When did Margaritaville become a specialty on Escape?

[Loonbeam]

Based on multiple sources, the issue doesn't seem to be staffing but the ability of the physical kitchen facility to handle the actual load. There is only so much you can put on a grilltop at one time, for example. Staffing might help, but it sounds like a structural redesign or major menu overhaul (which probably requires partner approval) would be the only options to keep it complimentary.

 

None of the above. My understanding is that even when there was an hour or more wait time many many MANY tables sat unused. Why? Because they either didn't have enough kitchen help to get out the orders or because they didn't have enough floor staff to take the orders, etc.

 

My solution would be like any restaurant on land would do if they found they had empty tables but people still waiting to be seated and served.

 

Add more kitchen help and add more floor help.

 

There is no reason why a 2-top or a 4-top, etc. sits empty when there are people waiting and wanting that table UNLESS the venue can't handle the crowd. Solution....more staff cooking and/or taking orders.

 

Harriet

[aubreyc1988]

Though I have never sailed on carnival from what I hear the shows are crappy that's where Norwegian competes its strongest

 

I will agree that Carnival's shows are terrible, and it's the main reason I dislike Carnival as a cruiseline, but we are not comparing NCL and Carnival's entertainment, just their free dining choices.

[aubreyc1988]

Based on multiple sources, the issue doesn't seem to be staffing but the ability of the physical kitchen facility to handle the actual load. There is only so much you can put on a grilltop at one time, for example. Staffing might help, but it sounds like a structural redesign or major menu overhaul (which probably requires partner approval) would be the only options to keep it complimentary.

 

the easiest solution is to simplify the menu - it's probably the main problem with a kitchen of that size - if they simplified the menu to things that can be still high quality, but are easier to expedite, lines will decrease.

[dna529]

OP here. Wow- what a lot of opinions! Here's my 2 cents... no this will not make or break my cruise in January but I'll tell you what it does- I was all set to book two rooms on the Epic for next year yesterday. I have one cruise credit to use for one room. But the thought of paying NCL $500 for the second room deposit just did not sit well with me after finding out they have no problem with this bait and switch tactic.

[SmoothCruising]

That's fine. But do you care or have any feelings about NCL claiming something is complementary, taking your money with that being the case and then changing it to a 'pay' venue after the fact?

 

Harriet

 

Harriet,

 

One thing I've learned in life is that change is constant and I either adapt to it or I don't. I certainly don't think NCL was nefarious in changing Margaritaville to a non-complementary restaurant and personally, I’m glad they did if it will alleviate the long wait. NCL made the change out of necessity and you will either pay for it or you won’t. It’s no more complicated than that and it’s your choice.

[LanceB]

Sometimes business decisions have unintended consequences.

 

"Within the first 10 minutes of opening yesterday, Margaritaville at Sea -- a complimentary dining venue in partnership with musician Jimmy Buffett -- had an hour-plus wait time. New, highly anticipated and free, the venue was a huge draw for lunch offering conch fritters, club sandwiches, fish tacos and, of course, its signature cheeseburgers and margaritas."

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=6647

 

The reasons for this change seems to be because the wait in line for Margaritaville has been 1 hour+ and the venue was overwhelmed, so they are charging in order to control crowds. As the Escape is configured, other than charging to reduce the crowds, there is not much else NCL could do until they figure out a way to relocate Margaritaville or make it much larger. The only alternatives would be to shut it down and try to rebuild the venue while the ship is cruising which might not be possible OR send the ship to an unscheduled dry dock, canceling thousands of people's cruises or choose to shut down Margaritaville altogether. Otherwise, NCL will need to figure out how to fix this problem and make the changes on the first dry dock.

 

What I don't expect is for NCL to allow a venue that is overwhelmed to continually be overwhelmed. The 1 hour waiting line alone is potentially disruptive and dangerous to the pool deck. That is a true safety issue for passengers and crew. I can understand how NCL made this business mistake however. This is the first low-end chain restaurant they have ever opened on one of their ships. Apparently NCL underestimated the popularity. If you compare to say RCCL which has Johnny Rockets on some ships, it is a similarly small venue, that RCCL has had to extend seating for on the deck in front of the restaurant, but even that is not quite the same as Margaritavile, due to the cocktails and name recognition. So, I think NCL really didn't have a real business model at sea to plan around. The end result is they have underestimated and installed a low seating capacity restaurant that is wildly too popular.

