PARIS ATTACKS-will River Cruises cancel?

[PJ_Travels]

With the very recent multpile attacks in several tourist locations, wondering if Paris will be on the no travel list. We cancelled our river cruise to Normandy this past May transferring to Portugal April 2016. We had hoped to rebook our Paris trip but with the organized military type attack, I don't think we will.

How sad for all the innocent victims......this is total madness.

 

I thought that Rick Steve's words on his Facebook page the night of the attack were fantastic. Here is an excerpt:

 

About safety, I believe this is an isolated incident. Tomorrow Paris will be no more dangerous than it was the day before that terrible Friday the 13th. I also believe that security in Paris and throughout Europe will be heightened in response to this attack. Remember: There's an important difference between fear and risk.

...

I'm sure that many Americans will cancel their trips to Paris (a city of 2 million people) or the rest of Europe (a continent of 500 million people), because of an event that killed about 150. As a result, ironically, they’ll be staying home in a country of 320 million people that loses over 30,000 people a year (close to 100 people a day) to gun violence.

[Shorex]

The quote function didn't function, thus this is the "quote""

"I thought that Rick Steve's words on his Facebook page the night of the attack were fantastic. Here is an excerpt:

 

About safety, I believe this is an isolated incident. Tomorrow Paris will be no more dangerous than it was the day before that terrible Friday the 13th. I also believe that security in Paris and throughout Europe will be heightened in response to this attack. Remember: There's an important difference between fear and risk.

...

I'm sure that many Americans will cancel their trips to Paris (a city of 2 million people) or the rest of Europe (a continent of 500 million people), because of an event that killed about 150. As a result, ironically, they’ll be staying home in a country of 320 million people that loses over 30,000 people a year (close to 100 people a day) to gun violence. "

 

I find Rick Steve's words naive and foolhardy. This was not an "isolated incident." It was a well planned, coordinated attack. Isis crows that more attacks are to follow, including threats on Washington, DC.

 

"Within the last 10 days, ISIS has claimed responsibility for the downing of a Russian airliner in Egypt that killed 224 people, a double suicide bombing in a residential area in southern Beirut, killing at least 43 and injuring 200 more, and the simultaneous shooting and bombing attacks in Paris that left at least 130 dead, and more than 250 injured."

 

It is not the number of causalities that is most frightening, it is that they were ordinary people going about the ordinary activities of life: going to a soccer game, a concert, a restaurant. And that even now, Isis has plans to coordinate more attacks, and we don't know where or when. And Steve's fallacious comparison to domestic gun violence is a red herring that distracts from the genuine threats against western civilization.

 

Do we still travel? Yup. Could we be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Yup. As could any of us.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Do we still travel? Yup. Could we be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Yup. As could any of us.

 

Your perspective may differ based on where you live. Living in NY, I figure that almost anywhere I travel is safer than staying home! ;)

[Hydrokitty]

Your perspective may differ based on where you live. Living in NY, I figure that almost anywhere I travel is safer than staying home! ;)

 

Ya got that right!!!! Like I've said before, I still won't and probably will never ride the subway again.....I get squirrely going through the LIRR tunnel into Penn Station...

[FlyerTalker]

Your perspective may differ based on where you live. Living in NY, I figure that almost anywhere I travel is safer than staying home!

Well, since crime has gone up since the election of Bill de Blasio (aka Warren Wilhelm, Jr) you could very well be correct.

 

As for not riding the subway...you are just as likely to be hit in any gathering spot. Think Macy's on Black Friday. Or Times Square on any day of the week. MOMA, Metropolitan or Guggenheim. How 'bout the Staten Island Ferry? Or even just onboard the LIRR.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Well, since crime has gone up since the election of Bill de Blasio (aka Warren Wilhelm, Jr) you could very well be correct.

 

As for not riding the subway...you are just as likely to be hit in any gathering spot. Think Macy's on Black Friday. Or Times Square on any day of the week. MOMA, Metropolitan or Guggenheim. How 'bout the Staten Island Ferry? Or even just onboard the LIRR.

 

See Palsgraf v. Long Island Railroad Co.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palsgraf_v._Long_Island_Railroad_Co.

[PJ_Travels]

As for not riding the subway...you are just as likely to be hit in any gathering spot. Think Macy's on Black Friday. Or Times Square on any day of the week. MOMA, Metropolitan or Guggenheim. How 'bout the Staten Island Ferry? Or even just onboard the LIRR.

 

This is the same reaction to people being scared of flying after a plane goes down. EVERY single time you get into a car, you have a better chance of not making it to your destination.

[Hydrokitty]

 

As for not riding the subway...you are just as likely to be hit in any gathering spot. Think Macy's on Black Friday. Or Times Square on any day of the week. MOMA, Metropolitan or Guggenheim. How 'bout the Staten Island Ferry? Or even just onboard the LIRR.

