Cuba - Will Celebrity re-think their Caribbean deployments ?

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Removing politics from the argument, and let's face it, that's not easy, before we look forward to cruise ship calls in Cuba maybe we should consider whether the infrastructure can handle them. I don't claim to be an authority of any kind. All I know comes from a friend who recently was permitted to visit Cuba with an educational group. He related stories about mandatory car pooling to get tourists from one place to another. Sounds crazy right? Check it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchhiking#Cuba He also told about food shortages in restaurants which limited their menus. Does any of this sound enticing?

 

When you debark in Europe, or even in other parts of the Caribbean, scores of modern buses are waiting for you. Is that the case in Cuba? If 5,000, or 2,000 cruise passengers turn up on the dock in Havana, how many 1956 Chevy's are available to transport them?

In time, maybe this will change. I'm certainly not against travel to Cuba. My parents spent their honeymoon there in 1953. They loved it, but that was a long time ago. All I'm saying is, let's not put the 55 year old cart before the horse.

[ECCruise]

Removing politics from the argument, and let's face it, that's not easy, before we look forward to cruise ship calls in Cuba maybe we should consider whether the infrastructure can handle them. I don't claim to be an authority of any kind. All I know comes from a friend who recently was permitted to visit Cuba with an educational group. He related stories about mandatory car pooling to get tourists from one place to another. Sounds crazy right? Check it out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchhiking#Cuba He also told about food shortages in restaurants which limited their menus. Does any of this sound enticing?

 

When you debark in Europe, or even in other parts of the Caribbean, scores of modern buses are waiting for you. Is that the case in Cuba? If 5,000, or 2,000 cruise passengers turn up on the dock in Havana, how many 1956 Chevy's are available to transport them?

In time, maybe this will change. I'm certainly not against travel to Cuba. My parents spent their honeymoon there in 1953. They loved it, but that was a long time ago. All I'm saying is, let's not put the 55 year old cart before the horse.

 

We were in Cuba 2 years ago this month. Found absolutely nothing like what your friend experienced.

 

We traveled in a brand new 55 passenger motor coach, nicer than we've ever had in the US. Have had as nice in Asia, but never in US. Never heard of mandatory car pooling. We ate in both state run restaurants and Paladores (privately owned restaurants) for 11 days, 2 meals a day and never had anything but variety and availability. Yes, Cuban citizens do experience some rationing but in many cases the amounts are very generous (in other cases not so much so).

 

Would a 5000 pax ship work? Heavens no and PLEASE KEEP THEM AWAY. Would a 2000 pax ship work? ~1500 pax ships have been docking in Havana for a while and the infrastructure can handle it. And no, everyone does not want to ride in a 1956 Chevy but believe me there are hundreds and hundreds of them, even if they have been long ago powered by Lada and Toyota powertrains. :)

[Ex-Airbalancer]

We have been to Cuba 6 times , all the resorts are very nice , one of the resort was a Sandals, the rest were Spanish resorts, the same as you would find in Mexico

cayo Lago has baby power sand beaches http://www.cayolargo.net/index.html

[Christine Frances]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/12/17/uscuba_thaw_means_holiday_is_over_for_canadian_tourists_experts_say.html

[Ex-Airbalancer]

You will need travel insurance in enter Cuba

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/cuba-visitors-face-new-medical-insurance-rule-1.910444

[Christine Frances]

You will need travel insurance in enter Cuba

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/cuba-visitors-face-new-medical-insurance-rule-1.910444

 

we have a great annual plan!! We have Medoc with Johnson.ca which supplements DH's Federal Public Service Plan. No reason for Canadians to travel without good Travel insurance lol

Edited December 19, 2014 by Christine Frances

[TravelerThom]

...The companies might be able to start going to Cuba without a change in US law, they would just have to move all of their operations out of the US, stop using US banks, and have their ships stop sailing out of US ports.

