Healthcare worker possibly exposed to Ebola, sailing on Carnival ship

[LMaxwell]

So day 19 no symptoms. Ok she got on ship 5 days ago. So day 14? Was told to monitor for 21 days but still selfish and foolish enough to go on a ship. And what if her symptoms HAD flared up during the cruise? Then what? oh that's right big time nightmare. Stupid decision on health workers part.

[4cats4me]

You are right he wasn't treated here. He was mistreated

 

 

 

Seems to me that our citizens are the ones being mistreated due to him bringing us this insidious and deadly disease

[Clydesmom7865]

Just heard on the news this morning about a passenger on a Carnival ship who was a nurse in the hospital in Dallas and handled specimens from the man who died. She and her husband still went on their cruise and she now has quarantined herself and the husband to their cabin and contacted CDC because she is showing symptoms of Ebola. Please folks, if you have been in contact with ANYONE who has this disease, don't go on a cruise.

 

There is so much wrong with this statement it is difficult to know where to start.

 

First the passenger isn't a nurse she is a lab technologist and her exposure would have been far less than those who provided direct care to the patient who did actually die from Ebola.

 

They went on their cruise because at the time the CDC cleared her to travel. NOT because of some nefarious desire to infect anyone.

 

She has NEVER shown any signs of Ebola. She and her spouse voluntarily agreed to quarantine after the CDC contacted them and Carnival when their recommendations on travel changed. AT NO TIME has she shown any signs of being ill.

 

PLEASE folks find out the facts before you create more unnecessary hysteria.

[MizDemeanor]

Seems to me that our citizens are the ones being mistreated due to him bringing us this insidious and deadly disease

 

You believe he was treated with the same care as Brantley? Who brought it here too? And the woman who brought it here with permission too???

[LMaxwell]

There is so much wrong with this statement it is difficult to know where to start.

 

First the passenger isn't a nurse she is a lab technologist and her exposure would have been far less than those who provided direct care to the patient who did actually die from Ebola.

 

They went on their cruise because at the time the CDC cleared her to travel. NOT because of some nefarious desire to infect anyone.

 

She has NEVER shown any signs of Ebola. She and her spouse voluntarily agreed to quarantine after the CDC contacted them and Carnival when their recommendations on travel changed. AT NO TIME has she shown any signs of being ill.

 

PLEASE folks find out the facts before you create more unnecessary hysteria.

Did she not get in a cruise during the 22 day period she was directed to self monitor? What if symptoms had developed on the ship? Then what?

 

CDC guidelines were not stringent enough, but they didn't tell her to go on a confined cruise ship with basic medical facilities to foreign ports! Plain old dumb decision. Bet she didn't have travel insurance and didn't want to lose the money.

[4cats4me]

You believe he was treated with the same care as Brantley? Who brought it here too? And the woman who brought it here with permission too???

 

There was no more ZMapp left at that point in the U.S. to give him.

THAT is why he didn't receive it. He received another experimental drug instead. He also intentionally lied to authorities in Liberia stating that he had not been around Ebola infected persons, and we all know that's a lie.

Oh, and your reference to the other two who "brought" it here, they were in a controlled environment in a hospital that was equipped to deal with Ebola.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Host Walt

[gek]

So day 19 no symptoms. Ok she got on ship 5 days ago. So day 14? Was told to monitor for 21 days but still selfish and foolish enough to go on a ship. And what if her symptoms HAD flared up during the cruise? Then what? oh that's right big time nightmare. Stupid decision on health workers part.

 

She was a lab worker who handled a sample, presumably after taking all appropriate precautions. She had no direct contact with the patient. Under these circumstances I'd say she would have judged her chances of being infected to be virtually nil. She probably handles the samples of other patients with more infectious diseases on a daily basis. Should she never be allowed on a cruise ship?

Edited October 18, 2014 by gek

[LMaxwell]

She was a lab worker who handle a sample, presumably after taking all appropriate precautions. She had no direct contact with the patient. Under these circumstances I'd say she would have judged her chances of being infected to be virtually nil.

