Beverage Package Gratuities Update: 15% to 18%

[anniegb]

First, allow me to just say that I don't say any of what I am about to say because I'm some pompous American that believes that our customs or ways are better, but rather am trying to give you the proper perspective. You again are confusing or mixing what IS customary, with what makes sense or is fair to you. One has absolutely no bearing on the other. You are certainly entitled to your opinion--nobody begrudges you that. You are even entitled to say that another country or culture's customs or practices are silly, stupid or do not make any sense. What you are not entitled to (or is at least not appropriate) is to use your own perspective to implement a different practice within another culture. IOW, it totally doesn't matter if you feel the US system is ridiculous or not--unless you wish to deliberately snub a server, you SHOULD pay a 15%-20% tip on beverage or food orders because that IS the practice.

 

I for one don't understand why I can't hug the Queen, but I wouldn't think of doing it because I respect the local customs, and know it would be highly inappropriate and socially unacceptable in the UK or Australia. If you are a woman and are traveling in Saudi Arabia, you'd be well advised to cover your head and face. I could go on.... These are just some examples of why, when we travel, it IS important to understand, respect and adapt to the local customs and practices.

 

While it is indeed true that the percentage of U.S. customers is declining and that the global market is growing, the point is irrelevant to the general topic of tipping on Celebrity. Except for possibly a microscopic handful of speciality markets or specialty cruises where there are few North Americans aboard, the subject of this thread pertains to the majority (or is it all?) of X's cruises now and for the foreseeable future. If and when Aussies and other fill 51% of MOST Caribbean, Alaska, Europe and Pacific cruises, then perhaps the day will come with X and other lines will switch to a no-tipping system. But until then, because it's a majority-rules world, the majority "customer base" to which you refer still sets the baselines and customs for the minority "customer base" in which you are one. Sorry! :rolleyes:

 

On my last cruise a family group of 4 US adults removed ALL their gratuities after completing a 39 day cruise. They worked in Hollywood BTW.

 

They were not alone. The line at the Front Desk was very long.

 

They NEVER purchased an alcoholic beverage as it would incur gratuities.

 

I have had the privilege of visiting many US cities from East to West and I have met Americans who REFUSE to tip.

 

So please do not convey the impression that tipping is an accepted US custom because I know different.

 

 

Annie

 

BTW I ALWAYS leave my auto-grats on.

[Terpnut]

I'm very pleased that Celebrity posted the information here on CC.

 

If one does'nt agree with their tipping policies, then choose another cruise line.

 

 

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The problem for those on this board who come from countries or cultures that don't normally tip (or don't tip nearly as much) is that in the U.S., we are tending to tip more over time. I think the 18% tipping guideline is simply moving the "customary" bar higher--not just because X is being more greedy.

 

My wife and I personally tip 15% for average service, 18% for very good service and 20% for excellent service. My father happens to tip 3-5% more! Most people we know do this too. But I imagine my Aussie and other friends reading this post are probably flabbergasted or totally bewildered by this! :p

 

So I think the sore spot for people without any tradition of tipping is: a 15% gratuity already seems non-sensical so this increase to 18% seems just that much more ridiculous. But the point I keep trying to make is: that's just the way it is so you just have to deal with it! ;)

 

On my last cruise a family group of 4 US adults removed ALL their gratuities after completing a 39 day cruise. They worked in Hollywood BTW.

 

They were not alone. The line at the Front Desk was very long.

 

They NEVER purchased an alcoholic beverage as it would incur gratuities.

 

I have had the privilege of visiting many US cities from East to West and I have met Americans who REFUSE to tip.

 

So please do not convey the impression that tipping is an accepted US custom because I know different.

 

 

Annie

 

BTW I ALWAYS leave my auto-grats on.

