Casino courtesy

[ghstudio]

Clearly, gambling is a disease that effects not only one's wallet, but one's mind as well. Statistically (that's mathematically), assuming no card counting, every card drawn has the same odds of being a 10. The card the OP took on 14 had the exact same odds as the next card of being a 10.

 

There are hundreds of guide books and web pages on how to bet and how to win in blackjack...and it shouldn't surprise anyone that they are different. The house has approximately a 0.76894% edge if you follow every rule, every time (assuming 5 decks, etc). (the percent will vary depending on where you look and table rules but it is always positive for the house...not you.

 

I have never seen odds published that show the difference when one player isn't following the "recommended rules". I don't believe the odds change.

 

I would much prefer playing at a table where someone made "non standard" bets, but makes the quickly....then playing at a table where one or more players keeps asking...should I take a card?

 

For those that believe that the magnetic aura of their juju beads changes when someone draws a card that the "rule book" doesn't recommend.....you really need to stop cruising and start to study statistics.

 

I enjoy blackjack on cruises. As long as the folks at the table are not unfriendly and aren't slowing the game down for whatever reason, I'm fine. When someone at the table gets hostile (towards anyone)...then I leave. I haven't memorized every "proper" play and you know what....I generally win. I use one simple rule...and it's not in the books. If I double my money, I'm done. But, if I have an extra $5/10, I'll take another bet and if that wins, I'll stay and play with the house's money...but 2x my initial stake goes home with me. That works better than all the books...(for those that care, I usually bet $100 a night at $10 tables...and often play two hands)

Edited March 31, 2015 by ghstudio

[garda]

Can you describe the man? I was sitting at that table, I think and I don't recall this happening the way you are telling it! I Just recall someone hitting 14 when dealer showing 6 but nobody got angry since dealer busted anyway.

[A1A]

Rude is rude, but this is way to stressful for me. This whole thread reminds me of why I probably don't play blackjack! To each their own I suppose!

Cheers!

Ken

Go Noles! :D

[huskerc]

It's interesting that many of the same people who say this is the wrong play according to the odds (correct) also say that they would leave the table over their belief that how one player plays (or mis-plays) affects their own odds (incorrect).

[gsb]

Clearly, gambling is a disease that effects not only one's wallet, but one's mind as well. Statistically (that's mathematically), assuming no card counting, every card drawn has the same odds of being a 10. The card the OP took on 14 had the exact same odds as the next card of being a 10.

 

There are hundreds of guide books and web pages on how to bet and how to win in blackjack...and it shouldn't surprise anyone that they are different. The house has approximately a 0.76894% edge if you follow every rule, every time (assuming 5 decks, etc). (the percent will vary depending on where you look and table rules but it is always positive for the house...not you.

 

I have never seen odds published that show the difference when one player isn't following the "recommended rules". I don't believe the odds change.

 

I would much prefer playing at a table where someone made "non standard" bets, but makes the quickly....then playing at a table where one or more players keeps asking...should I take a card?

 

For those that believe that the magnetic aura of their juju beads changes when someone draws a card that the "rule book" doesn't recommend.....you really need to stop cruising and start to study statistics.

 

I enjoy blackjack on cruises. As long as the folks at the table are not unfriendly and aren't slowing the game down for whatever reason, I'm fine. When someone at the table gets hostile (towards anyone)...then I leave. I haven't memorized every "proper" play and you know what....I generally win. I use one simple rule...and it's not in the books. If I double my money, I'm done. But, if I have an extra $5/10, I'll take another bet and if that wins, I'll stay and play with the house's money...but 2x my initial stake goes home with me. That works better than all the books...(for those that care, I usually bet $100 a night at $10 tables...and often play two hands)

 

Very good rule. One I've used for a long, long time--If I've had a very hot streak--don't just stop, let the cards tell you when to quit. I call it my 3 in a row rule--Lose two in a row and quit. Lose one, keep going, you might start another streak, but regardless, I'm not going to give back more than the 2.

