Should HAL drop Russia?

[jresn02]

I was on the EURODAM last year on the baltic cruise. We spent 2 full days in St. Petersburg and spent a lot of money on tours and supporting the local economy (over 2k). I now feel bad that I supported the Russian Economy now that Putin has decided that he can take anything he wants (superbowl ring, Ukraine, Georgia, what is next?).

 

My question for the board is at what point do you think it is appropriate for a cruse line to take into consideration the geopolitical events in Russia (or any country) and deciding to support the government with tourist dollars? My next question is since HAL is a based in the netherlands is there a chance that they will be forced to stop making a port call there due to sanctions?

 

I tell you this if you cut off all the tours to St Petersburg by western based cruise companies it would have a devastating effect on the local economy there. They at times have as many boats as Venice.

 

Thoughts? I really do feel bad that I supported a tyrant and a country that seems not be able to respect the rights of it neighbors.

[janmcn]

I totally understand the attitude…but, having the Baltics still on our Bucket List, I think that the only people we'll hurt by NOT visiting Russia are the real people. The guides, tourist places, etc…are who we will be supporting immediately. If we don't go there, they will be the ones to suffer unfortunately.

[jresn02]

I totally understand the attitude…but, having the Baltics still on our Bucket List, I think that the only people we'll hurt by NOT visiting Russia are the real people. The guides, tourist places, etc…are who we will be supporting immediately. If we don't go there, they will be the ones to suffer unfortunately.

 

That would be the point. Pain on Main Street will cause protests in Red Square. If nobody is effected by the governments actions then why would anyone demand change?

 

Also, I will say the public seems to support Putin's actions based on all the polls that have come out recently. Sub out RIGA with St. petersburg and stay longer in Stockholm would be my suggestion.

 

Again, I do feel guilty myself.

[Watson's aunt]

Hi

 

Russia was on my bucket list. I was hoping to visit. But as long as Putin is causing troubles My tax dollars will be spent elsewhere.

 

 

Mary

[HamOp]

Hi

 

Russia was on my bucket list. I was hoping to visit. But as long as Putin is causing troubles My tax dollars will be spent elsewhere.

 

 

Mary

 

Your Tax Dollars???:confused:

[jresn02]

Hi

 

Russia was on my bucket list. I was hoping to visit. But as long as Putin is causing troubles My tax dollars will be spent elsewhere.

 

 

Mary

 

Kudos to you. I feel guilty and hope more will take a similar stance

[catl331]

Unless ALL the cruise lines agreed to stop visiting Russia, I don't think HAL stopping would have much impact. But - I certainly would not book a cruise that visits Russia right now.

Edited April 15, 2014 by catl331

[kazu]

HAL has already stopped visiting part of Russia ;)

 

Odessa has been taken over by Russia and both Odessa and Sevestapol have been dropped on our itinerary for Prinsendam cruise in the fall.

 

I'm not sure what the future holds - but the Crimea that is taken over and threatened by the Russian impact has already been dropped.

[sail7seas]

I would not visit Russia now.

[lazey1]

I totally understand the attitude…but, having the Baltics still on our Bucket List, I think that the only people we'll hurt by NOT visiting Russia are the real people. The guides, tourist places, etc…are who we will be supporting immediately. If we don't go there, they will be the ones to suffer unfortunately.

 

We totally agree with the above, EXCEPT we would be hurting ourselves by not seeing all the treasures of St. Petersburg. We would also suffer.:(

[sunsetbeachgal]

We were hoping to do another Baltic cruise this year but I am with those who won't spend a dime in Russia. The average Russian supports this move by Putin so let them live with the consequences..I am sure Putin won't be the one facing a shortage of income or luxuries.

 

My travel dollars will go elsewhere this year....we found a cruise that we like better!

Edited April 15, 2014 by sunsetbeachgal

[Watson's aunt]

Your Tax Dollars???:confused:

 

Opps my hard earned dollars.

 

Mary

[bevfd]

I booked a Baltic cruise which includes SPB last year, before the problems in the Ukraine and before the Winter Olympics and the rampant homophobia of the officials was exposed. Given the choice I would not be going as a tourist to Russia but I have long since booked and simply cannot afford to lose the money. I leave in 5 weeks so it's too late to do anything now.

 

Russian social politics and foreign policy have long been an issue so maybe I just shouldn't have booked it in the first place.:confused:

Edited April 15, 2014 by bevfd

[bevfd]

There are a number of countries that I choose not to holiday in and I am perfectly able to determine my own 'protest priorities'. I'm afraid I am at a loss to understand the tone of posts like this, completely unnecessary.

[jresn02]

well if more sanctions are passed they very well may impact visas and typically anything we do to another country in terms of restrictions will be reciprocated which then would impact all cruises not just HAL. I am heartened by most here who feel that now is not the time to visit Russia. For those offended by the thread....sorry.