Please don't generalize based on anecdotal information. There will always be people who don't tip, including Americans. But it is preposterous to say that tipping is not "an accepted US custom". For those who work in the hospitality or food service industries, there are always tales of the occasional poor tipper. But there is one certainty and that is the vast majority of people (probably 75-90%) tip and most tip the recommended 15% of the food or beverage total (before tax). So I don't know where you are from, where you have travelled or which Americans you associated with, but your sample set is extremely flawed and you don't know Americans (or at least our tipping customs) very well. Edited January 30, 2015 by Terpnut

[patty1955]

Both my husband and I worked in restaurants years ago and we usually tip 20-25%. We do not tip cashiers, just waste staff who take our order, bring the food to a table and (hopefully) refill our drinks.

[anniegb]

The problem for those on this board who come from countries or cultures that don't normally tip (or don't tip nearly as much) is that in the U.S., we are tending to tip more over time. I think the 18% tipping guideline is simply moving the "customary" bar higher--not just because X is being more greedy.

 

My wife and I personally tip 15% for average service, 18% for very good service and 20% for excellent service. My father happens to tip 3-5% more! Most people we know do this too. But I imagine my Aussie and other friends reading this post are probably flabbergasted or totally bewildered by this! :p

 

So I think the sore spot for people without any tradition of tipping is: a 15% gratuity already seems non-sensical so this increase to 18% seems just that much more ridiculous. But the point I keep trying to make is: that's just the way it is so you just have to deal with it! ;)

 

Please don't generalize based on anecdotal information. There will always be people who don't tip, including Americans. But it is preposterous to say that tipping is not "an accepted US custom". For those who work in the hospitality or food service industries, there are always tales of the occasional poor tipper. But there is one certainty and that is the vast majority of people (probably 75-90%) tip and most tip the recommended 15% of the food or beverage total (before tax). So I don't know where you are from, where you have travelled or which Americans you associated with, but your sample set is extremely flawed and you don't know Americans (or at least our tipping customs) very well.

 

Anecdotal Information??

 

Events that I witnessed.

 

10 years ago I would have agreed with you that over 90% of Americans tip.

 

That number has peaked - JMO.

 

I may have been unlucky with the people I met, but I know that some US citizens who did tip RESENTED it.

 

The world is changing.

 

Annie

[Hawkeye hfx]

I got a classic Bev package via the pick your perk promo for our march cruise. How will this work, will we be required to sign for an additional three percent per drink? Or, if prepurchased Bev packs are excluded from the increase, how will our servers know that? Will we have to explain that we got our package long before this increase came into effect? Looking forward to hearing the answers, thanks in advance.

 

Not sure if I missed an answer to this question but i am also looking for clarification.

 

If I have the 1-2-3 which includes pre paid grats as well as classic package, and on board credit....can I use my onboard credit to offset the gratuity? Or do I need to budget for tips? Can I use the onboard credit to offset the price of the bev pkg upgrade if I choose?

 

 

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[wallie5446]

If one does'nt agree with their tipping policies, then choose another cruise line.

 

That will still pose the same problem, as most all mass market lines have the same grat policy.:rolleyes:

[wallie5446]

Not sure if I missed an answer to this question but i am also looking for clarification.

 

If I have the 1-2-3 which includes pre paid grats as well as classic package, and on board credit....can I use my onboard credit to offset the gratuity? Or do I need to budget for tips? Can I use the onboard credit to offset the price of the bev pkg upgrade if I choose?

 

 

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If you have the 1,2,3, all inclusive perk package, you will have no grats to pay, as they are already taken care of in your cruise cost. The OBC is for you to have fun with!:D and the 18% grat is also taken care of in the classic pkg.

Edited January 30, 2015 by wallie5446

[Hawkeye hfx]

Wow. That's great news.

 

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[RickT]

Anecdotal Information??

 

Events that I witnessed.

 

10 years ago I would have agreed with you that over 90% of Americans tip.

 

That number has peaked - JMO.

 

I may have been unlucky with the people I met, but I know that some US citizens who did tip RESENTED it.

 

The world is changing.

 

Annie

 

Chiming in as a Canadian it is also customary in Canada to tip for certain services (bar, restaurant, barber, etc) and while some people don't like it or choose not to, the majority do. This is based on information I receive from friends who own businesses as well as friends who work in those various service type jobs that depend on tips to earn a decent living.

 

I have no idea how the various pay structures in Canada compare to those of countries where tipping is not a common practice, but in Canada, most people who are in those type of jobs earn a minimum wage (some Provinces even allow a reduced minimum wage if the job is one that has an opportunity to earn tips) and tips are the only thing that makes the total compensation satisfactory.

 

I assume if tipping is not common the base wage would be much higher, which one assumes would then result in increased costs which would be needed to pay the higher wage.

 

After all is said and done, I believe the right thing to do is to follow the customs/practices in whichever country I am in. And if I don't know, I usually tip so as not to offend or rip-off someone but that's just my personal philosophy.

[kenevenpar]

How do you justify 18% gratuity on a beverage??! Particularly, in light of the fact that your oil/fuel costs have dropped about 40% in the last few months?

 

How in the world do you know oil/fuel costs dropped 40%? Fuel for airlines, ships and many other businesses is bought months and years earlier.

[Terpnut]

Anecdotal Information??

 

Events that I witnessed.

 

10 years ago I would have agreed with you that over 90% of Americans tip.

 

That number has peaked - JMO.

 

I may have been unlucky with the people I met, but I know that some US citizens who did tip RESENTED it.

 

The world is changing.

 

Annie

The world may be changing, but in the U.S., the reality is that many people are actually tipping MORE and not less. It really doesn't matter whether some Americans or foreigners resent, dislike, abhor, hate or whatever... tipping. It is simply the custom and, at least in our lifetimes, this will NOT be changing! You are simply delusional if you believe that U.S.-style gratuities are changing so much that they'll be going away anytime soon! I'd bet Her Majesty the Queen will wear bluejeans long before tipping goes away!

[chamima]

Not sure if I missed an answer to this question but i am also looking for clarification.

 

If I have the 1-2-3 which includes pre paid grats as well as classic package, and on board credit....can I use my onboard credit to offset the gratuity? Or do I need to budget for tips? Can I use the onboard credit to offset the price of the bev pkg upgrade if I choose?

 

 

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Answers are color coded to questions:

 

If you have all 3 the gratuity is already included and you will not be charged the 3% on the classic package or anything else that is already included .

 

Yes, you can

 

 

*

Edited January 30, 2015 by chamima

[RickT]

Can I use the onboard credit to offset the price of the bev pkg upgrade if I choose?

 

Apologies that this is a little off topic.

 

Hawkeye, it's worth checking out the price of paying for the upgrade (in Canadian $) before you board. I did it a couple weeks ago and the exchange rate was very favourable (I think around 11% but don't quote me) although I've read a post recently that said it increased.

 

Depending on how much of an onboard credit you may have it may be worth using that for other things (tipping, shore excursions, specialty restaurants). As a side note, if you do it now you'd also only be paying 15% gratuity instead of 18%.

[Pushka]

While I understand the frustration or stress of having to deal with such cultural differences, the one given of travel is that one must adapt to local customs--regardless of whether it makes sense to you personally. There are countless threads and topics where people use their personal perspectives to disagree with what is socially or culturally accepted or appropriate in a foreign country.

 

In this case, it really does not matter whether one agrees with US-style tipping, whether it makes any sense to personally, or if you are accustomed to it. All that matters is that it is normal, customary and expected. So you probably need to reset your "normal" to 15% tipping when traveling to the US and many countries, or onboard most cruise ships. A debate on whether the concept of tipping is good or bad will not be resolved in this forum.

 

 

I guess confusion from the Aussie perspective is when US cultural norms are on a ship that is cruising Australian European or Asian waters. I'm wondering who is resistant to change here? I've never cruised in US coastal waters but those are the norms on the ships.