 

I have often wondered why some cruise line didn't open a Carlos'n Charlies or Señor Frogs or Dick's Last Resort (not that I would go to any of these.) Now we know what it would be like. These places are clearly making money and if put on a cruise ship, I believe they would also make money and be as popular as Margaritaville, if not more so. The biggest issue appears to be that they will need a good sized venue on the ship for the capacity of people who would go there. So then the question is what ship real estate is traded off for this sort of venue and, of course, another question is what is the staying power? It's hard to know. But clearly there are a lot of people who want to go to this venue.

 

So, Harriet, what would you have NCL do to try to solve the unexpected capacity problem? Pull the ship for an emergency dry dock? Move Margaritaville into one of the MDRs? Try to rebuild the venue while cruising? Wait it out and hope Margaritavile becomes a lot less popular? Shut it down altogether?

 

While the food at any Margaritaville is mediocre at best, the brand is what draws folks (including my wife and I) in. If space is a problem, why didn't some genius at NCL combine the 5'lock bar with the restaurant ??? This was a no-brainer! Why 2 venues? As far as the price, I think a flat fee like $7.50 or so like JR would be more acceptable, the current menu pricing is actually pretty high compared to other a la carte venues.

 

It would be insanely great if absolutely no one went to there for the next couple of cruises. I know we won't.

[Reader0108598]

Maybe this is a big marketing ploy, in another month, they'll announce they've we've been heard and Margaritaville will be a $4.95 cover charge. We'll all rejoice and think what a swell bunch they are :)

 

 

Bingo!!!

However you were not supposed to be smart enough to figure that out!

Edited November 28, 2015 by Reader0108598

[duchesslt]

This thread is such an interesting case study in brand loyalty and consumer behavior in general. I tend to disagree that if I sold you something as included in your price, I can change the terms after final payment. Perhaps before would be somewhat acceptable, so you can make up your mind if you still want the product or service. I don't mind paying more if it means better quality and service experience - I just don't want to be switched after paying.

 

If customer loyalty matters to the cruise line, they lost mine - unless service is outstanding.

 

I am hugely loyal to the Marriott brand. I'm a platinum, I own a vacation club week plus points - and the reason I am brand loyal is that Marriott offers consistency no matter what locale I stay at and great service. Marriott changes but they do not expect me to pay more than that which we bargained for once I lock in my reservation. Norwegian needs to consider a similar approach. It seems I got lucky with the UDP but those with SDP or who chose to pay as they go did not get what they were sold.

[BermudaBound2014]

Harriet,

 

 

 

One thing I've learned in life is that change is constant and I either adapt to it or I don't. I certainly don't think NCL was nefarious in changing Margaritaville to a non-complementary restaurant and personally, I’m glad they did if it will alleviate the long wait. NCL made the change out of necessity and you will either pay for it or you won’t. It’s no more complicated than that and it’s your choice.

 

 

Necessity? Please explain....

[CasinoCruzGirl]

Will the chain Margaritaville get the profits on this?

[blueclawfan]

http://cruiseradio.net/norwegian-adds-cover-charge-to-margaritaville/

 

This article state that guests were notified by email of the changes. I have NOT received any notification - have you?? :mad:

 

no email to this cruiser

[SmoothCruising]

Necessity? Please explain....

 

Alleviate long lines, overcrowding and overwhelmed kitchen and staff. To me and apparently NCL it’s necessary to fix the problem; i.e. it’s a necessity to get the problem fixed one way or the other.

 

It’s easy for people that know little about the options to state that they need more waiters, waitresses and/or kitchen help but perhaps that’s just not feasible. Charging just a small amount will likely work and keep the hogs from gathering at the trough. I would probably make the same decision based on what I know.

[Reader0108598]

Alleviate long lines, overcrowding and overwhelmed kitchen and staff. To me and apparently NCL it’s necessary to fix the problem; i.e. it’s a necessity to get the problem fixed one way or the other.

 

It’s easy for people that know little about the options to state that they need more waiters, waitresses and/or kitchen help but perhaps that’s just not feasible. Charging just a small amount will likely work and keep the hogs from gathering at the trough. I would probably make the same decision based on what I know.

 

"hogs from gathering at the trough" Are you referring to the customers NCL has been wooing?

Amazing how a business can get their customers to turn on one another to fatten the bottom line of said business!

Edited November 28, 2015 by Reader0108598

[janpo]

Really? Are the prices higher than the on-land Margaritaville restaurants?

 

Lets see....it was advertised as complimentary since before it was built. Now its a pay venue so yes....its overpriced.

