Silversea Water Cooler: Welcome! Part Two

[UKCruiseJeff]

Terry,

 

It is a bit annoying that none of them are prepared to confront the real agenda. And that is that if the UK votes out, then it triggers a domino effect and that is that the other members citizens will demand their own right for referenda. I have no doubt that the citizens of at least France and Germany will want "out" and then the whole "game is up"

 

You may be interested in this which I believe sums up my view and many others very succinctly.

 

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stop-traipsing-down-the-up-escalator-leaving-would-let-britain-grow-7zxg9tvl2?shareToken=cd2ce8706ffbca53d666ef47ba0941aa

 

Jeff

[specialcruisegirl]

Lovely food Jeffers....but please remember when l call in for lunch...l don't like olives...although I'll take the brandy, coffee and Bendicks...[emoji6]

 

I am yet to be convinced either way with regard to the upcoming EU election......we should have had the right to vote before we even joined in the first place.......my ultimate decision at the moment will rest with what my kids decide to do......maybe a weak one but I'm so sick of all the lies and propaganda over the many years and whatever happens it will most probably affect them more than me in the future......l shall just carry on growing old disgracefully....!!

 

Sophia [emoji1]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[UKCruiseJeff]

Soapy, wifey neither likes olives or cheese .....

 

I fear you have it the wrong way around. Whatever else your children do not have the gnarled experience and wisdom more often associated with age and younger people do not understand in the way that older people do the importance of longer term thinking.

 

I have no doubt at all that for a short period after an exit things will seem uncertain but the trajectory of the EU isn't really good is it? The more we accomodate and have to give hospitality to third world type EU countries, is hardly going to improve the UK is it?

 

Whatver you may think, I feel you should think that we should know better and show the way for them rather than we know less than our kids and that is why it is clear the older and wiser the person the more likely it seems they are voting for exit.

 

As most older people now regret ever voting for entry to what was The Common Market, it would be sad if the legacy we leave for our kids is the lmissed opportunity of getting out when we could that they in turn I am certain they will end up regretting.

 

Jeff

[TLCOhio]

Terry, It is a bit annoying that none of them are prepared to confront the real agenda. And that is that if the UK votes out, then it triggers a domino effect and that is that the other members citizens will demand their own right for referenda. I have no doubt that the citizens of at least France and Germany will want "out" and then the whole "game is up". You may be interested in this which I believe sums up my view and many others very succinctly.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stop-traipsing-down-the-up-escalator-leaving-would-let-britain-grow-7zxg9tvl2?shareToken=cd2ce8706ffbca53d666ef47ba0941aa

Jeff

 

Appreciate very much Jeff's sharing of this UK Times column. It was especially interesting to read many of the various reader comments. Of special significance was this opening in the column that noted: "Have you ever tried to walk the wrong way on an escalator? The answer is probably no. Sensible people don’t. Yet, that is in effect what we do by remaining in the EU."

 

During the coming weeks, I will be following this "battle" closely. Clearly we have more of a world economy now. BUT, how is the best way for major nations to deal with these new circumstances and challenges? Some of the readers noted that many in Germany, France, etc., are not happy being dragged down by weaker counties in EU such as Greece, Spain, Italy, etc. There is lots involved during this debate and voting process.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 143,108 views for this posting.

[mjnvoyager]

Jeff

I do so agree with you as regards us older generation leading the way. We have 4 kids and 8 grandchildren and sincerely believe in voting out that we are doing the best for them having watched Europe over the years. We were both born during the war with parents that served in the armed forces, who sacrificed much to give us the chance of a better life. At the last vote my husband voted no, but I was fooled by the trading opportunities etc. I asked him only today why he voted out then and he said he could already see which way the wind was blowing. He was very senior in several industries before retirement but says that even if he was still working then his decision now would be the same. Logically, how can northern and western countries in the EU share a currency with poor Med countries, let alone the eastern bloc countries that have and will be joining. The Jeremy Paxman programme earlier in the week said it all to me. I felt he balanced it well and interviewed all opinions but the Brexit made far more sense. As you say his puzzlement said it all. I know so few who are voting out. The internet is awash with Brexit opinions and those that do say they are staying in are either those who are nervous of the outcome ( project Fear working) or idealistic. I also feel that nothing will be the same again after the vote and politically we will be in a great big mess if the vote is to stay in. I think Cameron's days are numbered.