[Ma Bell]

That is just plain nonsense. By hitting in that situation, there is exactly a 50% chance that another player will benefit/be in the same position or be worse/be in the same position, by her action. The odds are the same regardless of her action.

 

Maybe you should read what I said. I said that playing correctly is no guarantee the YOU will win but it does give YOU a better chance.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Ma Bell

[kitty9]

I also like to play at a table where there are somewhat experienced players, and everyone plays at the same expertise.

 

But I also like knowing that the person sitting at "third base", knows the game well. This person not only plays their own hand, but does have a responsibility to the other players at the table.

 

Now I know some of you won't agree with me...and you're entitled to your opinion, but that "third base" position can make or break a table's play.

 

Yes, yes and yes. What some people don't realize is that one player can ruin an entire table Back when we lived in Scottsdale, we went to Las Vegas every weekend during football season, and I played A LOT of blackjack at many hotels, and I learned very quickly that if you're sitting at a table with someone who doesn't know the game, someone who splits 10's with the dealer showing a face card, when someone hits an 18 because they don't understand the game and think they have to get 21 on every hand, I, and other serious players will get up and leave. I've not seen anyone chastized, but I've heard many a gambler loudly talk to themselves about stupid plays.

 

Do some of you realize that some players get really ticked off if you sit down at a table in the middle of a shoe? I've seen dealers, at high roller tables, not allow new players until the shoe is complete. If you think being admonished by a fellow player is rough, I've personally seen dealers get upset with players who "ruin" tables. And whether you believe it or not, really good players know that the best way to succeed is to play together, against the dealer. Regardless of what some here believe, blackjack is not a singular game unless you're playing video poker at home on your iPad. Yes, it's your money, but if you feel that you're only playing for yourself, maybe it's better to stick with video poker, or risk playing alone at a table for 6.

[Karynanne]

Yes, yes and yes. What some people don't realize is that one player can ruin an entire table Back when we lived in Scottsdale, we went to Las Vegas every weekend during football season, and I played A LOT of blackjack at many hotels, and I learned very quickly that if you're sitting at a table with someone who doesn't know the game, someone who splits 10's with the dealer showing a face card, when someone hits an 18 because they don't understand the game and think they have to get 21 on every hand, I, and other serious players will get up and leave. I've not seen anyone chastized, but I've heard many a gambler loudly talk to themselves about stupid plays.

 

 

 

Do some of you realize that some players get really ticked off if you sit down at a table in the middle of a shoe? I've seen dealers, at high roller tables, not allow new players until the shoe is complete. If you think being admonished by a fellow player is rough, I've personally seen dealers get upset with players who "ruin" tables. And whether you believe it or not, really good players know that the best way to succeed is to play together, against the dealer. Regardless of what some here believe, blackjack is not a singular game unless you're playing video poker at home on your iPad. Yes, it's your money, but if you feel that you're only playing for yourself, maybe it's better to stick with video poker, or risk playing alone at a table for 6.

 

 

Well said. It's actually fun when everyone at the table is playing their hands, with the sole intent on making the dealer break.

[go noles]

From blackjackage.com:

 

Many blackjack players believe that having bad players at the table hurt their chances of winning. If a player hits when he should have stayed or stays when he should have hit then many of the other players at the table may believe that this is throwing off the flow of the game, messing with the order of the cards and hurting the chances of all the other players at the table. This goes along with the following myths-that the order of the cards is sacred and that you should avoid choosing the last position at the table.

 

In reality, mathematically speaking, bad players have no real effect on the outcome of the game. While they may throw off your concentration or get on your nerves, it's a myth that they can seriously affect your chances by playing at your table.

 

Finis!

[riredsox]

I was thinking the same thing.

 

 

 

Playing the book gives you a theoretical edge, but even if you play the book perfectly, you are still more likely to lose than win.

 

I don't believe the OP said she had a habit of playing that way. She said she sometimes plays a hunch. She's allowed to do that without some loser yelling at her. I would have bopped him one...

[go noles]

I don't believe the OP said she had a habit of playing that way. She said she sometimes plays a hunch. She's allowed to do that without some loser yelling at her. I would have bopped him one...

