Flying to Europe via Canada (more affordable business class option)

[kangforpres]

Hi Everyone-

 

A co-worker gave me this idea since Business class fares to Europe from Canada are much cheaper than originating in the US. It looks like it's totally legal judging but what I've read on Canadian Gov't. web sites. Here's the plan:

 

1. Purchase 2 separate tickets, the first gets us to Toronto RT from the US using airline miles (meaning virtually free).

 

2. The second ticket I purchase RT from Toronto to our destinations in Europe which on average are $2k cheaper for each ticket than then flying from the US in Business class.

 

We return to the US from Canada on the RT miles ticket I got to enter Canada to meet my Business class flight to Europe.

 

It looks like US citizens have 24 hours to transit in and out of Canada with no restrictions they have to have a passport a and a confirmed ticket to your 3rd country destination. You have to stay in the passenger transit area until your connecting flight boards, and of course claim your bags and re-check them.

 

It involves another stop and longer travel times but looks to be a real money saver for those of us who would be tortured fitting into a coach seat for long-haul flights. (I'm 6'5", 285lbs)

 

Tell me what you think, especially you Canadians.

 

-Paul

Edited August 15, 2014 by kangforpres

[PathfinderEss]

Sounds like a good plan to me.:)

You need to be aware of Canada's very high airport taxes, though. Could end up not being much of a savings.

Edited August 15, 2014 by PathfinderEss

[RJ2002]

Just be aware this is always a risk in traveling on separate PNRs (tickets) if you have delays. If you are on a single ticket, the carrier will ensure you make it to your final destination if you misconnect. In the case of separate tickets, your connecting carrier has no obligation to put you on a later flight if you don't make your connection. You might have to pay for a new ticket.

 

If you do decide to do this, be sure to allow PLENTY of time for your connection.

[Fouremco]

I'm just very surprised to hear that you can do it cheaper flying out of Canada. Usually it's the other way around, and there is a lot of Canadians who drive into the States to fly from there.

[tooleman56]

Seems you're right. Just did a random Expedia search for non-stop, business class fares on our upcoming travel dates. Difference was $1,700 flying Toronto-Rome versus New York-Rome.

By the way, 6'5'', 280. You ever play football?

[comcox]

If you have a passport, there should be no restrictions on how long you stay in Canada, except for the 6 months in one year rule. And if you are going to Europe you have to have a passport anyway. I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the 24 hour restriction, unless that applies to how long you can stay within the airport or something.

 

Like a previous poster mentioned, do be careful traveling on two separate tickets. If I were to do this, I would fly into Canada day before my flight to Europe and stay over to be sure things went smoothly.

[LHT28]

I do not understand the restrictions either

You would have to claim your bags & check in with the new carrier possibly in a a different terminal

I would arrive early or stay overnight for the flight to Europe

[RJ2002]

Like a previous poster mentioned, do be careful traveling on two separate tickets. If I were to do this, I would fly into Canada day before my flight to Europe and stay over to be sure things went smoothly.

 

When we have had to do separate tickets, it is usually because we had business class award seats from a US gateway city, yet award seats from our home airport (LAS) to the gateway were not available. You can't mix an award seat and a revenue seat in a single PNR. We usually allow at least 3-4 hours for a domestic connection when we have separate PNRs, and ideally will have identified a backup carrier that could still get us to the international gateway if our original flight was outright cancelled. With its point-to-point flying strategy, Southwest is often times a good backup.

 

In the case of the OP, since you are presumably purchasing 2 separate revenue tickets, you might be able to cobble them together into a single reservation using one of the major internet travel sites, or by calling a travel agent. That way, both flights would be on the same PNR, which would then protect you in case of misconnects.

 

In any case, if you're flying business class from your international gateway, at least you'll be able to use the airline's lounge for a more comfortable wait during your layover. :)

[mjjden]

We have always flown out of Toronto for overseas flights because you usually can get a direct flight to your European destination and if we fly out of Detroit, the times I wanted to fly, we had to step down in New York, Paris, or Munich and is frequently cheaper.

 

If we want to fly within the US or parallel flights ie Detroit Seattle as opposed to Toronto Vancouver, then flying out of Detroit is significantly cheaper!

Edited August 15, 2014 by mjjden

[iancal]

We live in Canada. We have been travelling quite a bit lately. We find that flights to Europe and to SE Asia are in fact less expensive from Canada-especially this summer to Europe.

 

We find that flight to US destinations are definitely cheaper if you fly out of the US-but the price difference is not as large as it used to be (at one time it cost us double to fly return to FLL from Vancouver vs. flying from Seattle). We find flights within Europe and within SE Asia much, much cheaper than either similar length/time routes in Canada or USA.

Edited August 15, 2014 by iancal

[kangforpres]

Yes, I'm thinking about arriving in Canada a day early, we have never been to Toronto. Our US routing would be SFO/VCE/IST/SFO. I've even found leaving from YVR (Vancouver) there is a sizable discount then from leaving SFO.

