Anthem of the seas is headed back to Cape Liberty now due to a storm

[Thetrail]

I don't know.... I think it's about to time to face the fact that RCCL is definitely responsible for the things that are happening to some extent. They can and should do better. I believe that the paying customers (and it is an expensive vacation!) deserve a true vacation without all of this negative stuff accompanying it. I can tell u personally all of our family and friends think we are crazy for not cancelling.

Tell your family and friends to mind there own business....:rolleyes:

[TravelerThom]

I have been tied up next to Anthem (and other Quantum class ships). They look like a large apartment building. The real question is are they "sea worthy". See a specialist on specs at the the link supplied above: John Williams

Well John Williams had a bunch of specs, but many of them were WRONG.

 

These ships are all 1,000' or more long, but 33% less wide in beam, on average than the previous classes of cruise ships...This higher CG, coupled with a much narrower (by 70', on Anthem)...

Okay, lets look at beam at waterline for various RCI classes:

47.0m (154ft) Oasis

41.4m (136ft) Quantum

38.6m (127ft) Freedom

38.6m (127ft) Voyager

32.2m (106ft) Radiance (Panamax for "old" Panama Canal locks)

Anthem's beam is wider than any other RCI ships, except for Oasis - and it is 18ft (less than 12%) narrower than that class. Norwegian Escape has comparable beam to Anthem, so other than Oasis no cruise ship in the world is wider than Anthem.

...Their maximum heights, generally 200' plus, are limited by bridge clearances (think Verazano or Tampa Bay bridges as examples)...

Ships "generally 200' plus" are not being limited by the Sunshine Skyway at the entrance of Tampa Bay as it is only 180 feet above water, and ships are generally restricted to no more than 174 feet of air draught.

 

Many "facts" on Cruise Law News are questionable, as are these. Don't waste time on such poor "facts".

 

Thom

[dmb0619]

It always amazes me that in the WJ, the only sanitizer is at the entrance. Think about it, even if EVERYONE washed their hands (and we know they don't), merely by touching your lips or messy eating, you could re-infect your hands. Then when they touch the serving spoon again, the spoon is infected.

 

We always bring our own sanitzer to the buffet and clean our hands (not only when entering) but also again after touching the serving utensils. But, RCL doesn't make this easy as the only sanitizer they provide is near the entrance.

 

If you want to avoid Noro and eat in WJ, I suggest you religiously clean your hands AGAIN after touching serving utensils.

[BND]

It always amazes me that in the WJ, the only sanitizer is at the entrance. Think about it, even if EVERYONE washed their hands (and we know they don't), merely by touching your lips or messy eating, you could re-infect your hands. Then when they touch the serving spoon again, the spoon is infected.

 

We always bring our own sanitzer to the buffet and clean our hands (not only when entering) but also again after touching the serving utensils. But, RCL doesn't make this easy as the only sanitizer they provide is near the entrance.

 

If you want to avoid Noro and eat in WJ, I suggest you religiously clean your hands AGAIN after touching serving utensils.

 

The gel hand sanitizer doesn't kill noro virus.

[heresjohnnytonight]

I am on the Anthem right now and would prefer it if they sailed somewhere safe and gave us a few extra days at sea. It is very inconvenient for me for the cruise to be cut short. I'm having work done at my house and can't go home until 3/4/16. I'm not complaining though. This has been an AMAZING cruise. I hope they offer a discount on the next one.

 

 

I know what you mean,I just told my husband if we came back to port I would prefer it if they just let us stay onboard till the vacation is over!

[Nana57]

I was on a cruise when a man was licking his fingers and eating as he was serving himself. I told him that's disgusting. He then pushed me. I told him don't you push me! He then threw down the serving spoon and walked away. Some people basically have no manners.

[bboop51]

I had family that just sailed NCL and they were charged state tax for drinks on their drink packages while in port in FL.

 

Yes we are just on NCL. We had the beverage package and still were charged tax for every drink ordered while in port in NY and Florida.

[Letsgo 2]

Yes we are just on NCL. We had the beverage package and still were charged tax for every drink ordered while in port in NY and Florida.