Jane

[UKCruiseJeff]

Jane,

 

Good to hear the Voice Of Reason! :D

 

You do not need to look to closely to see that all of the remainers focus only on the moements and months or year or so after exit, and not on the long term.

 

It is also very clear that no one seems to put the ying of all the yang arguments. For example we are told that leaving will trigger WW3. What about the even more likelihood of internal pressures causing significant levels of unrest. The trajectory or unsustainable unemployment amongst the young in increasing numbers of EU members converging with the growth of the right is more likely in my view than the EU being a protector against problems with Russia.

 

Anyway, did you like my food today?

 

Jeff

[mjnvoyager]

Your food as always looks yummy. Got taken out to lunch today but yours looked better. Jane

[UKCruiseJeff]

Thanks! You make an overweight man very happy! I have lost 3lb this week though ....:D

 

What did you eat and drink?

 

Jeff

[mjnvoyager]

We were offered a free bottle of champagne which is what tempted us to go out. The smoked salmon was good but the roasts left a lot to be desired. Claggy gravy etc and the beef wasn't rare enough. The setting by the Thames though was divine.

 

How do you lose 3lbs with your gorgeous food? Do you have very small plates? Also didn't I spot a bottle?

Jane

[UKCruiseJeff]

Free champagne. Life doesn't get any sweeter! :)

 

With weight, I try very hard but don't succeed well.

 

I gave up wine for ten days or so and on my normal habits that's a few calories. I never eat breakfast and with lunch I never eat it all. We've been eating a lot of grilled fish and salads and in the evening I eat some fresh pineapple every day and a slice of home made bread, but it does seem very unfair to me that when I eat a bit and drink a bit the weight piles on straight away, but when I stop eating and drinking it stays there. It isn't fair.

 

Today I'm being naughty. I'm waiting for a brioche/challah type loaf to rise, but I have made it with 30% khorasan flour (kamut) and 70% 00 flour which had been on my mind for a few days as the flour is quite soft and sweet and I wanted to pioneed a new loaf! It isn't from a recipe so is entirely experimental. I'd like to think that with the flour and honey in it, it might be quite close to the sort of bread that ancient Egyptians may well have eaten themesleves.

 

The flour khorasan flour is an ancient flour and the story goes that a few grains were found in an old Egyptian tomb and ressurected. The flour is so interesting but it sucks up liquid like a sponge so my load is on a path of learning for me.

 

This is what it looks like right now. It is around double siuze but I want to wait another hour or so before it goes into the oven.

 

Jeff

 

 

[mjnvoyager]

That looks very interesting. Do tell us what it tastes like. I make all our bread but nothing as adventurous as yours. I lost 4 stone a couple of years ago, really hard work. Sadly(!!! As always) it's gradually going back on. A year of inactivity and having this tendon replaced in my ankle has not helped. Now DH is developing sore feet. Ahh the joys of old age. Planning to celebrate Golden Wedding in Tuscany in July with all the family. The pasta will put the finishing touches to our increasing frames.

Jane

[UKCruiseJeff]

Just warming up the oven now! I'm really impatient.

 

The problem is that I only need to see a bowl of pasta on TV then it is on the menu here straight away. I think pasta is the only thing I ever sea and always want immediately. The Rick Stein programme had me looking at flights to Bologna, and I have been given approval for a trip for our birthdays in September, although nearer the time I know we'll want to cook and eat at Seaside and sit on the balcony.

