Why so many Suite benefits?

[cle-guy]

Good info but may not be the main reason as every state and city has different tax laws and as you point out those taxes that are added on to hotels really add up as do the extra fees and taxes when renting a car.

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌞

 

Similarly car rentals itemize fees out as well, as tourist and sales type taxes aren't levied on the fees just the rental portion. They are seen as "expense reimbursements", and not "income", thus exempt from sales taxes.

[phoenix_dream]

The upside to hotels tacking on a resort fee, instead of simply upping the room rate by the same amount, is the Resort Fee does not get the hotel taxes levied against it, which in some cities is quite a big percentage. This is largely the reason hotels have gone to the itemized "resort fee", it saves the room taxes to the guests.

 

You may be right about the tax thing, but we will need to agree to disagree that this is the reason hotels have gone to this. Maybe I am cynical, but I like to think I am pragmatic:). At least in Vegas, where I have been vacationing for 30+ years, the resort fees really starting popping up right after 9/11 when hotel prices dropped through the floor. I seriously doubt they were doing it to save guests tax dollars! They were doing it because they needed to charge low rates just to get bodies in the door, and they had to make up some $$ somehow (besides gambling, which was down as well). In the early days of Vegas resort fees, many people did not realize the fees were even being applied until they checked out and got a very unpleasant surprise. It started with a few properties, and then spread like wildfire. Soon it spread beyond Vegas as well once word got around (not saying no one did it before - certainly large resorts might have, but it was much, much less prevalent). More people are aware of these things now as there has been so much consumer griping about them that they are now shown before finalizing booking.

[Gordoncruickshank]

I'll admit to being a cheap suite sailer. I don't spend a whole lot - on my TA, my bill was about $300, though I did buy the drinks package prior to sailing.

 

I don't use the spa (maybe a haircut if I need one), don't go crazy with wines, though will enjoy some, but they certainly aren't raking in the cash on my spending.

 

I use the specialty dining I'm entitled to on most sailings (sometimes don't even bother) but I like MDR and Ocean View Cafe just as well, and frankly as the specialty menus haven't changed in a while, I have no desire to pay for the same thing yet again.

 

Now that I am Elite plus, when in a suite with no drinks package, even my Al Bacio drinks are covered, and Michaels for liquor drinks, all I have left is to pay for a martini or 2 a day and a wine at dinner. These are usually covered with the OBC my TA grants me, combined with my shareholder OBC (I tend to book last minute and don't get 123 style perks)

 

I partly think the Suite perks all-inclusive perks for RS and PH are due in some respect to folks not paying for them a-la-cart, so instead X is "including them" and charging for them up front in cabin fare.

 

Sure there are some high rollers and spenders in suites, but there are plenty of others who don't spend as if the cash is burning a hole in their pockets.

 

I feel like the more often one cruises, the less they actually spend on the ship over time, this is certainly the case for myself.

 

We have a couple of RS booked for this Sept and Next October. my 60th and another special reason for 2006. One of the tipping factors wa the free premium package , Michaels and the free internet.

 

I am never fully away from work and always end up with an Internet bill of $400++ plus the drink package upgrade of $322 for 2 weeks. That comes up the difference between the CS and the RS. The speciality restaurants don't make a big difference as when you get to a certain age eating quantities diminish. Once a cruise in Murano is enough for us.

 

We don't do what you do with your credit card via celebrity but do collectmCirgin Miles, much via my business which allows some civilised relatively cheap comfortable travel. It still costs more than a regular fare but not quite the $7,500 it would cost if we paid the whole lot (which we wouldn't)

[LabGuy64]

Very true Curt....the celebrity algorithim is working hard to maximize the booking / profit ratio.....anothing to do with issues of fairness...or dollar /sq foot...and I never heard od anyone refusing a free upgrade because it was not fair to those that paid ful fare....congrats on snagging the penthouse at that price!

 

I'm sailing PH on Summit for 7 nights saturday for $8500 as a solo, $4250 per person.

 

I've done PH on a 13 night TA on Eclipse for under $10k solo (5 k pp). This year the Eclipse TA is selling SKY suites for over 10k PER PERSON, 20k for the cabin!