She still embarked before the 21 day self check period was up. She knew the risks and decided her vacation was too important to miss. How is her choice (and it was HER) defensible? What happened to some common sense and personal accountability? What would have happened if symptoms popped up? You have the Carnival Petri Dish floating just off Galveston unable to port or disembark people...and then what? Seriously an honest question

[gek]

She still embarked before the 21 day self check period was up. She knew the risks and decided her vacation was too important to miss. How is her choice (and it was HER) defensible? What happened to some common sense and personal accountability? What would have happened if symptoms popped up? You have the Carnival Petri Dish floating just off Galveston unable to port or disembark people...and then what? Seriously an honest question

 

The CDC did not tell her not to travel. They just said self-monitor for symptoms. Based on her expertise as a lab-worker and probable experience with dealing with infectious disease samples everyday she evaluated the risk as virtually non-existent. When the CDC changed their protocols she responded appropriately. I can't see that she has done anything wrong.

[WpgCruise]

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/ebola-vaccine-developed-in-winnipeg-ready-for-human-trials-1.2051601

 

Let's hope it works, and do what we can to avoid the fear mongering, drama and hysterics.

Edited October 18, 2014 by WpgCruise

[MizDemeanor]

http://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/ebola-vaccine-developed-in-winnipeg-ready-for-human-trials-1.2051601

 

Let's hope it works, and do what we can to avoid the fear mongering, drama and hysterics.

 

Let's hope it works is right. Fear mongering, drama and hysterics on Cruise Critic won't kill, but viral epidemics in the world will. It's a good idea to keep that perspective in mind.

[Pushka]

No one really knows how this virus is going to spread.

[K.T.B.]

Time for some facts before some people's heads explode. From the CDC website:

 

When an infection does occur in humans, the virus can be spread in several ways to others. Ebola is spread through direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth) with

 

• blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola
   
  
• objects (like needles and syringes) that have been contaminated with the virus
   
  
• infected animals
   
  
• Ebola is not spread through the air or by water, or in general, by food. However, in Africa, Ebola may be spread as a result of handling bushmeat (wild animals hunted for food) and contact with infected bats. There is no evidence that mosquitos or other insects can transmit Ebola virus. Only mammals (for example, humans, bats, monkeys, and apes) have shown the ability to become infected with and spread Ebola virus.
  

[Tara Jane]

I believe we just don't know enough about this dreadful disease. The authorities are doing what they can but we are all "flying blind"

[yorky]

Never underestimate the ability of a minority of the human population to panic in any given situation, then people wonder why governments hold back information at times. Just go and enjoy your holidays, I'm on holiday in Tunisia in two weeks, that's in northern Africa and there is Ebola the other side of the Sahara so better cancel.

[BayAreaBC]

This is almost certainly an over reaction due to caution.

 

At least cruise prices will likely drop now.

[johhnnyt]

There is so much wrong with this statement it is difficult to know where to start.

 

First the passenger isn't a nurse she is a lab technologist and her exposure would have been far less than those who provided direct care to the patient who did actually die from Ebola.

 

They went on their cruise because at the time the CDC cleared her to travel. NOT because of some nefarious desire to infect anyone.

 

She has NEVER shown any signs of Ebola. She and her spouse voluntarily agreed to quarantine after the CDC contacted them and Carnival when their recommendations on travel changed. AT NO TIME has she shown any signs of being ill.

 

PLEASE folks find out the facts before you create more unnecessary hysteria.

 

100% RIGHT IN WHAT YOU Stated

People need to fact check before they draw conclusions that incorrect

[floridatravelersforlife]

She still embarked before the 21 day self check period was up. She knew the risks and decided her vacation was too important to miss. How is her choice (and it was HER) defensible? What happened to some common sense and personal accountability? What would have happened if symptoms popped up? You have the Carnival Petri Dish floating just off Galveston unable to port or disembark people...and then what? Seriously an honest question

 

The reality is the passengers have committed money and the sickness be damned. How many people are really honest about filling out that health form on embarkation day? Don't you wonder how so much disease gets on the ships?

