New propulsion problem on Millennium

[BEAV]

Since you were in the transportation industry, then you understand that the Ketchickan airport is not exactly a busy international/national airport with planes arriving and leaving every 15 minutes. I imagine all the seats were quickly booked out of the airport on regularly scheduled airlines (Alaska). Renting a car and leaving by road is of course not possible. With 2000 people suddenly descending on this small town would tax its ability to serve that many people at once. In short, everyone on the millie was at the mercy of what X could arrange at the last minute. It is nice to be self sufficient, but when the support structure is not there it becomes mission impossible.

 

I totally understand where you're coming from with your comments. As I said in my original post, "It didn't take me too long to decide that if I was ever on the customer side of such a disruption, to immediately seek out my own alternate transportation, if possible, rather than wait for a company to make arrangements on my behalf." Heavy emphasis on the "if possible".;)

 

In other words, I'd explore every independent option first, as opposed to just automatically going with the flow of the masses.

 

As to Ketchikan specifically, yes, I've been there many times, including taking the infamous ferry across to reach the airport! From what I've read on these boards about Millie's evacuation last week, I'm under the impression it was done totally by charters as opposed to utilizing regularly scheduled Alaska Airlines flights.

 

As to the two daily flights between KTN and ANC mentioned earlier in this thread, tomorrow, for example, Alaska flies four nonstop 737's to Seattle. I don't know if anyone last week independently booked themselves on an Alaska flight to Seattle, but for tomorrow they are charging $479.

[moebruin]

Yes all the planes used were charters. I was on post cruise tour through Celebrity so we did as told.

 

I know two woman we meet onboard who were totally thrown around by Celebrity and they ended up doing what you suggested: booked their own flights. The went to Anchorage and I know they paid hour hundred and something each.

 

They felt the lack of aggravation and the extra day on the ship for free (departed Thursday instead of Wednesday) was worth the extra expense.

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Forums mobile app

[ccsuwxman]

As for me, and I assume, everyone else, I am still waiting for my refund to show up on my credit card account. As my payment due date is approaching, I've decided to dispute the charge so I won't have to pay interest on the large amount, but can withhold payment of that amount until =X= forks over the refund.

[VanessaM]

I don't think it's right that people can't just have all their nonrefundable arrangements and auxiliary expenses covered by Celebrity since the issue is on their end. Why should the affected passengers have to eat the costs?

 

AMEN!!

 

I happen to be one of those passengers and while I did manage to salvage part of my vacation by booking another cruise, I am having to spend an additional $800 that I was not budgeting for on my "new" vacation. I now have to spend an additional night in Vancouver. I also had to buy additional airfare since originally we were scheduled to fly out of San Diego and it was cheaper to buy a new ticket than pay for the change fee plus the additional fees to fly from Vancouver to FL.

 

That $800 is in addition to other monies loss due to nonrefundables. So needless to say, I will not be doing some of the things I would have liked to do because I've had to rebudget.

 

However, when I or other fellow CCers posted similar sentiments, we were basically told "Oh suck it up! It can be so much worse!" While I do realize that and am happy that there was no deaths, heart attacks or etc. involved, I also do not feel that it we should have to absorb the cost of things that were associated with something that was their fault!

[CptSticky]

AMEN!!

 

I happen to be one of those passengers and while I did manage to salvage part of my vacation by booking another cruise, I am having to spend an additional $800 that I was not budgeting for on my "new" vacation. I now have to spend an additional night in Vancouver. I also had to buy additional airfare since originally we were scheduled to fly out of San Diego and it was cheaper to buy a new ticket than pay for the change fee plus the additional fees to fly from Vancouver to FL.

 

That $800 is in addition to other monies loss due to nonrefundables. So needless to say, I will not be doing some of the things I would have liked to do because I've had to rebudget.

 

However, when I or other fellow CCers posted similar sentiments, we were basically told "Oh suck it up! It can be so much worse!" While I do realize that and am happy that there was no deaths, heart attacks or etc. involved, I also do not feel that it we should have to absorb the cost of things that were associated with something that was their fault!

