Riviera on Code Red again

[hiccups]

For the three of us who were on the cruise Mar 13-20 and became ill Sunday evening after departing the ship, does anyone know what the incubation period is before symptoms present for Noro Virus? I find it alarming that three on CC became ill at the same time and I query how many more became ill Sunday evening. I don't believe in my case it is food poisoning. In terms of telling Oceania about becoming ill, I am afraid it would fall on deaf ears.

 

Any type of gastro is 24-48 hours, and most types of food-borne illnesses can take at least that long. My sister and BIL had e coli many years ago and it took several days to present itself--they were in the hospital for a week.

 

My husband ate lunch in Waves on Saturday, and we ate in the MDR Saturday evening (also Friday). I can't recall if he ate breakfast, but if he did, it was most likely in the Terrace Café.

 

We ate in Jacques on Thursday, and my husband had the sea bass salad, which comes with a poached egg. Within a couple hours after dinner he got very sick to his stomach and vomited a couple times. However, we then remembered a few years ago he ate an appetizer at a steakhouse in Chicago that was topped with a poached egg, and he got ill after eating that. Over-easy eggs for breakfast, he can handle, but apparently not poached eggs, or at least when mixed with something else!

Edited March 23, 2016 by hiccups

[RJB]

Looks like it can be 12-48 hrs

http://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/about/symptoms.html

 

We left the Marina mid afternoon & flew home from Sydney N.S. to YYZ

I thought I had food poisoning from a sandwich I had at YHZ

the nasties struck me about 12-18 hrs after leaving the ship

They just started the extra cleaning the day we left for other medical reasons

It took me 2 days to get over it ...DH was fine withing hours of his attack

 

 

Riveira is now at over 4 %

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/outbreak/2016/march20_oceania_riviera.htm

0 crew sick out of 776. Got to be kidding. Someone is fudging the numbers. Just can not be.

[GeezerCouple]

0 crew sick out of 776. Got to be kidding. Someone is fudging the numbers. Just can not be.

 

Yes, beyond bizarre.

 

I'm wondering if several of those (as many as possible) who got off the *same* cruise and got sick within, say, 2-3 days called the CDC to report "what happened soon after leaving the ship", if anyone there would pay attention.

There is a second pattern they are not seeing.

Or is there an online way to report, but to the same group that monitors ships?

 

And really... is it possible there is a "Typhoid Mary or Marvin" of sorts who is just carrying this with no symptoms?

I'm very curious what they'd find if they tested ALL of the crew...

 

Something is clearly "off".

 

We feel increasingly fortunate that our holiday cruise was, er, uneventful.

[RJB]

Yes, beyond bizarre.

 

I'm wondering if several of those (as many as possible) who got off the *same* cruise and got sick within, say, 2-3 days called the CDC to report "what happened soon after leaving the ship", if anyone there would pay attention.

There is a second pattern they are not seeing.

Or is there an online way to report, but to the same group that monitors ships?

 

And really... is it possible there is a "Typhoid Mary or Marvin" of sorts who is just carrying this with no symptoms?

I'm very curious what they'd find if they tested ALL of the crew...

 

Something is clearly "off".

 

We feel increasingly fortunate that our holiday cruise was, er, uneventful.

We were not quite as fortunate as our 2/12 cruise came back 2 days early and we had to live with the cleaning mess for about 4 days. Lucky we were not sick, but not a lot of fun on the ship. On that cruise more that 10% passengers sick and less that 1 half of 1% of the crew. Looks like they are trying to fool someone. The CDC or future cruisers? Are they afraid to test the crew? Lets do it find out.

Edited March 23, 2016 by RJB

[Wren3]

Taking into account the incubation period and that Riviera is now code red with 4% affected, the common denominator is staff and crew because unless you stayed on board for another cruise those passengers who were ill or about to become ill on Sunday or Monday would have departed the ship leaving behind the crew. So who makes up the 4% affected? There must be crew in that percentage.

[LHT28]

another conspiracy theory

since some Floridians are reporting a G.I. outbreak in the area what about the taxi drivers, porters, check in staff that are touching your documents

 

There are probably people on a B2B that may have stayed on the ship also

 

I am almost afraid to go to Miami next week :eek:

 

I am sure the crew are fed up with all the extra cleaning

why would they NOT report to the medical centre if they were ill ...they would not have to clean then

[RJB]

another conspiracy theory

since some Floridians are reporting a G.I. outbreak in the area what about the taxi drivers, porters, check in staff that are touching your documents

 

There are probably people on a B2B that may have stayed on the ship also

 

I am almost afraid to go to Miami next week :eek:

 

I am sure the crew are fed up with all the extra cleaning

why would they NOT report to the medical centre if they were ill ...they would not have to clean then

Close to 800 crew. Could be a few B2B. No taxi drivers, porters, check in staff touch my documents, since I don't have any. Good try at spinning this back to other people rather than the ones who need to be tested. Do it and lets see how that turns out.