 

Lufthansa is adding Premium Economy to all of the long haul flights and should be finished by next summer our cruise is 09-26-15. This should bring Premium Economy seats down in price with the new competition in the market with BA, AF.

 

Sometimes Air France offers Premium Economy for only about 75% more than a coach fare, where as Business is always 3x -4x more than coach.

 

I know I would be comfortable in a Premium Economy seat, but the are not lie flats, it's kind of like comparing a Veranda cabin to a Neptune Suite. Sure we all can live in a Veranda just fine, but you can really live in a Neptune, it's bigger than most NYC apartments.

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

Edited August 15, 2014 by kangforpres

[taranch]

Kangforpres you have given me a great opportunity to share my Toronto Pearson International Airport Travelers Assistance Volunteer experience on CC! I am at the airport a minimum of once a week in our booth. I see many cancelled US flights every week, and end up booking hotels for many folks who have missed a flight or suffered a flight cancellation.

So my advice to you is to fly into Toronto the day before your Europe outbound flight (as also mentioned by other posters) and use a bit of that money you saved on the flight for a nice hotel room in the airport area. Maybe do the same on your return just to be safe. Most of the mid to high end chains have properties within a short distance of the airport, all with complimentary shuttle service.

Another consideration is that we have 2 terminals, connected by some serious walking and a monorail. If you can get in and out via the same terminal that will reduce your travel aggravation considerably!

You are not likely to encounter ice storms during months when you would be flying to Europe for a cruise however Pearson is regularly subjected to thunderstorms which cause massive delays and cancellations!

Best of luck with whatever plan you end up making!

[taranch]

OK so now I see your destinations I will chime in again. You are clearly a seasoned and knowledgeable traveler, so you may already have looked at the Air Canada flights. Looks like you might get non-stop both ways Venice/Istanbul, and also looks like the aircraft have Premium Economy class as well as Business.

Cheers!

[kangforpres]

Yes, familiarizing myself with the Pearson airport neighborhood might very well be in my future. Especially since Turkish Airlines seems to offering really attractive fares to the parts of Europe we are going to, and they have a great reputation for service.

 

I could also use some hotel points for Pearson pre/post airport hotel fly to Europe for a cruise via Toronto scheme I'm working on.

 

 

-Paul

Edited August 15, 2014 by kangforpres

[cruising cockroach]

Just wondering if you have checked sample prices for SFO-VCE/IST-SFO on AC's website? The 25,000 miles or so + taxes/fees have some value and may not be worth using on a transboder.

 

Just be aware that some of AC's business class cabins/seats are not as nice as others. If you can route YVR-Europe-YVR, it'll be more comfortable than YYZ-Europe and you'll be flying more long-haul BC.

[solocanadian]

Sounds like a good plan to me.:)

You need to be aware of Canada's very high airport taxes, though. Could end up not being much of a savings.

All Canadian airlines must publish all taxes in prices. Therefore there are no hidden costs other than for food, pillows, etc.

[kangforpres]

Yes, AC has non-stops to and from, plus Turkish has a non-stop from IST. And they are both Star Alliance members which is handy since for better or worse I've been wedded to United since 1989, not by choice but more by necessity, I've always seem to live next to a United Hub.

 

-Paul

[Alberta Quilter]

Therefore there are no hidden costs other than for food, pillows, etc.

 

This is true for economy seats but there aren't any additional costs for food, pillows, ear buds, etc. in business class.

[LHT28]

If you just want to stay near the airport I recommend the Alt hotel ..nothing fancy but a short trip on the Link system

http://toronto.althotels.ca/en

also the Sheraton is a short walk from Terminal 3

http://www.torontopearson.com/en/link/#

Other hotels have free shuttles in the area

If you want to see some of Toronto then a taxi or bus ride away

 

http://www.torontopearson.com/Flights.aspx#

 

Enjoy whatever you decide

 

Lyn

[POA1]

Kangforpres you have given me a great opportunity to share my Toronto Pearson International Airport Travelers Assistance Volunteer experience on CC! I am at the airport a minimum of once a week in our booth.......

Best of luck with whatever plan you end up making!

 

Thanks for this information. Very helpful. We've only been to Toronto as a destination airport, never just passing through.

[Lizzie68]

Nice to hear there is something cheaper in Canada than the US, for a change. Though I have to say the absolute worst flying experience I ever had was at Pearson, connecting to the US. In comparison, the US security guys were a ray of sunshine!

[sapper1]

Connecting through Pearson TO flying to the US was an absolute nightmare for us in April. They had instituted a new system to streamline the process and nobody had a clue what they were doing. It was mass chaos. By the time we actually were cleared to proceed to the customs line and then security we felt like we had been through a wringer.

 

Once we actually got to Customs they couldn't have been nicer.

The US customs guy asked me how my day had been so far and I told him he really didn't want to know. He agreed and added" it's not your fault".

 

Unfortunately we had already booked our upcoming Dec flight to Fort Lauderdale through Pearson. We will just have to suck it up and hope the bugs have been ironed out of the new system. We have booked next April through Montreal.