 

Indeed. Her cards, her money.

[jagoffee]

Yes, yes and yes. What some people don't realize is that one player can ruin an entire table Back when we lived in Scottsdale, we went to Las Vegas every weekend during football season, and I played A LOT of blackjack at many hotels, and I learned very quickly that if you're sitting at a table with someone who doesn't know the game, someone who splits 10's with the dealer showing a face card, when someone hits an 18 because they don't understand the game and think they have to get 21 on every hand, I, and other serious players will get up and leave. I've not seen anyone chastized, but I've heard many a gambler loudly talk to themselves about stupid plays.

 

Do some of you realize that some players get really ticked off if you sit down at a table in the middle of a shoe? I've seen dealers, at high roller tables, not allow new players until the shoe is complete. If you think being admonished by a fellow player is rough, I've personally seen dealers get upset with players who "ruin" tables. And whether you believe it or not, really good players know that the best way to succeed is to play together, against the dealer. Regardless of what some here believe, blackjack is not a singular game unless you're playing video poker at home on your iPad. Yes, it's your money, but if you feel that you're only playing for yourself, maybe it's better to stick with video poker, or risk playing alone at a table for 6.

 

Since Celebrity uses a continuous shuffle no middle of the shoe scenarios.

 

Obviously you believe what say, but that does not necessarily make it true. Do you also believe that the flip of a coin is somehow impacted by the previous flip or flips?

 

OP, thanks for starting this thread. I find it interesting to read what people believe. Although the casino makes money from the occasional player who plays hunches I am convinced they make most of their money from the people who think they have it figured out.

 

Good luck to all who play.

[ghstudio]

Since Celebrity uses a continuous shuffle no middle of the shoe scenarios.

 

 

I haven't personally seen any continuous shuffle machines at blackjack tables on celebrity ships. Which ships use it?

[lawgeek]

This is a fun thread that hits close to home. My experience of Blackjack on cruise ships is that you often run across people who play like the OP. So what, if you don't like it move on. There is never a reason to impart your gambling wisdom on others through insults. I play consistently and "by the book." I have found playing with people like the OP has, if anything, increased my winnings (so long as it is not every hand or downright crazy play like splitting 10's).

 

At Bellagio one evening, I was at a table with a buddy. The table was $50 minimum, but the other two players were "grandfathered" in at $15. The girl at the table made a few suspect plays, but we were winning and could care less. After letting a few winning hands ride we had significant bets out, me about $700 and my buddy $1,250. Dealer turns a bust card (6), we are both safe with 18 or 19. Our female playing partner is consternating over her hand and when asked shows a 17. My buddy freaks out and tells her she has to stay, I tell her to go with her heart. My buddy offers to pay her hand off as long as she stays, I tell her not to listen to him. She hits, busts, dealer turns up a 5 for 11, hits with a four followed by a face card...BUST! If you look at those cards, not only was she punished for horrible play, but the table was literally saved and we profited nicely.

 

I don't want to encourage what is truly stupid play, but the reality is there is an element of luck involved. Instead of storming off and insulting the person, we stayed (bet more conservatively though!) and walked away later after having fun with some nice people (and with a pocketful of black chips), which is the whole reason i play in the first place!

 

While no moral to the story, we should be tolerant of others, especially on a cruise where life is meant to be laid back!!

 

Good luck all!

[gek]

Some people say they like to play on "feeling". Others say that these people ruin the game for everyone else. Mathematically speaking both are wrong. Playing on "feeling" will always lower the probability of you winning, but it is just as likely to improve everyone else's chances as it is to lower them.

 

Anyone who complains loudly about someone playing on feeling is also playing on feeling. It's these people who should banish themselves to the video machines because obviously they don't have the temperament to play properly with other people.

 

Poker, on the other hand is a completely different matter. Sitting at a table with someone who is relying on feelings is a joy for any half-decent poker player.

[lawgeek]

Some people say they like to play on "feeling". Others say that these people ruin the game for everyone else. Mathematically speaking both are wrong. Playing on "feeling" will always lower the probability of you winning, but it is just as likely to improve everyone else's chances as it is to lower them.

