Shame on hal

[InTheWASide]

And Cruise Director's staff. (Unless you count them as entertainment.)

 

I was but some may not so good clarification

[richwmn]

And even when the ships use a US shipyard, the shipyard (just as Freeport does) only provides the labor and expertise for the marine portion of the shipyard repairs, not the hotel refurbishments. It gets a little more complex with visas in the US, but the lines will still bring in their tiger teams from Europe and Asia to do the refurbishments. Heck, we did just that for the Norwegian Sky in San Francisco when she came into the shipyard as a Bahamian flag ship and left as a US flag ship (Pride of Aloha).

Just curious - when did this happen and does it mean that there are now 2 cruise ships flying the US Flag?

[chengkp75]

Just curious - when did this happen and does it mean that there are now 2 cruise ships flying the US Flag?

 

That was 2004, when the Aloha was moved from being planned as the second US flag cruise ship to the first, when the America sank at the builder's yard in Germany. There were 3 US flag ships in the 2004-2008 period, the Aloha, America, and Hawaii. The Hawaii flagged out in 2007, and the Aloha in 2008, leaving just the America.

[catl331]

Just curious - when did this happen and does it mean that there are now 2 cruise ships flying the US Flag?

Looks to me like the NCL Sky (Bahamas) changed to Pride of Aloha (US) from 2004 to 2008, then went back to being Sky (Bahamas):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Sky

 

edit: sorry chengkp75 ... you were answering while I was researching.

Edited December 8, 2015 by catl331

[serendipity1499]

Just got off the Eurodam's 8 day Caribbean cruise. While the cruise was fine there are a few things I really found offensive and I feel the need to share them. First off, our cruise was the last before the Eurodam goes into drydock in Freeport. As we got off, we saw a large number of Ukrainian/Russians waiting to get on. We found out there were 1200 contractors boarding the ship to do the work while she's in drydock in Freeport. Importing workers? Are you kidding me? Why not hire American workers to supplement Bahamian workers? Our American $'s make up the majority of their overall reveneue I would suspect.

Secondly, in Half Moon Cay there are local women who independently run the straw market inside their "controlled zone" there on a cash only basis. But passengers are told they only need itheir cruise card onshore. I did a little shopping there and heard at least 5 passengers in a 10 minute period say they didn't realize they couldn't pay with their cruise card, so they lost the sale. These people ride a boat 1 and 1/2 hour each way to come to the island and their only income is from these sales. Passengers should be informed. Also, on Half Moon Cay HAL has chosen to only carry 3 beers from the ship. They refuse to purchase from the local brewers any Kalik and/or Sands. I'm in the Bahamas, not Holland, I want local beers.

 

IMO you are being naïve about American workers.. Most of them don't want to work under those conditions & their unions limit them in the amount of hours they can put in each week.. The costs would be prohibitive if they hired American workers..

 

Maybe we should think about stopping the purchasing of food, cars, appliances, clothing, electronics, etc. made out of this country.. Also, perhaps we all should stop booking foreign flag carriers.. HAL's newest ship, was built abroad & just left the Italian shipyard Francari (sp?) in Italy..

 

Everything we buy in the U.S. seems to be made abroad.. I still try to purchase from the local farmers, when available, but even many of our vegtables are imported..

 

Can't comment on the local beers part of your post, as don't know what HAL's contract is with the Bahama's.. It's been my understanding that all food & drinks must be supplied by the ship's when they go into the Bahamas, but I could be wrong....

Edited December 8, 2015 by serendipity1499

[chengkp75]

IMO you are being naïve about American workers.. Most of them don't want to work under those conditions & their unions limit them in the amount of hours they can put in each week.. The costs would be prohibitive if they hired American workers..

 

Maybe we should think about stopping the purchasing of food, cars, appliances, clothing, electronics, etc. made out of this country.. Also, perhaps we all should stop booking foreign flag carriers.. HAL's newest ship, was built abroad & just left the Italian shipyard Francari (sp?) in Italy..

 

Everything we buy in the U.S. seems to be made abroad.. I still try to purchase from the local farmers, when available, but even many of our vegtables are imported..

 

Can't comment on the local beers part of your post, as don't know what HAL's contract is with the Bahama's....

 

I can't think of any union in the maritime industry in the US that will limit the number of hours the workers work. Some times they will require hiring additional workers to work straight time, rather than paying workers overtime, but that is not unique to the US. I was repairing a ship in Germany, and one of those emergency jobs came up while in shipyard that would have precluded us from leaving on time, so we wanted the yard to work 3 shifts on the project (they were only working 2 shifts on everything else), and we were informed that the yard would have to make a presentation to the federal department of labor to explain why they were going to pay overtime to workers to work the extra shift, rather than hiring new workers, even though it was less than a week's time to complete.

 

What is even more expensive than US wages are the regulations and laws. In Freeport, there is no OSHA making safety requirements, which cost money. There is no mandatory health coverage or worker's compensation, which costs money. There is no culture of suing the employer for damages when a worker is injured, so there is no costly insurance.

[sail7seas]

richstowe

Exactly . I've found there is lots of finger wagging but people inevitable choose the cheaper option .

 

 

 

One could suggest vacationing in U.S. and not leaving 'home' to keep all travel dollars in domestic hotels, restaurants, shops/stores, tours etc

 

Why leave U.S. and spend money outside the country at all? :confused:

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by sail7seas

[richwmn]

That was 2004, when the Aloha was moved from being planned as the second US flag cruise ship to the first, when the America sank at the builder's yard in Germany. There were 3 US flag ships in the 2004-2008 period, the Aloha, America, and Hawaii. The Hawaii flagged out in 2007, and the Aloha in 2008, leaving just the America.

 

Looks to me like the NCL Sky (Bahamas) changed to Pride of Aloha (US) from 2004 to 2008, then went back to being Sky (Bahamas):

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Sky

 

edit: sorry chengkp75 ... you were answering while I was researching.

I knew about the earlier (04-08) sequence, but the way you answered it seemed to me that a more recent re-flagging had occurred.

[InTheWASide]

One could suggest vacationing in U.S. and not leaving 'home' to keep all travel dollars in domestic hotels, restaurants, shops/stores, tours etc

 

Why leave U.S. and spend money outside the country at all? :confused:

 

 

And even that isn't a "fail safe". Many companies are multi-national or may have overseas ownership, parent corporations, etc.

 

Seems like a lot of research in store for the finger-waggers... More than I would ever want to deal with :)

[CaveDiving]

...our cruise was the last before the Eurodam goes into drydock in Freeport. As we got off, we saw a large number of Ukrainian/Russians waiting to get on. We found out there were 1200 contractors boarding the ship to do the work while she's in drydock in Freeport. Importing workers? Are you kidding me? Why not hire American workers to supplement Bahamian workers? Our American $'s make up the majority of their overall reveneue I would suspect.

Secondly, in Half Moon Cay there are local women who independently run the straw market inside their "controlled zone" there on a cash only basis. But passengers are told they only need itheir cruise card onshore. I did a little shopping there and heard at least 5 passengers in a 10 minute period say they didn't realize they couldn't pay with their cruise card, so they lost the sale. These people ride a boat 1 and 1/2 hour each way to come to the island and their only income is from these sales. Passengers should be informed. Also, on Half Moon Cay HAL has chosen to only carry 3 beers from the ship. They refuse to purchase from the local brewers any Kalik and/or Sands. I'm in the Bahamas, not Holland, I want local beers.

 

When I read your posting, my first thought was not ”Shame on hal” as was your title, but rather perhaps a reconsideration would have been desirable before posting such a diatribe of personal opinions and attempting to blame HAL for not following your direction. You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but I do not believe it is required or possibly even desirable for this direction necessarily to be followed by anyone else.

 

HAL is a business and as such, takes actions to benefit its profit/loss record. If this were not the case, I would worry about the future of the company. Perhaps at some time in the future, American labor costs may become competitive, but I’m afraid that time is a bit off. Also just possibly, you may not have heard the information given out that tips and the straw market require cash on Half Moon Cay. And blaming HAL (rather than requesting a reassessment for the future) for not selling some local beers, is not, IMHO, a significant criticism. A reasonable suggestion surely but the cause for a major complaint, questionable.

 

Scott & Karen

[sppunk]

To the OP, I see you like Princess. Do you realize Princess is just like HAL and does not employee Americans for these things?

 

Just checking. I'll hang up and listen.

[kazu]

Re: HMC - I am quite sure there was something in the On Location or in the port information about needing cash for the stalls as I had cash the first time we went and always take a bit in case.

 

So, it was either there or announced because otherwise, how would I know the first time?

[Copper10-8]

You'll find the majority of the Yanks in the Entertainment Dept, some work in Admin, some in the Spa; some are photographers, some work in the shops, others are PSA's; there is currently one U.S. hotel director and, oh yeah, two yank SO's

 

Forgot Medical; lost of Americans (and Canucks :)) there as Docs and nurses/medical officers

[kevingastreich]

Just curious,.... how many US citizens are on average part of a HAL ship's crew?

 

10?

 

You're probably right..the piano man and the activities person on my last cruise.

[SilvertoGold]

Forgot Medical; lost of Americans (and Canucks :)) there as Docs and nurses/medical officers

 

Appreciate your sharing knowledge!

However, seems that you're slipping a bit: better get back on one of those Dam ships soon!! And have a great time of it, too!