Yes, you are absolutely correct. It was their fault and they are not compensating you accordingly. However, as others have cold heartedly stated, if you have read your cruise contract which was not prepared by YOUR lawyer, it basically says that you agree to pay them for a cruise which they will try to provide. If for some reason they can't, it's not their fault and they have no obligation to you. Now, is this fair or even a good deal on your part? NO it isn't. Is this normal for cruise lines? YES it is. So, we all (whether or not we realize it when signing up) agree to this unfair treatment and hope that it will never bite us in the ... Should there be a law to forbid this? Maybe, but do you have enough votes? How much can you afford to pay the lobbyist? I sound kind of cold hearted don't I? Not really trying to, just trying to look at things through a "reality lens". We sail a lot and some day these things will happen to us also. I will not be happy, but will have to deal with it. Not to sound uncaring, I am actually sorry this happened to people.

[MicCanberra]

Yes, you are absolutely correct. It was their fault and they are not compensating you accordingly. However, as others have cold heartedly stated, if you have read your cruise contract which was not prepared by YOUR lawyer, it basically says that you agree to pay them for a cruise which they will try to provide. If for some reason they can't, it's not their fault and they have no obligation to you. Now, is this fair or even a good deal on your part? NO it isn't. Is this normal for cruise lines? YES it is. So, we all (whether or not we realize it when signing up) agree to this unfair treatment and hope that it will never bite us in the ... Should there be a law to forbid this? Maybe, but do you have enough votes? How much can you afford to pay the lobbyist? I sound kind of cold hearted don't I? Not really trying to, just trying to look at things through a "reality lens". We sail a lot and some day these things will happen to us also. I will not be happy, but will have to deal with it. Not to sound uncaring, I am actually sorry this happened to people.

 

Sometimes the text does not convey the person's emotions when typing so as you say the reality comes across as harsh and uncaring while that may not be the intention.:D

[CptSticky]

Sometimes the text does not convey the person's emotions when typing so as you say the reality comes across as harsh and uncaring while that may not be the intention.:D

Unfortunately my emotions good or bad do not really matter. The cruise companies have us by their contracts. That's a fact. Like I used to always tell my kids when they were growing up "who ever said that life was fair". I always get the feeling that people think things should be fair. They are not. I just closed escrow on a house. I had to sign about 20 pages of legal papers. Do I know what I signed? No. Does the average cruiser know what they signed? Probably not. Cruise contracts are not written for our benefit. Our choice is to accept them or not cruise. Fair, no, reality, yes. Now on the other hand, I have heard that the rules in Europe are more favorable to the cruising public. Then again, I often hear complaints about why the prices are higher there. I'm not a financial wizard, but can pretty well guess why. The old saying is that there is no free lunch. Don't get me wrong, I'm no cheer leader for the cruise industry. I think it stinks the way they write the contracts, but they do and that's the way it is.

[Dunelm]

I so agree. LOVE the "service disruption" description. We seem to have those at times also. And I also agree about taking care of yourself. What has happened to American's self sufficiency and "can do" attitude?

 

There have been descriptions of the flights out of Ketchikan as close to the Saigon airlift. People are complaining about only one bathroom, being cold and rude people. Everyone should take a minute to stop and think how much worse a LOT of people have it in a very similar situation. When the volcano went off in Europe, people were sleeping in airports FOR DAYS. Someone brought up the Asiana crash and how SFO was basically shut down and people were stranded all over the USA trying to get on a plane. There are so many problems so much larger that impact travel than having to sit in an airport (even a cold airport) without much to eat or drink for 5-10 hours. You could have been sitting on the tarmac for 10 hours in a smelly, stinky plane as the JetBlue passengers were.

 

Thank your lucky stars that no one was hurt, had a heart attack or something else equally as tragic. Your vacation was disrupted, you weren't treated to 5* accommodations, you were subjected to rude people trying to manage an almost unmanageable situation out of a small town in the wilds of Alaska. IF this is the worst that ever happens in your life, you have truly led a blessed life.