 

Anyone who complains loudly about someone playing on feeling is also playing on feeling. It's these people who should banish themselves to the video machines because obviously they don't have the temperament to play properly with other people.

 

Poker, on the other hand is a completely different matter. Sitting at a table with someone who is relying on feelings is a joy for any half-decent poker player.

 

Speaking of poker...does anyone know if Summit has one of the "automated" poker tables?

[jagoffee]

I haven't personally seen any continuous shuffle machines at blackjack tables on celebrity ships. Which ships use it?

 

I know you cruise a lot, so am I using the wrong term? My last cruise was on the Eclipse in January. My recollection is that Celebrity is using them on all the Solstice Class ships. Am I mistaken?

Edited April 1, 2015 by jagoffee

[need2bespoiled]

There is so much information in this thread it is astonishing, but it didn't Impact my enjoyment of reading it :)

 

A few corrections of fact:

 

Celebrity has no automatic shufflers or continuous shufflers. They in fact shuffle every deck by hand

 

The odds of the next card being a 10 are higher then other cards on a fresh deck/shoe as there are more 10s in the deck / each deck. The thing is, those odds constantly changing, the only way to know those odds is to count the cards and recalculate the odds.

 

When the dealer busts, everyone wins, it's fun for everyone to win.

 

One observation that has been missed is there aren't many tables on cruise ships in general. Someone will correct me, but Celebrity generally has something like 1 single deck table, 3 low minimum tables ($6-$15) and 2 higher minimum tables. Since many agree playing BJ, especially on a cruise, is a social game, playing a table with others is more fun. When this isn't the case is when I don't bother to play. Otherwise I see I am paying for entertainment when I play and lose (and I do lose, we all do if you play) but when I win I am getting free entertainment. That just funds more entertainment I pay for (give back) later.

 

Suggesting that someone find another table is often suggesting they don't play as there are usually only two active multi deck tables and one low limit single deck table with players on Celebrity. The $25 minimum tables are often empty or have one player who isn't very social and often there is a dealer standing there waiting. I've rarely seen full $25 minimum tables on cruise ships when in Vegas most tables at the big (newer) casinos start there especially on weekends.

 

Happy sailing,

Jenna

[waterbug123]

 

But I also like knowing that the person sitting at "third base", knows the game well. This person not only plays their own hand, but does have a responsibility to the other players at the table.

 

Now I know some of you won't agree with me...and you're entitled to your opinion, but that "third base" position can make or break a table's play.

 

ANYONE's play can ultimately affect the rest of the table, not just whoever is at 3rd base.

 

Much to my hubby's dismay, I rarely double down, even with a dealer 4,5,6. I have no luck on double downs. BUT my refusal to part with more money has no impact to anyone else's game play.

 

That's not entirely true. Generally when you double down you only get one additional card, even if you might want two or more. If you don't double, and subsequently choose to take two (or more) cards, you have essentially changed what would happen to the rest of the table had you doubled down and only gotten one card. As always, that might benefit or hurt you, and it might benefit or hurt the rest of the table. It's your choice, but don't continue to think incorrectly that your decision doesn't affect anyone else. ;)

[waterbug123]

Obviously you don't understand the game either. A bad play like the one the OP related could cause the whole table to loose by taking a ten the dealer should have drawn.

 

And it could just as likely cause the whole table to win if if makes the dealer bust.

 

Do some of you realize that some players get really ticked off if you sit down at a table in the middle of a shoe?

 

If it's near the end of the shoe, I'll just wait. If it's the middle of the shoe, common courtesy says to ask the other players if they mind you sitting down to play or if they want you to wait. Sometimes someone will say they're on a winning streak and do I mind waiting (either for a new shoe, or for them to lose a hand or two) and I am happy to do so. Other times, if things aren't going well, they'll say yes please, maybe it will change things up.

[fla742]

I've read the book, and know the odds and what I'm 'supposed' to do. However, it is still my choice if I want to push the odds. It is more fun to win against the odds - at least for me.

