Anthem keeps docking us around

[Ocean Dancer]

Gee, it's so nice around here now. Am I on the right thread?:)

 

Welcome back Karina. You conducted yourself with grace and class.

[shaun07]

DUH! Aquahound is a detective. If you watch NCIS........and the lead....is the same level that Aquahound is with CGIS.

 

And yes, he is brilliant at what he does and his reports are spot on. He gives information, much more than feelings.

 

I have read through this thread to this point..which I still have about 7 hours to catch up on.

 

I can tell a story of being caught up in a typhoon in the Sea of Japan. But I won't, because this thread is about those that were actually onboard.

 

When the seasoned Captain, who I know personally, said that this was his worst day at sea.........then I can accept anyone that was onboard to say that they might die, because they have never experienced anything like this in their lives.

 

Please, at this point, let the passengers tell their story. Whether it be good or bad, some of these people have just joined Cruise Critic, so that they can vent. That needs to be allowed.

 

This is my second post on this thread. I will only post, as Paul, and Cheng and a few others, have only answered with facts, while there seems to be more emotion coming from the CC members that were not aboard, as there are CC members that were aboard.

 

Blame can be put anywhere, and please let the ones that were aboard, make their blame be known. Most have no clue to the laws, but they need to vent!

 

Am I repeating myself!!??

 

Welcome home to everyone on the Anthem sailing to nowhere!!

 

Rick

 

well said

[Big_G]

Gee, it's so nice around here now. Am I on the right thread?:)

 

Welcome back Karina. You conducted yourself with grace and class.

 

Sarge started losing steam a while ago so things have calmed down.

[KarinaGW]

Here are the things I will say. (They ramble.)

 

Holy heck, yeah, Sunday night was pretty damn terrifying at times. I never felt actively in fear for my life but I can understand why people would have. I was on deck 7 port side and it seemed to have a permanent (what I felt then and appears to be true) 15-ish degree downhill towards starboard tilt pretty much the entire time with lots of bouncing and forward rocking. There were one or two moments when I felt myself freefalling above the bed which was freaky. We watched the SuperBowl (which stunk) without the commercials (the only things that make it worthwhile) and raided the minibar. Every time I heard an announcement, I pictured the Captain in a trance holding the ship in place by sheer force of will. The cruise prior to the event was fine. The cruise after the event was definitely changed, not for the better but the staff and the crew did their damndest to try and make sure that the passengers were as comfortable and happy as we could be given the circumstances despite the fact that each and every one of them had never experienced anything that terrifying in their lives either.

 

So, here's my bombshell (no pun intended)...while this was my worst cruise, it was not even close to being my least favorite cruise.

 

That said, here's what annoys me. Had the cruise followed it's original course and we had completed the it, I would have come off it and said. "Fine cruise, glad I tried Anthem, don't care for her, probably won't sail her again."

 

Now, I feel like I have to sail on her again just to prove it's not this past weekend keeping me away. OTOH, of the 2 ships I can get to from DC, I would take her over Grandeur in a second. Maybe I'll like Carnival's Pride when I have to sail on her for a programming cruise in January.

 

I am very proud of the passengers of Anthem. So much could have been so much worse but when push came to shove, everybody behaved with strength and the resilience that humans are capable of even (or maybe especially) when terrified. Once this common bond wore off and our various realities set in, I saw, met and talked to the same people that NJHousewife did. I also saw, met and talked to those who understood the situation (not liked, understood) and I also saw, met, and talked to people who had a genuinely good time (a smaller subset admittedly) throughout...I was probably more like those people, but have a healthier respect for the ocean than I think they did.

 

I was going to try to come up with something pithy to end this, but the best I can do is that I now have a new personal philosophy:

 

On a scale of 1 to Trapped on a Cruiseship in 150mph winds, how bad is the current circumstance?

 

Hugs to all who shared the experience. I am glad beyond words that we are all safe and sound and back in the arms of our family and friends.

Edited February 12, 2016 by KarinaGW

[Royalpair]

Nicely said, as usual for you:D

[Big_G]

Again, thanks Karina. It was a pleasure reading your posts and happy sailing on whatever ship you choose. :)

[kneught77]

http://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience/2016/02/11/note-to-cruise-lines-and-politicians-we-save-our-forecasts/

 

very interesting

 

It isn't interesting really... hurricane strength winds start at 74mph... there were a few weather forecasts predicting possible "hurricane strength winds".. but 74mph isn't anything crazy. Lots of cruises would go out riding the skirt of a storm. I have not seen anything anywhere that predicted 120-130mph winds (cat 3-4). And if someone can find it.. I would happily eat crow.

 

I was just on a cruise that was experiencing 60-65mph strength winds... some dips here and there.. but still able to enjoy the restaurants.. etc.

 

I just don't understand why anyone would think this company would ever put their ship and thousands of people at risk deliberately. It makes ZERO sense. Even if you thought they didn't care about peoples lives.. the bad PR and lawsuits would cause too many headaches for any company to deal with.:rolleyes:

[SuiteCruiser]

Let's see if this works or you. There are close to 5,000 passengers on board this ship. You have all just come out of a fairly scary two days. You are still out in the middle of the ocean with very few options as to where to dock and the seas are still choppy.

 

So let's get the captain to come on the PA and tell all the passengers that half the propulsion system for the ship is broken and we may have a few other things wrong that we do not know until we reach shore and we will have to limp into port. Do you think that response in the middle of the ocean would have been better than the one you got?

 

Why didn't they own up to it last night at 9:00 following your logic, that would have been the time, but no, all day RCI's been saying it's superficial and they'll be sailing on Saturday. It's starting to look worse for sure.

[Merion_Mom]

Karina, I met her on that cruise and she is as fabulous as you think she is. :D:p;)

.

 

aaaaaaaawwwwwww :o :o :o

[broberts]

No one lied about the condition of the ship. You misread that post. The link to the article was published 2 hours ago, which means that the CG inspection took place sometime today and that's when they discovered the damage.

 

That was when the USCG discovered the damage. Surely the master knew well before then. Otherwise, why was the ship sailing at less than 7 knots for nearly two days?

 

I am not sure I would categorize a propulsion unit unable to function normally as "superficial or cosmetic damage". But then I am not in marketing or media management.

[poz222]

So my quick 2 cents aka recap of events as I see them... I do not in any way believe that RCCL deliberately put their ship, crew and passengers in danger... But decisions which affect schedules, ports, staying, going, etc... Are a combined effort and coordination requiring MANY different people, departments and outside vendors (approvals from port, longshoremen, main office etc) and there are logistical as well as financial factors involved. The ultimate decision, regardless of the pressures from all these forces lies with the master of the vessel... That being said, I believe there might be a combined miscalculation of weather, overconfidence of vessel and/or crew and underestimation of conditions especially considering the type and design of the vessel and its performance in extreme conditions.

 

Once the event was over and things calmed down, initial assessments were done with all departments reporting. Initially, the marine ops of RCCL might have directed vessel to continue to port Canaveral. Sometime after that decision, (based on observations and descriptions of the "feel" of the ship, how they turned around and photos clearly showing port propulsion and significantly decreased forward progress) they probably discovered and issue with the propulsion system. At this point the chief engineer would be asked to asses the ships capability to either A. Return to home port or B. Make emergency stop in Port Canaveral. The home office would of course prefer returning to home port because the costs and logistical nightmare of transporting 4000 passengers back to their home is a total nightmare scenario (ask CCL about the Liberty and chartering 14 flights out of St. Thomas and flying in comtractors and marine operations and guest services teams)... So at some point RCCL probably realized they will need additional repairs and when the engineering department gave the green light to make it back to NYC, they chose to do so.

 

Being many of these "post incident" issues are decided by teams at the home office, they are not usually very rapid responses and take time and MANY approval levels. Once the ship was in its way back to port, the onboard team was probably spending all day and night evaluating and testing the system. The office was busy organizing parts and contractors to meet the ship Now in port, they are, I am sure, crazy trying to repair the system... any rumors being spread by crew members are just that, "rumors" because, unless there is a more personal,relationship going on, a waiter or bartender would not be getting "briefings" from the senior staff...

 

Now how this was handled from a PR standpoint is another matter... As CCL learned and I believe RCCL, now in the harsh spotlight is learning, pretending this never happened and total radio silence is not the proper way to handle bad press. There will always be cheerleaders and haters... The reality lies somewhere in between....

 

Again, just my observations combined with a bit of industry knowledge... Take as you will... An unfortunate incident for the passengers, RCCL and the cruise and travel industry as a whole...

[fin]

So my quick 2 cents aka recap of events as I see them... I do not in any way believe that RCCL deliberately put their ship, crew and passengers in danger... But decisions which affect schedules, ports, staying, going, etc... Are a combined effort and coordination requiring MANY different people, departments and outside vendors (approvals from port, longshoremen, main office etc) and there are logistical as well as financial factors involved. The ultimate decision, regardless of the pressures from all these forces lies with the master of the vessel... That being said, I believe there might be a combined miscalculation of weather, overconfidence of vessel and/or crew and underestimation of conditions especially considering the type and design of the vessel and its performance in extreme conditions.

 

Once the event was over and things calmed down, initial assessments were done with all departments reporting. Initially, the marine ops of RCCL might have directed vessel to continue to port Canaveral. Sometime after that decision, (based on observations and descriptions of the "feel" of the ship, how they turned around and photos clearly showing port propulsion and significantly decreased forward progress) they probably discovered and issue with the propulsion system. At this point the chief engineer would be asked to asses the ships capability to either A. Return to home port or B. Make emergency stop in Port Canaveral. The home office would of course prefer returning to home port because the costs and logistical nightmare of transporting 4000 passengers back to their home is a total nightmare scenario (ask CCL about the Liberty and chartering 14 flights out of St. Thomas and flying in comtractors and marine operations and guest services teams)... So at some point RCCL probably realized they will need additional repairs and when the engineering department gave the green light to make it back to NYC, they chose to do so.

 

Being many of these "post incident" issues are decided by teams at the home office, they are not usually very rapid responses and take time and MANY approval levels. Once the ship was in its way back to port, the onboard team was probably spending all day and night evaluating and testing the system. The office was busy organizing parts and contractors to meet the ship Now in port, they are, I am sure, crazy trying to repair the system... any rumors being spread by crew members are just that, "rumors" because, unless there is a more personal,relationship going on, a waiter or bartender would not be getting "briefings" from the senior staff...

 

Now how this was handled from a PR standpoint is another matter... As CCL learned and I believe RCCL, now in the harsh spotlight is learning, pretending this never happened and total radio silence is not the proper way to handle bad press. There will always be cheerleaders and haters... The reality lies somewhere in between....

 

Again, just my observations combined with a bit of industry knowledge... Take as you will... An unfortunate incident for the passengers, RCCL and the cruise and travel industry as a whole...

 

It is posts such as this one which justify wallowing through forty pages of mostly utter garbage. This is a gem, and one which the sharks in the media should glom onto and recite as holy gospel. Which of course, being the truth, they will more likely simply ignore it, in favor of "we listed at 45 degrees for six hours".

 

Thanks for the input!

[c-legs]

So my quick 2 cents aka recap of events as I see them... I do not in any way believe that RCCL deliberately put their ship, crew and passengers in danger... But decisions which affect schedules, ports, staying, going, etc... Are a combined effort and coordination requiring MANY different people, departments and outside vendors (approvals from port, longshoremen, main office etc) and there are logistical as well as financial factors involved. The ultimate decision, regardless of the pressures from all these forces lies with the master of the vessel... That being said, I believe there might be a combined miscalculation of weather, overconfidence of vessel and/or crew and underestimation of conditions especially considering the type and design of the vessel and its performance in extreme conditions.