 

Pricing is all over the place, supply and demand hard at work. Its impossible for anyone to make generalizations about fares unless comparing exact same ship and itinerary and smiling date. Even same itineraries in a season vary dramatically.

[LabGuy64]

if what you are saying is true..how do you account for price drops and free or reduced cabin upgrdes?

 

 

This was your final sentence, and in all instances except the penthouse suites go up in price per square foot.

 

In all instances across all classes of cabin prices go up per square foot. The two exceptions being outside view and penthouse.

 

I did the maths, laboriously.

[Adidas4fun]

if what you are saying is true..how do you account for price drops and free or reduced cabin upgrdes?

I don't have to account for that at all. any cabin class can be subject to differing discounts and then you are no longer comparing apples with apples.

[LabGuy64]

you don't think price drops and upgrades have anything to do with the prices of other cabins?......if so your view of this issue is terribly distorted

 

 

I don't have to account for that at all. any cabin class can be subject to differing discounts and then you are no longer comparing apples with apples.

[teecee60]

 

the more people there are staying (and paying) in suites, the happier i am!

 

please remember than many of us do not was to cruise for $30 a day and eat in the mdr. Just get over it. Some of us are happy to pay for a higher level of service.

 

whooosshhh...

Edited January 22, 2015 by teecee60

[Adidas4fun]

you don't think price drops and upgrades have anything to do with the prices of other cabins?......if so your view of this issue is terribly distorted

 

So 7 out of 8 royal suites sell at full price and one sells at a discounted rate ... What are you trying to say about that?

 

Other than trying to distort things? (By focussing on the exception rather than the norm)

Edited January 22, 2015 by Adidas4fun

[cle-guy]

So 7 out of 8 royal suites sell at full price and one sells at a discounted rate ... What are you trying to say about that?

 

Other than trying to distort things? (By focussing on the exception rather than the norm)

 

Looking at my upcoming Summit sailing, Royal suites had 11 different prices while being on sale- steady for several months, some drops in the middle, some slight increases and a huge last minute increase for whatever sold last.

 

So which of those 11 price points is considered selling at full price? The last one at highest price, the ones that sold early on before the price drops in the middle...?

 

There is no single "full price" on any cabin on any sailing, prices move all over the place, an all cabin types.

[Adidas4fun]

Looking at my upcoming Summit sailing, Royal suites had 11 different prices while being on sale- steady for several months, some drops in the middle, some slight increases and a huge last minute increase for whatever sold last.

 

So which of those 11 price points is considered selling at full price? The last one at highest price, the ones that sold early on before the price drops in the middle...?

 

There is no single "full price" on any cabin on any sailing, prices move all over the place, an all cabin types.

You pick a cruise far enough out so that there is unlikely to be any price drops etc affecting the prices.

 

If you want to do the maths to prove me wrong go ahead.

 

But do you really think celebrity dont know the cost of their suite benefits?

Do you really think that the ordinary cabins are subsidising the suites?

(And dont just pick on the penthouse do the full income per boat for all suites, you can even factor in a percentage not occupied if it floats your boat.)

 

Otherwise the discussion remains below the level of half truths and stoops to that of innuendo.

[Merriem]

You may be right about the tax thing, but we will need to agree to disagree that this is the reason hotels have gone to this. Maybe I am cynical, but I like to think I am pragmatic:). At least in Vegas, where I have been vacationing for 30+ years, the resort fees really starting popping up right after 9/11 when hotel prices dropped through the floor. I seriously doubt they were doing it to save guests tax dollars! They were doing it because they needed to charge low rates just to get bodies in the door, and they had to make up some $$ somehow (besides gambling, which was down as well). In the early days of Vegas resort fees, many people did not realize the fees were even being applied until they checked out and got a very unpleasant surprise. It started with a few properties, and then spread like wildfire. Soon it spread beyond Vegas as well once word got around (not saying no one did it before - certainly large resorts might have, but it was much, much less prevalent). More people are aware of these things now as there has been so much consumer griping about them that they are now shown before finalizing booking.

 

I assume that ship fees are not taxable, just like the ones on airlines. If you check baggage in coach, you are paying a fee, and that is just money for the airlines, and the $$$$$$ they make off of the passenger is not reportable. Not sure about hotels, but it is a known fact about the airlines.