I think you overstated your argument considerably. Virtually every airline flying to Cuba (other than Cubana) also flies to the US with no difficulties. There are flights on US airlines from Miami and Tampa on a regular basis, serving people with licensees for Cuban travel. It is hard to believe that these airlines don't have US bank accounts to pay their US employees. Tampa ships about half a billion dollars of goods to Cuba every year. What cannot be currently done is sail from Florida to Cuba with tourists.

 

Thom

[cle-guy]

I think you overstated your argument considerably. Virtually every airline flying to Cuba (other than Cubana) also flies to the US with no difficulties. There are flights on US airlines from Miami and Tampa on a regular basis, serving people with licensees for Cuban travel. It is hard to believe that these airlines don't have US bank accounts to pay their US employees. Tampa ships about half a billion dollars of goods to Cuba every year. What cannot be currently done is sail from Florida to Cuba with tourists.

 

Thom

 

I agree....My question to anyone who says they have to follow US law because they sail from US ports or are HQ'd here, is then why don't they have to pay staff a minimum hourly wage and follow overtime pay requirements too as per US Federal and State law.

 

I think it boils down to ships not having enough people who can legally get off and do shore excursions there, being filled with a vast majority of US citizens when sailing out of ports in Florida.

[pspercy]

We were in Cuba 2 years ago this month. Found absolutely nothing like what your friend experienced.

 

We traveled in a brand new 55 passenger motor coach, nicer than we've ever had in the US. Have had as nice in Asia, but never in US. Never heard of mandatory car pooling. We ate in both state run restaurants and Paladores (privately owned restaurants) for 11 days, 2 meals a day and never had anything but variety and availability. Yes, Cuban citizens do experience some rationing but in many cases the amounts are very generous (in other cases not so much so).

 

 

What about healthcare ? One hears everything from "best in the world" to the exact opposite.

 

What's it like for visitors versus locals?

[Aquahound]

I agree....My question to anyone who says they have to follow US law because they sail from US ports or are HQ'd here, is then why don't they have to pay staff a minimum hourly wage and follow overtime pay requirements too as per US Federal and State law.

 

I think it boils down to ships not having enough people who can legally get off and do shore excursions there, being filled with a vast majority of US citizens when sailing out of ports in Florida.

 

It's because there is no other reason for a cruise ship (regularly) to visit Cuba than for personal vacationing. Planes are a mode of transportation. Cruise ships are a mode of vacation. Maybe if a ship was chartered by a non-profit, etc group, it could go, but I don't know the details of the law.

 

Feel free to give examples of how that is wrong or doesn't make sense, but it still is what it is.

 

As for the rest of your question ref pay, that has to do with flag of convenience. The 2 issues aren't related. Again, it may not make sense, but it is what it is.

[boscobeans]

It's because there is no other reason for a cruise ship (regularly) to visit Cuba than for personal vacationing. Planes are a mode of transportation. Cruise ships are a mode of vacation. Maybe if a ship was chartered by a non-profit, etc group, it could go, but I don't know the details of the law.

.

 

I have spent many days filing requests and many hours on the phone with our representatives in Cuba as well as agencies that currently provide tours to Cuba which fulfill all the requirements of the US Treasury's Office of Foreign Asset Control (OFAC).

 

In my applications for a permit I detailed the following:

 

1. A Chartered Cruise ship with passenger totals of no more than 600 passengers.

This is the maximum that the tour providers in Cuba can handle over a period of 2-3 days and still meet the educational and social one on one exposure that is required for each passenger. The groups are limited to about 40 per group.

 

2. Permits, visitor passes and Cuban medical insurance would be provided for all passengers on the cruise. (US medical coverage does not include Cuba)

 

3. All passengers would partake in all the daily required programs, which would also provide ample free time to explore Cuba on their own.

 

4. I listed each and every program, all of which are currently approved by the OFAC for visitors to Cuba.

 

5. I included the names of the current Cuba tour providers as well as their brochures.

 

RESULTS... Sorry NO DICE. Response in a nutshell, sounds like a sun and fun vacation..