 

Once the event was over and things calmed down, initial assessments were done with all departments reporting. Initially, the marine ops of RCCL might have directed vessel to continue to port Canaveral. Sometime after that decision, (based on observations and descriptions of the "feel" of the ship, how they turned around and photos clearly showing port propulsion and significantly decreased forward progress) they probably discovered and issue with the propulsion system. At this point the chief engineer would be asked to asses the ships capability to either A. Return to home port or B. Make emergency stop in Port Canaveral. The home office would of course prefer returning to home port because the costs and logistical nightmare of transporting 4000 passengers back to their home is a total nightmare scenario (ask CCL about the Liberty and chartering 14 flights out of St. Thomas and flying in comtractors and marine operations and guest services teams)... So at some point RCCL probably realized they will need additional repairs and when the engineering department gave the green light to make it back to NYC, they chose to do so.

 

Being many of these "post incident" issues are decided by teams at the home office, they are not usually very rapid responses and take time and MANY approval levels. Once the ship was in its way back to port, the onboard team was probably spending all day and night evaluating and testing the system. The office was busy organizing parts and contractors to meet the ship Now in port, they are, I am sure, crazy trying to repair the system... any rumors being spread by crew members are just that, "rumors" because, unless there is a more personal,relationship going on, a waiter or bartender would not be getting "briefings" from the senior staff...

 

Now how this was handled from a PR standpoint is another matter... As CCL learned and I believe RCCL, now in the harsh spotlight is learning, pretending this never happened and total radio silence is not the proper way to handle bad press. There will always be cheerleaders and haters... The reality lies somewhere in between....

 

Again, just my observations combined with a bit of industry knowledge... Take as you will... An unfortunate incident for the passengers, RCCL and the cruise and travel industry as a whole...

Aahhh...the voice of reason. Thank you !

I might add my own $0.02 bit ( but in CAD only...;)).

When a ship is ready to sail away from port, it is my understanding a routing chart has to be submitted to the USCG , as a matter of protocol and perhaps procedure as well. Technically, USCG endorses ( or not....) the plans and OK's sailing. While the bridge team led my the Master produces said navigational route chart once they feel it is a safe,practical and legitimate route,USCG sort of holds ''the final OK''.

This tells me that USCG certainly did not find cause to refuse authorization or endorsement of the plans as submitted last saturday ahead of sail away....which in turns sheds a new sets of lights on the theory that the Master ignored the danger signs,or/and sailed into a disaster zone, or/and made decisions based on bad judgement , etc.etc.etc....If HE did that, some other party didn't quite see anything that nefarious.....

just my 2 bits....my opinion only.

 

Cheers

[poz222]

Hi C-legs... Thanks for the compliment, just thought I would interject my personal thoughts and assessment from my view in the cheap seats... Btw... What is the exchange rate on CAD 2 cents these days ;-)

 

That being said, it is my understanding that, No, the Uscg dos not have the authority to approve/disapprove a ship sailing in international water, a foreign flagged ship at that... They do have power to not allow a ship,to sail because of faulty equipment that would endanger passenger lives as well as control the local waters (aka inside the port ) and can stop ships from departing and arriving... But the cruise line and ship command have ultimate control,with the final authority and ultimate responsibility being the Master...

 

One thing I forgot to add in my long winded 2 cents is that the master and senior officers did show enormous skill in navigating the situation and that the crew members onboard seemed to display enormous professionality throughout the journey. And I believe that the guest services were given the company "line to tow" with regards to what info was given to passengers and when it was given and most if not all decisions as it related to guest services was tightly controlled by the home office and hotel,director...

Edited February 12, 2016 by poz222

[volk904]

Interning the talk on the AZ pods. It is clear that 1 is out on the return trip unlike the Freedom and Oasis class which both have 3 AZ pods the Anthem only has 2. Really surprising when you consider they have a history of reliability issues and the Freedom is almost the same tonnage. Not going to say it true but it is possible that it failed in the storm and the Captain only had 1 prop to power the ship in the storm. Good thing the other did not fail.

 

With that said we were on the Freedom last Oct. it had 1AZ Pod running at 50% power and failing. We were late everywhere on our Eastetn Cruise. By November it was so bad they had had to eliminate the long Eastern cruise u till the overhaul in Jan. I think these were bearing issues.

 

The Anthem is new do maybe it is an easy fix. I did read somewhere that the newest AZ pods can be worked on from inside the ship with our drydock. No idea how they do it.

[sjn911]

Thanks again to those who were on the ship with such great comments. So glad all are safely home..airborne on the mattress a couple of times...that says it well..not 45 degrees and over but really rough at times. Great bunch of people it sounds like...great bunch to talk with...that would be the one time I really would have trouble as a solo cruiser...in my cabin with some airborne moments....would want to beg to watch the tv with someone....just a lot to assess and learn from..such is progress and all this travel on so many different types of new ships and all the weather...thanks so much..so glad again all are home safe.

Edited February 12, 2016 by sjn911

[Cabansail]

Here's my pic of the back from the day after the storm clearly showing the right side wasn't working. I also took video which shows much better.

 

 

Actually that photo shows that the Starboard (right) engine is working. It's the Port (left) engine which is not powered.

[Jccruiser28]

So has the coast guard not cleared the ship to sail?

[chengkp75]

Can you set them to freewheeling from inside the ship. I thought Freedom had to do that while docked in Nassau one day. Maybe they just removed the prop. I really don't recall.

 

ETA, just noticed you said they did remove the prop.

 

With a bad bearing, you don't want the shaft to rotate, since this will continue to damage the bearing. So, in that case you lock the shaft, but then you've got a big stationary propeller causing a lot of drag, so you remove the blades, and the hub is no larger in diameter than the pod. If it is a problem with something other than a bearing, you just turn the power off and the water flowing past the propeller from the ship moving will freewheel the propeller, causing less drag.

[chengkp75]

The first cover came off in the storm and dramatically dropped its bits on the pool deck...looks like it was made of fiberglass. By the time I got off the ship this morning, they already had another one waiting to be brought on.

 

If it is sat-TV or Internet, then it wasn't damaged at all as both worked fine through the entire event.

 

I found the internet good until the last day. I am not sure if thats because the satellites signal gets weaker the further away from the equator you go.

 

Usually there are a couple of those "golf balls" up there, so if one goes down they can use the other. And it didn't look like the antenna itself was damaged (hard to see in those photos), it may have just been the protective dome.

Edited February 12, 2016 by chengkp75

[chengkp75]

Another thing to remember about a USCG Port State detention (not allowing a ship to sail due to SOLAS requirements). I hate to use the word "symbolic", but that is what comes to mind at this time in the morning. If you remember the Carnival Triumph, it returned to Mobile after the drydocking to repair the fire damage, and planned on being at the dock to re-stock the ship for two days before embarking passengers. The USCG boarded the first day, as a Port State inspection, and found a problem with the sprinkler system. The ship was officially "detained" from sailing. The problem was fixed the next day, the day before embarkation, so the "detention" had no real effect on the ship's schedule.

 

Here again, in the case of Anthem, they had no plans to sail before Saturday, so the "detention" to date is "non-affecting" (not sure if that's a word, but is actually better than symbolic).

[Biker19]

Apparently, in 4-6 weeks (between FCC, cruise refund and parking refund), I'm going to be rolling in dough.:D

 

The FCC may be earlier than that. While it may take that long for the paper version to show up, in the system it will be available sooner than that. So if you want to use the FCC toward a cruise you can call to see if it's available. The FCC we received on the Quantum inaugural was available within a couple of weeks.

[chengkp75]

So my quick 2 cents aka recap of events as I see them... I do not in any way believe that RCCL deliberately put their ship, crew and passengers in danger... But decisions which affect schedules, ports, staying, going, etc... Are a combined effort and coordination requiring MANY different people, departments and outside vendors (approvals from port, longshoremen, main office etc) and there are logistical as well as financial factors involved. The ultimate decision, regardless of the pressures from all these forces lies with the master of the vessel... That being said, I believe there might be a combined miscalculation of weather, overconfidence of vessel and/or crew and underestimation of conditions especially considering the type and design of the vessel and its performance in extreme conditions.