[MBMGWM]

>>>Originally Posted by hpecorari View Post

That's fine. But do you care or have any feelings about NCL claiming something is complementary, taking your money with that being the case and then changing it to a 'pay' venue after the fact?<<<Harriet

 

 

Harriet,

One thing I've learned in life is that change is constant and I either adapt to it or I don't. I certainly don't think NCL was nefarious in changing Margaritaville to a non-complementary restaurant and personally, I’m glad they did if it will alleviate the long wait. NCL made the change out of necessity and you will either pay for it or you won’t. It’s no more complicated than that and it’s your choice.

 

I've been sitting this one out for a little while to collect my thoughts about the Margaritaville change. My initial thoughts were two-fold: (1) The free Margaritaville restaurant wasn't going to make my upcoming cruise on Escape a total success, just as having to pay (or skip) Margaritaville isn't going to ruin my cruise; BUT...(2) This is bait-and-switch on NCL's part, pure and simple. Something that was included at the time we reserved our cruise, and was still included at the time of our final payment, is now an added-fee attraction. The options seem to be: (a) just shrug our shoulders and accept the extra fees; (b) skip going to Margaritaville entirely (thus eliminating at least one meal there that we surely would have taken); © approach our TA or NCL directly about the situation and request some onboard credit (OBC) to compensate us for the "lost" included meal (I figure a $25 cabin credit would cover the food charge for a reasonable meal for two people there, and if we decide to go there more than once, then we'll cover the additional cost ourselves); or (d) failing that, deduct the cost of one Margaritaville meal from the onboard service charges (OSC) we pay at the end of the cruise, or deduct them from gratuities over and above the OSC that we would have otherwise given to the staff during our cruise.

 

Quite frankly, option (d) is not an attractive one to us, because it places the burden on the hard-working folks who deserve to receive their tips, gratuities, and share of the OSC's. We have never deducted anything from such funds on any of our past cruises, and we'd definitely prefer not to go that route on the Escape. The best option, to me, would seem to be © above. Many passengers will either use (a) or (b), and that will help solve the "overcrowding" problem. But for the folks who feel strongly that NCL has taken an unfair tactic, and who approach NCL calmly to discuss their displeasure with the turn of events, NCL would be doing themselves, and their passengers who feel this way, a favor with some good customer relations to relent and grant an OBC. But if NCL refuses to make any sort of an adjustment, then we're back to (a), (b) or (d). If a passenger goes with (a), then the passenger forks out extra money for a formerly free meal *AND* NCL gets rewarded for its bait-and-switch tactic with extra revenues. Not an attractive option to some, including me. If a passenger goes with (b), then NCL isn't rewarded with extra revenues (but it does get "rewarded" with smaller crowds), but then the passengers lose out on a venue they may have been looking forward to as an included feature of their cruise.

 

Reading thru some of the posts here it's obvious where some of you come down. I wonder, though, if enough passengers go with option ©, while holding out the possibility of option (d) as a threat if they don't receive satisfaction (whether or not they would actually use option (d)), if it might pressure NCL enough to relent on either the a la carte charges entirely, or to at least make it an official policy of giving out a $25 cabin credit for those who insist upon it.

 

So...where do you come down???

[dna529]

I like choice C, but if everyone does this and NCL gives the obc, the venue will still be too crowded.

Edited November 28, 2015 by dna529

[MBMGWM]

I like choice C, but if everyone does this and NCL gives the obc, the venue will still be too crowded.

 

 

Perhaps. But not everybody will bother to complain and seek the OBC, while others might accept the OBC but then choose to use it elsewhere on the ship, rather than at Margaritaville, thus thinning the herd.

 

And by the way using the "if everybody does this" argument also cuts against the alleged reason for the a la carte charge - - because if everybody pays the extra charges, then Margaritaville will also still be too crowded!

[SuiteTraveler]

None of the above. My understanding is that even when there was an hour or more wait time many many MANY tables sat unused. Why? Because they either didn't have enough kitchen help to get out the orders or because they didn't have enough floor staff to take the orders, etc.

 

My solution would be like any restaurant on land would do if they found they had empty tables but people still waiting to be seated and served.

 

Add more kitchen help and add more floor help.

 

There is no reason why a 2-top or a 4-top, etc. sits empty when there are people waiting and wanting that table UNLESS the venue can't handle the crowd. Solution....more staff cooking and/or taking orders.