 

This week I have already ordered some fresh fish for grilling and some Jersey Royals and asparagus. And the search for the perfect loaf continues!

 

Jeff

[Catlover54]

Yes, Fletcher, loved your one earlier picture of Rhodes that was so super wonderful. BUT, seeing this large MEGA ship takes away from the fun and enjoyment. Having ships of 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 or 6,000 passengers hitting such smaller port not designed to absorb these large crowds takes away from the character and charm of these historic islands and areas.

 

[snip]

 

.

 

Big ships certainly take away from the "character and charm of these historic islands and areas" that visitors who remember the old days can enjoy (and I absolutely would prefer a street scene like Fletcher's gorgeous picture from before to the one of Carnival he posted, which gave me a good laugh). But let's not forget that the ships ADD greatly to the spending power and comfort of the locals who are selling their wares, running restaurants and tour services, etc.

 

As luxury travelers, we would love to keep so many beautiful places in the world to ourselves (indeed, these days one of the key aspects of luxury you pay for, either in a house or on a cruise ship, is just being able to have more space to yourself, in a nice place, unbothered by crowds of people who so often are annoying). However, relatively inexpensive jet travel and inexpensive cruises have made it easier for "the masses" to see more too, and that leads to "the masses" overseas then being able to enhance their standard of living, and maybe then they can travel too and partake. When I was young I also used to be one of "the masses", touring various parts of the world on a seriously restricted budget, with trains and backpacks and ride-hitching, and even being able to do that was a luxury of sorts as most working people, even from the U.S., simply could not travel anywhere at all as they could not afford to be away from their jobs and family care.

 

I have a very good friend, Greek-born though now American many years, who is from Simi (or Symi, both transliterations from Greek

are fine). His family dates back many generations, originally fishermen squeezing out a meager living. He still owns a little old house up on a hill there (no heat, damp in winter, no AC in summer, no driveway -- you have to walk up a steep hill on a dirt path to get to it, and it is getting hard to do this when he visits and stays a while, as he now has heart problems). But it is very idyllic! His cousins and others who are still living on the island there are absolutely delighted when tourists come (and more and more are visiting) as tourists improve their income (typically unreported to authorities so untaxed, the Greek way), and the cost of real estate there has skyrocketed due to the influx of foreigners, so some locals can sell and have a nice retirement elsewhere, or move in with other cousins. They can then use their income to pay for, among other things, bribes to doctors and health care bureaucrats to move them up the list for major heart surgery or other procedures they need as they age (they are officially entitled to "free" government healthcare for everything, but the waits may be months for major procedures unless you have some cash to throw around, my friend has told me about many incidents, bribing is "the Greek way" he says).

 

I enjoyed Rhodes last September, especially the archeological museum, even though there were quite a few visitors in town (my SB Odyssey, and a couple other cruise ships were there too though no mega-ship). I did not enjoy all the aggressive local people trying to sell me an endless supply of leather jackets and purses when I walked by in the main shopping drags, but I understood they had to try and just said no thanks.

 

On a happier front, DH, who loves amateur photography (the main focus of our joint travels), is excited about his new Nikon D500 that just arrived in the mail yesterday. He had been waiting a long time to get it. He has already taken some very low-light photos of our cats, which came out nicely focussed. The Blue-tooth connection is not yet set up.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Catlover54

[TLCOhio]

On a happier front, DH, who loves amateur photography (the main focus of our joint travels), is excited about his new Nikon D500 that just arrived in the mail yesterday. He had been waiting a long time to get it. He has already taken some very low-light photos of our cats, which came out nicely focussed. The Blue-tooth connection is not yet set up.

 

WOW!! That new Nikon camera for DH is very, very impressive. One review notes: "This D500 is Nikon's best sports camera because it's Nikon's fastest DX camera ever: 10 frames per second, and it can shoot through the flicker of typical sports arena, pool and gymnasium lighting." Look forward to learning more details (and maybe seeing, too) the successful results.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

From our Jan. 25-Feb. 20, 2015, Amazon River-Caribbean combo sailing over 26 days that started in Barbados, here is the link below to that live/blog. Lots of great visuals from this amazing Brazil river and these various Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, etc.) that we experienced. Check it out at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2157696

Now at 39,353 views for these postings.

