8 months after booking through RCCL told our B2B violates Jones Act Help needed

[kelkel2]

High speed ferry = 3 hours

Flight = 1 hour

Train = 4 hours

 

Seattle = AMAZING tourist destination with GREAT restaurants and lots to do.

 

Why on earth wouldn't you want to get off in Victoria, go to Seattle, enjoy a fantastic evening there on the cruise line's $$$ prior to your flight home the next day?

 

This is also what I suggest that way you're not missing out on an entire cruise, but only one day of it. That seems like the best suggestion to me. Plus the cruise line is offering to pay for it. It really could't get better than that!

[SuiteTraveler]

Consider staying at these hotels:

Rennaisance - $149

The Edgewater - $179

Marriott Waterfront $179

 

Here's where to make a reservation for dinner:

Space Needle - Sky City

400 Broad Street, Seattle, WA 98109

206.905.2100

http://www.spaceneedle.com/information/

 

want something more casual? Then go here:

Pike Place Chowder

1530 Post Alley, Seattle, WA 98101

206-267-2537

http://www.pikeplacechowder.com

Edited October 27, 2014 by SuiteTraveler

[BaumD]

I'm not sure it is that easy. I think I remember reading there can be a severe penalty to a cruise ship that intentionally and knowingly from the start violates PVSA. The authorities take these violations seriously and my understanding that even in the case of a death while aboard, application must be made for an exception for the violation if the body is removed from the ship at a port along the way. It is not 'automatically' waived.

 

Someone who is more versed than me, hopefully, will address that question.

 

Wouldn't this be a violation of the Jones Act (cargo) vs PVSA (people) ???

[chengkp75]

Wouldn't this be a violation of the Jones Act (cargo) vs PVSA (people) ???

 

Not sure what you're getting at here. The Jones Act has nothing what so ever to do with passenger service. As far as cruise ships are concerned, forget the Jones Act even exists. Sail7 is correct that a cruise line that is found to be knowingly violating the law can be fined additionally, and could in extreme cases be banned from embarking passengers in the US. However, the cruise line will not be able to book the two cruises, once they determine that they violate the PVSA, so the question is moot, since they notified the OP about the violation. Having said that, as I've pointed out, the cruise line can sell the OP a cruise from Vancouver to Victoria to go with the Hawaii to Vancouver cruise. Both sections then do not fall under the PVSA (the first ends in a foreign port, and the second starts in a foreign port and ends in a foreign port).

[chengkp75]

I'm not sure it is that easy. I think I remember reading there can be a severe penalty to a cruise ship that intentionally and knowingly from the start violates PVSA. The authorities take these violations seriously and my understanding that even in the case of a death while aboard, application must be made for an exception for the violation if the body is removed from the ship at a port along the way. It is not 'automatically' waived.

 

Someone who is more versed than me, hopefully, will address that question.

 

You are correct that even disembarkation of a deceased passenger will violate the PVSA. However, it is ALWAYS the cruise line, not the passenger who is fined by CBP. It is only the ticket contract language that allows the cruise line to pass the fine to the passenger. So, in the case of a death, the cruise line generally applies for the waiver, but either the line or the family must present a death certificate to CBP to get a refund of the fine.

[chengkp75]

Consider staying at these hotels:

Rennaisance - $149

The Edgewater - $179

Marriott Waterfront $179

 

Here's where to make a reservation for dinner:

Space Needle - Sky City

400 Broad Street, Seattle, WA 98109

206.905.2100

http://www.spaceneedle.com/information/

 

want something more casual? Then go here:

Pike Place Chowder

1530 Post Alley, Seattle, WA 98101

206-267-2537

http://www.pikeplacechowder.com

 

While I totally agree with you about Seattle, unfortunately, the ship does not dock in Victoria until 7pm, so I think they would be best to stay at a hotel in Victoria, fly out first thing in the morning (6am Alaskan Air to SeaTac), and then just spend the time at SeaTac (boring, I know, and depends on when their flight home is) until their flight to CT.

 

I believe this is a spring repo, so there is plenty of time to book a flight of their choice in order to meet their flight home.