[PaulMCO]

My pet worry in all rooms whether hotel or cruise ship is who washes the drinking glasses in the rooms? I know some hotels bring clean glasses every day wrapped in paper but, as far as I have seen, most are washed by the room attendants. I ALWAYS take wipes for the sole purpose of cleaning the glasses.

 

I also favour the alcohol prevention :D.

 

Being a "world traveler" for most of my life (104 countries and 5+ million mile). I never trust hotel glasses unless they are plastic or paper. Typical grab several paper from the lounge or coffee bar in most hotels. Knock on wood only one case of Noro or food poisoning on the road in 30 years (and that was an extended stay in Morocco). And when the say don't drink the water or eat salads -- believe it. Maybe it is the beer and alcohol that keeps the stomach pure :D

Edited March 23, 2016 by PaulMCO

[LHT28]

Close to 800 crew. Could be a few B2B. No taxi drivers, porters, check in staff touch my documents, since I don't have any. Good try at spinning this back to other people rather than the ones who need to be tested. Do it and lets see how that turns out.

Well you may drive to the port, carry your own luggage onboard & not need to show your passport or get a room key from the check in staff but how many people take a taxi to the port & does the driver wipe down the inside of the taxi between passengers with disinfectant ?

The porters take my bags to the bins

We also have to hand our passports & credit card to check in plus receive our room key

any of those people can be carriers

What about hotels that people stay in before or after the cruises

We had people from the Infected Maasdam at the hotel some were sick at the time but did not stop them from going out & about or hitting the breakfast buffet with unsuspecting people

 

It can be anyone since you really do not look sick until you are sick

 

How do they test people before they are sick??

Edited March 23, 2016 by LHT28

[RJB]

Well you may drive to the port, carry your own luggage onboard & not need to show your passport or get a room key from the check in staff but how many people take a taxi to the port & does the driver wipe down the inside of the taxi between passengers with disinfectant ?

The porters take my bags to the bins

We also have to hand our passports & credit card to check in plus receive our room key

any of those people can be carriers

What about hotels that people stay in before or after the cruises

We had people from the Infected Maasdam at the hotel some were sick at the time but did not stop them from going out & about or hitting the breakfast buffet with unsuspecting people

 

It can be anyone since you really do not look sick until you are sick

 

How do they test people before they are sick??

A lot of good questions that we do not know the answer to. I am just saying we should not discount the major pool of people who stay on the ship from cruise to cruise. Any of these other things could be the cause of the noro, but we do not know.

[GeezerCouple]

Well you may drive to the port, carry your own luggage onboard & not need to show your passport or get a room key from the check in staff but how many people take a taxi to the port & does the driver wipe down the inside of the taxi between passengers with disinfectant ?

The porters take my bags to the bins

We also have to hand our passports & credit card to check in plus receive our room key

any of those people can be carriers

It can be anyone since you really do not look sick until you are sick

 

How do they test people before they are sick??

 

I agree that there are a variety of possible contamination sources, including even at hotels or airports, from all of the passengers departing.

(I got Noro - or some GI bug that wasn't tested, unfortunately - in Italy last spring. Timing suggests I got it at the Venice hotel, but I got sick early in the wee hours of the first night in Milan. And ended up in the hospital. We weren't on a cruise that time, but there probably were others at our Venice hotel who were off various cruise ships. Or it could have been others on the train, with door handles, seat backs, handrails... who knows.)

 

However, it does seem given the weird pattern here that *someone* could decide to test all (yes, *all*) of the crew, from the deck scrubbers to the Captain.

I'm guessing *someone* is a silent carrier of that bug.

Or perhaps there are several who are among the small percentage who are asymptomatic when "having the virus", and they just keep passing it back and forth, totally unaware.

 

Otherwise, why is this difficulty continuing over and over, on and off, on this ship, but not on other ships. All of the other "contagion" factors would be similar on a large number of other cruise ships, including those sharing ports, and thus passengers with bus door handles to hotel buffet handles, etc. But it doesn't seem to KEEP coming back like this elsewhere.

(Or is it just hidden better!??)

