Sad lack of special needs accommodation on Royal Caribbean

[Deedied]

We sailed July 4-11 from Puerto Rico with a family of 5, three teenage sons. My youngest son is 14 and has Down syndrome. He is a sweet boy and fairly independent but could never navigate around a ship such as this one on his own. We were told in advance via RC customer support to talk to the Adventure Ocean mgr and they would "work with us" so that he could participate. When we boarded we did just that, but they would not let him be in a younger group than his chronological age despite his mental delay and the fact that he needed to be in the next youngest room so he could be safely signed in and out, not just come and go as the teens do. We tried the manager and guest services, they flatly refused. We were frustrated and saddened, and our son had to go with us to shows and bars that he did not enjoy all the time on the ship. To spend so much money and be told to expect great service, we were saddened and disappointed, and especially sad for our son who is used to being able to play with other kids wherever he goes.We have cruised 5 times, but will not be sailing with Royal Caribbean again.

[Anita Latte]

This is very sad. And I imagine, very frustrating.

 

The literature that I have read always contains a loop hole. For instance, the quote "Royal Caribbean’s children’s camp, Adventure Ocean, may place the child by ability, rather than age." MAY leaves the door open.

 

It seems that there are several areas where Royal gives decision making to the ship's crew and there can be wide variants across the fleet.

 

If you have sailed on another cruise line where the policies are more clear cut and have been able to get what you expected...then you definitely should stick to those other lines.

 

Having sailed Carnival, Royal, and Celebrity, my take is that each line has pros/cons and that there isn't a clear cut winner...unless you've reached a loyalty status that gives you serious benefit to choosing one over the other.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

The chronological age thing is pretty much universal and due to liability reasons. It's the same reason that if someone turns 18 on a cruise, their last day of eligibility for the teen stuff is the day before their birthday.

[Anita Latte]

WrittenOnYourHeart...I get that thought, especially with the cut off age of 18, but I have experienced more than one cruise where the child population on board was such that they combined all the kids under 18 together and didn't have certain teen venues open at all.

 

This leads me to believe that it wasn't an insurance issue...

[Bellyflopchamp]

I am sorry that this happened to you. I can definitely see how this could be very frustrating. It sounds like the customer service department will pawn questions they dont know the answer to on the ship's staff. What they should have done was to refer you to the special needs department.

 

If you haven't completed your survey yet I would definitely put this experience on there. I do not see why they would not be able to accommodate such a request. You could also try to reach out to them somehow as well to voice this concern. At this point it wont get you anything, but maybe it will help someone else in a similar situation.

[spookwife]

the age thing is universal across all lines and while in the past was far more flexible, the fact is that in a recent years a LARGE number of incidents have occurred with people being in their 'mental' age group as opposed to the 'physical' age group that led to some serious unwanted attention( sexual and otherwise)

 

they have to make the rules that apply to the majority and that will protect the majority.

 

mot parents do not want great big 14 year old in the younger age groups due to sheer size. My adult nephew, severely on the Spectrum, is huge..linebacker size, and has been so since he was like 12. he also cannot control himself at times and has landed his parents and younger siblings in the hospital by accident.

 

never mind the hormone storm in teens. they don't know what is going on, cannot adequately explain themselves and have NO concept of how to deal with it in safe and appropriate manner.

 

furthermore if the club were full they would NOT be able to move anyone down for any reason. you ailed on a MAJOR American Holiday and I bet the ship had butt ton of kids on board.

[mshessle]

I'm very sorry to hear they did not provide decent accommodations for your son. My coworker, who also has a son with down syndrome, recently told me about a Buddy Cruise being offered in October with Royal Caribbean geared toward families with children with disabilities. Here is the link if that is something you might be interested in: http://buddycruise.org/pages/Default.aspx.

