NCL: A Contrarian View

[Homosassa]

Dr. Cocktail, I agree with your post. I have a similar cruise history (including an inside cabin on the Chandris Britanis and cruises on Sitmar).

 

I, for one, am closely watching the restructuring of the NCL fee schedule. I wonder if it is an attempt to reposition the line demographically with a different client base?

 

Right now, to me, NCL is one of the bottom feeders along with Carnival Cruise Lines and RCI (lol- couldn't agree more about the RCI buffet).

 

I am hoping that all the NCL changes finally shakes out with an uptick in food quality and a more uniform approach in service to all its passengers on one of its ships. The idea of a "ship within a ship" drives me crazy. I don't want to be segregated in a tiny portion of the ship to receive the better quality service and food that the various suites, Haven cabins, etc now receive.

 

If Mr. DelRio is trying to attract the cruisers who are willing to pay more for overall quality, there are some of us watching and hoping that he is successful.

[david_sobe]

Yes most everywhere else in today's economy there are cut backs and price increases. The difference is what NCL has done over the past 6 months. They change every day with announcing so many increases and cut backs not to mention the cut backs that are not that obvious. Of course NCL is going to get flack with the ridiculous amounts of changes and prices increases. Cant take food back to the cabin.... ok that lasted about 2 weeks and then it changed again. Add more gratuity 5 months ago....ok now we are adding more gratuity at specialty restaurants....ok we are not done yet.....we are increasing the gratuity again. Every day is a new increase, change or cut back. So its completely normal to get even the most loyal customer to vent a little. That is normal and understandable. Even your favorite land restaurant would be under attack if they changed this much in 5 months.

But no matter how much people complain...they will do it anyway and will continue to do it. As long as bookings are strong.... expect even more cut backs and price increases to maximum profit. It happens at every business.

Edited July 18, 2015 by david_sobe

[BamaVol]

I agree with the OP. But it's a waste of breath. Apparently some would prefer an annual $100 increase in the base price of cruises. Fine, but I prefer smaller increases in items that I can decide whether to partake of. NCL still sells a product I want at a price I'm willing to pay. Life is short. I plan to end it with an empty bank account.

[Froggitt]

If Mr. DelRio is trying to attract the cruisers who are willing to pay more for overall quality, there are some of us watching and hoping that he is successful.

 

Doesn't he already own a couple of cruiselines catering for the "pay more" demographic? Isnt NCL his "mass market" cruiseline?

[sparks1093]

I plan to end it with an empty bank account.

 

Keep cruising with NCL and Del Rio will ensure it;):D.

 

If this whole thing was only about cutbacks it wouldn't be as concerning, but it is about the change in direction NCL is making under the new management. Some will like it, some won't.

[ellen4257]

What is most upsetting to most people is that changes are made after the fact. Have a large family group sailing August 1 which was booked in January. Most of us book a vacation with a specific budget and even "small" changes effect that. If corporate wants more revenue then charge it up front in the price so we know what we are getting into. This isn't about the value of the cruise in general, we all agree on that.. This is about feeding into the "nickel and dining" attitude that just seems to be getting worse.

[Homosassa]

Doesn't he already own a couple of cruiselines catering for the "pay more" demographic? Isnt NCL his "mass market" cruiseline?

 

Yes, but there is "mass market" and "mass market."

 

NCL is missing an important market demographic that can afford to frequently cruise and prefers to pay up front for the quality for service, food, and entertainment that is available to all without intervention by a concierge that is only available by segregation into a small portion of the ship.

 

Some get off on the ego boost of the privileges; others would rather that a uniform approach to all is sustainable once they are on board ship.

[hypercafe]

Prices go up, prices go down. What I do not like is the way they lock you in and then change the rules. All lines do it. Once past final payment since you can not get out of the trip the rules you booked with should stay in effect.