 

I don't agree that it would ruin the shoe. It may ruin my game, but no-one knows what the next card will be. It could be a face card or a 2. Yes, we want the dealer to go over - but what I do may or may not affect that at all.

 

I agree - he should play at the $50 Table. I stick with the $5 and $10 tables.

 

No - it may or may not ruin the shoe, but it will ruin that hand. Although I would never say anything to those who play against the odds, I will leave the table if there is consistent playing against the odds.

[1Gizmo]

A game of chance. I once split 8's and drew another 8. Had four hands all over 17. Dealer had a low card. Dealer took his hits and came out at 21. argh!. My wife enjoys playing and wins more often than I. But she will only play a table where the dealer is interacting with the players. Remember the house always win.

[gsb]

Remember the house always win.

 

Not true--Over all for the long run with all players considered, yes.

Or, you can be lucky and get out while you're ahead.

And, card counters have the odds in their favor and in the long run they will win.;)

[Queen of Oakville]

Since Celebrity uses a continuous shuffle no middle of the shoe scenarios.

 

Obviously you believe what say, but that does not necessarily make it true. Do you also believe that the flip of a coin is somehow impacted by the previous flip or flips?

 

OP, thanks for starting this thread. I find it interesting to read what people believe. Although the casino makes money from the occasional player who plays hunches I am convinced they make most of their money from the people who think they have it figured out.

 

Good luck to all who play.

 

As has been noted, celebrity (I've only sailed Reflection) doesn't use the continuous shuffle. Personally, I prefer the break while the dealer shuffles. If it can be avoided, I won't sit down at a table with an auto-shuffler.

 

ANYONE's play can ultimately affect the rest of the table, not just whoever is at 3rd base.

 

 

 

That's not entirely true. Generally when you double down you only get one additional card, even if you might want two or more. If you don't double, and subsequently choose to take two (or more) cards, you have essentially changed what would happen to the rest of the table had you doubled down and only gotten one card. As always, that might benefit or hurt you, and it might benefit or hurt the rest of the table. It's your choice, but don't continue to think incorrectly that your decision doesn't affect anyone else. ;)

 

ha ha. I was waiting for someone to catch this. If the table is full and there is a lot of money on the table, I will only take one card as a courtesy to others, and but I won't put more money down. If it's just DH and I - I'll draw. However, "my luck" says that when I don't double, I draw a 10 and when I do, I draw a small card. So it usually works out that the table is unaffected by my game play.

 

 

 

 

I think we can all agree, per the OP's scenario that the guy who lambasted her was rude and out of line.

 

I think we can also all agree that you should gamble with people who play the same way you do. That is why I always watch a table before I sit down. If someone sits down at an established and is not playing to my liking, I will leave the table.

 

 

 

Someone mentioned the dealers in Vegas who won't let you join mid-shoe. I think it is courtesy to "ask" if you can join a shoe in progress. I always do. Rarely, will anyone say no - unless the table is on a major winning streak. Often, I will just sit and tell the dealer I will wait for the next shoe. If the players at the table urge me to join, I will.

 

As with all things in life, a little courtesy goes a long way.

[DirtyDawg]

From blackjackage.com:

 

Many blackjack players believe that having bad players at the table hurt their chances of winning. If a player hits when he should have stayed or stays when he should have hit then many of the other players at the table may believe that this is throwing off the flow of the game, messing with the order of the cards and hurting the chances of all the other players at the table. This goes along with the following myths-that the order of the cards is sacred and that you should avoid choosing the last position at the table.

 

In reality, mathematically speaking, bad players have no real effect on the outcome of the game. While they may throw off your concentration or get on your nerves, it's a myth that they can seriously affect your chances by playing at your table.

 

Finis!

 

Fascinating thread. I don't gamble on cruises or in Vegas (I 'gamble' for a living.;)) and I never realized gamblers thought of Blackjack as a team sport or that how others played affected them in any real, mathematical way. Fascinating. After reading this thread I am tempted to go to the casino on my next cruise and observe this gamblers' behavior.:confused: