Carnival to Cuba..any chance for Princess?

[shredie]

Sounds a little like censorship that might happen in a communist country:confused:

 

Haha! :D

[SeeBurd]

First, How about China! You mentioned the other countries but forgot about China. Check the clothing that you wear, and everything else in your home.

I have no ethical issues with travelling to any country, I have an ethical issue when a "government" tells me that I can NOT travel where I want to go. The USa is the only industrial country that forbade travel to Cuba. Not really that FREE are you?

We, as in myself and my husband ,both fiscally "conservative" persons, have been to Cuba and thoroughly enjoyed it. Safer than all US cities that we have visited, higher standard of health care than the US, as statistically proven by a lower infant mortality rate and high life expectancy. I could go on and quote a lot more statistics from the "CIA" about life in Cuba.

Anyway, PLEASE close this thread! I am tired of reading the "stuff" that is posted by individuals who have NOT travelled to Cuba and are not open minded to look at the "facts".

Have a great cruise everyone.

 

There will people that agree with you.

There will people that don't agree with you.

 

Neither is a reason to close down a thread.

[Colo Cruiser]

There will people that agree with you.

There will people that don't agree with you.

 

Neither is a reason to close down a thread.

 

 

Some people just can't handle differing opinions. :rolleyes:

[icat2000]

I have no problems travelling to Cuba, would have gone sooner, its just difficult and expense to get to from Australia as I have to either route through Canada or Mexico.

 

I have travelled to lots of countries where the politics and past histories are and have been questionable. But I travel to see the world from my own eyes and to have my own experiences.

[Aloha 1]

First, How about China! You mentioned the other countries but forgot about China. Check the clothing that you wear, and everything else in your home.

I have no ethical issues with travelling to any country, I have an ethical issue when a "government" tells me that I can NOT travel where I want to go. The USa is the only industrial country that forbade travel to Cuba. Not really that FREE are you?

We, as in myself and my husband ,both fiscally "conservative" persons, have been to Cuba and thoroughly enjoyed it. Safer than all US cities that we have visited, higher standard of health care than the US, as statistically proven by a lower infant mortality rate and high life expectancy. I could go on and quote a lot more statistics from the "CIA" about life in Cuba.

Anyway, PLEASE close this thread! I am tired of reading the "stuff" that is posted by individuals who have NOT travelled to Cuba and are not open minded to look at the "facts".

Have a great cruise everyone.

 

Never said never. Re read my post. Show me how travel to Cuba will benefit the PEOPLE not the government. It's a totalitarian state built on bullets. It's my personal choice. You don't agree that's your choice, but you can't shut down the conversation just because you don't like it's direction.

[Christine Frances]

Never said never. Re read my post. Show me how travel to Cuba will benefit the PEOPLE not the government. It's a totalitarian state built on bullets. It's my personal choice. You don't agree that's your choice, but you can't shut down the conversation just because you don't like it's direction.

 

 

Cuba started about 4 years ago to allow private enterprise opportunities to Cubans and it has rapidly expanded. Here is one article. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/09/28/cuba-begins-to-unite-private-enterprise-tourism/16332835/

[Aloha 1]

Cuba started about 4 years ago to allow private enterprise opportunities to Cubans and it has rapidly expanded. Here is one article. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/09/28/cuba-begins-to-unite-private-enterprise-tourism/16332835/

 

Sounds like just another "five year plan". Worker Cooperatives under the "benevolent" aegis of the Politburo. You really think those 200 home owners had a choice?

 

When Cuba frees all political prisoners, allows private ownership of State controlled assets, protects property rights for citizens, frees the foreign political prisoners it holds, including four Americans, and extradites the murderers it has harbored for decades, then and only then will I believe change is happening.

 

Now, let's return this thread back to its original question: Will Princess sail to Cuba? My answer, sure, someday. But today is not and should not be that day.

[Colo Cruiser]

Sounds like just another "five year plan". Worker Cooperatives under the "benevolent" aegis of the Politburo. You really think those 200 home owners had a choice?

 

When Cuba frees all political prisoners, allows private ownership of State controlled assets, protects property rights for citizens, frees the foreign political prisoners it holds, including four Americans, and extradites the murderers it has harbored for decades, then and only then will I believe change is happening.

 

Now, let's return this thread back to its original question: Will Princess sail to Cuba? My answer, sure, someday. But today is not and should not be that day.

 

I agree, control by the Gov't is tight. Just because someone flies there a few times and visits for vacation does not mean things have changed or that the Cuban people are any better off.

[Christine Frances]

Works for me! That means the rest of the world can continue to enjoy Cuba before it is over run:D

[WpgCruise]

Christine, I agree completely.