 

Harriet

 

I am wondering if an additional issue was that people were ordering too many things off the menu at one time. If a table for 2 comes in and orders 6 appetizers and 2 entrees and then 2 beverages every 15 to 20 minutes and other tables do similar, that is going to put the kitchen under a lot of stress where they likely cannot seat more tables until they get the orders under control. I'm also wondering about provisioning and if that was also a problem where they expected to do 500 tops per day but were doing more like 750 or the equivalent of for when people over ordered. The thing to understand about the staff doing the cooking is you can't just pile people on the stations as it will create chaos and a dangerous situation in the galley. From what I've read, the kitchen for this venue is small. So they may not have a lot of options about adding staff in there.

 

Do we know many tables this venue has? From the photos it looks like about 30 inside and a half a dozen outside.

[SuiteTraveler]

While the food at any Margaritaville is mediocre at best, the brand is what draws folks (including my wife and I) in. If space is a problem, why didn't some genius at NCL combine the 5'lock bar with the restaurant ??? This was a no-brainer! Why 2 venues? As far as the price, I think a flat fee like $7.50 or so like JR would be more acceptable, the current menu pricing is actually pretty high compared to other a la carte venues.

 

It would be insanely great if absolutely no one went to there for the next couple of cruises. I know we won't.

 

I guess I'm puzzled as to what there is about this brand that would draw anyone in if the food is mediocre at best? Why would people go on vacation in the Caribbean (or anywhere else) and go to some American chain restaurant/bar? Does anyone else think that going out of the country and then spending your time in an American chain restaurant/bar doesn't make any sense? But then there are McDonalds everywhere...

[SmoothCruising]

"hogs from gathering at the trough" Are you referring to the customers NCL has been wooing?

Amazing how a business can get their customers to turn on one another to fatten the bottom line of said business!

 

I'm not turning on anybody I simply stated that a small charge will keep the "hogs from gathering at the trough". People acting like "hogs at a trough" is not uncommon and it most frequently occurs at a buffet or "free" meal. A small charge will eliminate such a problem.

[duchesslt]

"hogs from gathering at the trough" Are you referring to the customers NCL has been wooing?

Amazing how a business can get their customers to turn on one another to fatten the bottom line of said business!

 

Does NCL woo food hoarders? Ugh - I have seen that o a cruise before (Carnival) and it made me ill. It seems obscene to order a Burger with a Taco Side, Nacho Side, Conch Fritter Side, and on and on and on. Maybe they should've kept it free through for sailings up to all those available for booking until the change, but up to one appetizer, entrée and desert. :eek:

[maywell]

I'm not turning on anybody I simply stated that a small charge will keep the "hogs from gathering at the trough". People acting like "hogs at a trough" is not uncommon and it most frequently occurs at a buffet or "free" meal. A small charge will eliminate such a problem.

 

Sadly or Happily, depending on how one see it - its true. All it takes to keep some people who want to abuse the privilege, in this case, free food from known franchise that charges alot on land; is charge a la carte prices at $2.99-7.99. Then, only people that have the money and/or willing to pay at those prices, will be only ones to eat there - and that's true about any specialty restaurant on a ship, not just NCL.

[electro]

I'm not turning on anybody I simply stated that a small charge will keep the "hogs from gathering at the trough". People acting like "hogs at a trough" is not uncommon and it most frequently occurs at a buffet or "free" meal. A small charge will eliminate such a problem.

 

But it is not a "small charge". A $5 cover charge is a small charge. Close to $20 for a burger, fries and coleslaw on a cruise is ridiculous!

[Reader0108598]

I'm not turning on anybody I simply stated that a small charge will keep the "hogs from gathering at the trough". People acting like "hogs at a trough" is not uncommon and it most frequently occurs at a buffet or "free" meal. A small charge will eliminate such a problem.

 

Sorry not referring to my fellow cruiser as a "Hog at a trough" but you go right ahead !

[janpo]

Alleviate long lines, overcrowding and overwhelmed kitchen and staff. To me and apparently NCL it’s necessary to fix the problem; i.e. it’s a necessity to get the problem fixed one way or the other.

 

It’s easy for people that know little about the options to state that they need more waiters, waitresses and/or kitchen help but perhaps that’s just not feasible. Charging just a small amount will likely work and keep the hogs from gathering at the trough. I would probably make the same decision based on what I know.

 

 

They are not charging a "small amount". Have you checked out their pricing?

 

Hogs gathering at a trough. Nice.

Edited November 28, 2015 by janpo