 

Not saying that's an issue for me but cultural acceptance/change has to work both ways ?

 

And as the ships aren't registered in the USA the tipping issue is a business model rather than based on culture.

Edited January 30, 2015 by Pushka

[Hawkeye hfx]

Thank you for the info. Im toying with the idea. We are in a CS so I can get premium bevys in Michaels club but I dont want to feel tied to that venue. I am a bit fussy about red wine but I can drink an absolute martini....if that's included in classic, I am probably fine. My parents will drink Cdn Club, is that included in the Classic pkg?

 

 

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[wallie5446]

Answers are color coded to questions:

 

If you have all 3 the gratuity is already included and you will not be charged the 3% on the classic package or anything else that is already included .

 

Yes, you can

 

 

*

 

Thank you for the info. Im toying with the idea. We are in a CS so I can get premium bevys in Michaels club but I dont want to feel tied to that venue. I am a bit fussy about red wine but I can drink an absolute martini....if that's included in classic, I am probably fine. My parents will drink Cdn Club, is that included in the Classic pkg?

 

 

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Karen i AM A DITZZZZ! Thats what I get for looking at CC from the office!:rolleyes: Thank You yet again for keeping me straight with rapping my knuckles!:D

 

Hawkeye we wait till we are on ship and use the OBC to upgrade our bev pkg also. Sorry for speed reading your question!;)

[harz99]

RCI is headquartered in the US, the ships are constructed in Europe but are flagged elsewhere, and the crew comes from all over the world. But none of that is relevant to this thread. The only thing that is relevant and a certainty is that the gratuity/tipping guidelines, plans/promos and customary practices onboard X's cruise ships have always been done "U.S.-style". Again, it's why the dollar is the official currency, English is the official language, etc. etc. Again, this isn't a debate over whether any of this is a good thing or not, it's just the way it is. :rolleyes:

 

RCCL, the parent company, is incorporated in Liberia, but I guess that's irrelevant as well.

 

However, I do not believe it is correct to say that Celebrity have any tipping guidelines.

 

They have do have policy for gratuities, which of course they are entitled to set at whatever level they wish.

 

Neither is it correct to say that plans/promos on ship are always done U.S. style as there are now onboard offers specifically aimed at other nations such as we Brits.

 

As I think, The Big M alluded to in an earlier post, certain things on board ship are changing with our changing times, that is also the way it is, and it with more and more drinks package offers, Celebrity is moving closer to becoming all-inclusive at which point gratuities would cease to be an issue.

[Terpnut]

I guess confusion from the Aussie perspective is when US cultural norms are on a ship that is cruising Australian European or Asian waters. I'm wondering who is resistant to change here? I've never cruised in US coastal waters but those are the norms on the ships.

 

Not saying that's an issue for me but cultural acceptance/change has to work both ways ?

 

And as the ships aren't registered in the USA the tipping issue is a business model rather than based on culture.

Please don't think I'm some arrogant American pushing our ways. I'm definitely not.

 

What I am saying is that Celebrity and every cruiseline does what any good business does, i.e. it creates policies, implements procedures and utilizes practices that are suitable for the majority of its customers. And being the richest and most affluent nation, it should surprise nobody that Americans will form the majority on most cruises around the world--even in Asia or Australia. Now, it may not be a pleasant or fair proposition for Aussies and others to be "forced" to accept our customs, but it is the reality.

 

Also, and just for discussions sake, please consider the question you asked. What IF for Australia cruises, they implemented a system whereby there was no tipping per YOUR local custom? You would pay for everything at face value and no stupid tipping. What would likely happen? Well, you'd have to bake in a much higher wage into the base stateroom fares. Demand from US and other customers would decline substantially because some Americans would almost certainly factor tipping in anyhow with the higher fares. Cruise lines would lose money, fewer ships would sail, and you and your economy would lose in the end. This is precisely why you have American-style customs, including tipping, on ALL cruises. Because, right or wrong, like it or not, good or bad--it's the Americans who dictate how, when and what happens on cruise ships.

