Question about traveling with minor without legal guardianship

[BellaChita]

You do know she will need a photo ID right?

 

 

Yes, photo ID isn't a problem. I was more concerned about documents signed by her parents but Carnival said no problem.

[loxley]

I took my step daughter on a cruise with CCL and they wanted a letter from the mother and father for me to board. I know others will say they have never had to prove it, but I had the paperwork and they did ask. Same happened coming into the US from Canada. We all had passports but since the mom and dad were not with us the Border Patrol pulled the two girls out of the car and questioned all of us for about an hour. Almost missed our flight out of Buffalo.

 

And to add, this is from https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/268/~/children---child-traveling-with-one-parent-or-someone-who-is-not-a-parent-or

 

If a child (under the age of 18) is traveling with only one parent or someone who is not a parent or legal guardian, what paperwork should the adult have to indicate permission or legal authority to have that child in their care?

 

Due to the increasing incidents of child abductions in disputed custody cases and as possible victims of child pornography, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) strongly recommends that unless the child is accompanied by both parents, the adult have a note from the child's other parent (or, in the case of a child traveling with grandparents, uncles or aunts, sisters or brothers, friends, or in groups*, a note signed by both parents) stating "I acknowledge that my wife/husband/etc. is traveling out of the country with my son/daughter/group. He/She/They has/have my permission to do so." See our Q&A parental consent.

 

* School groups, teen tours, vacation groups.

 

CBP also suggests that this note be notarized.

 

While CBP may not ask to see this documentation, if we do ask, and you do not have it, you may be detained until the circumstances of the child traveling without both parents can be fully assessed. If there is no second parent with legal claims to the child (deceased, sole custody, etc.) any other relevant paperwork, such as a court decision, birth certificate naming only one parent, death certificate, etc., would be useful.

 

Adults traveling with children should also be aware that, while the U.S. does not require this documentation, many other countries do; failure to produce notarized permission letters and/or birth certificates could result in travelers being refused entry (Canada has very strict requirements in this regard).

 

As Judge Milan of the Peoples Court says, "Do I believe you or my lying eyes".

 

 

Case closed.

 

There you go OP. Did you notice nowhere does it say you must prove guardianship?

 

I hope you and Emma have a fun cruise.

[Colin B]

I think Stolid Cruiser has hit the nail on the head.

 

Nobody else's experiences matter, nor (really) do the relevant laws. What matters is what is going to happen when you front up to the gangplank and that depends on the Company's policies and the attitude of the individual "gatekeeper" in charge.

 

Go to the Company's office if necessary and get a letter or other piece of official paper from them stating that you and your niece can travel together. That way you will know exactly where you stand.

[jacksmycat]

From what was posted above from Carnival, it sounds like the paperwork you plan to bring will be fine. However, I would call Carnival again and make sure you get the same answer that you got before. And in writing like others have suggested. Maybe an email? On another note, if this child ever has to have surgery or emergency treatment, it will be much easier and faster if you have proper documentation that you are her legal guardian. Not on the cruise but anytime. I work in a pediatric hospital and people bring children in all the time without proper legal guardianship paperwork and it delays treatment. You should definitely check into it again after your cruise.

[emdia43]

Carnival ' s website states that they strongly recommend having a signed permission letter

when boarding with a minor where the parents are not sailing. Apparently it's not a requirement -I was surprised at this, as I have cruised with my grandsons numerous times on various cruise lines and always needed the notarized statements at check-in.....

[jacksmycat]

In lieu of the signed permission letter she would have a birth certificate with no father's name and a death certificate of the mother. I would think Carnival would understand that there could be no permission letter.

[jacksmom09]

We are taking our 8 year old grandaughter on a Carnival cruise in Aug and I was told I have to have a letter from her guardian. I asked if it has to be notarized and was told "no". I did go ahead and get a notarized letter anyway, just in case. We cruised on Disney with her last summer and was told to download the letter on there site and have it signed, but nobody ever asked to see it! I hope I have gotten the right info for taking her!

[45014]

We are cruising with our grandchildren and when we called Carnival they said it was not necessary to have a note from the parents, but they. DID strongly suggest that we have one. I would be very concerned in the OP case. Get some legal advice or try to postpone for now. I would not take the chance of getting to the ship and being turned away. Just my opinion.

[StolidCruiser]

Such as yourself?

 

Yes. Which is why my further advice was to contact the cruiseline for a conclusive definitive answer. Something almost no one else recommended who claimed the OP would be fine.

Edited May 29, 2015 by StolidCruiser

[Elaine5715]

I think there's another point. Without legal guardianship, this 13 years old child is technically a functionally emancipated minor. Should she choose not to reboard in port, no one can force her on. The caring aunt can't authorize medical care. The aunt is not legally responsible to pay any debts of the child.

 

To the OP, I work with disabled adults who have guardianship. The court appoints an attorney for the person to represent them . The family members who are accepting guardianship responsibilities NEVER have an attorney. The only time I have seen private attorneys representing parents in guardianship hearings is when there are a difference of opinions in needing a guardian or when there's lots of money in play.