 

Once the event was over and things calmed down, initial assessments were done with all departments reporting. Initially, the marine ops of RCCL might have directed vessel to continue to port Canaveral. Sometime after that decision, (based on observations and descriptions of the "feel" of the ship, how they turned around and photos clearly showing port propulsion and significantly decreased forward progress) they probably discovered and issue with the propulsion system. At this point the chief engineer would be asked to asses the ships capability to either A. Return to home port or B. Make emergency stop in Port Canaveral. The home office would of course prefer returning to home port because the costs and logistical nightmare of transporting 4000 passengers back to their home is a total nightmare scenario (ask CCL about the Liberty and chartering 14 flights out of St. Thomas and flying in comtractors and marine operations and guest services teams)... So at some point RCCL probably realized they will need additional repairs and when the engineering department gave the green light to make it back to NYC, they chose to do so.

 

Being many of these "post incident" issues are decided by teams at the home office, they are not usually very rapid responses and take time and MANY approval levels. Once the ship was in its way back to port, the onboard team was probably spending all day and night evaluating and testing the system. The office was busy organizing parts and contractors to meet the ship Now in port, they are, I am sure, crazy trying to repair the system... any rumors being spread by crew members are just that, "rumors" because, unless there is a more personal,relationship going on, a waiter or bartender would not be getting "briefings" from the senior staff...

 

Now how this was handled from a PR standpoint is another matter... As CCL learned and I believe RCCL, now in the harsh spotlight is learning, pretending this never happened and total radio silence is not the proper way to handle bad press. There will always be cheerleaders and haters... The reality lies somewhere in between....

 

Again, just my observations combined with a bit of industry knowledge... Take as you will... An unfortunate incident for the passengers, RCCL and the cruise and travel industry as a whole...

 

Well said. And to lay people, and most of the crew that have interactions with guests, there is probably just the pod is "broken" or "not broken", while to the technical staff, there are "degrees" of limited operation.

[Reader0108598]

DUH! Aquahound is a detective. If you watch NCIS........and the lead....is the same level that Aquahound is with CGIS.

 

And yes, he is brilliant at what he does and his reports are spot on. He gives information, much more than feelings.

 

I have read through this thread to this point..which I still have about 7 hours to catch up on.

 

I can tell a story of being caught up in a typhoon in the Sea of Japan. But I won't, because this thread is about those that were actually onboard.

 

When the seasoned Captain, who I know personally, said that this was his worst day at sea.........then I can accept anyone that was onboard to say that they might die, because they have never experienced anything like this in their lives.

 

Please, at this point, let the passengers tell their story. Whether it be good or bad, some of these people have just joined Cruise Critic, so that they can vent. That needs to be allowed.

 

This is my second post on this thread. I will only post, as Paul, and Cheng and a few others, have only answered with facts, while there seems to be more emotion coming from the CC members that were not aboard, as there are CC members that were aboard.

 

Blame can be put anywhere, and please let the ones that were aboard, make their blame be known. Most have no clue to the laws, but they need to vent!

 

Am I repeating myself!!??

 

Welcome home to everyone on the Anthem sailing to nowhere!!

 

Rick

 

Nice post Rick ,some of us have said the same thing but it falls on deaf ears. They are being challenged on every word. Next time something happens I would not be surprised if know one posts.

We will find out with the rest of the world two days later :(

 

Reader

Edited February 12, 2016 by Reader0108598

[shaun07]

It isn't interesting really... hurricane strength winds start at 74mph... there were a few weather forecasts predicting possible "hurricane strength winds".. but 74mph isn't anything crazy. Lots of cruises would go out riding the skirt of a storm. I have not seen anything anywhere that predicted 120-130mph winds (cat 3-4). And if someone can find it.. I would happily eat crow.

 

I was just on a cruise that was experiencing 60-65mph strength winds... some dips here and there.. but still able to enjoy the restaurants.. etc.

 

I just don't understand why anyone would think this company would ever put their ship and thousands of people at risk deliberately. It makes ZERO sense. Even if you thought they didn't care about peoples lives.. the bad PR and lawsuits would cause too many headaches for any company to deal with.:rolleyes:

 

 

I don't think Rccl planned to put everyone in danger. I simply think its an issue of lack of planning . They were just casual and routine about it. A lets just go and see what happens kinda of attitude. How they have handled everything since has been terrible

Edited February 12, 2016 by shaun07