Chip-Enabled Credit Cards in Europe

[sloopsailor]

Wells Fargo does not have a chip and pin credit card. See https://www.wellsfargo.com/chip-card/

 

The pin with these cards is associated with a debit card. Please supply a link to where Wells offers a chip and pin credit card. The atm/debit card is not the same thing when you get a pin. [/Quote]

 

Yes they do. see https://www.creditcardinsider.com/credit-cards/propel-world/ and http://www.drcreditcard.net/wells-fargo-propel.html

 

Likewise, Citibank does not have a commercial travel card. See http://www.citibank.com/tts/card_solutions/commercial_cards/travel_entertainment/central_travel.htm

 

Again, where does anything say that these are chip and pin?

 

 

Your city card claim has been answered by cle-guy.

 

Not sure why those of you who are jumping to challenge these facts are being so harsh. Is it a case of one-upmanship? "My [insert word] is bigger than yours"? Most of these challenges have a tone of mean spiritedness. If you were only trying to provide accurate information, they wouldn't read like attacks on people. Sheesh! Chill out! :rolleyes:

Edited October 9, 2015 by sloopsailor

[navybankerteacher]

Yes they do. see https://www.creditcardinsider.com/credit-cards/propel-world/ and http://www.drcreditcard.net/wells-fargo-propel.html

 

 

 

Your city card claim has been answered by cle-guy.

 

Not sure why those of you who are jumping to challenge these facts are being so harsh. Is it a case of one-upmanship? "My [insert word] is bigger than yours"? Most of these challenges have a tone of mean spiritedness. If you were only trying to provide accurate information, they wouldn't read like attacks on people. Sheesh! Chill out! :rolleyes:

 

You should refer to the title of this thread - Chip enhanced CREDIT cards.

 

Wells Fargo's site makes it clear that what they are discussing are their chip debit cards and pre-paid cards - not credit cards. It is hardly mean spirited to point out when mis-information is being given - rather carelessly giving mis-information or arguing with people who are trying to give correct information to counteract the misinformation which some people might accept as fact, is more properly considered mean spirited.

 

Citibank does not offer chip and pin cards - which is what people who are likely to be travelling much in Europe (again, see the title of this thread).

 

If you keep rolling your eyes, you might have difficulty seeing things.

[buggins0402]

Yes they do. see https://www.creditcardinsider.com/credit-cards/propel-world/ and http://www.drcreditcard.net/wells-fargo-propel.html

 

 

 

:

 

It does look like WF has a chip and pin credit card. But, Amex has an acceptance problem in Europe.

[SantaFeFan]

It does look like WF has a chip and pin credit card. But, Amex has an acceptance problem in Europe.

 

The sure do. We traveled with another couple a year or so ago and they couldn't use their Well Fargo Amex cards at many places, even hotels. We ended up charging almost half their expenses on our VISA card since all they had on this trip were Amex cards.

 

They had gotten them specifically because they were chip AND pin. They have since cancelled these cards. "Worthless" is how they describe them. ;)

Edited October 9, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[Donray]

All US government issued CitiBank cards, for example, are Chip and PIN, as per an executive order issued last July. This is why Citibank has chip and PIN abilities.

 

You do know the law was for chip and sign, not chip and pin credit cards.

 

People sure don't follow financial news very much.

[cle-guy]

You do know the law was for chip and sign, not chip and pin credit cards.

 

People sure don't follow financial news very much.

 

To my knowledge there is no LAW at all about chip and anything.

 

The banking industry has decided to do it.

 

Obama signed an executive order demanding that government cards be chip and PIN, completely unrelated to the Banking industry's pending Chip and Sign push. I posted the link to that in a prior post in this thread.

 

Maybe I'm wrong (and if I am I'd love a link to the law) about there being an actual law passed about chip and PIN, but to my knowledge it's a banking policy, not a law. All it is doing is saving the banks money as they no longer have to pay for disputed claims, the merchants at the store level now get to eat that expense. The banks get richer.

 

I get my details from mailings from my card processing companies, I don't rely on the news to give me the full details. The news has confused most everyone in this thread as they generally brush over the news story, and don't get into the minutia and detailed specifics. They offer a broad generalized review of the process, geared to suit the majority of their reader/viewers, not needing to address the few outliers like ma and the others who have chip and PIN cards.

 

I have had 2 chip and PIN cards issued by US banks. They exist, I (and others here) have used them. My first one was a few years ago, issued by Chase with Continental Airlines, only offered to their top tier flyers (Presidential Platinum at the time with CO, or Global Services on United) at the time as a courtesy for international traveling upon request. I no longer have this card, but do have my Appel Barclay card, that is chip and PIN.

[Hlitner]

It does look like WF has a chip and pin credit card. But, Amex has an acceptance problem in Europe.

 

It is not just in Europe. We are long time AMEX users and really appreciate their great service and open ended credit limits. If I want to charge a $30,000 trip on AMEX it is not a problem. Try that on most Visas or MCs and you either have to beg for a higher credit limit or just not do the transaction.