[lakelivin2]

How in the world do you know oil/fuel costs dropped 40%? Fuel for airlines, ships and many other businesses is bought months and years earlier.

 

Years earlier? Wow, I had no idea. How do you know this?

[OkanaganRon]

The actual fuel would be bought on a forward contract, likely far in advance, with delivery just in time for need.

[neverbeenhere]

How is the usage of fuel contracts related to the percentage tip added to a drink package? As far as I know, some, most and/or all of the fuel is contracted. But, again unless you plan to drink the fuel, they aren't related. Also seems that 18% of the drink package price would be closer to 15% of all the drinks consumed prior to the drink package existence. Cruise on.

[GazW]

...(I) am trying to give you the proper perspective. You again are confusing or mixing what IS customary, with what makes sense or is fair to you. One has absolutely no bearing on the other. You are certainly entitled to your opinion--nobody begrudges you that. You are even entitled to say that another country or culture's customs or practices are silly, stupid or do not make any sense. What you are not entitled to (or is at least not appropriate) is to use your own perspective to implement a different practice within another culture. IOW, it totally doesn't matter if you feel the US system is ridiculous or not--unless you wish to deliberately snub a server, you SHOULD pay a 15%-20% tip on beverage or food orders because that IS the practice.

 

I for one don't understand why I can't hug the Queen, but I wouldn't think of doing it because I respect the local customs, and know it would be highly inappropriate and socially unacceptable in the UK or Australia. If you are a woman and are traveling in Saudi Arabia, you'd be well advised to cover your head and face. I could go on.... These are just some examples of why, when we travel, it IS important to understand, respect and adapt to the local customs and practices.

 

I appreciate your attempt at "giving me the proper perpesctive".

 

Your assumption that I am confusing 'convention' with my own views is incorrect. I have not once in my very few posts denied that the practise is "customary", as it undoubtably is. I believe it is almost universally entrenched within the cruising industry.

 

Nor am I trying to use my "own perspective to implement a different practice within another culture" - I assume you are talking about American culture here? (Don't want to touch that.)

 

But, apparently, I am not allowed to proffer my opinion on something that is customary? Wow! Who made you Queen?...don't expect a hug!

 

I do have a bit of a problem with your assertion of the whole "US Customs & Practises" onboard cruise ships - I may well be wrong and you have an advantage over me in that your knowledge of the the history of cruising is exemplary and prior to the US getting into the game, tipping was just a word for throwing uneaten silver served food overboard.

 

Of course you also reckon the US "invented" restaurants (And clothes!?! And don't get me started on "English")...

 

As Karynanne already said, the reason the U.S. is relevant to this discussion is because most major cruise lines run their business based on U.S. customs and practices, e.g. currency (always the US dollar), tipping (15-20% is "normal"), attire (what is formal vs. business casual), language (English), restaurant service, casino operations, credit cards accepted, etc. etc.

 

Whilst I am attempting to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek here, there is a serious point...Which I have already tried to make - but which others have more succinctly opined.

 

It's an outdated model - pay fair. [ :rolleyes: ? ]

[laslomas]

I get that tipping is a US custom and because Celebrity is a US cruise line the US guidelines are to be followed. But over the decades why do US citizens keep deciding to raise the % they feel should be added for a service and everyone has to follow? How does this occur?

 

I remember 10% 12% 15% now 18% and many will tip 20%. But surely the service that is being recognised has not risen in line with this. So why has the tip? A previous poster stated they tip 15% for average service, 18% for very good service and 20% for excellent service. Why tip so much for average service? The server is being paid to deliver that. I always happily give a tip where excellent service has been given with a smile, as do most people.

