!? What a bunch of _______ (insert other term for cats). That is really stupid. It's pee, people. It's not radioactive fallout. I pee in the sink when I'm shaving, in the shower when I'm bathing, and sometimes outside with the dog. It's just urine...

 

I sincerely hope you are joking.....

[swedish weave]

yikes... hm...

I mean, yeah, it's sterile... but I simply can't imagine how it would be easier to ever pee in a sink instead of just walking over to the toilet? (Are you like, 7 feet tall or something? :eek: )

And yes, ditto to not letting a woman ever see you do that!

 

I understand that the people on the Triumph were asked not to urinate in the toilet. That supposedly was the cause for a lot of the toilets to overflow.

[RuthlessBoss]

You pee in the sink? Seriously?

You must be single.

Right?

I mean, if you have a female around who knows you pee in the sink, you'd probably be single soon after she saw you do it ;)

It's not a nice picture, true, but soap and water does the trick. What did you do with poopy water with babies? For those using soap and water for disease control, what do you do? Soap and water!

[Big_G]

Not sure where you got this report, but the one I read said " the fire was first tackled by H2O fog then CO2 fog."

 

Though CO2 probably requires an external recharge source, the H2O fog can be regenerated on the ship.

 

I haven't seen any report that made any suggestion of any attempt or even a consideration to restart any engines, including those in the forward compartment. I would appreciate a reference.

 

I read an article a couple days ago in which a USCG investigator was quoted as saying the decision to not attempt to restart the engines was the correct one under the circumstances. I don't remember a specific reference to the Halon discharge...just the information about not trying to power up the ship. Sorry, I can't find the article again...perhaps gtalum can provide a link.

 

Read the same article. Coast Guard spokesperson said they made the right decision not to restart because the fire suppression system had been exhausted. Paraphrasing because I too cannot find the original article.