 

Yes NCL you do pay tax while in a US Port on your drinks

but it's cents, and how many can you possibly drink

in 8 hours? so let's say you pay $ 20 for a whole

day, and that's a lot of drinks lol.

I gladly pay that on NCL then what passengers on

the Anthem went through and are going through

right now!

[RJB]

Tell your family and friends to mind there own business....:rolleyes:

Maybe you should mind your own business!!!! :confused::confused:

[lazeyey]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread like I wanted to. I also got norovirus ans my 18 month old got hand mouth and foot disease. I wash my hands all the time and use hand sanitizer.

 

The one thing that bothers me is that when I saw people giving staff members excuses as to why they can't wash their hands before entering the windjammer, the staff member told me there's nothing she can do and said she can't 'make' passengers wash their hands all the time. Now this one comment (out of many) was made the day before I got noro. Now there are security guards everywhere at the windjammer entrenches. I told medical that story, not sure if that's the reason for the security guards or not.

[OBX-Cruisers]

Sanitizers do not kill NORO. You must wash your hands with soap and hot water for at least 20 sec.

 

Washing hands thoroughly as you suggest is extremely important as the hand sanitizer they use on ship is typically Purell which most likely does very little for Norovirus on unwashed hands according to the internet refs.

 

My brief internet research showed that there ARE at least 3 hand sanitizers that DO KILL Norovirus. Maybe the cruise lines should also do the same quick research and find out if they are using effective or ineffective hand sanitizers. I now realize that before our next cruise I will invest a few bucks into these more effective sanitizers and use them instead of that sticky Purell junk the cruise lines are stuck on.

 

Here is a link for effective hand sanitizers for those interested:

 

http://www.stopthestomachflu.com/Home/which-hand-sanitizers-kill-stomach-flu-viruses

Edited March 2, 2016 by OBX-Cruisers

[TravelingAPor]

Thanks for the link.

I was on the NCL Breakaway recently and there were ship employees, at the entrances OF THE BUFFET and they squirted our hand, with sanitizer, before we went into the buffet aria. The ship also holds about 5,000 people. We were happy to let them squirt our hands.

[cruisekmc]

No. That is the problem of the lack of accurate communication.

 

Senior management does not discuss the number.

 

According to staff, we are at highest level of sanitation due to

 

the number of cases.

 

We are hearing and seeing the illness around the ship.

 

 

 

Just be honest about the severity of the outbreak.

 

 

Try turning on your TV the Captain and Abe have been constantly giving updates.

[foxgoodrich]

I can tell u personally all of our family and friends think we are crazy for not cancelling.

 

Maybe your family and friends haven't been keeping up with the most recently released facts. For example, the Coast Guard/NTSB report on the Captain's actions during the storm on the 2/6/16 cruise just came out a couple of days ago. The report commended the actions of Captain Claus Andersen during the storm. He'll be returning to the ship tomorrow.

 

And the CDC has Anthem's Norovirus report online now for the current cruise. You can look at it just like I did. So can your family and friends.

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2016/february21_anthem_of_seas.htm

141 people (125 passengers and 16 crew) have become ill with Norovirus on this cruise. (There are approx. 6000 total people aboard.) The CDC report lists all the sanitizing procedures and VSP protocols that are in place right now aboard Anthem to control the outbreak.

 

When a ship hits a storm that's much worse than expected, and the Captain does everything within his power to bring the ship and passengers to safety, only 4 people out of 6000 suffered minor injuries, and he is praised by the US Coast Guard and the NTSB for his actions, most people would look at that as a commendable victory. When the paying customers bring Noro aboard, and Royal Caribbean (just like ANY cruise line) follows proper sanitizing procedures to contain the outbreak, most people would look at that as an appropriate response to a problem.

 

If your family and friends see things differently despite the data, I guess you can choose to defy them and go on your cruise anyway, no matter what they urge you to do, and suffer their conclusion that you are crazy. Or you can accede to their advice, cancel your cruise, and stay home. Good luck with your decision, and if you decide to go ahead and defy their criticism and take your cruise, I hope it's an absolutely fantastic cruise!:)

Judy

Edited March 2, 2016 by foxgoodrich
grammatical error

[GolfMom321]

I'm glad Anthem has sinks outside the Windjammer. Is this just Anthem, or all Quantum class ships?