 

More phone calls to Canada and Havana, more research and documentation showing this venture would be the same as the current tours allowed by the OFAC, the only difference would be the means of transportation.

 

Second response (I don't think the second reviewer read the new application)...

NO DICE. Response in a nutshell, sounds like a sun and fun vacation..

 

I gave up after this and have to admit I will miss having a mojito with the U.S. representative based in Havana. We were going to do a selfie next to Hemingway's statue at his favorite watering hole. LOL

 

Maybe things will change and we can once again cruise to Cuba like they did pre-embargo with ships leaving from New York on a weekly basis for a chance to enjoy our closest neighbor to the south.

 

bosco

[DirtyDawg]

Wow, I guess it would be best if none of the American savages visit.

 

Wouldn't that be nice.:D A wee bit of overreaction there Ma. No Americans just means 330 million less people to compete against for tourist spots.

 

But I am hoping to visit Havana before it gets turned into Nassau 2.0.:eek: I like to visit places that don't have a Dunkin Donuts on almost every corner. That goes for Tim Hortons too, btw.:)

Edited December 20, 2014 by DirtyDawg

[baldercash]

 

But I am hoping to visit Havana before it gets turned into Nassau 2.0.:eek: I like to visit places that don't have a Dunkin Donuts on almost every corner. That goes for Tim Hortons too, btw.:)

 

It will be a long time before it turns into Nassau, I have been there and a Timmies might have made it a little better.

If you are an environmentalist you will enjoy the absence of all paper products, plastic or anything that is disposable. The country is a prison but opening it to America will likely bring about change quicker then embargo has.

 

There is a reason people swim for Miami, here is a picture slide show of Havana.

http://www.businessinsider.com/life-in-havana-cuba-2013-6?op=1

A nice street video

 

The resorts are much safer to stay at then Mexico or Dominican and likely safer then Florida as well.

Edited December 20, 2014 by baldercash

[Ma Bell]

Wouldn't that be nice.:D A wee bit of overreaction there Ma. No Americans just means 330 million less people to compete against for tourist spots.

 

But I am hoping to visit Havana before it gets turned into Nassau 2.0.:eek: I like to visit places that don't have a Dunkin Donuts on almost every corner. That goes for Tim Hortons too, btw.:)

 

Overreaction.... I'm probably one of the few here that isn't overreacting. You won't have to worry about competing with me. I'm very fortunate that I don't need to go anywhere to find sunshine. I don't have a problem with where anyone comes from and as far as I'm concerned one tourist "ruining" a place is just the same as any other regardless of where they come from. We have plenty of tourists from your country who love to come to where we live for the winter and many of them are my dear friends.

[DirtyDawg]

Overreaction.... I'm probably one of the few here that isn't overreacting. You won't have to worry about competing with me. I'm very fortunate that I don't need to go anywhere to find sunshine. I don't have a problem with where anyone comes from and as far as I'm concerned one tourist "ruining" a place is just the same as any other regardless of where they come from. We have plenty of tourists from your country who love to come to where we live for the winter and many of them are my dear friends.

 

Again another overreaction. It's not about you or your friends - it's about the Big Picture.:rolleyes:

[A Sixth?]

Please everyone calm down

 

Andy, our host asked a very timely and real world question

 

Default Cuba - Will Celebrity re-think their Caribbean deployments ?

 

Heck, every cruise company is

 

One of The biggest changes to cruising choices destination-wise may be here shortly, as it was going to sometime anyway.

 

The war is over, enjoy some peace and good-will

Edited December 20, 2014 by A Sixth?

[DirtyDawg]

It will be a long time before it turns into Nassau, YOU HOPE! I have been there and a Timmies might have made it a little better. REALLY, YOU GO TO AN OTHER CULTURE AND WANT TIMMIES RATHER THE LOCAL STUFF? I LOVE TIMMIES IN T.O. OR TIMMINS BUT IN HAVANA? THAT'S LIKE GOING TO SCOTLAND AND ORDERING CANADIAN CLUB!:mad:

 

You are 100% correct the engaging that country will do more for human rights and democracy than a 50 year embargo ever has but that is not the discussion is it?