 

There is another post reminding us that the US is "the richest and most affluent nation". I find this sad after reading that those in the service industry are expected to accept wages well below a living wage yet they live in that affluent nation. The only way to take home a decent wage is to earn tips and everyone is expected to understand this.

 

I prefer the idea of paying for a cruise that includes all the required tips. I know where I am and can budget accordingly, I can relax and enjoy cruising knowing I do not have to concern myself with how much and who to give it to.

 

There will never be agreement on tipping policy but until things change (maybe in the future?) do not let it spoil a wonderful holiday.

[Terpnut]

I appreciate your attempt at "giving me the proper perpesctive".

 

Your assumption that I am confusing 'convention' with my own views is incorrect. I have not once in my very few posts denied that the practise is "customary", as it undoubtably is. I believe it is almost universally entrenched within the cruising industry.

 

Nor am I trying to use my "own perspective to implement a different practice within another culture" - I assume you are talking about American culture here? (Don't want to touch that.)

 

But, apparently, I am not allowed to proffer my opinion on something that is customary? Wow! Who made you Queen?...don't expect a hug!

 

I do have a bit of a problem with your assertion of the whole "US Customs & Practises" onboard cruise ships - I may well be wrong and you have an advantage over me in that your knowledge of the the history of cruising is exemplary and prior to the US getting into the game, tipping was just a word for throwing uneaten silver served food overboard.

 

Of course you also reckon the US "invented" restaurants (And clothes!?! And don't get me started on "English")...

 

 

 

Whilst I am attempting to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek here, there is a serious point...Which I have already tried to make - but which others have more succinctly opined.

 

It's an outdated model - pay fair. [ :rolleyes: ? ]

I get your frustration but at the risk of beating the proverbial dead horse, my point again is that there is no point in rendering your opinion HERE on what you and others think of the concept of tipping in general. This thread is about the increase from 15% to 18% in standard beverage gratuities. So I was trying to nicely "reset" your baselines so that you understand how 15% is normal and customary before, and so we can all have a reasonable discussion on the merits of moving to 18%. However, you and others persist on bashing the senselessness of the entire CONCEPT--which is both irrelevant and unproductive. I am not saying your opinions on tipping are irrelevant--it's just that they are irrelevant and tangential to this thread. And no amount of tip-bashing or dreaming about a "pay fair" world is going to change anything. The simple (and perhaps insulting to you) reality is that the majority of the industrialized world (or at least the majority of customers with disposable income to spend on cruises) utilizes this gratuity custom, the cruise lines have embraced it, and it's well, JUST THE WAY IT IS. So please don't shoot the messenger and hate me for saying the obvious--I didn't invent it nor have any say in implementing it. :rolleyes:

[Terpnut]

I get that tipping is a US custom and because Celebrity is a US cruise line the US guidelines are to be followed. But over the decades why do US citizens keep deciding to raise the % they feel should be added for a service and everyone has to follow? How does this occur?

 

I remember 10% 12% 15% now 18% and many will tip 20%. But surely the service that is being recognised has not risen in line with this. So why has the tip? A previous poster stated they tip 15% for average service, 18% for very good service and 20% for excellent service. Why tip so much for average service? The server is being paid to deliver that. I always happily give a tip where excellent service has been given with a smile, as do most people.

 

There is another post reminding us that the US is "the richest and most affluent nation". I find this sad after reading that those in the service industry are expected to accept wages well below a living wage yet they live in that affluent nation. The only way to take home a decent wage is to earn tips and everyone is expected to understand this.

 

I prefer the idea of paying for a cruise that includes all the required tips. I know where I am and can budget accordingly, I can relax and enjoy cruising knowing I do not have to concern myself with how much and who to give it to.

 

There will never be agreement on tipping policy but until things change (maybe in the future?) do not let it spoil a wonderful holiday.

All good points, but I think your final sentence summarizing your thoughts says it with the right attitude. Due to cultural differences, people will likely never agree on tipping but until the policies change, just accept the ways things are and don't let it spoil your holiday! :)