 

With over 3 million tourist visits per year, obviously Cuba appeals to many. The opinions of some on an internet cruising form probably don't really matter.

 

The reality is that Cuba is a desired tourist destination, for both U.S. and non U.S. citizens. The cruise industry recognizes the potential which is why there are now several cruise lines positioning themselves to take advantage of the market.

 

For those who have formed an opinion and choose not to visit Cuba, good for you.

 

We each decide what we'll do with our discretionary income, you make your choices, I'll make mine.

 

I'll respect your decision. Is it too much to ask you respect mine?

[capriccio]

Christine, I agree completely.

 

With over 3 million tourist visits per year, obviously Cuba appeals to many. The opinions of some on an internet cruising form probably don't really matter.

 

The reality is that Cuba is a desired tourist destination, for both U.S. and non U.S. citizens. The cruise industry recognizes the potential which is why there are now several cruise lines positioning themselves to take advantage of the market.

 

For those who have formed an opinion and choose not to visit Cuba, good for you.

 

We each decide what we'll do with our discretionary income, you make your choices, I'll make mine.

 

I'll respect your decision. Is it too much to ask you respect mine?

 

This is one of the best comments on this thread.

 

Make no mistake, Princess is a business and will make a decision to go/not go to Cuba based on bottom line factors. When/if the time comes Princess will not force anyone to go to Cuba. Make your personal choices just as you do for any other itinerary.

 

This thread is an example of why we never discuss politics (or religion or income) with fellow cruisers. I really don't care to share my opinions nor care about their opinions on these subjects. Now if you want to discuss interesting places you have been or plan to visit, we're all in!

[St Paul Girl]

This is one of the best comments on this thread.

 

Make no mistake, Princess is a business and will make a decision to go/not go to Cuba based on bottom line factors. When/if the time comes Princess will not force anyone to go to Cuba. Make your personal choices just as you do for any other itinerary.

 

This thread is an example of why we never discuss politics (or religion or income) with fellow cruisers. I really don't care to share my opinions nor care about their opinions on these subjects. Now if you want to discuss interesting places you have been or plan to visit, we're all in!

 

I have been reading the last few comments and I will give one of many non-political reasons why some Americans should visit Cuba( I have a lot more where this came from) because I have visited Cuba and continue correspondence with other medical colleagues:

 

"Heberprot-p".

 

Google it and if you are a diabetic person, this would help you greatly with your life(disease). The American media are finally starting to notice the medical advances being made by the large Medical Research facilities in Cuba.

Have a great cruise everyone:

[caribill]

 

When Cuba frees all political prisoners, allows private ownership of State controlled assets, protects property rights for citizens, frees the foreign political prisoners it holds, including four Americans, and extradites the murderers it has harbored for decades, then and only then will I believe change is happening.

 

 

It will be easy to tell when change is happening.

 

It will be when Cubans no longer risk their lives to get to the USA via rickety boats and some Cubans who are in the USA want to move back to Cuba.

[Colo Cruiser]

It will be easy to tell when change is happening.

 

It will be when Cubans no longer risk their lives to get to the USA via rickety boats and some Cubans who are in the USA want to move back to Cuba.

 

 

Yes I agree. :(

[Christine Frances]

It will be easy to tell when change is happening.

 

It will be when Cubans no longer risk their lives to get to the USA via rickety boats and some Cubans who are in the USA want to move back to Cuba.

 

 

Actually the rickety boat people will stop after normalization with the U.S. Only because there is a high probability that the "wet foot dry foot" policy will end and a normal visa system with the normal long waits will be put in place. They would rather try now to make the dangerous 3 day trip, hopefully make land and have legal residency after a year.

 

Can you imagine how many people would arrive on US soil if that path to legal residency applied to other countries as well?

[Aloha 1]

Actually the rickety boat people will stop after normalization with the U.S. Only because there is a high probability that the "wet foot dry foot" policy will end and a normal visa system with the normal long waits will be put in place. They would rather try now to make the dangerous 3 day trip, hopefully make land and have legal residency after a year.

 

Can you imagine how many people would arrive on US soil if that path to legal residency applied to other countries as well?

 

Don't you ever ask yourself WHY Cubans have been risking their lives for years to escape if the country is so great to live in?

 

As Lenin once said, "the fools will sell us the rope we will use to hang them".