[UKCruiseJeff]

CL,

 

It was lovely to read of your musings and in particular with respects to both Rhodes and nearby Symi and your friend, and your story about how we want to resist change as we get older certainly is I think the zeitgest of what many older Brits now feel.

 

I think his story is sad because what has happened in Europe has made the changes in Greece so much more worst than they would have been. In plain English the EU is repsonsible for trashing Greece with "cheap" and unaffordable loans.

 

It wasn't so long ago that when Brits went to London for the day, you could still tell that it was London and different from everywhere else in Europe. It was still then full of Londoners. And less than twenty years ago, going to Paris was an adventure. You changed your currency into Francs and ate French food. And less than twenty years ago Vienna was an adventure and you changed your currency into Austrian Schillings. It might seem like a pallaver but it was an action that was an important part of the mystique of travel. And when you went to Paris it was full of Parisians and in Vienna it was certainly almost entirely Viennese. And the food was French in Paris and Austrian in Venna. Every country had it's own identity and people were proud of their country and their unique cultural identities.

 

But now, many Brits feel it is hardly worthwhile bothering going to Paris. The people in Paris look almost identical to those they find in London. And so is the food pretty much the same. The Viennese are now a minority in Vienna and they have just politically taken the decision to embrace the far right in order to try and reverse their situation and get Vienna and Austria back. It is becoming the same year by year across Europe and we all have the same currency and the same Macdonalds. So less people even bother to seek it as an adventure it once was.

 

Patriotism is a pretty close relative to nationalism and nationalism is very closely related to xenophobia and the transition from a very worthy and admired sense of patriotism to what comes easily after xenophobia is a heartbeat in political time and I do not think it very long before the people of Greece start to complain even more loudly about being governed by Germany something it paid heavily to avoid a generation or so ago.

 

I think what older Brits can see more clearly from their kids is that where we are now aiming if we remain on our current route, is not the guarantee of peace but more likely the seeds of terribnle discord and we do not want to leave our kids that inheritance. I'm happy to give up a few years of uncertainty to get that sorted out.

 

Hopefully your friend's doctors and all the other people of Greece will then not need to rely so much on bribes to simply survive.

 

Anyway, the bread is now out of the oven and must be tasted.

 

:)

 

Jeff

[specialcruisegirl]

Jeffers......you make sense and I guess I'm being lazy which is rather stupid l know......maybe l should look up to my 90 year old father who fully intends to vote out.

 

Your bread looks great, hope it turns out well for you......to be honest my key to losing weight is cutting out bread!!

 

S [emoji5]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[lincslady]

Jeff - your bread in the rising looked like something horrible from outer space, but I bet it is good!

 

Have to agree completely with your last post on the referendum. I feel it is actually braver to vote out than to vote remain, and even if it did mean a few years 'in the wilderness' it would be the right thing in the end. Sadly, it may also mean the gradual end of the EU.

 

We voted - at least I did - to join a 'Common Market', quite a different animal from a 'European Union'. It is all rather sad; part of me says we should stay in to fight for improvement, but I think a larger part says it is all too unwieldly and bureaucratic to be worth supporting.

 

Bonsoir, guten abend,buenos noches, etc.

 

Lola

[mjnvoyager]

Sadly our voice is no longer heard in Europe. The biggest message we can send them is to vote out. The EU could well collapse but would surely reform as the people want. There is a rising tide in many countries and if it's not channelled carefully voters could and are lurching to the far right. I see that as far more dangerous. I also see that same undercurrent sweeping Trump into the White House. Now I don't know, nor would wish to speculate if that is good or bad but the people must be listened to in my humble opinion.