 

Now if there was a $10,000.00 fine if a pax with the flu, norovirus, colds or ebola boarded the ship, and it was found, maybe that would deter the tendency to overlook the carryon sickness.

 

Alternatively, if Cruise lines would refund tickets based on sickness, that would encourage self disclosure, but that's not going to happened due to profit chasing I would imagine it's more cost effective to scrub and disinfect than return a whole bunch of cruise tickets.

 

We are still booked for cruises next year.

[Hondu]

I wonder if the Carnival Magic has to get special cleaning after the passengers disembark in Galveston and will the next sailing be delayed?

[bighairtexan]

ALthough unlikely, it IS theoretically possible for ebola to be transmitted via mucous membranes. Though sneezing isn't a symptom of ebola, IF the person with a high level of the pathogen in their body did sneeze, it IS possible for it to be absorbed by the mucus membranes (eyes, nose, mouth) of someone else.

 

 

I am a heath care professional and I would be very worried if I had to care for an ebola patient. OTOH I would err on the side of caution if I were w/in the 21 day communicability period but that's just me.

 

This is from the updated CDC pdf:

 

When an infection does occur in humans, there are several ways the virus can be spread to others. These include:

• direct contact with the blood or body fluids (including but not limited to feces, saliva, urine, vomit and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola

• contact with objects (like needles and syringes) that have been contaminated with the blood or body fluids of an infected person or with infected animals

The virus in the blood and body fluids can enter another person’s body through broken skin or unprotected mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth. The viruses that cause Ebola are often spread among families and friends, because they come in close contact with blood or body fluids when caring for ill persons.

 

The entire PDF file is here:

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ebola-factsheet.pdf

 

I live in the DFW area. I'm an RN. I'm not an alarmist but I am concerned.

Yes that lab worker COULD have (and in hindsight should have?) cancelled her cruise but the CDC AT THAT TIME didn't suggest that. Unlike the RN that flew knowing she had a low grade fever, this lab worker was afebrile. Fever IS a symptom of ebola so the nurse that flew was on her way to being symptomatic and did indeed test positive. As far as we know the person on the cruise ship is still asymptomatic.

 

And I DO believe that the Texas Presbyterian Dallas missed the boat on the medical care of Duncan as well as the isolation techniques and equipment for the healthcare workers. The 2 nurses that are ill took care of Duncan the first day… before diagnosis (though by then they had a good idea) and isolation requirements became MUCH more stringent AFTER diagnosis.

 

Also Ebola is a LEVEL 4 pathogen which is mostly just the hemorrhagic fevers. Yes people die of the flu but the vast majority of people who contract influenza are good as new in weeks or even days. MOST DO NOT DIE. Nor do most people die of noro, the cold, TB etc.

 

There are only 4 hospitals (NIH, Emory, Nebraska and Missoula, Montanna) that are fully equipped to handle ebola. And of those hospitals the number of Level 4 isolation beds is anywhere from 8 to 18 depending on staffing etc. TOTAL.

So yes, Texas didn't do as well as one would hope with the initial patient. But it's doubtful if many of the hospitals in the US would be able to do better (outside the 4 mentioned above.) This is still a very steep learning curve for all the hospitals and health care workers in the United States. Unfortunately Mr. Duncan is probably not the last person to fly into the US while infected with ebola.

 

It's a fine line to walk between ignoring the danger and absolute panic.

Edited October 19, 2014 by bighairtexan

[Clydesmom7865]

She still embarked before the 21 day self check period was up. She knew the risks and decided her vacation was too important to miss. How is her choice (and it was HER) defensible? What happened to some common sense and personal accountability? What would have happened if symptoms popped up? You have the Carnival Petri Dish floating just off Galveston unable to port or disembark people...and then what? Seriously an honest question

 

The problem with all your "questions" is they are based on hysteria and "WHAT IF" instead of the actual facts of the situation.

 

This particular health care worker's risk of contracting the disease as part of her job is so small that she presented a greater risk of spreading noro-virus than Ebola on that cruise.

 

You are NEVER going to get a policy that limits the travel of people simply because of their occupation and what MIGHT happen.