[HACKT]

Completely agree with OP. All "value" cruise lines (NCL, RCI, Carnival) are cutting back on quality and raising prices on extras. But cabin prices are still very reasonable. NCL just gets bad publicity because they announce their increases instead of surprising folks on ship ( RCI drinks now $12).

So go elsewhere. I priced all-inclusive in Cancun which is $400 per day for 2 and only has one destination. Cruising still best deal. [emoji41]

[Travelling2Some]

Friction in families because their spoiled children can't have room service anytime they want, how about that?! . . . If these kids worst experience of doing without is no room service, welcome to the real world, deal with it.

 

Agree! While our kids did enjoy the room service as teens I can't even imagine them being so ungrateful that they'd give us grief. And why would anyone have to "sell" their kids on a cruise? If they don't appreciate their hard working parents taking them on a nice vacation then I say leave them home until their attitude improves!

[Jane Don]

 

If Mr. DelRio is trying to attract the cruisers who are willing to pay more for overall quality, there are some of us watching and hoping that he is successful.

 

 

NCLH already has 2 lines that offer the experience you speak of. Oceania and Regent. It makes no sense to elevate NCL's market position as it would be competing with itself. I see these changes taking NCL in the opposite direction. Low fares with lots of extra fees, a growing discrepancy between haven and coach class service and a decrease in overall quality of both food and crew to passenger ratios. They want to compete with Carnival and distance itself from other NCLH lines.

 

Aside from that, I see NCL as having some sort minor cash flow crisis at the moment. Offering very generous upgrades for people to move their sail date from 2016 to 2015, ala carte encouraging people to buy SDP now and the grab at prepaid grats for future sailings indicate this. None of these moves affects the balance sheet, but they do generate cash sooner. Brand new big ships are expensive and I surmise there is a major payment due.

 

I am merely speculating for the sake of discussion.

[Aquahound]

That's a lot of effort expended to convince absolutely no one but the zealots.

 

Yeah, like someone else already stated, I too agree with your realist post. As a "free agent" cruiser myself, I don't really agree with his comparisons. Although all the the cruise lines have been cutting back, raising the added costs and changing policies, no one has done it so blatantly and frequently as NCL has.

[punkincc]

Perhaps NCL made a fatal error in actually telling people that they were cutting back as opposed to Royal Caribbean/Celebrity where the on board product was noticeably worse each time you sailed on them without them actually announcing the cutbacks.

 

NCL made their "fatal error", when right out of the starting gate, FDR announced that his goal was to squeeze an additional $50 odd dollars out of each cruiser ( and he has gone far beyond that at this point ) and then followed that up with his comments about how we were "captive audiences".

 

Couple that with the ham handed way they have handled every change, ametuerish at best, and a situation has been created where loyal NCL cruisers are overly sensitized to these changes which are clearly seen as forays into our pockets. It seems that they have no respect for our intelligence ( consider the take out ban excuse blamed on slovenly passengers and halls piled with garbage:rolleyes: when everyone could clearly see it as a plan to force room service for a fee orders, and now Andy Stuart says that the change to a la carte specialties was done to basically save us all money ). Raising the Daily Service charges twice in 5 months? Seems like a money grab to me.

 

You make some good points about NCL, but it is hard to look past some things. I no longer have much respect for them and the way they do business.

[kcwingwalker]

I agree with the OP. But it's a waste of breath. Apparently some would prefer an annual $100 increase in the base price of cruises. Fine, but I prefer smaller increases in items that I can decide whether to partake of. NCL still sells a product I want at a price I'm willing to pay. Life is short. I plan to end it with an empty bank account.

 

Agree and for now I'm still with NCL.

 

Life is short, but wish I knew the payout date. Then it would be an easy decision when it comes to booking. Have to keep that in mind when you are eyeing the Haven but good sense tells you to stay with the balcony:)

[SuiteTraveler]

Dr. Cocktail, I agree with you completely. Our first cruise in the 1990's was through the Panama Canal on Princess in a balcony and it cost $15,000 for 2 weeks. Cruising is so much cheaper now!