Edited October 27, 2014 by chengkp75

[Algebralovr]

Part of the issue is that the OP has already booked their flights. Their flight leaves SeaTac at 1 pm the day the ship is to dock in Seattle. It gets to Victoria around 6 or 7 pm.

[chengkp75]

Part of the issue is that the OP has already booked their flights. Their flight leaves SeaTac at 1 pm the day the ship is to dock in Seattle. It gets to Victoria around 6 or 7 pm.

 

So they leave the ship the day before their flight in Victoria at 7pm. They fly to Seattle from Victoria at 6am, arriving 6:40. They then kill 5-6 hours at SeaTac. I don't see the problem.

 

And, if I read the OP correctly, Celebrity will pay for the hotel, the air transportation, AND $200pp for airfare change, which wouldn't be needed.

Edited October 27, 2014 by chengkp75

[SuiteTraveler]

While I totally agree with you about Seattle, unfortunately, the ship does not dock in Victoria until 7pm, so I think they would be best to stay at a hotel in Victoria, fly out first thing in the morning (6am Alaskan Air to SeaTac), and then just spend the time at SeaTac (boring, I know, and depends on when their flight home is) until their flight to CT.

 

I believe this is a spring repo, so there is plenty of time to book a flight of their choice in order to meet their flight home.

 

8 or 9 pm flight to SeaTac, get to hotel by 10 or 11 pm, maybe have dinner at the hotel - usually room service is available until midnight...

 

Crown Plaza Seattle Airport $80, free airport shuttle 24x7?

17338 International Boulevard, SeaTac, WA 98188, United States of America

Phone:(206) 248-1000

 

JMO, but I would rather already be IN Seattle the night before my flight, even though it is very easy to get from Victoria to Seattle.

Edited October 27, 2014 by SuiteTraveler

[sail7seas]

What time is your flight out of Seattle? You could disembark in Victoria at 6pm, have them get you a hotel there, take a 6am flight (their expense, you say) to Seattle, arriving at 06:40, which is nearly the same time as the ship arrives. Flight is $180. Hotel $150-190.

 

 

Sounds like a good plan to me :)

 

That is what I would do.

[sail7seas]

Not sure what you're getting at here. The Jones Act has nothing what so ever to do with passenger service. As far as cruise ships are concerned, forget the Jones Act even exists. Sail7 is correct that a cruise line that is found to be knowingly violating the law can be fined additionally, and could in extreme cases be banned from embarking passengers in the US. However, the cruise line will not be able to book the two cruises, once they determine that they violate the PVSA, so the question is moot, since they notified the OP about the violation. Having said that, as I've pointed out, the cruise line can sell the OP a cruise from Vancouver to Victoria to go with the Hawaii to Vancouver cruise. Both sections then do not fall under the PVSA (the first ends in a foreign port, and the second starts in a foreign port and ends in a foreign port).

 

 

Thanks for verifying with this helpful information.

 

[chengkp75]

8 or 9 pm flight to SeaTac, get to hotel by 10 or 11 pm, maybe have dinner at the hotel - usually room service is available until midnight...

 

Crown Plaza Seattle Airport $80, free airport shuttle 24x7?

17338 International Boulevard, SeaTac, WA 98188, United States of America

Phone:(206) 248-1000

 

JMO, but I would rather already be IN Seattle the night before my flight, even though it is very easy to get from Victoria to Seattle.

 

Six of one, half dozen of the other, I just didn't find any flights around 8pm or later that didn't involve multiple stops and looong layovers. The Clipper ferry is only once a day, wrong time, not sure about train, but I think that ties in with the ferry. Early am flight looks like the winner to me.

[grod19]

No idea if this would work but what if after you got to vancouver you crossed the border back into the US, then turned around and headed back to canada for the second leg of the trip? i could argue that you didnt violate the act as you returned to the states between trips, but I am absolutely not an authority on this matter

[BillB48]

No idea if this would work but what if after you got to vancouver you crossed the border back into the US, then turned around and headed back to canada for the second leg of the trip? i could argue that you didnt violate the act as you returned to the states between trips, but I am absolutely not an authority on this matter

 

The salient point in this case is the same ship would be transporting you between two US ports without a distant port stop. What you do in the interim does not have any bearing on the matter.