[Starry Eyes]

I, too, suspect the issue is liability and/or satisfaction of other families. ,I can understand that this child might have been happier had he been allowed in a different age group. Still, doing so might have caused problem. Had this child been allowed in a younger age group, another family may have been unhappy that an older kid was in with their younger ones. And even as the management dealt with that age related complaint, yet another family would be complaining that their (normal or less delayed) child was not allowed to switch to a younger age group (to be with a friend or sibling, for example). Meanwhile another family, upon seeing a child moved based on mental age) is unhappy that their relatively mature child close to age cutoff was not allowed to move up to an older age group. And yet another family might be upset that their 18(+) year old was not allowed in at all. With so many expectations, the most straightforward answer might be to keep everybody strictly in their chronological age groups; though if that is the strict policy, it would be better if families were told in advance so they could plan.

[emdia43]

Which age group did you want him in?

[ARCruisinNana]

9-11 age group allows the parent to decide if the child can sign themselves out.

[emdia43]

9-11 age group allows the parent to decide if the child can sign themselves out.

 

Ok, thanks. What a shame they weren't willing to make a simple accommodation for him. They might at least a have given it a trial .....

[CruisinBarb63]

Buddy Cruise for the win on this one. Also look for the Buddy Cruise facebook page. Lots of families in the same situation.

[Deedied]

Thanks, everyone. I just wanted him in one group younger (can't remember the cut off, but believe it was 12), and as he is quite small for his size, no issues there. He plays sports in leagues one group under, etc., and never had an issue. Unless you have a special needs child, it is hard to understand how difficult it can be to have people simply be flexible -- and remember, I was told in advance over the phone by RC customer service that they would try to accommodate. The fact is a child with a serious mental delay (such as Down syndrome) cannot find his or her way around on a ship, and needs to be able to be signed in and out. Or at least they should have an alternative in the regular teen room -- perhaps a fee for a companion in the room. But that group is still way too old for him, and none of the activities are things that he can do, yet, whereas in that next-youngest room was everything he loves and is good at (Wii, younger age level games, etc). That is not a difficult thing to accommodate, especially when they have my cell phone and if there were any problems they could simply have called us. Their "policies" are inflexible and as one of you noted, apparently they do make allowances (at least, officially), they simply wouldn't on board. Taking a cruise only for special needs sort of defeats the purpose of inclusivity that our schools and organizations all over the world have adopted. I appreciate the feedback, and, yes, I wrote to the president, the CEO and filled out the survey. I don't expect it to do any good, but if somehow it can make a family in the future be able to have a more enjoyable and relaxing trip, it'll still be worth it.

[Deedied]

That is exactly what I suggested to the manager -- can we just try this a couple of hours? You have my cell? I think your staff will find him delightful. Would not consider it. Thanks!

[rudeney]

The CSR who told you to check with the onboard staff may have actually believed that they did have some latitude, and maybe they do and in this case they just decided not to grant it to you. I would imagine that some parents of 9-11yo children would feel uncomfortable with a 14yo boy in the group. Even though you know him, they don't. So maybe that was the staff's concern.

 

We had a similar experience with our 11yo granddaughter on DCL. She was just three weeks short of her 12th birthday, but she was not allowed into that age group - she had to stay with the 9-11yo group. Her "mental age" has always exceeded her physical age, so she was very bored and ended up not spending much time with the group. That meant she spent more time with us, when we thought we'd have a lot of adult time. It happens, but we had a great cruise anyhow.

[legaljen1969]

the age thing is universal across all lines and while in the past was far more flexible, the fact is that in a recent years a LARGE number of incidents have occurred with people being in their 'mental' age group as opposed to the 'physical' age group that led to some serious unwanted attention( sexual and otherwise)

 

they have to make the rules that apply to the majority and that will protect the majority.

 

mot parents do not want great big 14 year old in the younger age groups due to sheer size. My adult nephew, severely on the Spectrum, is huge..linebacker size, and has been so since he was like 12. he also cannot control himself at times and has landed his parents and younger siblings in the hospital by accident.

 

never mind the hormone storm in teens. they don't know what is going on, cannot adequately explain themselves and have NO concept of how to deal with it in safe and appropriate manner.

 

furthermore if the club were full they would NOT be able to move anyone down for any reason. you ailed on a MAJOR American Holiday and I bet the ship had butt ton of kids on board.

 

I have a friend whose child is just the opposite as far as size and capability. He has Down Syndrome He is 13 and weighs about 55 pounds, if that. He looks like a first or second grader. He interacts socially like a first or second grader. There would be no problems with unwanted sexual attention from this child.