 

I agree with you completely. Life is not always fair. I have found that people who have suffered the most are often the most patient. I remember a relative who was paralyzed from the neck down, and was such an inspiration that social workers brought youths in trouble to talk to him. When tough times happen, it seems to bring out the best and the worst in people. Kudos to those passengers who showed grace under pressure!

[havepassportwilltravel]

We, too, were on the ill-fated "Kaught in Ketchikan" trip last week. Enough has already been said about both sides of the issue. We've traveled enough to know that risk is inherent, including financial risk. However, some administrative issues made the situation ripe for mishap, including the fact that the ship's computer system couldn't "talk" to the computers brought by the "Go Team." So telling the Guest Relations Staff something and getting it entered into one's record had no effect on getting it to the people who were actually making the arrangements. And, then, after the Go-Team thought they had gotten things arranged as people had requested, the ship's staff (maybe corporate) unilaterally cancelled the Go-Team's plans. And, the absence of senior corporate management AND ship's staff was a major contributing factor in what felt like chaos.

 

However, I don't believe anyone has yet brought this up. For the last two months, ships traveling under the Cruise Lines Industry Association (CLIA) have agreed to a Passengers' Bill of Rights, brought about by legislation introduced following recent cruise line "mishaps," to bring the cruise industry into the same kind of regulation now required of the airlines. You can find the "CLIA" logo at the bottom right hand corner of the Celebrity website.

 

I plan to attach my receipts for reimbursement along with a copy of this "Bill of Rights."

 

INTERNATIONAL CRUISE LINE PASSENGER BILL OF RIGHTS

The Members of the Cruise Lines International Association are dedicated to the comfort and care of all passengers on oceangoing cruises throughout the world. To fulfill this commitment, our Members have agreed to adopt the following set of passenger rights:

 

1. The right to disembark a docked ship if essential provisions such as food, water, restroom facilities and access to medical care cannot adequately be provided onboard, subject only to the Master’s concern for passenger safety and security and customs and immigration requirements of the port.
   
2. The right to a full refund for a trip that is canceled due to mechanical failures, or a partial refund for voyages that are terminated early due to those failures.
   
3. The right to have available on board ships operating beyond rivers or coastal waters full-time, professional emergency medical attention, as needed until shore side medical care becomes available.
   
4. The right to timely information updates as to any adjustments in the itinerary of the ship in the event of a mechanical failure or emergency, as well as timely updates of the status of efforts to address mechanical failures.
   
5. The right to a ship crew that is properly trained in emergency and evacuation procedures.
   
6. The right to an emergency power source in the case of a main generator failure.
   
7. The right to transportation to the ship’s scheduled port of disembarkation or the passenger’s home city in the event a cruise is terminated early due to mechanical failures.
   
8. The right to lodging if disembarkation and an overnight stay in an unscheduled port are required when a cruise is terminated early due to mechanical failures.
   
9. The right to have included on each cruise line’s website a toll-free phone line that can be used for questions or information concerning any aspect of shipboard operations.
   
10. The right to have this Cruise Line Passenger Bill of Rights published on each line’s website.
    

We'll be back on Celebrity. We are addicted to the S-Ships and AQ. Sometimes we take travel insurance; sometimes we don't. But, I'll be reading those policies a lot differently now and continuing to calculate the amount of risk we are willing to take each time...and praying for fair winds and following seas. :-)

 

 

Blessings...

 

 

Cathy (and Bob)

[havepassportwilltravel]

And, you might want to read the press release about the CLIA Bill of Rights. Just fyi.

 

Cathy

 

http://www.cruising.org/news/press_releases/2013/05/cruise-industry-adopts-passenger-bill-rights

[long time lurker]

Interesting to read the passenger bill if rights. I find point 7 to be particularly relevant. The question is does it have any teeth?

[MicCanberra]

Interesting to read the passenger bill if rights. I find point 7 to be particularly relevant. The question is does it have any teeth?