 

Will be interesting to see how this plays out over the next few months.

[julia]

Well, I guess most of you will be cancelling your cruises to the Arabic countries then. Also China. At least Russia doesn't treat women like dogs as in the Arabic countries. Russia also doesn't have any sweatshops where minor children and women are worked to death like in China. Get your protest priorities straight, please.

 

 

Excellent points. If the cruise lines were to protest the hundreds of political and social inequities around the world, then their ships would simply be sailing in circles.

If safety is not a factor in discontinuing a port, then it is up to the individual consumer to speak with their choices.

[LindaM]

There are a number of countries that I choose not to holiday in and I am perfectly able to determine my own 'protest priorities'. I'm afraid I am at a loss to understand the tone of posts like this, completely unnecessary.

 

I agree...I find it offensive when posters feel the need to criticize where I choose not to travel to. I was recently attacked on another board for stating I have no interest in Brazil, due to the crime. I got the same response....it's no one's business---why do they think they have the right to judge???

[jresn02]

Well, I guess most of you will be cancelling your cruises to the Arabic countries then. Also China. At least Russia doesn't treat women like dogs as in the Arabic countries. Russia also doesn't have any sweatshops where minor children and women are worked to death like in China. Get your protest priorities straight, please.

 

Russia does have sweatshops. Try Siberia work camps. I won't spend my dollars in places like China, or many of the arabic countries. hell 1/2 of them won't let my peeps in the country. Also a huge difference in taking over sovereign country repetitively now. Ukraine and Georgia. Would have the same opinion if the China invaded Taiwan.

Edited April 15, 2014 by jresn02

[cruisemom42]

It's my humble opinion -- which I'm sure others will not agree with -- that HAL's job is to keep passengers safe, based on current knowledge. This would include taking into consideration any higher-level travel warnings from relevant government state departments or other gov't directives.

 

Absent such warnings or directives prohibiting or strongly discouraging travel, it should be an individual decision as to whether to spend one's travel dollars in Russia or elsewhere.

 

Other countries have abysmal human rights records and are indulging in land grabs via misguided imperialistic tendencies (China, I'm looking at YOU), etc. In fact, if I were to travel only to countries where I agree with most of their government's actions, my choices would be very limited indeed.

 

As I posted on another board here recently:

 

"I travel to learn about the world -- to learn things you cannot just learn by reading about them in books or seeing them on television. I have found, in the course of visiting various countries, that most people in those countries are just ordinary people like anyone else -- trying to make a living, worried about the future, perhaps proud of their business or their children....

 

I've also found that when I have visited a country, I care more about that country, read more about it, and follow it more in the news. Thus I am better able to formulate and express an opinion about its current events.

 

Finally, I am what I guess could be called an "armchair archaeologist and historian". I live in constant fear that many of the places/things I want to visit will either be closed to me (as has happened in Libya) or will get destroyed (like the Bamayan Buddhas in Afghanistan). If I get the chance to travel somewhere, I will. I'm so glad I followed that philosophy and visited Syria a few years ago.... Did I agree with what their government was doing at the time? Not at all. Did I get to see areas that have now been destroyed by their civil war? You bet. "

[babyher]

It's my humble opinion -- which I'm sure others will not agree with -- that HAL's job is to keep passengers safe, based on current knowledge. This would include taking into consideration any higher-level travel warnings from relevant government state departments or other gov't directives.

 

Absent such warnings or directives prohibiting or strongly discouraging travel, it should be an individual decision as to whether to spend one's travel dollars in Russia or elsewhere.

 

Other countries have abysmal human rights records and are indulging in land grabs via misguided imperialistic tendencies (China, I'm looking at YOU), etc. In fact, if I were to travel only to countries where I agree with most of their government's actions, my choices would be very limited indeed.

 

As I posted on another board here recently:

 

"I travel to learn about the world -- to learn things you cannot just learn by reading about them in books or seeing them on television. I have found, in the course of visiting various countries, that most people in those countries are just ordinary people like anyone else -- trying to make a living, worried about the future, perhaps proud of their business or their children....

 

I've also found that when I have visited a country, I care more about that country, read more about it, and follow it more in the news. Thus I am better able to formulate and express an opinion about its current events.

 

Finally, I am what I guess could be called an "armchair archaeologist and historian". I live in constant fear that many of the places/things I want to visit will either be closed to me (as has happened in Libya) or will get destroyed (like the Bamayan Buddhas in Afghanistan). If I get the chance to travel somewhere, I will. I'm so glad I followed that philosophy and visited Syria a few years ago.... Did I agree with what their government was doing at the time? Not at all. Did I get to see areas that have now been destroyed by their civil war? You bet. "

 

Beautifully said . I could not agree more .