[Seabourn Pearls]

You know......

 

Perhaps, there is a new cruise line in this......you could call it Proletariat Cruise line....all the ships would be totally without windows and rectangular in shape so that there would be 2500 exactly equal sized "interior" cabins......Hmmm might have to look into this....LOL

 

Excellent point. I believe a similar proposal was advanced in Tuesday's SOTU address.

[cle-guy]

You pick a cruise far enough out so that there is unlikely to be any price drops etc affecting the prices.

 

If you want to do the maths to prove me wrong go ahead.

 

But do you really think celebrity dont know the cost of their suite benefits?

Do you really think that the ordinary cabins are subsidising the suites?

(And dont just pick on the penthouse do the full income per boat for all suites, you can even factor in a percentage not occupied if it floats your boat.)

 

Otherwise the discussion remains below the level of half truths and stoops to that of innuendo.

 

When have I said any cabin is subsidizing any other cabin, let alone that standards are subsidizing suites? I've made the point that there are other factors at play such as giving various groups pf passengers choice in cabin size, square footage has very little to do with setting cabin fares in all honesty.

 

You stated that RS sell for full fare but for the last one sold, I am asking how do you define "full fare" in your analysis, as I noted 11 price changes in an upcoming sailing (verandas on that one by the way, had 14 price changes).

 

As you stated all suites sold or full fare but the last, that means we have to look at a cruise sailing very soon, to see how all the suites sold, we can't look to a cruise a year away with only 1 or 2 of the suites sold to conclude that "all the suites but the last one" sold at full fare, can we? If all the suites are not sold, how can you state that they all sold for full fare?

 

But for fun, I'll look far out. 2/7/16 Eclipse sailing, so far RS have had 4 price points. So far 1 of the 8 RS have been sold on this one, but the fare has adjusted 4 times (all increases so far). Which of these 4 price points (so far) is "full fare"?

[cle-guy]

I assume that ship fees are not taxable, just like the ones on airlines. If you check baggage in coach, you are paying a fee, and that is just money for the airlines, and the $$$$$$ they make off of the passenger is not reportable. Not sure about hotels, but it is a known fact about the airlines.

 

Having worked in Marriott Hotels as an Assistant General Manager, I can confirm it's the same for hotels. The "fees" are looked at as "expense reimbursements" under taxation regulations, and therefore are not "income" and do not get taxes levied upon them.

[ChucktownSteve]

So if I understand the OP, Celebrity should tax the 1% suite occupiers and spread their fair share to the inside dwellers? :rolleyes:

[Chunky2219]

Oh dear, oh dear. This old chestnut again.

 

Is there any other sphere of commerce on the planet where you don't expect people paying more to get more? Airlines? Hotels? Restaurants? Cars? Houses?

 

No, I thought not.

 

.

[Gordoncruickshank]

Prices vary under the good old rules of supply and demand although we generally book very early and over the years we have always found that gas worked in our favour with final prices always being significantly higher than our original booking price, with one exception.

 

When we did our first Canaries cruise on Celebrity, the AQ price was so high at the start that we decided to take a 1A cabin and use the duping he ultimate dinng package. We would have saved £600 on the price of AQ. Prices dropped and we switched to AQ for no extra cash although we later jumped onto an S1,

[ChucktownSteve]

Isn't full price what someone pays at the time they book regardless of what the previous or future price is? :rolleyes:

[Project_gal]

Prices vary under the good old rules of supply and demand although we generally book very early and over the years we have always found that gas worked in our favour with final prices always being significantly higher than our original booking price, with one exception.

 

This is our experience.

 

We usually book the day cruises open [or, if I am honest, within minutes of cruises opening to ensure we get the room we want!] and I check prices every week, without fail. I am not sure why I do because, in all that time, there has only ever been one price drop [less than £200]. We were lucky enough to get our price adjusted downwards because, by the time we sailed, prices were higher than we originally paid. We find that, at least for the categories we book, the early booking offer [whatever it is] is the best deal we can get.

 

In the UK, our deposits are not refundable. I find it hard to understand why those in markets with refundable deposits do not all book when cruises are released.

[LabGuy64]

I will not apologize......bring back serfdom.