[dadroy]

While CBP may not ask to see this documentation, if we do ask, and you do not have it, you may be detained until the circumstances of the child traveling without both parents can be fully assessed. If there is no second parent with legal claims to the child (deceased, sole custody, etc.) any other relevant paperwork, such as a court decision, birth certificate naming only one parent, death certificate, etc., would be useful.

 

If the OP does not mind being detained until the circumstances can be fully assessed, (which could be for weeks) I guess you could say go for it. But with child abduction problems, just claiming "my sister passed, without telling who the father is, they could have a major headache being cleared"

 

Do you feel lucky? How easy would it be for a kidnapper to take a kid on a cruise and hop off the ship in a foreign country. Big gamble for me, but then I don't play the lottery either. I would get legal first, that way there would be no problem.

[n6uqqq]

While CBP may not ask to see this documentation, if we do ask, and you do not have it, you may be detained until the circumstances of the child traveling without both parents can be fully assessed. If there is no second parent with legal claims to the child (deceased, sole custody, etc.) any other relevant paperwork, such as a court decision, birth certificate naming only one parent, death certificate, etc., would be useful.

 

If the OP does not mind being detained until the circumstances can be fully assessed, (which could be for weeks) I guess you could say go for it. But with child abduction problems, just claiming "my sister passed, without telling who the father is, they could have a major headache being cleared"

 

Do you feel lucky? How easy would it be for a kidnapper to take a kid on a cruise and hop off the ship in a foreign country. Big gamble for me, but then I don't play the lottery either. I would get legal first, that way there would be no problem.

 

With a thirteen year old she would not be detained for weeks. It would be about a minute ( if ever) for them to pull the girl aside and ask her if she knows the person and is traveling under her free will. The only people asking these questions would be US customs after the cruise.

Edited May 29, 2015 by n6uqqq

[JVilleGal]

Do you have the same last names?

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

Oh my gosh...thousands and thousands of children cruise without their parents, whether it be grandparents, step parents, aunts, uncles or friends. If every passenger had to prove guardianship of the child they bring on board no ship would ever leave.

 

The child needs their certified birth certificate and a picture ID. End of story. If the person traveling with the child cannot make medical decisions then they do need a medical permission slip....but this is an after the fact issue that only protects the medical professional in cases where care later becomes an issue.

 

With half of kids not even sharing the same last name as their parent(s) because of divorce or parents keeping their "own" names it is apparent that parentage and guardianship is not an issue on cruise ships....they aren't law enforcement. Only if the non-traveling divorced parent pre-notifies the cruise line with legal proof that they have not given permission is there ever an issue.

 

Have fun traveling with 'YOUR CHILD' and my heartfelt good wishes and sincere thanks for accepting this child into your life and assuming responsibility for them.

[loxley]

While CBP may not ask to see this documentation, if we do ask, and you do not have it, you may be detained until the circumstances of the child traveling without both parents can be fully assessed. If there is no second parent with legal claims to the child (deceased, sole custody, etc.) any other relevant paperwork, such as a court decision, birth certificate naming only one parent, death certificate, etc., would be useful.

 

If the OP does not mind being detained until the circumstances can be fully assessed, (which could be for weeks) I guess you could say go for it. But with child abduction problems, just claiming "my sister passed, without telling who the father is, they could have a major headache being cleared"

 

Do you feel lucky? How easy would it be for a kidnapper to take a kid on a cruise and hop off the ship in a foreign country. Big gamble for me, but then I don't play the lottery either. I would get legal first, that way there would be no problem.

 

Are you serious? Are you really serious? SMH

 

I don't know what it is with people wanting to scare people on this site. She will be FINE. She has all the paperwork anyone would need to figure things out. 99% chance she will not be asked for anything, but if she is, she has it.

 

There is NO, as in NO, father listed. That is the end of that story.

 

Border patrol may not be the brightest bulbs in the box in general, but I bet they are smart enough to understand this.

 

If what you say is true, every full blown parent could be held up for weeks. Why you may ask, because just because you are listed on the birth cert does not mean you actually have the legal right to make decisions for that child. Maybe the grandparents were given full custody and the parents just stole them to take them on a cruise. It would probably take weeks to dig thru everything to make sure no legal paper was over looked and that said parents do or do not have the legal right to take their kids. How deep do you want to dig here?

 

We have one woman claiming if the child does not want to get back on the ship, nobody can make her. Bull.

 

This woman's sister is dead. She has taken this child into her home and raised her for the past 5 years. A good home I am assuming as she is wanting to take her on a cruise. This child has no father listed. It is a good chance her mother had no idea who to put. But in your warped opinion the sister should have named this person before her death?

 

This is this woman's 13 yr old niece. Not a child she picked up on her way to the port. She has all the papers she needs to show why the child is with her.