 

OK, You get my point and opinion. Out

[cruiserus]

We heard a national travel expert speaking about this on KGO radio this past weekend. The new Carnival Cruise Corporation cruise line, called Fathom will have one ship that goes to the Dominican Republic which is purely a sail/volunteer cruise. Apparently, there is a growing interest in these types of trips. The other ship, a former Renaissance Cruise Line ship that has been refurbished, will do a 7 day cruise to ports in Cuba. I think 4 days in Cuba, but I am not 100% sure. It will not be a volunteer cruise where people go to work in the community. It will be a themed cruise with cultural exchange in mind. There will be pre-cruise information with learning about the Cuban culture, and then while ashore in Cuba, passengers will experience the culture in many different ways. It is similar to some of the land tours currently offered to Cuba from the US which can focus on religion, culture, the arts, or whatever. Cost of all onshore activities will be included in the cruise fare. I'm sure more information will be coming out in the future.

[chengkp75]

We heard a national travel expert speaking about this on KGO radio this past weekend. The new Carnival Cruise Corporation cruise line, called Fathom will have one ship that goes to the Dominican Republic which is purely a sail/volunteer cruise. Apparently, there is a growing interest in these types of trips. The other ship, a former Renaissance Cruise Line ship that has been refurbished, will do a 7 day cruise to ports in Cuba. I think 4 days in Cuba, but I am not 100% sure. It will not be a volunteer cruise where people go to work in the community. It will be a themed cruise with cultural exchange in mind. There will be pre-cruise information with learning about the Cuban culture, and then while ashore in Cuba, passengers will experience the culture in many different ways. It is similar to some of the land tours currently offered to Cuba from the US which can focus on religion, culture, the arts, or whatever. Cost of all onshore activities will be included in the cruise fare. I'm sure more information will be coming out in the future.

 

It is the same ship, that will alternate weeks between the DR and Cuba. No, it will not be humanitarian aid like building schools and water supplies in the DR, but it does not have shows onboard but cultural lessons instead. The guests will have to meet a requirement of 8 hours of people to people cultural exchange every day. The Treasury Dept. requires that "typical" tourist excursions will be limited.

 

Yes, this is similar to the land tours offered to US citizens, as these require the tours to meet one of the specific conditions that are "supposed" to benefit the Cuban people.

[icat2000]

Just got an email from MSC Cruises about couple of cruises re Cuba

 

MSC Opera will set sail on a 20-night Grand Voyage from Genoa to Cuba on 2 December 2015.

 

On 22 December 2015, MSC Opera will commence her weekly departures from Havana.

 

On 12 April 2016, MSC Opera will return to Europe on a 25-night Grand Voyage from Havana to Warnemunde.

 

So won't be long until others follow suit.

[cruising cockroach]

and extradites the murderers it has harbored for decades,.

 

The U.S. can certainly send those involve in the bombing of Cubana 455 and other terror attacks to Cuba....

 

http://www.salon.com/2008/01/14/cuba_2/

[cruising cockroach]

Don't you ever ask yourself WHY Cubans have been risking their lives for years to escape if the country is so great to live in?

 

Like all those economic refugees from friendly dictatorships and former dictatorships in central America...

 

Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras.... (accounts for about 3/4 of illegal immigrants to the U.S.)

[cruising cockroach]

I just have too many bad memories of what Castro did to his people, killing and imprisoning anyone who didn't agree with him. .

 

Augusto Pinochet, Argentinean Junta... All friends of the U.S.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_in_Pinochet's_Chile

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/argentina.htm

[cruiselvr1]

To be clear, it's Carnival Corporation that received approval for their "fathom" brand, not Carnival Cruise Lines. fathom is the new brand where you pay an arm and a leg (something like $3,000/pp for seven days) to volunteer your time helping the disadvantaged. It's just a shame that Castro destroyed the country so that they need the help. I'm not convinced that money spent by tourists isn't going to go directly back to the dictatorship government.

Pam we love reading your post remarks. I also agree about going to Cuba, NO THANKS..

[cruising cockroach]

3 million Canadians go to Cuba each year plus double that from Europe.

 

More like ONE million Canadians yearly...

[cruising cockroach]

I've been reading & watching specials on traveling to Cuba. I don't think the people are benefitting from tourism,

 

They are. Resort workers getting tips (so much so that teachers have been banned from quitting to working in resorts.)

 

Lots of private restaurants (paladars), independent taxis and busses, private houses for tourists (casa particulare), tour guides, whole gamut.

 

either. NBC stated Cubans only earn $15-20/month.

 

Because the cost of living, if you are not seeking to buy foreign good, is low. People are adequately fed and not going hungry and begging like you see in a lot of capitalist, U.S.-friendly countries in Latin America.

 

Child mortality rates are lower than in the U.S. and life expectancy is just as high.

 

MSC Opera will be based out of Havana this December. I don't get it; I really don't.

Just because it's more accessible now, doesn't mean we should go there.

This is the #1 place I'd feel unsafe.

 

Please stay at home. Cuba doesn't need you.