 

Do they also have lotion? Some people won't wash their hands because they get so dry. The last few cruises, I brought a huge bottle of moisturizer for the room, and a few small tubes for carrying it around.

 

I use Zylast lotion--it's good against Noro and other viruses and bacteria, and it doesn't dry out your hands. Won't get on a ship without a little bottle in my pocket!

 

At least now he knows the USCG and NTSB report praised his actions on the 2/6 cruise. Maybe he'll catch a break this week since they have an extra day without passengers to do all that sanitizing. Hoping the next cruise will be virus free and smooth sailing!!

Judy

 

I'm on this next cruise, and I am SO happy that Captain Claus will be with us! I second the hope for virus free and smooth sailing...

[Newatt]

It always amazes me that in the WJ, the only sanitizer is at the entrance. Think about it, even if EVERYONE washed their hands (and we know they don't), merely by touching your lips or messy eating, you could re-infect your hands. Then when they touch the serving spoon again, the spoon is infected.

 

We always bring our own sanitzer to the buffet and clean our hands (not only when entering) but also again after touching the serving utensils. But, RCL doesn't make this easy as the only sanitizer they provide is near the entrance.

 

If you want to avoid Noro and eat in WJ, I suggest you religiously clean your hands AGAIN after touching serving utensils.

 

I agree. I also suggest that you grab an extra napkin and use it as a mini table cloth. They don't sterilize the tables.

[Merion_Mom]

Maybe your family and friends haven't been keeping up with the most recently released facts. For example, the Coast Guard/NTSB report on the Captain's actions during the storm on the 2/6/16 cruise just came out a couple of days ago. The report commended the actions of Captain Claus Andersen during the storm. He'll be returning to the ship tomorrow.

 

And the CDC has Anthem's Norovirus report online now for the current cruise. You can look at it just like I did. So can your family and friends.

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2016/february21_anthem_of_seas.htm

141 people (125 passengers and 16 crew) have become ill with Norovirus on this cruise. (There are approx. 6000 total people aboard.) The CDC report lists all the sanitizing procedures and VSP protocols that are in place right now aboard Anthem to control the outbreak.

 

When a ship hits a storm that's much worse than expected, and the Captain does everything within his power to bring the ship and passengers to safety, only 4 people out of 6000 suffered minor injuries, and he is praised by the US Coast Guard and the NTSB for his actions, most people would look at that as a commendable victory. When the paying customers bring Noro aboard, and Royal Caribbean (just like ANY cruise line) follows proper sanitizing procedures to contain the outbreak, most people would look at that as an appropriate response to a problem.

 

If your family and friends see things differently despite the data, I guess you can choose to defy them and go on your cruise anyway, no matter what they urge you to do, and suffer their conclusion that you are crazy. Or you can accede to their advice, cancel your cruise, and stay home. Good luck with your decision, and if you decide to go ahead and defy their criticism and take your cruise, I hope it's an absolutely fantastic cruise!:)

Judy

 

[e2011]

And I'm a merchant ship's officer as well, and have worked cruise ships, and I don't see any real problem with cruising from the NE in winter, as long as the guests know that it won't be sunny Caribbean weather.

 

Well you would know more than I but so far this year its not working out too well for Royal Caribbean.

[chengkp75]

Washing hands thoroughly as you suggest is extremely important as the hand sanitizer they use on ship is typically Purell which most likely does very little for Norovirus on unwashed hands according to the internet refs.

 

My brief internet research showed that there ARE at least 3 hand sanitizers that DO KILL Norovirus. Maybe the cruise lines should also do the same quick research and find out if they are using effective or ineffective hand sanitizers. I now realize that before our next cruise I will invest a few bucks into these more effective sanitizers and use them instead of that sticky Purell junk the cruise lines are stuck on.