 

I also agree with you about the terrible buffet on RCCL. There are nowadays so few items and most of them are things I wouldn't eat - all carbs!

 

To me, the increase in tips on NCL is appropriate. The changes have been reasonable.

 

Also, I was on the Getaway the week that no food to be taken from the buffet or restaurants and fees for room service were implemented. Guess what? No one onboard seemed to care about these minor changes.

 

What I find curious is this: I'm not really certain some these people who are complaining so much about NCL have ever actually cruised on NCL because they don't seem to know certain things about how NCL operates, which anyone who has cruised NCL should know. So that brings me to what I think may be going on. There are people who get on the internet with the purpose of trying to impact a company's stock or cause problems for a company. These people may not even be customers of that company but they believe that they are engaging in some kind of activism by making damaging posts to cause maximum harm to these companies. They act in concert to try to influence others and cause as much damage to a company as they can. Unfortunately there are many online groups that do these things. And that's what I suspect may be going on here with some posters. They may be members of this type of group and they may have a goal of damaging NCL. They may, in fact, be internet hacktivists and not actual cruisers.

[DMH15]

Dr. Cocktail, I agree with your post. I have a similar cruise history (including an inside cabin on the Chandris Britanis and cruises on Sitmar).

 

 

 

I, for one, am closely watching the restructuring of the NCL fee schedule. I wonder if it is an attempt to reposition the line demographically with a different client base?

 

 

 

Right now, to me, NCL is one of the bottom feeders along with Carnival Cruise Lines and RCI (lol- couldn't agree more about the RCI buffet).

 

 

 

I am hoping that all the NCL changes finally shakes out with an uptick in food quality and a more uniform approach in service to all its passengers on one of its ships. The idea of a "ship within a ship" drives me crazy. I don't want to be segregated in a tiny portion of the ship to receive the better quality service and food that the various suites, Haven cabins, etc now receive.

 

 

 

If Mr. DelRio is trying to attract the cruisers who are willing to pay more for overall quality, there are some of us watching and hoping that he is successful.

 

I love the ship within a ship concept. Only those that want that type of cruise pay for it. The other 90% plus can cruise more affordably.

[anneep]

I haven't actually sailed with NCL yet, but we are booked for Europe April 2016 In haven family suite. It was by far the cheapest we found for that itinerary so there is no way I would cancel and go to another cruise line.

[cruzsnooze]

And you think RCI and Celebrity are NOT mass market?!

 

And it's naive,btw. [emoji5]️

I said they are mass market lines, you need to re read. I stated Azamara and xpedition were not mass market.

[swedish weave]

Doesn't he already own a couple of cruiselines catering for the "pay more" demographic? Isnt NCL his "mass market" cruiseline?

 

 

 

I believe Del Rio sold those two cruise lines to Apollo in 2007 and became a puppet for Apollo.

[Cruise4Real]

NCLH already has 2 lines that offer the experience you speak of. Oceania and Regent. It makes no sense to elevate NCL's market position as it would be competing with itself. I see these changes taking NCL in the opposite direction. Low fares with lots of extra fees, a growing discrepancy between haven and coach class service and a decrease in overall quality of both food and crew to passenger ratios. They want to compete with Carnival and distance itself from other NCLH lines.

 

This makes a LOT of sense. I have had difficulty understanding the points that have been made by some others, e.g., that Del Rio wants to turn NCL into "Oceania-lite." Now granted the current promo gives UBP to everybody, while previously you had to cruise OV or better, so at this point the line is looking "all-inclusive" (or "mostly-inclusive") but these are promos and they could change at any point.

 

What I find truly funny are the large number of posters, generally "cheerleaders," who seem to believe that the best way to attract more "upscale" passengers is by raising prices. Well, sure, that does mean that the folks who book likely are a bit richer than those who pass (due to price), but overall you LOSE passengers by raising prices, that's just Econ 101!