 

I do not like to be underground. At least in Times Square, the museums , restaurants,Ferry, etc. I'm above ground which gives me more options than being in a tunnel, in complete darkness with a third rail to worry about. You don't have to agree or understand...it's a feeling and it just is.

[caviargal]

You don't have to agree or understand...it's a feeling and it just is.

 

That is me with flying. I hate to fly and turbulence terrifies me. Statistics do absolutely nothing to make me feel better.

[Host Jazzbeau]

FlyerTalker -- please remember to follow the guidelines and be civil to fellow-posters.

[papa B me]

FlyerTalker -- please remember to follow the guidelines and be civil to fellow-posters.

 

Thank You!

[Hydrokitty]

FlyerTalker -- please remember to follow the guidelines and be civil to fellow-posters.

 

Thank you from me too.

[FlyerTalker]

FlyerTalker -- please remember to follow the guidelines and be civil to fellow-posters.

I'm bringing rationality into the discussion vs the emotion shown by some others.

 

Sorry that we can't seem to be allowed to discuss the deeper implications of Palsgraf and its relevance to river cruising.

[id4elizabeth]

Flyer talker - I'm actually confused. Would you tell me what your point is without referring to things like "Palsgraf"? I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

I think you're saying that any one of us could be a victim in any soft target where people gather, and if that's your point, I totally agree. But' I'm not sure that was your point. I'll admit, I'm just an "ordinary citizen" and not enlightened on many terms, so would honestly like to get your point.

 

Thanks!

[FlyerTalker]

Flyer talker - I'm actually confused. Would you tell me what your point is without referring to things like "Palsgraf"? I have no idea what you're talking about.

This was a court case posted by Host Jazzbeau that had nothing to do with security on the LIRR. I had posted this in response to HJ, and noted its non-relevance. That post no longer exists.

I think you're saying that any one of us could be a victim in any soft target where people gather, and if that's your point, I totally agree. But' I'm not sure that was your point. I'll admit, I'm just an "ordinary citizen" and not enlightened on many terms, so would honestly like to get your point

.

You are absolutely correct. There is a rational approach to terrorism and an emotional one. Everyone needs to make their own balance as to what they follow. However, the important thing is that we need to know the difference. "Facts" get tossed out like confetti on New Year's Eve. Knee-jerk reactions aren't recognized as such.

 

All people need to make their own evaluation, using whatever means they wish. What some may think is foolhardy, others may view as reasonable. And vice-versa. The key is to know what is fact, what is emotion and how you wish to weigh those in your decision making process. To give this a cruising example, try the decision of balcony cabin vs an interior one. There are rational factors and emotional ones. Not that either is "right" or "wrong", just that we need to first identify what's what and then assign our own personal value judgement to all factors.

 

That's what it is with evaluating security risks. There are some facts - there are no "safe spaces". There are some opinions. And finally some emotional reactions. All play into the individual decisions of each of us. Personally, I have no skin in the game with whatever ANY of you readers do. I do feel an obligation to point out what needs to go into that decision.

 

I'm a blunt person. In the end, reality always wins out over hopes and wishes - and often at the cost of disappointment and loss. In my view, best to get to brass tacks early in the process, know what influences your decisions and why, and then act on your personal choices. Choices have consequences, day in and day out. In the final analysis, knowledge is your best friend - be it knowledge of the world, of your home, of your family and most importantly, of yourself.

Edited November 17, 2015 by FlyerTalker

[papa B me]

This was a court case posted by Host Jazzbeau that had nothing to do with security on the LIRR. I had posted this in response to HJ, and noted its non-relevance. That post no longer exists.

.

You are absolutely correct. There is a rational approach to terrorism and an emotional one. Everyone needs to make their own balance as to what they follow. However, the important thing is that we need to know the difference. "Facts" get tossed out like confetti on New Year's Eve. Knee-jerk reactions aren't recognized as such.

 

All people need to make their own evaluation, using whatever means they wish. What some may think is foolhardy, others may view as reasonable. And vice-versa. The key is to know what is fact, what is emotion and how you wish to weigh those in your decision making process. To give this a cruising example, try the decision of balcony cabin vs an interior one. There are rational factors and emotional ones. Not that either is "right" or "wrong", just that we need to first identify what's what and then assign our own personal value judgement to all factors.

 

That's what it is with evaluating security risks. There are some facts - there are no "safe spaces". There are some opinions. And finally some emotional reactions. All play into the individual decisions of each of us. Personally, I have no skin in the game with whatever ANY of you readers do. I do feel an obligation to point out what needs to go into that decision.