 

But AMEX charges a higher percentage (than MC and Visa) to most merchants/restaurants and also has more obstacles for merchants who want to accept the cards. When I had a retail operation we quickly cut deals with MC/VISA through our own bank (and trade organization) and could have also cut a deal with Discover (we had no interest). But AMEX would have involved different procedures directly with AMEX and they wanted a much higher percentage then we had to pay for MC/VISA. So like many businesses we made a business decision to not deal with AMEX. The reality is that just about anyone who has an AMEX card also has a VISA, MC or both.

 

We have talked to some restaurateurs in Europe and asked them why they do not accept AMEX and the reply is usually something like "they are too expensive." As to AMEX users, AMEX charges a 2.7% foreign exchange fee on most of their cards (there is no foreign exchange fee on their Platinum Card which costs the holder $450 a year). But there are quite a few Visa and MC cards (such as the Global Trek Visa issued by Andrews FCU and the CapitalOne MC) that have zero foreign exchange fees as well as zero annual fees. So unless one has a Platinum Amex there is little reason to even use that card overseas for many multiple card holders.

 

Hank

[cle-guy]

But AMEX charges a higher percentage (than MC and Visa) to most merchants/restaurants and also has more obstacles for merchants who want to accept the cards. When I had a retail operation we quickly cut deals with MC/VISA through our own bank (and trade organization) and could have also cut a deal with Discover (we had no interest). But AMEX would have involved different procedures directly with AMEX and they wanted a much higher percentage then we had to pay for MC/VISA. So like many businesses we made a business decision to not deal with AMEX. The reality is that just about anyone who has an AMEX card also has a VISA, MC or both.

 

It was true that Amex charged a higher processing rate. Maybe for some merchants they still do. But I got a letter earlier this year from Amex that they were happy to lower my rates to the same percentages as my MC/VI processing. I had been accepting the card in 3 stores for 2 year when I got this letter if that made a difference. I'm a face to face, 100% swiped, no phone, no internet shipping merchant.

 

But 2 years ago, they were 3.7% when MC/VI was 2%.

 

And it's also true anyone with an Amex also has a VI/MC.

 

I always would set amex up in my business operations in all countries - UK, Spain, Australia, Hungary, Austria, Egypt.

 

It's also true that Amex spenders have a slightly higher average sale than VI MC I found.

[navybankerteacher]

To my knowledge there is no LAW at all about chip and anything.

 

The banking industry has decided to do it.

 

Obama signed an executive order demanding that government cards be chip and PIN, completely unrelated to the Banking industry's pending Chip and Sign push. I posted the link to that in a prior post in this thread.

 

Maybe I'm wrong (and if I am I'd love a link to the law) about there being an actual law passed about chip and PIN, but to my knowledge it's a banking policy, not a law. All it is doing is saving the banks money as they no longer have to pay for disputed claims, the merchants at the store level now get to eat that expense. The banks get richer.

I get my details from mailings from my card processing companies, I don't rely on the news to give me the full details. The news has confused most everyone in this thread as they generally brush over the news story, and don't get into the minutia and detailed specifics. They offer a broad generalized review of the process, geared to suit the majority of their reader/viewers, not needing to address the few outliers like ma and the others who have chip and PIN cards.

 

I have had 2 chip and PIN cards issued by US banks. They exist, I (and others here) have used them. My first one was a few years ago, issued by Chase with Continental Airlines, only offered to their top tier flyers (Presidential Platinum at the time with CO, or Global Services on United) at the time as a courtesy for international traveling upon request. I no longer have this card, but do have my Appel Barclay card, that is chip and PIN.

 

I know that Chase has chip and pin credit cards - which, at least until very recently, were restricted to top tier users and those who payed a premium annual fee. Their regular card holders were not offered that option.

 

I imagine Citibank may also offer very limited/costly chip and pin credit cards, but as of two days ago they did not routinely offer it to regular credit card holders.

 

A careful review of Wells Fargo's card site indicated that they offered chip and pin debit cards and pre-paid cards (which are really specialized debit cards) - but was silent when it came to credit cards.

 

What it boils down to is that US banks are in transition mode, and there is little reliable definitive information concerning regular (non fee) chip and pin credit cards available from major retail banks.

52

[buggins0402]

But AMEX would have involved different procedures directly with AMEX and they wanted a much higher percentage then we had to pay for MC/VISA. So like many businesses we made a business decision to not deal with AMEX. The reality is that just about anyone who has an AMEX card also has a VISA, MC or both.

 

Hank

 

They are beginning to get religion, believe it or not!!! On the merchant side, no additional procedures and same funding as MC and Visa...no additional day wait for funds. As to fees, they are still higher. But, on the administration side, light years difference (changed about 2 years ago).

 

On consumer side, Delta Amex will soon be going no Fx transaction fees. But, I still wouldn't count on it being accepted in Europe unless paying for a large hotel chain.