 

Yes, I am sure that X failed to deliver in a lot of the cases.:D

[TommyD3]

7. The right to transportation to the ship’s scheduled port of disembarkation or the passenger’s home city in the event a cruise is terminated early due to mechanical failures

 

 

The problem is, in most cases, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between the "port of disembarkation" and "the passenger's home city".

 

The passenger could live halfway around the world. Getting them to the port would be trivial compared to getting them home.....

[uksimonusa]

The problem is, in most cases, there is a SIGNIFICANT difference between the "port of disembarkation" and "the passenger's home city".

 

The passenger could live halfway around the world. Getting them to the port would be trivial compared to getting them home.....

 

 

But in this case, it seems like X did neither in some cases

[deise17311]

However, when I or other fellow CCers posted similar sentiments, we were basically told "Oh suck it up! It can be so much worse!" While I do realize that and am happy that there was no deaths, heart attacks or etc. involved, I also do not feel that it we should have to absorb the cost of things that were associated with something that was their fault!

 

Back seat drivers...I totally agree...

[ghstudio]

It certainly is interesting to read the "passenger bill of rights" and item 7. From the reports here, it doesn't appear to me that Celebrity followed them.

 

One might also read the Cruise Critic posting on the bill of rights....and you might want to let some of the senators/congressmen involved know how the bill of rights is being followed.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5454

 

As I recall, the bill of rights was put in place in order to convince congress that the industry could self regulate itself and didn't need outside help. If the self regulation isn't working, I'm sure those congressmen would like to know from any folks who were effected.

[greatam]

It certainly is interesting to read the "passenger bill of rights" and item 7. From the reports here, it doesn't appear to me that Celebrity followed them.

 

One might also read the Cruise Critic posting on the bill of rights....and you might want to let some of the senators/congressmen involved know how the bill of rights is being followed.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5454

 

As I recall, the bill of rights was put in place in order to convince congress that the industry could self regulate itself and didn't need outside help. If the self regulation isn't working, I'm sure those congressmen would like to know from any folks who were effected.

 

Didn't X get everyone to either Vancouver or Anchorage or Seattle?

 

I am trying to figure out how anyone thinks X didn't complete their obligation per the wording. The wording is specifically written with the word OR. I certainly can't interpret that to mean everyone was entitled to a free plane ride home. No one was left to fend for themselves in Ketchikan. And from reading postings from those on the cruise, they were provided hotels until their homeward bound plane reservations could be sorted out.

 

The compensation will sort itself out when things calm down. Those who send in valid receipts AFTER they have sent them to their insurance company and were denied will have a very strong leg to stand on to get compensated for most expenses. Extra hotels because they CHOSE to stay a couple of extra days or those kind of extra expenses, no. But non refundable tours and non refundable hotels pre/post cruise will most likely be compensated with a well written letter, a denial letter from the insurance company and receipts.

[greatam]

However, when I or other fellow CCers posted similar sentiments, we were basically told "Oh suck it up! It can be so much worse!" While I do realize that and am happy that there was no deaths, heart attacks or etc. involved, I also do not feel that it we should have to absorb the cost of things that were associated with something that was their fault!

 

Back seat drivers...I totally agree...

 

I know this was directed at me. I WAS in the same situation 10 years ago. And communication and booking things on the internet was almost in its infancy then. Changing our plans at the last minute was much more difficult that it is today.

 

Have you actually totaled up what you are out of pocket? Have you sent the information to your insurance company? Have you read through your insurance policy and found sections which may or may not pertain to your situation? These should be included with your letter and receipts.

 

And I still don't understand why you didn't just get on the plane you had booked and paid for and go enjoy Alaska, particularly when your sister from London was already in Alaska? Would have made a nice family vacation. And changing your plane ticket, even at the last minute, from an open jaw XXX to ANC, return to XXX from YVR, to a RT ANC may have saved you quite a bit. RT tickets to Alaska from the lower 48 are generally $100-150 CHEAPER than the open jaw tickets needed for most cruises.