 

I agree she probably needs to get legal papers but that can be taken care of when she gets back and I hope the OP paid attention to some of the low cost options given here. I asked my BIL who is a lawyer and he said she should check with the clerk of court where she lives and they should have the papers she will need or tell her where to get them. Fill them out, show the birth and death cert and they will do what they need to do to get the judge to look at it. He said you may have to go in to see the judge, but probably not. He was not sure what it will cost, but said everything should be less than $100.

 

Some of you people need to get real. She is taking her on a cruise, not to China, where btw, no paperwork would be needed either. I just looked it up.

 

OP, take your paperwork and enjoy your cruise.

 

I knew they were going to try to do this to you.

[trixiegal]

My kid's father is deceased and I have NEVER been asked for the death certificate on any of our many cruises. I would take it with me, if I was you, just in case.

 

I'd also pursue legal guardianship after the cruise if that is really something you want to do. Kudos to you for stepping up to the plate and being a mom to your niece!

Edited May 29, 2015 by trixiegal

[bell777]

I am taking my son's friend which is 16 years old and when i called they said all i needed was his passport and a letter from either parent saying i had guardianship for the duration of the trip. And it did not need to be notarized but i will be getting it notarized anyways.

 

I have seen on RCCL a minor not allowed on the ship for lack of documentation so they do check.

 

I would go down to the port authority and find out from them what is the correct documents you would be required as they are the ones whom have the final word. Or the very least call immigration and ask them. I think although Carnival is indicating what they require it is ultimately coming from the immigration department which are the ones that regulate who comes in or leaves the country and what documents are required. This is just my opinion though.

[crewsweeper]

Thanks. I have already tried that. They want a 5k retainer before they will give any advice. There is not time for me to obtain legal guardianship prior to our cruise. I am just wondering if anyone has experienced a similar situation and what documents were acceptable to the cruise line.

 

Also my sister was 28 and had no assets, estate or will.

That sounds like they're looking at an adoption proceedings versus just guardianship. As someone else suggested here, ask Legal Aid, or similar agency in your area. Each state handles these things differently. And if there was any executor or probate handling your sister's death, follow through with that firm (unless it's the same one asking for $5K in advance).

[Elaine5715]

In many of these cases cited, the minor children do have parents or a legal guardian, just not with them on ship.

In the OP's situation, they seem to have something going on different. Without a court order, there is no one legally responsible for the child. No different then if you plucked a child from an orphanage. The aunt has no more legal or financial responsibility for this child than I do for the same child. So Carnival would be crazy to accept on board a child who has no legal guardian anywhere. The boarding identification is the least of it.

The court should have appointed an adult guardian after the mother's passing. The child would likely be eligible for Social Security dependent benefits.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Elaine5715

[Purvis1231]

When minors (18 and under) are not traveling with a relative, we strongly recommend bringing an original signed letter from the absent parent/legal guardian authorizing the minor to travel.

[steph7021]

When we've taken my daughters friend cruising we have had the letter but they didn't ask for it. Didn't ask anything at all.

[bakersdozen12]

I am just wondering how you managed to register her for school or bring her to a doctor without being her guardian?

Are you completely sure this is an expensive thing to do legally?? I'd not want this to be left without something legal done. What happens if something happens to you??

Not just for cruising but I'd want something in writing somewhere1

 

 

I'm wondering about this as well. I don't understand how the OP has gotten away with not having legal guardianship of the girl. I know that my son's doctor has always required a note from me in order for my mother to be able to take him to the doctor's if he got sick while I was away on business trips. Plus, I don't understand how the OP would be able to sign anything for the girl's school without them asking about their relationship and requiring proof of guardianship.

 

To the OP: whatever the cost, you really need to get this done. I think in the long run, it will be in the best interest of your niece. Good luck!

Edited May 30, 2015 by bakersdozen12

[JVilleGal]

The next hurdle will be when this girl wants to drive.... DMV in any state will want papers showing "legal" guardianship, she won't be able to even get a learners permits much less legal photo ID.... And yes the child was eligible for Social Security? Very odd!

[DebJ14]

The next hurdle will be when this girl wants to drive.... DMV in any state will want papers showing "legal" guardianship, she won't be able to even get a learners permits much less legal photo ID.... And yes the child was eligible for Social Security? Very odd!

 

Money to cruise, but no money to get the guardianship issue taken care of? Interesting priorities.

 

This child should be receiving the benefits she is entitled to, but they would have go to the legal guardian for her benefit. I'm surprised Children's Protective Services didn't get involved when the child's mother died and they they would have sorted out who should be the guardian and get the ball rolling on the paperwork.

[trixiegal]

The next hurdle will be when this girl wants to drive.... DMV in any state will want papers showing "legal" guardianship, she won't be able to even get a learners permits much less legal photo ID.... And yes the child was eligible for Social Security? Very odd!

 

 

The eligible child will still receive SS benefits as a ward of the court. In fact, they can also receive additional benefits depending on the state.