 

Here is a link for effective hand sanitizers for those interested:

 

http://www.stopthestomachflu.com/Home/which-hand-sanitizers-kill-stomach-flu-viruses

 

I use Zylast lotion--it's good against Noro and other viruses and bacteria, and it doesn't dry out your hands. Won't get on a ship without a little bottle in my pocket!

 

 

 

I'm on this next cruise, and I am SO happy that Captain Claus will be with us! I second the hope for virus free and smooth sailing...

 

It surprises me that when someone does a "quick google search" for an agent effective against an infectious disease, that google does not turn up anything from the most prestigious epidemiologists around, the CDC, and no one thinks this is strange. You have to go to manufacturers websites and claims like this link above to find products that claim to be effective against noro. I looked at her site just now, remembered it from a year or so ago, and remembered that 90% of her "research" dealt with bacteria

and not viruses, but she claimed that if a product worked to reduce bacteria, it should have a similar result for viruses.

 

If all these products were as effective against noro as the manufacturers claim, they would have jumped through hoops to get on the EPA's Registered Hospital Disinfectants Against Norovirus, in order to be able to claim indisputed effectiveness. If you search the list, there is one "wipe" product, and no sanitizers. This list has just had the name changed to include "hospital disinfectants" in place of "effective agents". The EPA does not have a similar list for registered consumer products. This list was also reduced by about 60% a couple of years ago, meaning many products lost their claims to be effective.

 

http://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-g-epa-registered-hospital-disinfectants-effective-against-norovirus

[foxgoodrich]

 

And so are you.;) Oh Carol...we really do need to cruise together again. And have a drink or two...or three...and chat :D. We're on Liberty out of Galveston on May 8. We're driving. We can pick you up at the airport...I'll officially induct you into the Sisterhood of the Swizzlestick and present you the official earrings...how can you resist that?:)

Judy

[jstewie23]

It surprises me that when someone does a "quick google search" for an agent effective against an infectious disease, that google does not turn up anything from the most prestigious epidemiologists around, the CDC, and no one thinks this is strange. You have to go to manufacturers websites and claims like this link above to find products that claim to be effective against noro. I looked at her site just now, remembered it from a year or so ago, and remembered that 90% of her "research" dealt with bacteria

and not viruses, but she claimed that if a product worked to reduce bacteria, it should have a similar result for viruses.

 

If all these products were as effective against noro as the manufacturers claim, they would have jumped through hoops to get on the EPA's Registered Hospital Disinfectants Against Norovirus, in order to be able to claim indisputed effectiveness. If you search the list, there is one "wipe" product, and no sanitizers. This list has just had the name changed to include "hospital disinfectants" in place of "effective agents". The EPA does not have a similar list for registered consumer products. This list was also reduced by about 60% a couple of years ago, meaning many products lost their claims to be effective.

 

http://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-g-epa-registered-hospital-disinfectants-effective-against-norovirus

 

So can your average consumer buy any of these on this list? What can we get to help take additional precautions (besides washing hands)?

[OBX-Cruisers]

It surprises me that when someone does a "quick google search" for an agent effective against an infectious disease, that google does not turn up anything from the most prestigious epidemiologists around, the CDC, and no one thinks this is strange. You have to go to manufacturers websites and claims like this link above to find products that claim to be effective against noro. I looked at her site just now, remembered it from a year or so ago, and remembered that 90% of her "research" dealt with bacteria

and not viruses, but she claimed that if a product worked to reduce bacteria, it should have a similar result for viruses.

 

If all these products were as effective against noro as the manufacturers claim, they would have jumped through hoops to get on the EPA's Registered Hospital Disinfectants Against Norovirus, in order to be able to claim indisputed effectiveness. If you search the list, there is one "wipe" product, and no sanitizers. This list has just had the name changed to include "hospital disinfectants" in place of "effective agents". The EPA does not have a similar list for registered consumer products. This list was also reduced by about 60% a couple of years ago, meaning many products lost their claims to be effective.