Edited October 10, 2015 by buggins0402

[FlyerTalker]

On consumer side, Delta Amex will soon be going no Fx transaction fees. But, I still wouldn't count on it being accepted in Europe unless paying for a large hotel chain.

The Starwood AMEX already has no foreign transaction fees. It also gives you free access to the Boingo wifi network, which is nice to have in some airports and hotels.

[cruisemom42]

 

On consumer side, Delta Amex will soon be going no Fx transaction fees. But, I still wouldn't count on it being accepted in Europe unless paying for a large hotel chain.

 

My Delta Amex (chip and signature) has already switched to no Fx transaction fees. I will carry it with me hopefully (as a second card) but I'm sure my Cap One MC will still get more of a workout on my ex-US travels. :D

Edited October 10, 2015 by cruisemom42

[cle-guy]

They are beginning to get religion, believe it or not!!! On the merchant side, no additional procedures and same funding as MC and Visa...no additional day wait for funds. As to fees, they are still higher. But, on the administration side, light years difference (changed about 2 years ago).

 

This was my experience as well. I applied for VI/MC and all I did was check the box on the application to add American Express and Discover, no separate application or anything. Easy peasy. Funding for todays sales are pending deposit in checking tomorrow and funds available the next day, same as with VI and MC.

 

When I was doing things in foreign countries, once I had my initial Amex account in order stateside, to add them internationally, was just a call, a 1 page form to add, and account active that day. VI/MC, I had a headache getting accounts sorted in many cases, though this was due to getting banking established there first.

[buggins0402]

My Delta Amex (chip and signature) has already switched to no Fx transaction fees. I will carry it with me hopefully (as a second card) but I'm sure my Cap One MC will still get more of a workout on my ex-US travels. :D

 

Nice to know...All our hotels for our trip next month accept Amex, so it might get some play. I remember reading the email recently, but couldn't remember if it was effective immediately.

[calliopecruiser]

I know that Chase has chip and pin credit cards - which, at least until very recently, were restricted to top tier users and those who payed a premium annual fee. Their regular card holders were not offered that option.

 

I imagine Citibank may also offer very limited/costly chip and pin credit cards, but as of two days ago they did not routinely offer it to regular credit card holders.

 

That seems so backwards to me -- chip and PIN are safer cards, with respect to fraudulent charges, so I would have thought the top-tier card holders would have been the least likely group they would be concerned about having chip and PIN cards.

 

Ah well; it's not my call (or my liability).

[NLH Arizona]

A careful review of Wells Fargo's card site indicated that they offered chip and pin debit cards and pre-paid cards (which are really specialized debit cards) - but was silent when it came to credit cards.

 

I've had a chip Visa card from Wells Fargo for sometime (they had bugged me for sometime about getting it) and just got my chip debit card last week. Edited October 10, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[navybankerteacher]

I've had a chip Visa card from Wells Fargo for sometime (they had bugged me for sometime about getting it) and just got my chip debit card last week.

 

But, is the chip Visa card chip and pin or chip and signature?

[navybankerteacher]

That seems so backwards to me -- chip and PIN are safer cards, with respect to fraudulent charges, so I would have thought the top-tier card holders would have been the least likely group they would be concerned about having chip and PIN cards.

 

Ah well; it's not my call (or my liability).

 

It is indeed backwards - the result of complacency on the part of US retail banks who felt the domestic market was big, and profitable for them, enough to permit them to ignore foreign technology as it evolved.

[MSN-Travelers]

I get a big chuckle when I see people post "absolute" answers. By this point in the thread it should be obvious that NOBODY has the correct answer to the OP's original question.

 

I can tell you that I have a US Bank FlexPerks VISA credit card with a chip and just returned from a three-week tour in Europe. During that trip, my card was chip & signature for purchases made in all 8 countries we traveled through. I did not make any ATM cash withdrawals with this CC. US Bank does not levy any fees for purchases using made in a foreign country with the Flexperks VISA card. They do levy a foreign currency conversion fee on the other cards they issue.

 

Bottom line lesson for the OP, and all others, is . . . call the card issuer and ask the question!

Edited October 11, 2015 by MSN-Travelers

[critterchick]

We have a chip & pin card from Andrews Federal Credit Union. It did take a bit of work to get it - we thought DH was eligible as retired Navy but the online application didn't have the right box to check, we went through the American Consumer Credit Union Association (I think that's the name).

 

The only time we used the PIN on our trip in 2014 was to purchase vaporetto tickets in Venice - it saved us a good 30 minutes of not having to stand in line behind a bunch of Americans who had to use a manned station. Otherwise it spit out a receipt. When we stopped for coffee at a highway rest stop, the man was startled when the receipt printed out and didn't know what to do with.:p I was able to tell him in Italian that it needed my signature and he said, "PAZZO!" (crazy)

 

All of my credit cards but one have chips on them, but other than the AFCU one, they are all chip & signature. I send an email to Navy FCU every year or so asking for a chip & PIN card and get the same response back (no). With all the servicemembers and retirees they have living overseas it really boggles the mind.