Dining room policy-I don't get it

[Cruzin Terri]

Why would HAL need to offer hat storage? He's not coming from outdoors, he's coming to the dining room from either his stateroom or another location on the ship.

Terri

[Boytjie]

I think there is a slight difference between discrimination and social etiquette ;)

 

Now social etiquette does change with time but I think a free-for-all, do-whatever-you-like society could be pretty unpleasant.

[pmd98052]

I think there is a slight difference between discrimination and social etiquette ;)

 

Well you wouldn't think so given how much people fought against many of those changes. They would destroy the world as we know it many said! Lots of folks stood on the wrong side of history in those debates and are still alive today. I wonder how they feel?

 

So a hat doesn't seem a big deal to me in comparison ;-) I fully accept others feel its terribly rude. Its all part of the richness of life. Lets move on. :)

Edited October 3, 2014 by pmd98052

[Folk Singer]

I recently returned from a terrific Alaska cruise on the Amsterdam. On, I believe, the 2nd or 3rd night, (not formal), we went to the dining room dressed very nicely. I had on slacks, a nice shirt and a very nice looking wool flat cap.(not a ball cap) After we ordered, the dining room manager came over and politely asked me to remove my hat. I was a little surprised at this, but, I did as he asked. Then I pointed out to him many people around us dressed in jeans, t-shirts, and sneakers, and asked him about that. His answer was that the dress code is very hard to enforce. HUH?? It wasn't that hard to enforce their hat code (about which I have never seen anything) I wasn't upset or anything, and I really don't care how other people dress in the dining room. The whole thing just seemed odd to me. Any comments or opinions?

 

 

Wearing a hat at the Table was a NO,No. In my household and still is.

[Folk Singer]

Your post points out exactly why a dress code (or any other cruise policy) needs to be enforced 100%. The minute you let some people get by, others think it is OK as well, so they do as they wish. Soon your policy is out the window.

 

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Hear,Hear.

[Folk Singer]

Even when my son's friends would come over to dinner as teenagers they were told to remove their hats at the table if they hadn't been taught the manners at home.

 

good for you. the right thing to do.

[Folk Singer]

After getting an earfull during basic military training 20 years ago you quickly learn wearing any head dress in a dining hall or mess hall is a huge no no, military or civilian establishment.

 

 

Had it been the Legion would have been free drinks all round on the hat wearer.

[Retired 07]

Most people here have totally misunderstood the point of my original post. I was not looking for justification or an argument about wearing a hat in the dining room. I was only pointing out the inconsistency of the enforcement of the dress code.

[RuthC]

I was only pointing out the inconsistency of the enforcement of the dress code.

Adults with manners self-enforce. They know the rules of etiquette , and follow them without argument.

 

Sometimes people do get away with breaking those rules, but that's no reason for others to do the same. You got caught, and knew enough to comply when asked to do so.

[DaveOKC]

Most people here have totally misunderstood the point of my original post. I was not looking for justification or an argument about wearing a hat in the dining room. I was only pointing out the inconsistency of the enforcement of the dress code.

 

I think we all got your point by now. Lets end this topic.......

[cbr663]

The irony is that a thread discussing the topic of manners and etiquette is filled with comments that are less than courteous. This thread reminds me of the quote, "the test of good manners is to be patient with the bad ones."

[Boytjie]

Well you wouldn't think so given how much people fought against many of those changes. They would destroy the world as we know it many said! Lots of folks stood on the wrong side of history in those debates and are still alive today. I wonder how they feel?

 

So a hat doesn't seem a big deal to me in comparison ;-) I fully accept others feel its terribly rude. Its all part of the richness of life. Lets move on. :)

 

I grew up and lived in South Africa so I have a very good idea what the difference is between discrimination and social etiquette. ;)

 

While people did argue that ending racial segregation would be "the end of the world", I think few argue that breaking social etiquette would also do so.

[Boytjie]

Most people here have totally misunderstood the point of my original post. I was not looking for justification or an argument about wearing a hat in the dining room. I was only pointing out the inconsistency of the enforcement of the dress code.

 

 

Well, everyone here knows that it is consistently inconsistent. :D

[cbr663]

Adults with manners self-enforce. They know the rules of etiquette , and follow them without argument.

 

Sometimes people do get away with breaking those rules, but that's no reason for others to do the same. You got caught, and knew enough to comply when asked to do so.

 

I don't see this as an instance of "getting caught". The OP shared a recent experience in which he experienced discrimination on a HAL cruise. The OP was treated differently than others and was given a poor excuse for the discrimination. This incident would also leave me feeling less than enamored.

[nana541]

I don't see this as an instance of "getting caught". The OP shared a recent experience in which he experienced discrimination on a HAL cruise. The OP was treated differently than others and was given a poor excuse for the discrimination. This incident would also leave me feeling less than enamored.

 

Discrimination???? Really! Because he neglected to remove his hat and was asked to do so.....