[eroller]

I was also on the March 13th cruise that disembarked Sunday. Happy to report no illness what so ever for myself or my husband, and to my knowledge none of the people I was traveling with. The ship was sparkling clean, food excellent, and most of the staff very friendly and in good spirits.

 

Public bathrooms were also spotless, and I loved the linen hand towels provided. Toilets were self flushing and faucets touch-less. In addition there are little paper towel dispensers by the door to use when touching the door handle to exit. Hand sanitizers were located EVERYWHERE although no one forced you to use them like on some ships. That sanitizer doesn't kill noro anyway. Soap and warm water is the way to go. None the less I used the sanitzer often and hopefully it helped in making my cruise a healthy one.

 

I feel every precaution was taken and in no way did I feel RIVIERA was a "sick ship". Quite the contrary actually.

 

Unfortunately this is peak noro season and several ships have been hit lately. The ship could be totally disinfected but it only takes one to get the ball rolling again. The latest CDC report for the current cruise shows 52 passengers out of 1204 infected and 0 crew out of 776. I can only guess that one or more passengers brought on the illness, perhaps without even knowing since the symptoms don't appear right away. The crew is obviously doing something right and I assume well trained especially by now. They remain healthy even while having to serve and care for sick passengers.

 

I'll also mention that noro happens all over and all the time. Restaurants, hotels, airplanes, schools, nursing homes, etc. You generally don't hear about it because for the most part people are coming and going from those places all the time. A cruise ship is unique in that 1000+ people spend a week or more in the same location, so much easier to track and report. One exception is a recent headline regarding a Chipotle Grill in Massachusetts. It made headlines because the restaurant was shutdown and sanitized because one or more employees called out sick with noro-like symptoms and tested positive for the virus. Quite unusual but certainly illustrates that it happens everywhere.

 

I'm guessing once noro-season is over RIVIERA will be happily cruising along with no issues. Unfortunately she has had a streak of bad luck, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate to sail on her tomorrow if someone would like to offer me their ticket!

[LHT28]

Did you ever find out about the tape on your neighbour's cabin door??

 

Curious minds want to know :D

 

Glad you had a good trip

 

Lyn

[eroller]

Did you ever find out about the tape on your neighbour's cabin door??

 

Curious minds want to know :D

 

Glad you had a good trip

 

Lyn

 

 

I did not, but I assume they were quarantined. I was going to ask them when I overheard them on their balcony chatting but I thought it might be considered rude. A few days before the end of the cruise all the tape was removed, and the door had to be scrubbed to get all the tape residue off. There was no sign of the tape when they were finished. I guess they were cleared by the doctor? This may not have been noro and something else entirely, as generally I don't think they tape you into your cabin when you have noro, unless it's a new procedure. At least I've never seen it on any other cruise line and I've sailed a lot of cruise lines. I was a little concerned that my cabin stewardess (who was wonderful) would be cleaning that cabin then mine, but as I mentioned I had no issues.

 

I'll probably write a little review shortly. Overall I was impressed with Oceania but there were a couple small things that could stand improvement. I usually take hundreds of photos but can you believe my iPhone camera stopped focusing, then the same thing happened to my husbands! What are the odds? Turns out both our iPhone's (6 Plus) were from a batch manufactured with a possible camera defect. Apple has since replaced the camera at no charge, but rather amazing both cameras decided to die at almost the same time.

Edited March 23, 2016 by eroller

[LHT28]

I did not, but I assume they were quarantined. I was going to ask them when I overheard them on their balcony chatting but I thought it might be considered rude. A few days before the end of the cruise all the tape was removed, and the door had to be scrubbed to get all the tape residue off. There was no sign of the tape when they were finished. I guess they were cleared by the doctor? This may not have been noro and something else entirely, as generally I don't think they tape you into your cabin when you have noro, unless it's a new procedure. At least I've never seen it on any other cruise line and I've sailed a lot of cruise lines. I was a little concerned that my cabin stewardess (who was wonderful) would be cleaning that cabin then mine, but as I mentioned I had no issues.

.

Thanks for the report

Seems odd they would put tape on the door but I guess that way the crew could tell if they went out when they were not supposed to

people mentioned on the other cruise that they took people cards away from them & you had to scan your card to get into the dining venues

Maybe the tape was added precaution

When we left Marina just as the Noro started they had special team that cleaned the infected cabins

I would not want the room steward(ess) in mine after cleaning an infected cabin

 

Too bad on the phones ..that was bad timing for sure

 

lyn

[sammiedawg]

Mike, I look forward to your trip report and I'm glad that you are enjoying yourselves.