[CanuckonaBoat]

Well, I guess most of you will be cancelling your cruises to the Arabic countries then. Also China. At least Russia doesn't treat women like dogs as in the Arabic countries. Russia also doesn't have any sweatshops where minor children and women are worked to death like in China. Get your protest priorities straight, please.

 

I live in the UAE. I definitely don't see women treated like dogs. Far from it. They are far more educated than the men. They have leadership positions in both the private sector and public. They get specialty services just for them. and i could go on and on and on. It's time to stop breeding ignorance.

[kirin]

It's my humble opinion -- which I'm sure others will not agree with -- that HAL's job is to keep passengers safe, based on current knowledge. This would include taking into consideration any higher-level travel warnings from relevant government state departments or other gov't directives.

 

Absent such warnings or directives prohibiting or strongly discouraging travel, it should be an individual decision as to whether to spend one's travel dollars in Russia or elsewhere.

 

Other countries have abysmal human rights records and are indulging in land grabs via misguided imperialistic tendencies (China, I'm looking at YOU), etc. In fact, if I were to travel only to countries where I agree with most of their government's actions, my choices would be very limited indeed.

 

As I posted on another board here recently:

 

"I travel to learn about the world -- to learn things you cannot just learn by reading about them in books or seeing them on television. I have found, in the course of visiting various countries, that most people in those countries are just ordinary people like anyone else -- trying to make a living, worried about the future, perhaps proud of their business or their children....

 

I've also found that when I have visited a country, I care more about that country, read more about it, and follow it more in the news. Thus I am better able to formulate and express an opinion about its current events.

 

Finally, I am what I guess could be called an "armchair archaeologist and historian". I live in constant fear that many of the places/things I want to visit will either be closed to me (as has happened in Libya) or will get destroyed (like the Bamayan Buddhas in Afghanistan). If I get the chance to travel somewhere, I will. I'm so glad I followed that philosophy and visited Syria a few years ago.... Did I agree with what their government was doing at the time? Not at all. Did I get to see areas that have now been destroyed by their civil war? You bet. "

 

Yet again, you are the warm, kind, thoughtful voice of reason. Thank you for this post.

 

Kate

[Randyk47]

It's my humble opinion -- which I'm sure others will not agree with -- that HAL's job is to keep passengers safe, based on current knowledge. This would include taking into consideration any higher-level travel warnings from relevant government state departments or other gov't directives.

 

Absent such warnings or directives prohibiting or strongly discouraging travel, it should be an individual decision as to whether to spend one's travel dollars in Russia or elsewhere.

 

Other countries have abysmal human rights records and are indulging in land grabs via misguided imperialistic tendencies (China, I'm looking at YOU), etc. In fact, if I were to travel only to countries where I agree with most of their government's actions, my choices would be very limited indeed.

 

As I posted on another board here recently:

 

"I travel to learn about the world -- to learn things you cannot just learn by reading about them in books or seeing them on television. I have found, in the course of visiting various countries, that most people in those countries are just ordinary people like anyone else -- trying to make a living, worried about the future, perhaps proud of their business or their children....

 

I've also found that when I have visited a country, I care more about that country, read more about it, and follow it more in the news. Thus I am better able to formulate and express an opinion about its current events.

 

Finally, I am what I guess could be called an "armchair archaeologist and historian". I live in constant fear that many of the places/things I want to visit will either be closed to me (as has happened in Libya) or will get destroyed (like the Bamayan Buddhas in Afghanistan). If I get the chance to travel somewhere, I will. I'm so glad I followed that philosophy and visited Syria a few years ago.... Did I agree with what their government was doing at the time? Not at all. Did I get to see areas that have now been destroyed by their civil war? You bet. "

 

Beautifully said . I could not agree more .

 

A second for a thoughtful posting, well done and captures our travel and cruising decisions. I had promised Mrs. K our next cruise would include a stop in St Petersburg as she's kind of an amateur historian with a lot of interest in Czarist Russia. We've only barely started to research our choices and opportunities so it's not like we're booked or fully committed at this point. We do have a little different situation in that Mrs. K works for the government and her foreign travel has to be reviewed and approved. Department of State warnings and advisories notwithstanding she may be barred from visiting Russia so the decision may be taken out of our hands regardless of our desire or personal decision on whether we think it is safe or not. A couple of years ago she was barred from visiting Egypt well before the regular citizens were advised not to visit so it happens.

[Viesczy]

Putin positions himself as a hero, anything done to financially "hurt" him will only hurt the masses and he'll then position himself as a hero victim.

 

Sadly financial actions do not negatively impact a despot, only the people. Despots aren't taken down from the outside but from the inside, and typically not with votes.

 

Derek

[iancal]

If you decided to boycott undemocratic countries, and those democratic countries that supported or financially propped up many of those undemocratic countries, then your list of countries to boycott would grow exponentially. It would probably include most 'western' nations-including mine.

Edited April 16, 2014 by iancal