 

Don't think that comes near to any definition of Discrimination!

 

Good Grief

[sail7seas]

I don't see this as an instance of "getting caught". The OP shared a recent experience in which he experienced discrimination on a HAL cruise. The OP was treated differently than others and was given a poor excuse for the discrimination. This incident would also leave me feeling less than enamored.

 

 

Discrimination? That's a bit of an overstatement, I would say.

It is likely others (though perhaps not all) were spoken to about their inappropriate dress in that MDR either that night or others. There is no

way OP would know how many others were spoken to.

[pmd98052]

Not sure what you'd call it if not discrimination? Random? Racial profiling? Bad luck?

 

HAL should either enforce the dress code for all or not at all - it is truly bizarre to selectively enforce it.

 

And that said this isn't really even selective enforcement - HAL's dress code says nothing about hats. As folks have pointed out this comes down to social etiquette and nothing to do with HAL.

 

If the guy was drunk and causing a disturbance stepping in to enforce "social etiquette" might be needed but not sure we need selective enforcement of social etiquette that isn't disturbing anyone.

 

Perhaps the dinning room manager could step in and ask those eating with their mouths open and talking with their mouths full to stop as well - hell I've seen way too much of that personally! Where does HAL stop? I think lots of folks here are big supporters of a nanny state! :)

Edited October 3, 2014 by pmd98052

[LMaxwell]

To ask one person to meet a certain standard and yet not ask another to meet the same standard, at the same time, in the same setting, is in fact discrimination. The Maitre D' discriminately applied the policy to some guests, and not all.

[cbr663]

Let's put the incident in a different context. Suppose you are returning from a port in which you were on a wine tour. You know that you will have to pay corkage on the bottles of wine that you wish to bring on board and enjoy.

 

You watch as the passengers in front of you, all on the same wine tour and all carrying wine, walk right on board and are not asked to pay corkage. Your turn comes and you are asked to step aside and pay corkage. When you ask why, and explain that you watched all these other passengers step on board and not pay corkage, the reply is that it is difficult to enforce the corkage rules.

 

I have to wonder how many would merely pay the corkage, chalk it up to just getting caught and then do nothing more about the treatment?

 

That is the problem when people decide to arbitrarily enforce the rules - they discriminate against some by treating them differently. It naturally leaves one wondering why I am being signalled out while others are not. The employee attempting to enforce the rule looses all credibility and the passenger is left feeling confused and suspect. A losing situation all around.

[POA1]

Arbitrary or selective enforcement is not discrimination. If a policy was only enforced on a specific class or group, and not on anyone else, it might - possibly - rise to the level of discrimination. Seeing discrimination everywhere does a disservice to groups who are actually discriminated against.

[sail7seas]

To ask one person to meet a certain standard and yet not ask another to meet the same standard, at the same time, in the same setting, is in fact discrimination. The Maitre D' discriminately applied the policy to some guests, and not all.

 

 

 

Small factual correction just to keep things accurate.

HAL does not have Maitre d's. They have Dining Room Managers.

 

[sherryf]

To ask one person to meet a certain standard and yet not ask another to meet the same standard, at the same time, in the same setting, is in fact discrimination. The Maitre D' discriminately applied the policy to some guests, and not all.

 

The "standard" is that hats should not be worn in the MDR. The OP was the only one wearing a hat, so he was the only one asked to comply with the standard. This is not discrimination. If there were many people wearing hats and the OP was the only one asked to remove his, then it would have been discrimination.

 

Jeans, etc. are a whole different issue, and not the one being addressed here. The Maitre d' apparently chooses to enforce the standard of not wearing hats but not the standard of not wearing jeans.

[popcan]

You should have claimed it was a religious hat.

 

Do they ask Jews to remove their yarmulke?

 

 

Key thing to remember is its for religious reasons. Seems to be the way to get around any "law" folks don't like these days so just say that in the future ;-)

 

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Why ever would anyone claim that if it is not true? That would be lying, plain and simple, in order to gimmick the outcome using the honest basis of others.

 

It's disturbing that someone might think that's ok.

 

Just my opinion.

Edited October 3, 2014 by popcan

[Lizzie68]

I don't see this as an instance of "getting caught". The OP shared a recent experience in which he experienced discrimination on a HAL cruise. The OP was treated differently than others and was given a poor excuse for the discrimination. This incident would also leave me feeling less than enamored.

 

I didn't see a post by the OP saying that others wearing hats were not asked to remove them. So where is the discrimination?

[innlady1]

Speaking as a 50 year old, we were taught the whole hat etiquette thing as kids. Was there some kind of a lull before and after my age group? ;)

 

http://www.emilypost.com/everyday-manners/common-courtesies/479-hats-off-the-who-what-when-where-of-the-hat

 

This is how we were brought up, too. In this instance, it is poor manners to wear a hat indoors...I see a lot of younger people wearing hats indoors and it has the same effect as "chalk on a blackboard".