 

It has been a long time since my microbiology courses but basically the world is a Petrie dish. As students in microbiology 101 we cultured lots of random inanimate surfaces and disease causing organisms are everywhere.

 

It is impossible to pinpoint sources of GI symptoms unless full cultures and full epidemiology studies are conducted.

We have to keep everything in perspective and not get too carried away into the world of the "worried well".

 

Every ten days or so 1000 new passengers come on board the O ships. Most probably arrived by plane, train, taxi and many patronized hotels or restaurants. Everyone passed through the cruise terminal and probably held the handrail or pushed elevator buttons. Everyone handed their passports, drivers licenses to other human beings for identification. Each and every interaction has potential to come in contact with disease causing microorganisms.

The same thing happens in reverse when we disembark and head home.

During the cruise most passengers go into the ports and come in contact with different inanimate surfaces and a new set of humans. Not to mention many of us eat and drink while in port.

Crew members come and go, there is no constant crew in place on any ship. I do not understand why some of us continue to point fingers at crew members.

[SellaVee]

Is it possible that some of the crew now have immunity to the Noro virus? I don't know whether it's like chickenpox (gives you immunity) or seasonal flu (virus changes year on year).

 

Here's another theory related to immunity. Is it possible that with all the wiping and sanitising we're losing the ability to tolerate "little bits of dirt"? I'm not explaining this very well but people used to say "a little bit of dirt never did anyone any harm". It's like building up immunity in small doses.

 

Having said that, toilet hygiene is another matter. I'm the woman you see using her elbows to open restroom doors or, failing that, the hem of her jacket. I try never to touch a handle after I've washed my hands. All the Oceania ships I've been on have had tissue dispensers and bins by the restroom doors.

 

I also always wash glasses and teacups in hotel rooms before I use them. And I'm big on hand sanitiser, but I'm not averse to eating a slightly fizzy yoghurt.

[LHT28]

Is it possible that some of the crew now have immunity to the Noro virus? I don't know whether it's like chickenpox (gives you immunity) or seasonal flu (virus changes year on year).

 

Here's another theory related to immunity. Is it possible that with all the wiping and sanitising we're losing the ability to tolerate "little bits of dirt"? I'm not explaining this very well but people used to say "a little bit of dirt never did anyone any harm". It's like building up immunity in small doses.

 

it is possible the virus is becoming immune to the cleaners being used

Here is everything you need to know on Noro & things you never thought you would need to know ;)

http://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/about/index.html

 

Just like the flu there are different strains

[bitob]

I wonder if it is in the ductwork or someplace where it is not cleaned.

[janecambridge]

Food,water...these can be contaminated especially shellfish from contaminated seas .They may not be being prepared properly if the crew are tired...

Do the sailings on alert have the same disembarkation ports?

[MVPinBoynton]

Thanks for the report

Seems odd they would put tape on the door but I guess that way the crew could tell if they went out when they were not supposed to

people mentioned on the other cruise that they took people cards away from them & you had to scan your card to get into the dining venues

Maybe the tape was added precaution

When we left Marina just as the Noro started they had special team that cleaned the infected cabins

I would not want the room steward(ess) in mine after cleaning an infected cabin

 

Too bad on the phones ..that was bad timing for sure

 

lyn

The tape is on the quarantined doors to make sure people don't leave their rooms. They take the tape off to bring food and to clean, so there are lots of tape marks.

[RJB]

The tape is on the quarantined doors to make sure people don't leave their rooms. They take the tape off to bring food and to clean, so there are lots of tape marks.

I think I read a month or two ago that Noro seems mostly to go away in the summer. Anyone with that info? Be great if it does. Everyone needs a break, especially the crew. :):):)

[MVPinBoynton]

I think I read a month or two ago that Noro seems mostly to go away in the summer. Anyone with that info? Be great if it does. Everyone needs a break, especially the crew. :):):)

 

The crew definitely needs a break. They look so tired but keep smiling. The extra precautions are a minor inconvenience to me; but very bad for the crew.

[GeezerCouple]

The crew definitely needs a break. They look so tired but keep smiling. The extra precautions are a minor inconvenience to me; but very bad for the crew.

 

Presumably during non-medical-issues, the crew is not "underworked", and this has been continuing (it's not just an odd day every few months), does Oceania ever bring on *extra* cleaning staff for all of that *extra* cleaning?

That way, the regular crew would be able to attend normally to their normal duties.

(I'm not referring to extra cleaning between cruises.)

[sammiedawg]

The crew definitely needs a break. They look so tired but keep smiling. The extra precautions are a minor inconvenience to me; but very bad for the crew.

 

Well said.