 

I want 10,000 serfs subsidizing a lavish lifestyle for me....not to mention Droit du seigneur.......

 

Does that make me a bad person? LOL

 

 

 

When have I said any cabin is subsidizing any other cabin, let alone that standards are subsidizing suites? I've made the point that there are other factors at play such as giving various groups pf passengers choice in cabin size, square footage has very little to do with setting cabin fares in all honesty.

 

You stated that RS sell for full fare but for the last one sold, I am asking how do you define "full fare" in your analysis, as I noted 11 price changes in an upcoming sailing (verandas on that one by the way, had 14 price changes).

 

As you stated all suites sold or full fare but the last, that means we have to look at a cruise sailing very soon, to see how all the suites sold, we can't look to a cruise a year away with only 1 or 2 of the suites sold to conclude that "all the suites but the last one" sold at full fare, can we? If all the suites are not sold, how can you state that they all sold for full fare?

 

But for fun, I'll look far out. 2/7/16 Eclipse sailing, so far RS have had 4 price points. So far 1 of the 8 RS have been sold on this one, but the fare has adjusted 4 times (all increases so far). Which of these 4 price points (so far) is "full fare"?

[need2bespoiled]

This is our experience.

 

We usually book the day cruises open [or, if I am honest, within minutes of cruises opening to ensure we get the room we want!] and I check prices every week, without fail. I am not sure why I do because, in all that time, there has only ever been one price drop [less than £200]. We were lucky enough to get our price adjusted downwards because, by the time we sailed, prices were higher than we originally paid. We find that, at least for the categories we book, the early booking offer [whatever it is] is the best deal we can get.

 

In the UK, our deposits are not refundable. I find it hard to understand why those in markets with refundable deposits do not all book when cruises are released.

 

I agree with you, but it's also a bit different with supply and demand. When you book, you take half the available inventory for the cabin type your booking. Additionally, you've done quite a few sailings on popular, less offered itinieraries.

 

If you didn't book, prices may go done, but it is definitely a catch 22. Maybe if the other cabins in the few sailings on either side of yours didn't sell, you'd get a drop, but with the increasing popularity, don't count on many being available or price drops, but I think you know this :)

 

Happy sailimg,

Jenna

[Gordoncruickshank]

I agree with you, but it's also a bit different with supply and demand. When you book, you take half the available inventory for the cabin type your booking. Additionally, you've done quite a few sailings on popular, less offered itinieraries.

 

If you didn't book, prices may go done, but it is definitely a catch 22. Maybe if the other cabins in the few sailings on either side of yours didn't sell, you'd get a drop, but with the increasing popularity, don't count on many being available or price drops, but I think you know this :)

 

Happy sailimg,

Jenna

You gave to look at the on average position from the UK. As we have non refundable deposits. On average the price of high end rooms goes up not down over time. I have a couple is RS booked over he next few years and the current price of those is around £2000 higher than our original booking price. It seems to be the same across the whole of suite class rooms.mthey only go up unless the cruise is really unpopular.

 

It can vary cruise by cruise but in general, getting in when booking opens is never a bad thing

Edited January 23, 2015 by Gordoncruickshank

[dgparent]

Oh dear, oh dear. This old chestnut again.

 

Is there any other sphere of commerce on the planet where you don't expect people paying more to get more? Airlines? Hotels? Restaurants? Cars? Houses?

 

No, I thought not.

 

.

 

I agree when I get on a plane I never ask why that guy in 1st class is getting a hot lunch while I am eating a bag of Chips I bought at the airport.

 

On a plane the class system is really obvious, you are cooped up with these people for X amount of hours, on a ship you would not know a suite passenger from a inside cabin passenger.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

Very simple, suites get benefits because of the price paid. We are retired but choose to cruise once a year because of our cats. We can afford higher end suites because of this; and because when we were working we ate breakfast at home, carried our lunch, and ate most dinners at home. We did not go to Starbucks twice a day or stop at the concession stand in the building for coffee and Danish. We never felt deprived or envied coworkers who choose a life stile different from ours. We enjoyed our self on vacations and on the dinner or wine splurge and can now afford to cruise once a year in a suite.

 

Mary Lou