 

I'm a blunt person. In the end, reality always wins out over hopes and wishes - and often at the cost of disappointment and loss. In my view, best to get to brass tacks early in the process, know what influences your decisions and why, and then act on your personal choices. Choices have consequences, day in and day out. In the final analysis, knowledge is your best friend - be it knowledge of the world, of your home, of your family and most importantly, of yourself.

 

I fundamentally agree with the basis of your argument when it comes to acquiring facts to make a sound decision as to whether to travel or not travel to a specific location at a specific time. With all that is going on we are leaving for Munich a week from Saturday for a few days then a river cruise from Budapest to Passau.

 

Where I disagree with you is both the forum and tone for the conversation. Cruise critic is in essence a travel blog to learn about river cruising, cruise companies, ships, experiences, ports, etc... It isn't best suited for political and psychological debate. When a thread begins to lose the premise of information and sharing personal experiences to prove posters are either right or wrong about a particular subject the tone of the thread seems to deteriorate quickly. I believe that is what happened in this thread.

 

In addition, the primary point of a vacation or leisure travel is to relax, enjoy the experience, and create lifetime memories. So whether a decision is made logically or emotionally to travel or not to travel due to terrorism, migrants, river levels,etc... the bottom line is that if it effects the overall enjoyment and relaxation of a trip then it would be better not to travel whether the decision was made logically or not.

 

I appreciate your directness and encourage you to always share your experience and opinions. However, I believe we all have to give one another the basic courtesy to voice the same without reprimand or belittlement.

 

I generally, try to stay out of the fray on CC and only contribute if I have first hand knowledge of a subject or am seeking specific advice or input. So I'm breaking my own internal rules on responding to this. But I believe during these turbulent times we all need to show a little more grace and compassion to one another even when others hold a different view then our own.

 

Just one man's opinion.

[caviargal]

I appreciate your directness and encourage you to always share your experience and opinions. However, I believe we all have to give one another the basic courtesy to voice the same without reprimand or belittlement.

 

I generally, try to stay out of the fray on CC and only contribute if I have first hand knowledge of a subject or am seeking specific advice or input. So I'm breaking my own internal rules on responding to this. But I believe during these turbulent times we all need to show a little more grace and compassion to one another even when others hold a different view then our own.

 

Just one man's opinion.

 

Bravo, papa!

[Barrheadlass]

Bravo, papa!

 

Ditto.

[Host Jazzbeau]

This was a court case posted by Host Jazzbeau that had nothing to do with security on the LIRR.

 

When you post about issues relating to flying, you seem to know a lot. On other topics, your credentials are not obvious. Palsgraf is a court case from 1928 about an explosion on the Long Island Rail Road. While the description sometimes euphemistically talks about "fireworks" there is reason to believe that it involved what is now called an Improvised Explosive Device (IED -- sound familiar from the Middle East?) and that the perpetrator was an Anarchist [the 1920s version of today's Terrorists]. I therefore thought the case was very relevant to the discussion -- especially since you had just made a reference to the Long Island Rail Road.

[Ballater]

I'll have to stop reading this thread. I leave for Germany and a river cruise in a week, and it's making me scared.

[Got2Cruise]

I'll have to stop reading this thread. I leave for Germany and a river cruise in a week, and it's making me scared.

 

Don't be scared! Enjoy your trip! They will be super vigilant now, so soon after the attacks. It is when people start getting lax is when we need to worry.

 

If it makes you feel any better, they found some Syrians trying to sneak into St. Maarten in the Caribbean but they caught them. Like I said, everyone is super vigilant now.

 

Also, don't confuse opinions as facts. . .jmo :)

[pully8]

have a great trip. anything we do in life has risks even getting out of bed or staying in bed for that matter.

[Hydrokitty]

I'll have to stop reading this thread. I leave for Germany and a river cruise in a week, and it's making me scared.

 

Please don't be scared and I am so sorry if I added to your discomfort. Got2 Cruise and Pully 8 are right, security flying to Europe and back will be tighter now than it was last week. I think you're probably safer on a river cruise than anywhere else because you're not as high profile. Please go and have a good time and don't worry. I will not be posting any thing else on this subject matter.

[LOU]

We are booked with Viking in Paris for next July. We have no intentions of changing our plans. What would have happened if tourists stopped visiting New York after 9/11 ? I am in New York often and it is packed with tourists. We can't let the bad acts affect all the good that the future has to offer..

[bcirish]

We are safe and Viking is taking good care of us. We are midway on our cities of lights tour destination Paris. We are going to Paris- it is deemed safe. Last night We were given an option to bypass Paris and fly home from Luxembourg or Frankfort. We will go on and feel very safe as we have the entire time. Hope this puts some more at ease. Those waiting to come- do not worry - they take care of you well.

With us, they with the LUFTANSA strike, low river levels and the Paris bombing and they have cared for us flawlessly and kept us well informed. We are quite impressed.