 

I leave Saturday for my last trip of the year to Alaska (business). In speaking with my employees who have been in Alaska working all summer, there are a LOT of hotels available in various places (ANC, Seward and Homer particularly). A couple of them are going to fly their families/girlfriends up before they finish their work season because there are some bargains on hotels right now.

[greatam]

But in this case, it seems like X did neither in some cases

 

Are you implying that people were left in Ketchikan or that people were sent to places they didn't really want to go?

[ghstudio]

Didn't X get everyone to either Vancouver or Anchorage or Seattle?

 

I am trying to figure out how anyone thinks X didn't complete their obligation per the wording. The wording is specifically written with the word OR. I certainly can't interpret that to mean everyone was entitled to a free plane ride home. No one was left to fend for themselves in Ketchikan. And from reading postings from those on the cruise, they were provided hotels until their homeward bound plane reservations could be sorted out.

 

The compensation will sort itself out when things calm down. Those who send in valid receipts AFTER they have sent them to their insurance company and were denied will have a very strong leg to stand on to get compensated for most expenses. Extra hotels because they CHOSE to stay a couple of extra days or those kind of extra expenses, no. But non refundable tours and non refundable hotels pre/post cruise will most likely be compensated with a well written letter, a denial letter from the insurance company and receipts.

 

The bill of rights is quite specific....."port of disembarkation". I believe, again from the accounts I've read here, that most passengers, even those that asked, were not transported to Seward, which I believe was the port of embarkation.

 

I hope you are right about the compensation....I do think that celebrity will ultimately make folks reasonably whole and perhaps change the compensation, but that's only a hunch based on experience with the "pre bayley" Celebrity.

[swafluffy11]

I was on the Aug 9th as well... still feeling the disappointment.. Last night Celebrity credited our card... $1248 each. Although some would think this is great, we do not. How can we reproduce this bucket list cruise with all of our friends, 2 weeks from work, airfare, cruise, etc. for that amount.... so completely fed up... Also, those of us getting off the ship on Aug 16th heard that the ship was is trouble again with the engine (yes we too felt the "bump") and would not be leaving port... and then surprise, it did, only to get stuck again... My husband read that Celebrity is recovering its costs from Rolls Royce... who do we recover our costs from?

[swafluffy11]

thats exactly what we did.. we laughed ALOT while stuck in Sewer (Seward)... made friends and LOVED the staff onboard who are wonderful.. Only in the past few days have I been dealing with the downside of our lost cruise..

[swafluffy11]

So agree... $2300 in airfare on the Aug 9th sailing... yes we were just credited $1248 each for our cruise portion only.. balcony cat 2B... ok, thanks but really $1200? We already started looking to do this next year but NOT on Millennium... just our cruise fare is $4100 per room.... again, so completely disappointed.....

[moebruin]

As someone on August 16th cruise they definitely made a big mistake by not following rule 7.

 

If they had let everyone off in Anchorage where people were expecting to move from at the end of the cruise, it would have saved puerile on the cruise allot of problems. And if there wasn't enough hotel rooms in Anchorage they could have kept the ship in Ketchikan another day and rented a third plane to fly people out.

 

They definitely went the route that was best economically for Celebrity and not their stranded Cruise customers.

 

And if course it should be noted they also when possible did what they could to save a few bucks with their employees.

 

Yes this is another case of corporate greed but it is what America is about today and compared to other industries they were relatively generous to those on board because they needed to keep the bad publicity down.

 

Being people who were on the cruises that were cancelled don't get the media attention that those that were on the cruise get they of course we're less generous with those.

 

They fully realize they might have upset some loyal customers but the number crunchers will tell them it's only a tiny insignificant number of people who will stop using Celebrity because of this incident.

 

 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Forums mobile app

[Flying is for Planes]

http://www.creative.rccl.com/e-lite/CEL/MB_ML/MB_ML_Video.html

 

Celebrity CEO only interested in selling more cruises and totally whitewashed the way pax were treated:confused: