Open Seating & Gratuities

[NLH Arizona]

Too many people with select dining were stiffing the staff so they made it a mandatory service charge to be paid before the cruise to prevent people from trying to stiff the staff. Not sure why this is so hard to grasp that is akin to a mandatory service charge - so is due at the time of final payment.

How were they stiffing the staff? Were they having the tips (daily service charge) taken off their bill, since it would have been charged to them on a daily basis? Couldn't those participating in traditional sittings do the same and have their tips (DSC) taken off as well?

[melsuli]

I can't justify or explain the logic of pre paid gratuities but would like to state I prefer to pay mine up front if for no other reason than to settle up in advance.

 

Doesn't stop me tipping extra for excellent service during the course of the cruise though. ;)

[ghstudio]

I suppose this thead will never die....but Celebrity has never justified the policy...it's just their policy. Many have guessed or tried to justify it, but it's all conjecture. Personally, I think it's just a way to improve cash flow...but that's no better a guess than it was done to avoid waiters being stiffed. If Celebrity really worried about waiters and others being stiffed, they would just make all gratuities payable in advance. It's a nice, perhaps romantic thought that Celebrity did this to help their staff....but I think it's just that.

[MEcruzr]

I usually skip these discussions... today I'm bored so I didn't. LOL

 

My question is this, why is it important to know why? I mean, it makes no difference. It's a rule. It's a policy. It is what it is. Just like attending the safety drill has rules (you must attend)... and the dining room has dress code requirements (no holes in pants, no bathing suits, etc)... it doesn't MATTER why. If you choose to do something you choose the policies associated with it, whether that's a cruise or a land vacation. If a policy is a deal breaker, don't choose it!

[Gonzo70]

Okay, so now I hear it's not a tip/gratuity but a "surcharge", akin to the extra charge for the specialty restaurants. Some of the explanations offered are totally lacking in depth. BTW-the surcharge for a speciality restaurant isn't billed until after the meal.

 

 

SAS

 

Big difference between a service charge and surcharge.

[Gonzo70]

1) Where did you hear that too many Select people were stiffing their servers

 

2) As I recall the pay tips in advance for Select on "X" was there when they introduced it, so to stiff one would have to ask for a reimbursement then as now.

 

edit:

 

Yes, here's the May 2009 Celebrity press

 

Celebrity Select Dining

Following a day of exploration, or a day spent lounging with a novel, Celebrity Select Dining offers a flexible approach to dining. Allowing you to be seated any time the Main Dining Room is open, this option means there's no schedule to follow, leaving only your heart and appetite to satisfy.

 

Due to the open nature of Celebrity Select Dining, a prepaid gratuity is required when choosing this option and will be included in your reservation. With Celebrity Select Dining, expect the same level of exceptional service, regardless of your dining time.

 

Thanks for the clarification; looks like I had that wrong. Did sister line RCI start anytime dining before Celebrity and later make "gratuities" mandatory because lots of stiffing was occurring? That may have been what I was thinking of.

[Starry Eyes]

Thanks for the clarification; looks like I had that wrong. Did sister line RCI start anytime dining before Celebrity and later make "gratuities" mandatory because lots of stiffing was occurring? That may have been what I was thinking of.

 

As I recall, Royal Caribbean's MTD gratuities were also prepaid from day 1.

[Fouremco]

I usually skip these discussions... today I'm bored so I didn't. LOL

 

My question is this, why is it important to know why? I mean, it makes no difference. It's a rule. It's a policy. It is what it is. Just like attending the safety drill has rules (you must attend)... and the dining room has dress code requirements (no holes in pants, no bathing suits, etc)... it doesn't MATTER why. If you choose to do something you choose the policies associated with it, whether that's a cruise or a land vacation. If a policy is a deal breaker, don't choose it!

 

We'd still be living in caves if people didn't ask the question "Why?". :D

 

[richsea]

We'd still be living in caves if people didn't ask the question "Why?". :D

 

 

I think we just ran out of caves.:D

[Starry Eyes]

I think we just ran out of caves.:D

 

And we ran out of caves quickly when every kid wanted his own cavern.

[MicCanberra]

And we ran out of caves quickly when every kid wanted his own cavern.

I want my cave to float from one place to another, exotic port preferred. :D

[boogs]

We'd still be living in caves if people didn't ask the question "Why?". :D

 

 

But why is my cave different than the other caves? I am being discriminated against. It's totally unfair!!!

 

 

 

.

[A Sixth?]

But why is my cave different than the other caves? I am being discriminated against. It's totally unfair!!!

 

 

 

.

 

Why? :rolleyes::p

[MicCanberra]

But why is my cave different than the other caves? I am being discriminated against. It's totally unfair!!!

 

 

 

.

LOl:D

[Algebralovr]

So if you don't want to one-day the service charges, book traditional dining. If you prefer dining select, either accept that you have to one-day or hope you can transfer by speaking to the Matre'D when you first board the ship.

[Fouremco]

So if you don't want to one-day the service charges, book traditional dining. If you prefer dining select, either accept that you have to one-day or hope you can transfer by speaking to the Matre'D when you first board the ship.

 

Isn't this thread is about caves? :p:D

[MicCanberra]

Isn't this thread is about caves? :p:D

Why do you ask?:confused:

[We Go Cruise Brah]

Do you end up paying the same amount?

[jenZ]

I wonder- does the policy have anything to do with the logistics of distributing tips? It must be more difficult to allocate tips on a rotating server basis....By having the money in advance the funds could be divvied up the same night. I would imagine you could adjust the individual nights tips if the service were so bad to warrant that.

[MicCanberra]

Do you end up paying the same amount?

Yes, it is the same mandatory tips, of course you can tip extra.:D

[voyager1964]

The answer could be simple:

Prepaid gratuities is an instrument to control capacity.

Gratuities and not service charge - to avoid taxes.

[BKFlowerMound]

As noted by many here, Celebrity hasn't disclosed why they require prepaid gratuities for Select and not for Traditional dining. Bottom line, no one on Cruise Critic has the answer. But speculation is fun, so . . .

 

The most important background fact is that nearly all of the compensation received by the staff is the gratuities. You don't have to like that fact, but it is a fact. For Select dining to work, X had to consider whether gratuities would decrease if Select was implemented. Because guests didn't have the same staff every night, it's logical to think that some guests would be more likely to stiff the staff and fail to pay. In addition, the staff needed to be comfortable that their compensation wouldn't decrease with Select. So, that meant X had two choices:

 

1. Require prepayment, or

2. Daily auto tips.

 

At the time X rolled Select dining out, auto tips was an opt-in feature on X and on RCCL. In order to have your tips added to your account, you had to ask. Otherwise, you tipped personally with cash on the last night. HAL and Princess had opt-out auto tipping. While X could have required auto tipping instead of prepayment, it wasn't as automatic of a decision on X then it likely was on HAL or Princess.

 

Other factors that likely influenced this decision were that: a. they likely had some knowledge regarding whether some HAL and Princess guests were removing their auto tips; b. some bean counter in Finance told them how much money they would make by accelerating the payment by requiring prepayment.

 

We like Select Dining and live with prepaying. It's interesting to note, however, that the whole Anytime/As you wish/my time/select dining came about because HAL's Vista class ships had dining rooms too small to seat every guest at two seatings. Celebrity, similarly, couldn't have added cabins to M-Class without Select. The concept lets the cruise line use the space more efficiently.

[fizzy1]

it is simply to control the flow of diners in the MDR, as some passengers will be quite happy to pay upfront for SD between 6pm and 10 pm approx. and some wont, so will choose either early or late sitting, therefore spreading the work load between MDR opening and closing hours. Nothing more complicated or sinister than that

[Starry Eyes]

As noted by many here, Celebrity hasn't disclosed why they require prepaid gratuities for Select and not for Traditional dining. Bottom line, no one on Cruise Critic has the answer. But speculation is fun, so . . .

...

We like Select Dining and live with prepaying. It's interesting to note, however, that the whole Anytime/As you wish/my time/select dining came about because HAL's Vista class ships had dining rooms too small to seat every guest at two seatings. Celebrity, similarly, couldn't have added cabins to M-Class without Select. The concept lets the cruise line use the space more efficiently.

Since we agree speculation is fun....

I would speculate that the whole Anytime/As you wish/my time/select dining came about because NCL instituted freestyle dining. Suddenly new potential cruisers could dine as they do in restaurants at home...with their own party at a separate table when they are ready to dine. much as traditional cruises like sharing tables at set times, the concept is off putting to a substantial number of potential customers; they were thus drawn to NCL. Gradually other lines added the options for a subset of their dining rooms. as one line added it, pressure increased on the remaining ones.

 

Does open dinign increase efficiency? Well, maybe if they can fill the tables promptly at opening and then turn the table twice for a total of three times per night vs two in traditional dining. OTOH, if people do not file in promptly, instead waiting until say 7 to 7:30 then linger as long as those in traditional dining, efficiency is decreased.

 

I think efficiency might increase if the cruiseline gave guests the chance to totally opt out of the MDR. after all there are guests who will eat in buffet or specialty restaurants or room service every single night of their cruise. prepaying gratuities may dissuade them from Select dining, so instead they are assigned seats in traditional dining...seats that are vacant every single night. silly

[KIKIKAT]

It is my understanding that if you prepay tips---all the waiters share equally --no matter where they work. I always prepay--I really don't want to worry about keeping enough smaller bills for tipping--plus I would spend a lot more than $12 a day in tips. However, if somone is really good--I will probably give them something extra at the end of the cruise.:):):)