[crzndeb]

I think Chengkp75 has the best plan, especially since you don't get into Victoria until late. You will still have plenty of daylight to see the sites in Victoria, spend the night and hop that early plane to Seatac. Our airport is actually a pretty nice one, with great places to eat and shops to kill some time.

 

The PVSA problems happen every single year in the spring and fall when ships repo. Unfortunately reps with the cruise lines are never trained about the law. In this day and age of technology, one would thing an error or flag would pop up when the legs are booked, and therefore wouldn't be allowed.

 

Somebody posted this on another board and I saved it. I think for those that don't understand the law, this is pretty clear cut.

 

PVSA

 

The Questionnaire Pay attention to Question #4.

 

Answering "YES" to ALL of the questions below will likely constitute a PVSA violation.

 

1.Will you initially embark in a US port?

 

2.Will your voyage be entirely on the same vessel?

 

3.Is the vessel registered and flagged in a foreign nation?

 

4.Will your final disembarkation be at a different US port than which you initially embarked at (note that this may include previously unplanned disembarkation during the middle of a cruise due to illness/injury/emergency)?

 

5.Will your voyage only include ports within North America (Hawaii included. Aruba, Curacao, and Bonaire excluded)?

[CPT Trips]

None of the plans posted above really help OP. The Vancouver to Seattle cruise is an Alaska itinerary; they need to miss the entire cruise. So they have a week to kill racking up hotel bills and food costs or they incur airline change fees.

 

Seems to me that the cruise line owes them more than is being offered.

[Shmoo here]

None of the plans posted above really help OP. The Vancouver to Seattle cruise is an Alaska itinerary; they need to miss the entire cruise. So they have a week to kill racking up hotel bills and food costs or they incur airline change fees.

 

Seems to me that the cruise line owes them more than is being offered.

 

OP reported:

 

"They also offered to have us disembark at the last stop Victoria and pay for us to transport ourselves to Seattle and they would refund 200 each to pay for a hotel and transportation to Seattle from Victoria and we would only miss one night of the second cruise."

 

So, Celebrity is willing to allow them to do the cruise and debark in Victoria, making it a foreign itinerary cruise (Vancouver to Victoria).

 

I don't understand why they couldn't do the Alaska cruise and get off in Victoria. Can you explain?

[crzndeb]

None of the plans posted above really help OP. The Vancouver to Seattle cruise is an Alaska itinerary; they need to miss the entire cruise. So they have a week to kill racking up hotel bills and food costs or they incur airline change fees.

 

Seems to me that the cruise line owes them more than is being offered.

 

I'm not sure I understand why you think it won't work.

 

The last port after doing Alaska itinerary is Victoria (Canada)....they are being allowed to disembark here, making their B2B cruise from Honolulu to Victoria. Perfectly legal since they will be getting off the ship in Canada.

[CantanaLobo]

None of the plans posted above really help OP. The Vancouver to Seattle cruise is an Alaska itinerary; they need to miss the entire cruise. So they have a week to kill racking up hotel bills and food costs or they incur airline change fees.

 

Seems to me that the cruise line owes them more than is being offered.

 

By getting off in Victoria, it becomes a Vancouver to Victoria cruise for that leg - the B2B becomes Hawaii to Victoria. No PVSA involvement.

[Shmoo here]

Six of one, half dozen of the other, I just didn't find any flights around 8pm or later that didn't involve multiple stops and looong layovers. The Clipper ferry is only once a day, wrong time, not sure about train, but I think that ties in with the ferry. Early am flight looks like the winner to me.

 

Oh, venerable chengkp75, may I prevail upon you to come over to the Celebrity board, where there's another thread started by the same OP. I posted something over there that's being questioned (about more severe penalties if a cruiseline knowingly violates the PVSA).

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=44566004&postcount=46