 

http://www.epa.gov/pesticide-registration/list-g-epa-registered-hospital-disinfectants-effective-against-norovirus

 

Well I am glad to surprise you. I spent 15 yrs of my toxicology career helping companies get EPA registrations for various pesticides but paqrticularly antimicrobial agents. Efficacy testing is SPECIFICALLY required for ALL antimicrobial products that claim to kill bacteria, fungi , viruses and other infectious organisms.

Your EPA link is appreciated but most people are not familiar with EPA registrations and I posted a more user friendly list that also listed WHERE to buy some of these products.

 

Thank you for your addition which are for ACTIVE INGREDIENTS registered with EPA for use as hard surface sanitizers/disinfectants and not for hand sanitation per se. Continue to be surprised every day that you may actually meet people who know more than you do.

 

BTW: "Regulation of Hand Sanitizers by FDA. Hand sanitizers are regulated in the USA by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as drugs."

https://www.google.com/search?q=Which+agency+regulates+hand+sanitizers&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Edited March 2, 2016 by OBX-Cruisers

[markeb]

Well I am glad to surprise you. I spent 15 yrs of my toxicology career helping companies get EPA registrations for various pesticides but paqrticularly antimicrobial agents. Efficacy testing is SPECIFICALLY required for ALL antimicrobial products that claim to kill bacteria, fungi , viruses and other infectious organisms.

Your EPA link is appreciated but most people are not familiar with EPA registrations and I posted a more user friendly list that also listed WHERE to buy some of these products.

H

Thank you for your addition which are for ACTIVE INGREDIENTS registered with EPA for use as hard surface sanitizers/disinfectants and not for hand sanitation per se. Continue to be surprised every day that you may actually meet people who know more than you do.

 

BTW: "Regulation of Hand Sanitizers by FDA. Hand sanitizers are regulated in the USA by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as drugs."

https://www.google.com/search?q=Which+agency+regulates+hand+sanitizers&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

Actually, as I suspect you know, it's far more complicated than that. Alcohol based sanitizer are regulated by the FDA as "Generally Regarded As Safe and Effective", or GRASE, based on data that they lower the overall microbial load on the skin.

 

Zylast, in particular, received an FDA warning letter last year for marketing the lotion as specifically reducing the risk of norovirus, which would make it a "drug". You are quite correct (sorry Chief) that products applied to the skin are regulated by the FDA, not EPA. But that doesn't necessarily make them a "drug" under the Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act.

 

Although, I think you'll agree that if the active ingredient isn't effective on a solid surface, it's unlikely to be effective on skin. Conversely, if it's effective on a solid surface, it could still be toxic to skin.

 

BTW, pretty much everything on your link that claims to reduce the risk of noro would require an NDA as a drug. It doesn't sound like any of them have one.

Edited March 2, 2016 by markeb

[bobbie0253]

 

Here is a link for effective hand sanitizers for those interested:

 

http://www.stopthestomachflu.com/Home/which-hand-sanitizers-kill-stomach-flu-viruses

I wish any of these could be ordered with an express shipping. We leave Friday and none of them look elidgeable for overnight shipping :(

[robtulipe]

I wish any of these could be ordered with an express shipping. We leave Friday and none of them look elidgeable for overnight shipping :(

 

The best and most effective method not to get sick onboard is still to wash your hands well with soap followed by rinsing with plenty of water to wash the germs, bacteria and viruses down the drain. The following, which I posted on our Anthem after yours roll call, is what we are planning to do in the WJ Marketplace where IMO is one of the worst areas to catch something like Norovirus.

Also one should first apply the liquid soap to their hands and rub their hands together to spread it over all of their hand's surface before rinsing them well with water. I see a lots of folks apply the soap and immediately start rinsing while rubbing their hands which isn't as effective. The idea is to get the soap which is a surfactant (surface active agent) in contact with what is to be removed physically and it will emulsify or suspend that material in the water so it can be easily carried away by the rinse water.

 

Actually on Quantum class ships with their WJ entry wash stations one could easily get their food and then wash their hands again before eating. Just ensure you only hold your plate with one hand only and serve yourself with the other hand in order not to contaminate the plate by changing hands. Set your plate down at your table and wash your hands a second time. Also use your napkin or plate to place your cutlery on.

Edited March 2, 2016 by robtulipe