[baldercash]

REALLY, YOU GO TO AN OTHER CULTURE AND WANT TIMMIES RATHER THE LOCAL STUFF? I LOVE TIMMIES IN T.O. OR TIMMINS BUT IN HAVANA? THAT'S LIKE GOING TO SCOTLAND AND ORDERING CANADIAN CLUB!

 

 

Not sure if you have been there but I have. I am open to all cultures.

I just finished 3 months of travel in Europe and never had the vaguest desire for a Timmies. I actual don't like their coffee but what was offered in Europe was excellent.

 

I am not a flagrant liberal who believes all cultures and culinary offerings are equal.

When I travel I put my surroundings in context and insist on experiencing the local flavour when possible if it does not damage my health and I think I can keep it down.

I have tasted and consumed food and beverages that most would not contemplate and most of it was just horrid.

 

Trust me when I say Miami Cuban food is vastly superior to what you can get on the island of Cuba. Has a lot to do with quality of the produce and proteins as well as how the meat is butchered ( cut ) and it is not aged in Cuba even chicken may not taste like chicken.

If you eat in a tourist restaurant it is not great and what the locals have access to is just sad.

 

Your analogy of Scotch in Scotland does not hold in Cuba.

Edited December 20, 2014 by baldercash

[Ma Bell]

Again another overreaction. It's not about you or your friends - it's about the Big Picture.:rolleyes:

 

I'm sorry you don't seem to get the big picture. It absolutely isn't about me or my friends, it's about attitudes. It remains to be seen what if any changes will occur and how long it will take. There are plenty of good reasons for change just as there are plenty of good reasons not to change.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Ma Bell

[artmc]

Cuba IS open to tourism. It is a popular destination from the UK. As should be clear from Cruise Critic, the USA is not the only travel market in the world.

 

As others may have mentioned, Cuba has long been an inexpensive favourite destination of Canadian tourists as well. In fact, there are already articles appearing in our newspapers that, if U.S. visitors start visiting en masse, prices will definitely go up.

[DirtyDawg]

Overreaction.... I'm probably one of the few here that isn't overreacting. You won't have to worry about competing with me. I'm very fortunate that I don't need to go anywhere to find sunshine. I don't have a problem with where anyone comes from and as far as I'm concerned one tourist "ruining" a place is just the same as any other regardless of where they come from. We have plenty of tourists from your country who love to come to where we live for the winter and many of them are my dear friends.

 

I can only comment on what you write.:rolleyes:

 

 

I'm sorry you don't seem to get the big picture. It absolutely isn't about me or my friends, it's about attitudes...

 

Do you read what you write? Again see above.

 

Anyways, as I wrote earlier in this thread;

 

"As has been said the tourism industry is well developed in Cuba.....

 

....If this goes through it will be boom time for the Cuban economy. The wealth that could be created is enormous."

 

A Win Win wouldn't you say?

 

Happy Holidays!

Edited December 20, 2014 by DirtyDawg

[DirtyDawg]

Not sure if you have been there but I have. I am open to all cultures.

I just finished 3 months of travel in Europe and never had the vaguest desire for a Timmies. I actual don't like their coffee but what was offered in Europe was excellent.

 

I am not a flagrant liberal who believes all cultures and culinary offerings are equal.

When I travel I put my surroundings in context and insist on experiencing the local flavour when possible if it does not damage my health and I think I can keep it down.

I have tasted and consumed food and beverages that most would not contemplate and most of it was just horrid.

 

Trust me when I say Miami Cuban food is vastly superior to what you can get on the island of Cuba. Has a lot to do with quality of the produce and proteins as well as how the meat is butchered ( cut ) and it is not aged in Cuba even chicken may not taste like chicken.

If you eat in a tourist restaurant it is not great and what the locals have access to is just sad.

 

 

Your analogy of Scotch in Scotland does not hold in Cuba.