 

I am sorry for all of you who have experienced hardships with your special needs fellow travelers. It is heartbreaking and unfortunate.

[bubba83]

How old are the other teenage brothers? Could they have volunteered a night or two on the cruise to hang out with him so he didn't have to tag along with you to the bars and shows?

[legaljen1969]

Thanks, everyone. I just wanted him in one group younger (can't remember the cut off, but believe it was 12), and as he is quite small for his size, no issues there. He plays sports in leagues one group under, etc., and never had an issue. Unless you have a special needs child, it is hard to understand how difficult it can be to have people simply be flexible -- and remember, I was told in advance over the phone by RC customer service that they would try to accommodate. The fact is a child with a serious mental delay (such as Down syndrome) cannot find his or her way around on a ship, and needs to be able to be signed in and out. Or at least they should have an alternative in the regular teen room -- perhaps a fee for a companion in the room. But that group is still way too old for him, and none of the activities are things that he can do, yet, whereas in that next-youngest room was everything he loves and is good at (Wii, younger age level games, etc). That is not a difficult thing to accommodate, especially when they have my cell phone and if there were any problems they could simply have called us. Their "policies" are inflexible and as one of you noted, apparently they do make allowances (at least, officially), they simply wouldn't on board. Taking a cruise only for special needs sort of defeats the purpose of inclusivity that our schools and organizations all over the world have adopted. I appreciate the feedback, and, yes, I wrote to the president, the CEO and filled out the survey. I don't expect it to do any good, but if somehow it can make a family in the future be able to have a more enjoyable and relaxing trip, it'll still be worth it.

 

Deedied. I completely sympathize with your plight. My best friend has a Down Syndrome son who is small for his age, and good at the things that a younger group would be doing. In his mind, he is the same age and ability as those kids. You are absolutely right. They could have called you on your cell phone and everything would have been fine. My friend's son could not navigate the ship by himself. He also has poor impulse control and does not fully appreciate the dangers of various situations. He loves to climb on things. He loves to run, and he is very fast. He might jump into a pool if he saw his peers doing the same. Then what would someone do if he couldn't swim.

 

It is sad for your son, and disconcerting for you, that the cruise line said they would try to accommodate and then turned him away.

 

Hopefully you can cruise again with Royal someday, and hopefully their policies change a little. I think they don't consider actual people in their risk assessment. They just look at generalities. However, I guess they get told that there is a "no exceptions" policy and then have to try to follow that so no one gets upset. There has to be a better way.

[Paul65]

Thanks, everyone. I just wanted him in one group younger (can't remember the cut off, but believe it was 12), and as he is quite small for his size, no issues there. He plays sports in leagues one group under, etc., and never had an issue. Unless you have a special needs child, it is hard to understand how difficult it can be to have people simply be flexible -- and remember, I was told in advance over the phone by RC customer service that they would try to accommodate. The fact is a child with a serious mental delay (such as Down syndrome) cannot find his or her way around on a ship, and needs to be able to be signed in and out. Or at least they should have an alternative in the regular teen room -- perhaps a fee for a companion in the room. But that group is still way too old for him, and none of the activities are things that he can do, yet, whereas in that next-youngest room was everything he loves and is good at (Wii, younger age level games, etc). That is not a difficult thing to accommodate, especially when they have my cell phone and if there were any problems they could simply have called us. Their "policies" are inflexible and as one of you noted, apparently they do make allowances (at least, officially), they simply wouldn't on board. Taking a cruise only for special needs sort of defeats the purpose of inclusivity that our schools and organizations all over the world have adopted. I appreciate the feedback, and, yes, I wrote to the president, the CEO and filled out the survey. I don't expect it to do any good, but if somehow it can make a family in the future be able to have a more enjoyable and relaxing trip, it'll still be worth it.

 

I was sympathetic to you, at first, but the more I read, the more I thought you were perhaps expecting too much. But, if you've been happier with other cruise lines, then by all means, go back to them.

 

It seems like the only thing that would have made you happy was for them to place your son in the 9-11 year old group. That's a pretty big difference, though, for a 14 year old to be in a 9-11 group. So, despite your belief that it's "not a difficult thing to accommodate," I think it's a little more difficult than you think.