 

But to counter your hysterical rantings that might provoke fear in others: had this person started showing symptoms of Ebola they can easily anchor the ship off shore. A hazmat suit can be sent in for the patient in order to evacuate her without further contact with others. The room can be sealed until it can be properly decontaminated.

 

Seriously your imagination is out of control. There were less hysterical fears coming out of people who flew on a closed plane with a nurse who DOES have Ebola now than what is being said in this thread about a passenger who is not showing one symptom of ANY illness let alone Ebola.

[DavidYYC]

This whole Ebola thing is off-the-charts insane.

 

If it wasn't so ludicrous it would be hilarious.

[Murray's Pop]

The problem with all your "questions" is they are based on hysteria and "WHAT IF" instead of the actual facts of the situation.

 

This particular health care worker's risk of contracting the disease as part of her job is so small that she presented a greater risk of spreading noro-virus than Ebola on that cruise.

 

You are NEVER going to get a policy that limits the travel of people simply because of their occupation and what MIGHT happen.

 

But to counter your hysterical rantings that might provoke fear in others: had this person started showing symptoms of Ebola they can easily anchor the ship off shore. A hazmat suit can be sent in for the patient in order to evacuate her without further contact with others. The room can be sealed until it can be properly decontaminated.

 

Seriously your imagination is out of control. There were less hysterical fears coming out of people who flew on a closed plane with a nurse who DOES have Ebola now than what is being said in this thread about a passenger who is not showing one symptom of ANY illness let alone Ebola.

 

Great response!

[Sloop-JohnB]

POST # 121

 

Great post

 

Thanks for sharing and bringing some common sense to this discussion

 

--- --- ---

 

Here is my take, based on a convo I had with Mr Sloop today based on what we have read / learned about Ebola so far

 

We both remarked how the hysteria reminds us of the early days of AIDS... Another disease that is passed onto others thru body fluids. And we commented how crazy the world was in the early days of that Disease...

 

Understandable (the unknown) but at the same time looking back people were horrible in how they treated others, those that had the disease, or may have come in contact with the disease, a really LOW NOTE / SHAMEFUL aspect of modern humanity

 

I pray that Ebola won't go down that road

 

Those who are stricken, or suspected... Should be shown empathy (more so if they work in the Medical or any other Profession that helps people).

 

Trust me, NO ONE goes out and gets sick on their own accord (be it this or a cold) sadly, it is part of our humanity... It just happens

 

We should be more compassionate. Period

 

--- --- ---

 

As for the disease itself, I have decided to frame it in easy to understand terms it seems to be a lot like Rabies

 

In that it can move from mammal to human and back again

 

It moves via "live" organism in body fluids

 

It screws up your blood, organs & brain... Ultimately causing your organs to go into uncontrolable hemorrhage (and you die)

 

I am not in any way scientific... But I do understand the basics of Rabies

 

And it seems to me that there are similarities

 

Rabies is far from gone in our world, but we have found ways to control / contain it... And when it spreads to a human how to treat it

 

I truly believe when it comes to Ebola we can / will do that to.

 

Am I worried / concerned... Yes. But this is not some scifi movie type of unnamed, unknown, uncontrolable virus

 

This is Ebola. We will figure it out the same way we figured out Rabies

 

Cheers!

ps... I think the reason Ebola scares the beejeebees out of people is because of its seriousness / reputation in Africa. Where it is EASILY spread because of the lack of basic human needs... Clean running water - latrines - health & general cleanliness education - lack of Medical Facilities & Personnel. Conditions that most NAs cannot even imagine

 

And don't live with... Thank goodness

 

If there is something good to come out of this horrible situation, may it be that we are shamed into realizing that we can DO MORE for those who have less. Much less... As they live & die everyday with things that we all take for granted, or have the power to change. Our world is a lot smaller than it used to be... The threat won't go away until we come to grips with that reality

Edited October 19, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[Ruthk]

This whole Ebola thing is off-the-charts insane.

 

 

 

David - it won't be so insane when it hits Canada - we are not insulated and it is only a matter of time. Even our Prime Minister today warned Canadians about the potential for the spread of Ebola and that it must not be underestimated.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Host Walt