[Copper10-8]

[quote name='SilvertoGold']Appreciate your sharing knowledge!
However, seems that you're slipping a bit: better get back on one of those Dam ships soon!! And have a great time of it, too![/QUOTE]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]Oh yeah; misplacing one little letter can change the outcome of an entire sentence ;) Thanks for catching that! [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] Edited December 9, 2015 by Copper10-8

[iancal]

My best guess is that every one of the American Fortune 500 firms are outsourcing work to lower cost areas. Everything from legal work to EA's to CSR's, help desks, manufacturing. Names like Hp, IBM, major banks etc have, and still are, outsourcing thousands of US jobs. Not to mention just about every major international auto and truck manufacturer are have been busy re-locating plants to Mexico and SE Asia.

Not fair to single out HAL. Besides, as OP's have said....you would not be willing to pay the fares required for an all US workforce. Nor would you attain the same level of on board service. Tax avoidance, cost saving, and avoiding labor legislation is exactly why all the Carnival Corp, Celebrity, NCL, etc offshore everthing including their letters patent. Edited December 9, 2015 by iancal

[TheEmerson]

[quote name='Copper10-8'][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]
Forgot about VEDM's emergency dry-dock in Philly, thanks Roy![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Amsterdam did it's drydock before the World Cruise in 2014 in SF.

[TheEmerson]

If people think cruise ship dry dock being performed in Non-US docks, wait until you look in detail on the C and D checks that are required by FAA on commercial aircraft. There are plenty that performed outside the US, on US based carriers that were built in the US.

[Copper10-8]

[quote name='TheEmerson']Amsterdam did it's drydock before the World Cruise in 2014 in SF.[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][COLOR="Navy"]Yes in Dec 2013 ;) and, prior to that, she was there (BAE Systems SF Ship Repair) in 2010[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] Edited December 9, 2015 by Copper10-8

[sckal]

[quote name='catl331']Beer--is there some type of Bahamian laws here? HAL doesn't own the island.

I guess it would be nice to know you need cash for those stalls because nothing else on the cruise uses cash. We did use our ship card in the original store at HMC. They must be making some money or they wouldn't be there.

I guess it would be interesting to learn what RCI and Princess rules are for their isles.[/QUOTE]

I buy Bahamian beer with no issue on Princess Cay. As I stated. I'm sure they make money, but think how you would feel if you owned a business that was cash only in a mall that told customers to only bring credit cards.

[sckal]

[quote name='richwmn']I would add that if you are really serious about protecting American jobs stay out of most, if not all, of the major chain stores. A very high percentage of the items (well over 2/3) they sell are made in China - to include the computer you use and the cell phone you talk on. You could not afford them unless they are made overseas.[/QUOTE]

I live in a small town and buy from local stores, and, unlike most I pay more anytime I can to buy American goods instead of foreign made ones. I support shoe companies that still make shoes in America, clothing manufacturers that make clothes here, local artists, local farmers and more. I wonder, do you do the same?

[sckal]

[quote name='CaveDiving']When I read your posting, my first thought was not ”Shame on hal” as was your title, but rather perhaps a reconsideration would have been desirable before posting such a diatribe of personal opinions and attempting to blame HAL for not following your direction. You are of course entitled to your own opinion, but I do not believe it is required or possibly even desirable for this direction necessarily to be followed by anyone else.

HAL is a business and as such, takes actions to benefit its profit/loss record. If this were not the case, I would worry about the future of the company. Perhaps at some time in the future, American labor costs may become competitive, but I’m afraid that time is a bit off. Also just possibly, you may not have heard the information given out that tips and the straw market require cash on Half Moon Cay. And blaming HAL (rather than requesting a reassessment for the future) for not selling some local beers, is not, IMHO, a significant criticism. A reasonable suggestion surely but the cause for a major complaint, questionable.

Scott & Karen[/QUOTE]

Thank you Scott and Karen. Please re read my post, it was not I that indicted that I was told not to bring cash ashore. I did, because of my experiences with over 25 cruises, I always bring cash. It was at least a dozen other people who told the vendors that the ship's crew told them they didn't need to bring cash.

[Boytjie]

[quote name='sckal']I live in a small town and buy from local stores, and, unlike most I pay more anytime I can to buy American goods instead of foreign made ones. I support shoe companies that still make shoes in America, clothing manufacturers that make clothes here, local artists, local farmers and more. I wonder, do you do the same?[/quote]

Yet when you go on a cruise, you sail on foreign flagged ships (both HAL and Princess) that hire almost no Americans. Why aren't you consistent? Edited December 9, 2015 by Boytjie

[CaveDiving]

[quote name='sckal']Thank you Scott and Karen. Please re read my post, it was not I that indicted that I was told not to bring cash ashore. I did, because of my experiences with over 25 cruises, I always bring cash. It was at least a dozen other people who told the vendors that the ship's crew told them they didn't need to bring cash.[/QUOTE]

Hi sckal,

After rereading your original post, you are correct. I misinterpreted your posting to indicate that you did not get the word that money for tips and the straw market would be needed on Half Moon Cay. I apologize for suggesting that you may not have received the correct information.

Scott & Karen