 

And if the other comment I highlighted is your response to the idea of a "buddy cruise," then it just confirms in my mind how unrealistic you are. A buddy cruise is not a "cruise only for special needs." It is a cruise with a dedicated staff onboard to help accommodate and provide appropriate activities for special needs children. The last cruise I took was a designated "Autism at Sea" cruise, which is a similar program for families with children with autism and related disorders. It was by no means a cruise only for autistic children. In fact, we'd probably not have known such a group was onboard at all, if not for seeing a couple signs around and also meeting the family in the next cabin down from us who were cruising as part of that program.

 

Sounds like you expect to just tell them where they should place your child, because you know best, and have them follow your wishes. It's not going to work that way with Royal Caribbean, but as I said, if you found somewhere else that it does work that way, stick with it.

[reallyitsmema]

the age thing is universal across all lines and while in the past was far more flexible, the fact is that in a recent years a LARGE number of incidents have occurred with people being in their 'mental' age group as opposed to the 'physical' age group that led to some serious unwanted attention( sexual and otherwise)

 

they have to make the rules that apply to the majority and that will protect the majority.

 

mot parents do not want great big 14 year old in the younger age groups due to sheer size. My adult nephew, severely on the Spectrum, is huge..linebacker size, and has been so since he was like 12. he also cannot control himself at times and has landed his parents and younger siblings in the hospital by accident.

 

never mind the hormone storm in teens. they don't know what is going on, cannot adequately explain themselves and have NO concept of how to deal with it in safe and appropriate manner.

 

furthermore if the club were full they would NOT be able to move anyone down for any reason. you ailed on a MAJOR American Holiday and I bet the ship had butt ton of kids on board.

 

You post about the supposed "large number of incidents" yet there are no threads that can be found here on cruise critic or on a google search.

 

Kids are allowed to be aged down, this happens all the time with the Autism on the Seas groups. That group also provides staff that is allowed to help in Adventure Ocean with kids that sail with them.

 

To the OP, I would really followup with the cruise line. Did you speak to special needs or just a rep at the 800 number? You should also look into Autism on the Seas. They are a group that sails on all cruise lines and can help you a lot. We sailed on the Jewel of the Seas a few years ago with a group of young adults that were on a cruise with Autism on the Seas. Many of those traveling were kids with downs syndrome. They had a separate area in the theater reserved for them and also a private dining room off the WJ just for them.

[Budget Queen]

I am very sorry this happened.

 

From a liability point of view, I can definitely see the reasons for the denial.

Even though, you may not think the physical size is different- there are some very significant physical differences.

 

The staff is not trained, nor expected to be in the role this may require?

 

You are asking for an exception- that clearly indicates potential "problems" . That opens up a whole range of precautions that have to be addressed. It is not a health care facility, the staff are preforming activities for groups of children. They aren't going to be able to offer any "special" supervision, activities etc.

 

You know this child, they do not. Always, the most conservative decisions have to be made. They aren't going to do a "trial" because with just that request- it can be interpreted, that it may not "work out", which is a risk they do not want to take, nor are trained for.

 

Not trying to create an argument- In the future- perhaps, staying with him would open more options, try and find someone on roll calls- even other adults that could offer, some friendship? Take a companion along?

 

I just would not expect "exceptions" to be anything I would count on or depend on.

[NightOne]

I'll be honest and say that my first thoughts on this topic were that RCCL should not be expected to deal with special needs children in their Adventure Ocean program regardless of how much I may empathize with the original poster's situation. Furthermore, I thought the parents should not have the expectation that they would be able to go off and do their own thing while Adventure Ocean dealt with the special needs of their child. Finally, I questioned whether or not the parents should have even taken a cruise or taken a special needs child with them on a cruise.