 

Sorry baldercash, when I referred to Timmies and Scotch I wasn't commenting on the quality but their authenticity. I should have said THAT'S LIKE GOING TO SCOTLAND AND ORDERING CANADIAN CLUB RATHER THAN THE LOCAL SWILL! And believe you me you can get some local swill in Glasgow.;)

 

I'll say it a different way. It will be a sad day indeed if I ever find myself in Havana, sitting in run down outdoor square, sipping a Timmies, munching on KFC and listening to Justin Bieber on the radio! And I like two out of those three :D

 

- just not in Nassau, Havana, Paris etc. etc.

Edited December 20, 2014 by DirtyDawg

[baldercash]

DirtyDawg I must assume if you go to Glasgow you will only eat Haggis and imbibe Irn-bru?

Though deep fried Mars bars are a local specialty as well.

 

Funny I was in Thailand a year ago and I did eat at a KFC, it was suggested to me by a guide.

I was taken back as I did not travel half way around the world to eat KFC which I don't eat at home and I had been enjoying the local street meat offerings.

 

It was very enlightening as the menu did seem familiar though with a few local specialties and it was expensive when compared to local fare but what really amazed us was the chicken.

The chicken was delicious and flavourful not heavy and greasy like what is offered in North America. It was a real eye opener for me as Thai food is clean and light and is cooked quick and fresh. My wife had a sandwich and it was composed of a deboned thigh not some bland breast or a mechanical meat slurry.

So KFC had to modify it's offering to compete with local fare and produce.

There is a disturbing number of Seven Elevens in Thailand as well though their offerings only only vaguely resembles North Americans but decent coffee.

Thai culture and cuisine is under no threat from America.

 

I doubt that will happen in Havana lets hope it can become as vibrant as the Cuban offerings in Miami but I don't think so.

[baldercash]

DirtyDawg I must assume if you go to Glasgow you will only eat Haggis and imbibe Irn-bru?

Though deep fried Mars bars are a local specialty as well.

 

Funny I was in Thailand a year ago and I did eat at a KFC, it was suggested to me by a guide.

I was taken back as I did not travel half way around the world to eat KFC which I don't eat at home and I had been enjoying the local street meat offerings.

 

It was very enlightening as the menu did seem familiar though with a few local specialties and it was expensive when compared to local fare but what really amazed us was the chicken.

The chicken was delicious and flavourful not heavy and greasy like what is offered in North America. It was a real eye opener for me as Thai food is clean and light and is cooked quick and fresh. My wife had a sandwich and it was composed of a deboned thigh not some bland breast or a mechanical meat slurry.

So KFC had to modify it's offering to compete with local fare and produce.

There is a disturbing number of Seven Elevens in Thailand as well though their offerings only vaguely resembles North Americans but decent coffee.

Thai culture and cuisine is under no threat from America.

 

I doubt that will happen in Havana lets hope it can become as vibrant as the Cuban offerings in Miami but I don't think so.

[Ma Bell]

I can only comment on what you write.:rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

Do you read what you write? Again see above.

 

Anyways, as I wrote earlier in this thread;

 

"As has been said the tourism industry is well developed in Cuba.....

 

....If this goes through it will be boom time for the Cuban economy. The wealth that could be created is enormous."

 

A Win Win wouldn't you say?

 

Happy Holidays!

 

Sometimes people use examples to make a point and it's obviously not just a literal translation of words. My comments were not originally to anything you posted but to someone else who seemed to think if Cuba was opened to tourists from the USA, it would be ruined. My point is that any large scale tourist operations would certainly drastically change the face of the area and it wouldn't really matter where those tourists are from.

 

As far as boom time for the Cuban economy, one would hope that would translate into better times for the "people" who live there. Anyone who has been around to see what has been going on there for many years, even with what you say is a well developed tourism industry, may well question that.

 

As Andy said, he didn't want this to be a political discussion, but that's really what it's all about, isn't it?

 

It's obvious that you love to banter with people but your sarcasm is really wasted on me. Enjoy yourself.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Ma Bell