 

And with three mega-ships on the way, there are a LOT of cabins to be filled. NCL isn't going to be able to do that by RAISING prices.

[Cruise4Real]

And another thought:

 

Frankly the whole mega-ship concept seems flawed. Of course there are economies of scale, but they aren't selling soap, the demand for which is pretty steady over time, so the bigger the factory the more profit to be made. They're selling cruises which, for any number of reasons, have wild fluctuations in demand over time. Yes, they can move the ships around to take advantage of winter vs. summer weather, or for other factors, but when the units you're moving hold 4000+ passengers, there is simply going to be difficulty matching demand and supply. It feels like boom or bust -- sometimes the ship is overflowing with humanity, other times it only fills on the basis of severe discounting. Del Rio is supposedly opposed to this and determined to change the culture of last minute "deals," but until he's able to figure out how to lay off workers on practically a WEEKLY basis, I simply don't see how they can fill Breakaway or the other mega-ships without continuing the dread practice of severe discounting in the off-peak weeks.

[ilovetotravel1977]

I agree with the OP. But it's a waste of breath. Apparently some would prefer an annual $100 increase in the base price of cruises. Fine, but I prefer smaller increases in items that I can decide whether to partake of. NCL still sells a product I want at a price I'm willing to pay. Life is short. I plan to end it with an empty bank account.

 

This.

 

On the Epic, we didn't have to think about going to the pay restaurants, all of the complimentary ones were great! So the a la carte increases won't affect us at all from cruising on NCL.

 

As for the second DSC increase, they should have just upped it by both amounts when they announced the first increase. It likely would have blown over by now, and they wouldn't have had to start a new price increase war with their customers.

[NLH Arizona]

I agree with the OP. But it's a waste of breath. Apparently some would prefer an annual $100 increase in the base price of cruises. Fine, but I prefer smaller increases in items that I can decide whether to partake of. NCL still sells a product I want at a price I'm willing to pay. Life is short. I plan to end it with an empty bank account.

This is how I feel as well. I want the choice as to how I spend my money and not have everything rolled into my cruise fare (I don't do room service, so why would I have to pay for others to have it). I also cruise on Crystal and they went almost all-inclusive and, even though I still cruise with them it is no as much as I use to, because their price went up and I'm now paying for other's alcohol consumption (I don't drink that much), etc.

[Travelling2Some]

I'm finding it interesting to realize that reading all the complaint threads lately is having the opposite effect on me. We planned to try one of the upscale cruise lines next time now that the kids are grown and we sail as a couple. But I'm realizing that we're pretty low maintenance and might not find much value in the luxury experience. As long as the service is polite and efficient and we come back to a pleasant evening after the ports I'm happy with a mass market product. I'm one who would rather see NCL keep the base price down and offer extras for an additional fee.

[perditax]

NCL made their "fatal error", when right out of the starting gate, FDR announced that his goal was to squeeze an additional $50 odd dollars out of each cruiser ( and he has gone far beyond that at this point ) and then followed that up with his comments about how we were "captive audiences".

 

 

 

Couple that with the ham handed way they have handled every change, ametuerish at best, and a situation has been created where loyal NCL cruisers are overly sensitized to these changes which are clearly seen as forays into our pockets. It seems that they have no respect for our intelligence ( consider the take out ban excuse blamed on slovenly passengers and halls piled with garbage:rolleyes: when everyone could clearly see it as a plan to force room service for a fee orders, and now Andy Stuart says that the change to a la carte specialties was done to basically save us all money ). Raising the Daily Service charges twice in 5 months? Seems like a money grab to me.

 

 

 

You make some good points about NCL, but it is hard to look past some things. I no longer have much respect for them and the way they do business.

 

 

 

This is it right here. It is the spasmodic way in which they are behaving--"amateurish"--that does not inspire trust or loyalty.