 

The new system does not require you to pick up your luggage. You just go to a kiosk in the pre customs area and scan your boarding pass. Then you wait for your name to appear on a giant board. Then you line up for clearance to get into the actual holding pen for customs. Customs have a picture of your luggage on their screen and can call up the bags for inspection if they wish. After that you do security.

 

Sounds simple but a lot of boarding passes would not scan so there was another line up for those people to clear before they could get into the pre customs lineup.

After an hour our names had not appeared on the board even though our passes had scanned. We had to get into the line for unscanned passes to get our pass initialled. This entitled us to get into the line to bypass the pre customs line.

We finally got into the customs area and saw it was like Disney lineups. Just when you think you are getting somewhere you enter another packed room.

 

All in all the process from getting off the plane to clearing customs and security took two hours.

[kazu]

Just wondering if you have checked sample prices for SFO-VCE/IST-SFO on AC's website? The 25,000 miles or so + taxes/fees have some value and may not be worth using on a transboder.

 

Just be aware that some of AC's business class cabins/seats are not as nice as others. If you can route YVR-Europe-YVR, it'll be more comfortable than YYZ-Europe and you'll be flying more long-haul BC.

 

I'm a little confused by this post. YVR is going to be using Air Canada Rouge down the road as they are doing for Rome and Barcelona and a couple of other spots right now out of YYZ, maybe that is what this refers to?

 

My experience is that as long as you can avoid Air Canada Rouge, business class is just fine out of YYZ. Yes, some have those 'blue' lie down seats and others not. They both have pros and cons but they are all comfortable and let's be honest, you are not getting much sleep with the time change to Europe. In fact, rather than do Air Canada Rouge we are stopping in Munich on the way down and then connecting with Lufthanza. Like wise on the way home.

 

If we can pull off business class with our Aeroplan, we happily do it.

Edited August 15, 2014 by kazu

[Fouremco]

Connecting through Pearson TO flying to the US was an absolute nightmare for us in April. They had instituted a new system to streamline the process and nobody had a clue what they were doing. It was mass chaos. By the time we actually were cleared to proceed to the customs line and then security we felt like we had been through a wringer.

 

Once we actually got to Customs they couldn't have been nicer.

The US customs guy asked me how my day had been so far and I told him he really didn't want to know. He agreed and added" it's not your fault".

 

Unfortunately we had already booked our upcoming Dec flight to Fort Lauderdale through Pearson. We will just have to suck it up and hope the bugs have been ironed out of the new system. We have booked next April through Montreal.

 

The new system does not require you to pick up your luggage. You just go to a kiosk in the pre customs area and scan your boarding pass. Then you wait for your name to appear on a giant board. Then you line up for clearance to get into the actual holding pen for customs. Customs have a picture of your luggage on their screen and can call up the bags for inspection if they wish. After that you do security.

 

Sounds simple but a lot of boarding passes would not scan so there was another line up for those people to clear before they could get into the pre customs lineup.

After an hour our names had not appeared on the board even though our passes had scanned. We had to get into the line for unscanned passes to get our pass initialled. This entitled us to get into the line to bypass the pre customs line.

We finally got into the customs area and saw it was like Disney lineups. Just when you think you are getting somewhere you enter another packed room.

 

All in all the process from getting off the plane to clearing customs and security took two hours.

Have you considered routing through Ottawa? There are fewer daily direct flights to Fort Lauderdale, but pre-clearance is quick and easy, particularly with NEXUS. I've no idea what the pricing difference would be, if any, but the increased convenience might be worth considering.

[iancal]

There are a few huge downfalls to Aeroplan reward tickets in Canada.

 

The first is the excessive fuel surcharge. IF you book an Aeroplan reward ticket from Canada to Europe, the fees will be approx. $600. per return ticket. Not a good use of points on a 60,000 point economy seat when we could buy it retail for $1000. or less. Roughly $450. of this is fuel surcharge. It used to be that we got around this by booking Lufthansa (which we prefer) but now the fuel surcharge is included on reward tickets on Lufthansa. The only compensating factor is that you can, and we usually do, book open jaw on an Aeroplan reward ticket. So, we would fly to London for a few days. Then fly to say, Rome. And then fly home from Rome. All for the same points requirement.

 

 

You can get around it by flying on United, from Canada to a US hub. Which is exactly what we are doing next month when we fly to Vienna. The price of our reward ticket is cut by more than half when we do this. BUT, if we were to leave from say, Seattle, on a United reward ticket from Aeroplan, the fee would be about $90, even lower. But, we were told by someone at Aeroplan that they are looking to close this bug and also charge a fuel surcharge for United flights.

 

This fuel surcharge is a straight cash grab and greatly lessens the value of the points in many instances.

 

What really bothers us on Aeroplan reward tickets is how difficult it is to get a business class reward seat for the entire journey AND the fact that Aeroplan charges more admin fees for a business class reward than they do for an economy seat award. We are slowly weaning ourselves off Aeroplan and Aeroplan based bank credit cards in favour of other travel cards from Capital One.

Edited August 15, 2014 by iancal