Jane

[UKCruiseJeff]

The very sad truth (imho) is that we will be worst off having had the referendum and then remain than if we had not had the referendum at all. Our decision to stay will be taken as wholescale approbation and approval from the British people on the current trajectory and as anyone with any common sense knows we have no influence over the EU whatsoever. We will now have even less. It will simply get much worst much more quickly than if we had not had the referndum.

 

The bread is lovely. Very close crumb and sweet. Supper was bread with a thin slice of ham followed by half a slice of bread with nice tart marmalade which went well. Followed by a quarter of a fresh pineapple.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2016 by UKCruiseJeff

[spinnaker2]

Hello all.

Lurking a little. Staying away from political questions or pithy discussions.

Ostrich mode for the moment.

 

Bread looks very lovely alone and with accoutrements.

 

Trying to find a vacation destination in July or August that DH will agree to.

 

I know this question may invite scorn or sqiggly worms, but has anyone on this board cruised on the Zuiderdam?

[les37b]

Jane,

 

Good to hear the Voice Of Reason! :D

 

You do not need to look to closely to see that all of the remainers focus only on the moements and months or year or so after exit, and not on the long term.

 

It is also very clear that no one seems to put the ying of all the yang arguments. For example we are told that leaving will trigger WW3. What about the even more likelihood of internal pressures causing significant levels of unrest. The trajectory or unsustainable unemployment amongst the young in increasing numbers of EU members converging with the growth of the right is more likely in my view than the EU being a protector against problems with Russia.

 

Anyway, did you like my food today?

 

Jeff

 

Jeff, I think Cameron is referring to his personal leadership battle with Boris after Brexit.

 

I think you are spot on about the domino effect. The Czech's have already said they are reconsidering their short time entry. And the Dutch..... And I certainly think what Merkel has done has soured the Germans enthusiasm. Obviously the French will want to remain with the crazy subsidies their farmers get plus the fact they don't actually take any notice of EU laws and directives unless they're beneficial.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Thanks Les,

 

We have Hofer it seems possible he might win in Austria and that would be almost certainly along the trajectory of a possible referendum. The next few hours .... :(

 

We only need see a few more mob assaults on females in Cologne for that to trigger a kick-start to a trajectory from AfD. Another terrorist attack in France .... the people are already on the streets. Marine Le-Pen in France is gaining ground. Gert Wilders in Holland is saying that the British might "save Europe" if we vote out on 23rd.

 

It is sadly the EU that has started a terrible and worrying move to the right.

 

Fingers crossed for a very heavy rain on the 23rd!

 

Jeff

[mjnvoyager]

I'm out of the country. ( I know, very bad timing but arranged a long time ago. ) Proxy in place and confirmed. Think it's mostly our generation who will be proactive in doing postal, proxies and actual voting. Grandson at university tells me mostly not bothering or registered.

[les37b]

Jeff, agree about the worrying trend and swing to the right. I just hope the realisation that's happening along with views people don't won't to be associated with that, doesn't make them reconsider and change their vote. The "Ins" are already using that to their advantage.

 

I have to admit, siding with George Galloway doesn't sit well.

 

Rather annoyingly, my eldest is now eligible to vote.... And his teacher at school has convinced him to vote in. I'm considering having him adopted. Annoyingly, it was only a couple of weeks ago I got him put on the register of electors. I feel betrayed! lol

 

I will be working on him.

Edited May 22, 2016 by les37b

[UKCruiseJeff]

Les,

 

in my view you have put your finger on the reason why Brexit hasn't highlighted that the logical sequence that follows an exit by the UK is the referenda domino effect I predict. I think they calculate that the remainers will seize on that time line and scare the wits out of the public by their predictions of the instability that this exit would cause. I argue that remaining will cause more instability than an exit, because what we would have with a few more referenda and a wholesale exit is that we would simply end up with a common market ie all the politics removed.

 

Jeff