 

BUT then I did some quick research and read THIS:

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/Accessible_Seas/10017348_AccessibleSeas_Brochure.pdf

 

Specifically, page 7 states:

 

"OTHER DISABILITIES & SPECIAL NEEDS

 

CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES

 

Children with disabilities, including autism, will love our fun-filled,

complimentary Adventure Ocean® Youth Program. Some of the

accommodations for our youngest special-needs travelers include:

• Adventure Ocean grouping by ability (rather than age)"

 

So in this case I think RCCL did indeed drop the ball. I know that the OP has already e-mailed management about this issue but they may want to e-mail Special_Needs@rccl.com as well. I think the original poster had a reasonable expectation to have the child placed into the lower aged group and it appears as if maybe the onboard staff were not aware of Royal's written policy on this.

 

To the OP: Sorry it did not work out for you while you were on the cruise.

Edited July 23, 2015 by NightOne

[finest14]

I'll be honest and say that my first thoughts on this topic were that RCCL should not be expected to deal with special needs children in their Adventure Ocean program regardless of how much I may empathize with the original poster's situation. Furthermore, I thought the parents should not have the expectation that they would be able to go off and do their own thing while Adventure Ocean dealt with the special needs of their child. Finally, I questioned whether or not the parents should have even taken a cruise or taken a special needs child with them on a cruise.

 

BUT then I did some quick research and read THIS:

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/Sales/Royal/Accessible_Seas/10017348_AccessibleSeas_Brochure.pdf

 

Specifically, page 7 states:

 

"OTHER DISABILITIES & SPECIAL NEEDS

 

CHILDREN WITH DISABILITIES

 

Children with disabilities, including autism, will love our fun-filled,

complimentary Adventure Ocean® Youth Program. Some of the

accommodations for our youngest special-needs travelers include:

• Adventure Ocean grouping by ability (rather than age)"

 

So in this case I think RCCL did indeed drop the ball. I know that the OP has already e-mailed management about this issue but they may want to e-mail Special_Needs@rccl.com as well. I think the original poster had a reasonable expectation to have the child placed into the lower aged group and it appears as if maybe the onboard staff were not aware of Royal's written policy on this.

 

To the OP: Sorry it did not work out for you while you were on the cruise.

 

I have a 13 year old son with Down syndrome. We cruised Disney in May. Disney overlaps ages in clubs so he was eligible for the Lab (no self check out) and the Tween club (self check in/out). We took him to both and he did great. He was with a friend and her sister in the Tween club and they would have called us if he wanted to leave - although the Councilors said they could/would not prevent him from leaving if he wanted to.

 

We're interested to see how he'll do on the Oasis in a few weeks. I'm going to print out the flyer linked above and bring it with me and see what happens. We're not too comfortable leaving him alone with self check out privileges. Either way, we'll have a great time!! :):):):)

[tiredone8]

Sorry to here that. I am a supporter of the buddy cruise and I was in the same boat my daughter has CP and is behind although your son has downs.Buddy cruise is for all special needs.you and your son would have a blast.make friends and yes you could have time to enjoy your space and your son also.as I love my Daughter with all my heart This gives her independance and she made friends and loves it. Wish you would ive change you mind and give Buddy cruise a try. The Buddy cruise family is awesome

[kalliekae]

I am very sorry this happened.

 

From a liability point of view, I can definitely see the reasons for the denial.

Even though, you may not think the physical size is different- there are some very significant physical differences.

 

The staff is not trained, nor expected to be in the role this may require?

 

You are asking for an exception- that clearly indicates potential "problems" . That opens up a whole range of precautions that have to be addressed. It is not a health care facility, the staff are preforming activities for groups of children. They aren't going to be able to offer any "special" supervision, activities etc.

 

You know this child, they do not. Always, the most conservative decisions have to be made. They aren't going to do a "trial" because with just that request- it can be interpreted, that it may not "work out", which is a risk they do not want to take, nor are trained for.

 

Not trying to create an argument- In the future- perhaps, staying with him would open more options, try and find someone on roll calls- even other adults that could offer, some friendship? Take a companion along?

 

I just would not expect "exceptions" to be anything I would count on or depend on.

 

Wish we had a "Like" button. One more thought is that RCCL is not a US company so they are not bound by US standards for dealing with this type of situation. The staff is most likely not properly trained in special needs children and cannot be expected to handle those children in the manner that the child deserves and the parent expects. I hope the op goes on the Autism at Sea cruises or finds a cruise ship that has the proper staff and training in place to handle the situation to her satisfaction.